Interesting report on the poor

[ducklite]

Did you grow up "homeless"? If not, then you probably were shown a different mindset than hopeless poverty, so you had a helping hand from your parents that you used to get educated and out of poverty. You did a great job at it, but not all learn that lesson learned by most children of the non-poor.

I grew up in a household that had a lower middle-class income, although my dad had several lay-offs, during which times we lived on beans on toast. My parents came close (within days) to foreclosure a couple of times, so I did not grow up in an affluent home by any means.

My parents did not pay for a dime of my college education (which I did nto finish for a multitude of reasons, some economic, some child care related, and some personal. I moved out when I was 18, and my mother did not provide childcare for me when I was a single parent. I made my way in life, which I truly believe anyone who has the DESIRE to do can do. I'm not suggesting that everyone who is poor will own a home in Beverly Hills, but I do believe that they do have the ability to live a life with decent housing and a moderate income, if they really commit to doing so.

Anne

 

[DisneyGirl4188]

Nothing for nothing but it seems she could have worked a night shift. My dad had crazy hours and my mom worked nights so someone was always home with the kids. We have family friends who do the same thing, dad lost his job due to the company closing and is taking classes during the day under a state grant for a new career and mom works as a night auditor. I know a single mom who lives with her parents, she puts her kids to bed and then heads off to tend bar from 9:00pm until 4:00am, and is home to get them off to school. With the low unemployment rates in much of this country these days, there ARE jobs to be had, they might not be the best paying or the most glamorous, but they are there. Heck, a lot of McDonald's are paying $15/hour for opening and closing shifts!

People with low incomes and catastrophic medical bills are eligible for a variety of medical assistance programs, he needs to talk to the billing department at the hopital to inquire.

Anne

She did work part time for most of the time he was working. She did switch to full time when she could but it wasn't always possible. She couldn't work nights because she still had a young child to watch during the day.

Unfortunately, no place around here is paying $15.00 an hour. McDonalds pays $6.10.

They don't qualify for medical assistance, but they are on payment plans. It has saved them from bankruptcy.

There are some other issues that happened here, that I didn't want to include (it doesn't change their situation for the better, worse actually).

My point with the story was that things do happen. It isn't fair for someone to say that no one has an excuse to be poor. Sometimes, no matter how hard you work you will still be poor.

 

[ducklite]

My point with the story was that things do happen. It isn't fair for someone to say that no one has an excuse to be poor. Sometimes, no matter how hard you work you will still be poor.

I never said there was no excuse to find yourself poor. What is inexcusable to settle on that as your lot in life and not try to improve your situation.

Anne

 

[brunette8706]

I never said there was no excuse to find yourself poor. What is inexcusable to settle on that as your lot in life and not try to improve your situation.

Anne

*******

I agree with your concept and logic. There are plenty of ways to improve the situation you are in when you are indeed at poverty levels. I for one can vouch for that. My mother was on foodstamps when we were kids. My dad left us and we were in dire straights. We couldn't afford anything. Well guess what my mother went back to school, got an education and a decent paying job.

Thanks!
Brunette

 

[punkin]

I never said there was no excuse to find yourself poor. What is inexcusable to settle on that as your lot in life and not try to improve your situation.

Anne

*******

I agree with your concept and logic. There are plenty of ways to improve the situation you are in when you are indeed at poverty levels. I for one can vouch for that. My mother was on foodstamps when we were kids. My dad left us and we were in dire straights. We couldn't afford anything. Well guess what my mother went back to school, got an education and a decent paying job.

Thanks!

Brunette

Yes. You are both right and I was raised in exactly the same circumstances with a single mother on welfare. BUT, and here is here I think you are missing the point...My mother came from the midle class. Her mother's parents were actually considered well off (not rich-they had their own business). She was not raised with the hopelessnes and inertia that permiates the multi-generational poor. She had some bad luck and when her luck got better, her hard work helped her get out. When I was 9 years old, we were living on rice, potatoes and chicken gizzards. By the time I went to college, my mother owned a house, and while from wealthy, was solidly middle class.

People whose parents and great-grandparents were always poor have no concept that there is anything they can do (apart from winning the lottery) that will ever change their situation.

 

[DisneyGirl4188]

I never said there was no excuse to find yourself poor. What is inexcusable to settle on that as your lot in life and not try to improve your situation.

Anne

You didn't say it, brunette8706 said it. I should have made that more clear when responding. She stated there was no excuse to be in poverty, well there is. I gave an example of what can happen.

Everyone should try to improve their life, but everyone's situation is different. No one should judge others, nor should anyone make blanket statements as brunette8706 did.

 

[Lizzy2]

This is a very interesting thread. When I posted earlier, I talked about working with folks who were barely getting by. What I neglected to convey was that the great majority of these folks WANTED to do things themselves but lack of life training often kept them from doing it.
There was talk of rice and beans vs. McDonalds which of course makes sense but who taught you that? Were you born knowing that rice and beans were better for you?
I remember a wonderful lady at my Girls Club growing up. She taught an afterschool home ec. type class. While we did fun things like cook brownies, she also taught us how to rinse out our "delicates" in the sink and hang them up to dry so they would be clean for school the next day and how important it was for our bodies to be clean also. Why would she teach this? Because there were some girls in our class who smelled. They had very few changes of clothes and obviously no body at home who washed them. She talked to us about healthy food and excercise and about how to study and take notes in class. She taught us how to take as much responsibility for ourselves as we could when the people who were supposed to didn't. She was a "life coach", a mentor.
Folks, this is what a lot of underprivileged people need and they need it b4 they are unwed teenage mothers(although I'm sure they need it too) or doing drugs in the street. How many people on this thread have said that most poverty is generational, learned behavior?
We can talk statistics and percentages until we are blue in the face but until we all get real about what it takes to make a change(myself included) everything will stay the same.
And that's all I have to say about that.


84 days and counting

 

[DMRick]

I think I had the same lady where I grew up. I did grow up in a very poor area, and I've forgotten how good the Girl's Club was for the very reason's you mentioned.

I remember a wonderful lady at my Girls Club growing up. She taught an afterschool home ec. type class. While we did fun things like cook brownies, she also taught us how to rinse out our "delicates" in the sink and hang them up to dry so they would be clean for school the next day and how important it was for our bodies to be clean also. Why would she teach this? Because there were some girls in our class who smelled. They had very few changes of clothes and obviously no body at home who washed them. She talked to us about healthy food and excercise and about how to study and take notes in class. She taught us how to take as much responsibility for ourselves as we could when the people who were supposed to didn't. She was a "life coach", a mentor.

 

[brunette8706]

Everyone should try to improve their life, but everyone's situation is different. No one should judge others, nor should anyone make blanket statements as brunette8706 did.

***

Sorry you feel like that. But it's not a blanket statement. Anyone that is in poverty has a way out if they truly want to get out.

brunette

 

[mickeyfan2]

Yes. You are both right and I was raised in exactly the same circumstances with a single mother on welfare. BUT, and here is here I think you are missing the point...My mother came from the midle class. Her mother's parents were actually considered well off (not rich-they had their own business). She was not raised with the hopelessnes and inertia that permiates the multi-generational poor. She had some bad luck and when her luck got better, her hard work helped her get out. When I was 9 years old, we were living on rice, potatoes and chicken gizzards. By the time I went to college, my mother owned a house, and while from wealthy, was solidly middle class.

People whose parents and great-grandparents were always poor have no concept that there is anything they can do (apart from winning the lottery) that will ever change their situation.

This was the point I was trying to make earlier. You did a better job at it.

 

[DisneyGirl4188]

Everyone should try to improve their life, but everyone's situation is different. No one should judge others, nor should anyone make blanket statements as brunette8706 did.

***

Sorry you feel like that. But it's not a blanket statement. Anyone that is in poverty has a way out if they truly want to get out.

brunette

You're entitled to your opinion, as wrong as it may be. We will just have to disagree, because you are obviously never going to see how wrong you are.


Lizzy2, that was an excellent post. I grew up in a well to do family (I was not rich, but I didn't want for anything). However, I went to school with lots of kids that had NOTHING. One family even had dirt floors. They had no idea clue about personal care or what was healthy for them. Unless someone actually teaches you something, you won't know. They just do what they see at home.

 

[ducklite]

People whose parents and great-grandparents were always poor have no concept that there is anything they can do (apart from winning the lottery) that will ever change their situation.

I have to disagree with this as a general overall statement. I believe that there are a lot of people born into poverty or lower income homes who have the capacity and will to achieve something better in their life--and go on to do so through hard work. I believe those who work their way up to a better life are far more likely to remain in the higher income bracket, versus those who "win the lottery" and blow through the money because they haven't "learned the value" of money or developed skills to "save for a rainy day."

Anne

 

[barkley]

I agree. This is why we have LTC insurance as well as LTD insurance. The LTC would have allowed the working spouse to keep working while the injured spouse had a caregiver around. Also since we pay 100% of the premiums our LTD and LTC insurance is not taxable income. If your employer pays the premiums then it is taxable income.

this would have worked for us if i qualified for ltc coverage-but since i could use a bathroom (albiet better with assistance) and had no issues that 'required' round the clock coverage (i could get in and out of a bed unassisted-hoping my weakened side would not give out), i could feed my self with prepared meals but it was not safe for me to prepare my own-i would not have met the criteria for needing ltc (my mother in her 80's is much more disabled than i-but because she is able to manage some 'self care' criteria she is no where near 'ltc' eligible-ltc requires that the individual require 'skilled nursing care'-so if you have no medical issues that require a r.n. you are likely ineligible).

taxable income made no difference to us-my ltd was based on my 'average salary' and since i had medical issues sporadicaly for a year or more prior to becoming disabled the ltd looked at my 'average earnings' over the previous calendar year vs. my full time salary when i was healthy.

 

[brunette8706]

You're entitled to your opinion, as wrong as it may be. We will just have to disagree, because you are obviously never going to see how wrong you are.

****

But I'm not wrong. As you stated you came from a Well To Do Family. Well guess what I didn't. My mother got out of welfare by making things better for herself and her kids. She went back to school and got an education. It can be done, especially with all the government assistance out there.

Brunette

 

[mickeyfan2]

this would have worked for us if i qualified for ltc coverage-but since i could use a bathroom (albiet better with assistance) and had no issues that 'required' round the clock coverage (i could get in and out of a bed unassisted-hoping my weakened side would not give out), i could feed my self with prepared meals but it was not safe for me to prepare my own-i would not have met the criteria for needing ltc (my mother in her 80's is much more disabled than i-but because she is able to manage some 'self care' criteria she is no where near 'ltc' eligible-ltc requires that the individual require 'skilled nursing care'-so if you have no medical issues that require a r.n. you are likely ineligible).

taxable income made no difference to us-my ltd was based on my 'average salary' and since i had medical issues sporadicaly for a year or more prior to becoming disabled the ltd looked at my 'average earnings' over the previous calendar year vs. my full time salary when i was healthy.

My LTC does not require me to require an RN to get paid. There are other criteria. Different policies I guess. My regerence to taxable vs non-taxable was in reference to the disability money itself. My LTD payment would not be subject to any income taxes, but LTD from my company would be subject to income taxes (thus it get reduced).

 

[mickeyfan2]

One family even had dirt floors. They had no idea clue about personal care or what was healthy for them. Unless someone actually teaches you something, you won't know. They just do what they see at home.

This is so true. In Turkey all men serve in the military for a year (some exceptions if you are educated and pay $). They learn the military stuff, but they are also taugh personal hygene, how to read and how to write. When they leave the hope is that they continue their new found hygene and education skills and change the course of the next generation.

 

[punkin]

I have to disagree with this as a general overall statement. I believe that there are a lot of people born into poverty or lower income homes who have the capacity and will to achieve something better in their life--and go on to do so through hard work. I believe those who work their way up to a better life are far more likely to remain in the higher income bracket, versus those who "win the lottery" and blow through the money because they haven't "learned the value" of money or developed skills to "save for a rainy day."

Anne

I'm not sure where I was suggesting that winning the lottery is a viable solution to poverty?

And, again Anne, I agree with you that some people will get out, through a combination of hard work, intelligence, talent, and luck (I am paraphrasing another poster here)...but most won't because they do not have the life skills necessary to do so.

 

[ducklite]

I'm not sure where I was suggesting that winning the lottery is a viable solution to poverty?

And, again Anne, I agree with you that some people will get out, through a combination of hard work, intelligence, talent, and luck (I am paraphrasing another poster here)...but most won't because they do not have the life skills necessary to do so.

Sorry, didn't mean you had said that. To add to that post, one could insert the word "inheritance" or "lawsuit settlement" as a substitute for lottery, and come up with the same end result.

I do agree that some people don't have life skills, but I believe that those who choose to make that positive change in their lives will educate themselves on those life skills in the same way a kid going off to college figures out how to use a coin laundry or a person from the country finds their way around the NYC subway system. They might make a few mistakes and end up with pink boxers or out in Corona when they were trying to get to Yankee Stadium, but they learn from their mistakes and use that mistake as a stepping stone to become better educated about that type of life skill.

Anne

 

[arminnie]

People whose parents and great-grandparents were always poor have no concept that there is anything they can do (apart from winning the lottery) that will ever change their situation.

Not always. My paternal grandfather was an unemployed coal miner who died in his 30s. My maternal grandmother had to abandon her children in a "poor" house as she had no way to take care of them. We are talking Appalachian poverty - the real kind.

My maternal grandfather was a minority sharecropper. This was rural Arkansas hardscrabble total poverty.

My parents were very, very poor. My mother did not work and my father had a series of odd jobs. We were poor by any definition of the word going back for generations. Things like toothpaste, dental and medical care, and even deoderant were not available.

From a very early age I knew that I did not want to be poor. I did not want to have babies that I could not support - I'd seen that first hand. It is not a pleasant life. I never saw a doctor. We went to the public health clinic for school vacinations.

I am very, very comfortable after years of hard work. Did I have some luck - well I had just as much bad luck along the way too. My brother is so far beyond comfortable as to be filthy rich. It can be done. I've seen it happen over and over again. I am not that unique not special.

 

[DisneyGirl4188]

You're entitled to your opinion, as wrong as it may be. We will just have to disagree, because you are obviously never going to see how wrong you are.

****

But I'm not wrong. As you stated you came from a Well To Do Family. Well guess what I didn't. My mother got out of welfare by making things better for herself and her kids. She went back to school and got an education. It can be done, especially with all the government assistance out there.

Brunette

Right there are always going to be people who can overcome. However, there's also going to be people who can't. You stated there is no reason for people to be poor.

What about the people who aren't that intellegent? They can't just go to college or learn a trade becuase they aren't mentally able. These people can only work fast food or be a maid (I am NOT saying the everyone that does these jobs aren't smart, please no one take offense).

What about people that live in rural areas? The job market isn't great and the pay sucks. They can't just move. They will always make a small income.

My point is that there are instances when people will be poor.