Interesting-re FP new rules

[LaurenT]

UNCFanatik
Mouseketeer
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 79

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenT
Well, I got the memo. Several times. It was offered unprompted.
I was also told in October that FPs would be restricted to the 1 hour window in the near future.
So, if the nurse says come back whenever you like, is the patient supposed to
say...well, are you telling everyone that? Because if you aren't, then that's not
fair and I can't accept your advice.
But what really amazes me is that, even now, the bashers of late FP use still have to post their holier than thou rhetoric....throwing threads off topic and contributing nothing to the discourse. It's not constructive...and after enough people post, I wind up losing my ability to keep my mouth shut and then I, too, become part of the problem (as evidenced with this post).
And while the supporters of non enforcement, are out there still calling people sheep, jealous, uninformed,bashers, holier than thou, etc,,,,

Did I miss the constructive part of your post? All i heard was your holier than thou rhetoric criticizing those "bashers of late FP use"

Did you miss the end of my post....the part where I admit that my post is not constructive? The part where I say that even I lose the ability to keep from joining in the fray?
Do you want to go back and see which side of the old argument felt in necessary to bring it into this thread? Wasn't me...my post was reactionary.

 

[mjp12831]

I believe both is probably correct. With a few exceptions, grabbing a FP early in the morning is pointless. The lines are short anyway so why waste time crossing the park to use them. For that reason it may push things out a little in the morning. Otherwise I see no reason why enforcement would extend the availability significantly since it appears most people were unaware or did not take advantage of the previous enforcement rules.

Agreed on early morning FP now being mostly useless.

I also agree that I don't think enough of the general public will understand this dynamic, and most people will still take these FP prior to the SB lines building up, so I'm not thinking it will end up in pushing the FP supply out later in the day.

 

[mom2rtk]

It should be expected that usage would drop. Fast Pass became more inconvenient. Naturally, when a product becomes less than it was, demand drops.

.......... DING DING DING! We have a WINNER!

That tells the story right there.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what it does to the guest experience right now. The marketing folks at Disney have been charged with increasing the numbers at the gate year after year and they are working hard to make a limited resource go further. That's it. Plain and simple. Adding more FP's into the mix and squeezing every last drop of capacity out of the current system is their answer (as FP's today, then pulled back out as part of NexGen tomorrow).

I WISH the answer had been to add more attractions. Don't get me wrong. I'm very excited about what they are doing with the new Fantasyland. But ultimately it's only netting the park one new ride. I hope that's enough to make a difference and eat some more people. But I'm concerned that it might not make enough difference for the growing number of people coming through the gates every year.

 

[doconeill]

The increase in number of FP issued simply results in a decrease in the number of SB riders in a particular day - I don't believe it would necessarily make waits shorter, and don't understand how it would need to be a byproduct of the window enforcement even if it has been simultaneous with that change.

Unfortunately I believe experience has shown that although logically, 1 added FP rider == 1 less SB rider, the two are not necessarily equivalent. The added FP rider might not have ridden SB because of the line, or they are taking advantage of the FP to ride a second time, etc. And then when you factor in they can be at other attractions, etc. an increase in FP issue in theory can make other lines longer.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Agreed on early morning FP now being mostly useless.

I also agree that I don't think enough of the general public will understand this dynamic, and most people will still take these FP prior to the SB lines building up, so I'm not thinking it will end up in pushing the FP supply out later in the day.

Good point, I don't think that enforcement has as much to do with the extended availability of FP's as much as more FP's being issued. I think a small part of it, however, may be due to enforcement.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Good point, I don't think that enforcement has as much to do with the extended availability of FP's as much as more FP's being issued. I think a small part of it, however, may be due to enforcement.

I would agree. I believe it is a combination of factors.

I would ask you this question since I cant seem to get anyone else to answer thus far.

What do you think would have happened if Disney made the FP non enforcement a widely known matter and over 90% of their guests took advantage of it?

 

[reiella]

Good point, I don't think that enforcement has as much to do with the extended availability of FP's as much as more FP's being issued. I think a small part of it, however, may be due to enforcement.

It may well be a combination effect. They can issue more FP now because the fastpass distribution will no longer be backloaded and instead is more uniform.

 

[2Tiggies]

Today I was at DHS and got a FP for TSMM. When I went back to use it at 12:40, surprisingly there were still FPs available. The CM told me that since they started enforcing the FP return times, FPs are lasting longer, that maybe fewer people are using FP. Interesting!

I don't know whether fewer people are using FP now, but I would imagine it has forced the FP "collectors" (yes, we plead guilty to this from past trips ) to collect fewer Fastpasses because unless you are doing a LOT of backtracking or staying in one part of the park for most of the day, it is pointless collecting FP's that you can't use.

 

[doconeill]

I would agree. I believe it is a combination of factors.

I would ask you this question since I cant seem to get anyone else to answer thus far.

What do you think would have happened if Disney made the FP non enforcement a widely known matter and over 90% of their guests took advantage of it?

Tough to say, but even among those who DID know about it in a poll I did some time back, around three quarters said they still used them within the window or shortly after. Less than a quarter said they used them towards the end of the day.

In general, I think most people get the FPs to ride SOONER than later.

It may well be a combination effect. They can issue more FP now because the fastpass distribution will no longer be backloaded and instead is more uniform.

I don't think the uniformity of FP distribution really has any effect on whether they can issue more FPs or not. The only things that really affect it are:

- The ratio of available slots over the entire day that they want to issue FPs for
- The awareness of the general public on their ability to utilize FPs (when affects how high a ratio they can really use)
- The "breakage" of unused FPs, which in theory has increased since enforcement began

That last one is the one that most likely changed - but how many FPs are now going unused because of it? And then, if as people say guests will not take them if they can't use them late, doesn't that bring the breakage number back down again over time?

 

[CarrieR]

I don't know, we were there last week and if anything FPs seemed to be gone faster. ToT, for example, which normally sits right at 40 minutes out, was up over an hour by noontime. We also both waited more, and WALKED more, than we have on prior trips this year. I don't know that it affected our overall wait per attraction, but it certainly impacted the number of attractions we were able to visit and definitely was not a positive change for my party. It added a whole new level of clock-watching and stress that hadn't been there any other trip. It also put us in lines at peak times, taking up a space we would gladly have abdicated to someone else, since we prefer to visit attractions at non-peak times when there are fewer people vying for the spots.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I would agree. I believe it is a combination of factors.

I would ask you this question since I cant seem to get anyone else to answer thus far.

What do you think would have happened if Disney made the FP non enforcement a widely known matter and over 90% of their guests took advantage of it?

That would have been a disaster, no doubt. As I have previously stated, I think that Disney decided, as a matter of convenience to both the guest and themselves, to allow late FP use. This way it eliminated the arguing about being stuck in a slow restaurant or a ride breaking down, etc. I believe that the reason they left the window on the FP ticket was they knew that the vast majority of people would still return within the timed window.

It is pretty much a given that Disney is rolling out X-Pass in some form and there is evidence to suggest that with it comes a greater percentage of ride capacity dedicated to it. For these reasons, I believe, they need to now enforce the windows.

 

[UNCFanatik]

Tough to say, but even among those who DID know about it in a poll I did some time back, around three quarters said they still used them within the window or shortly after. Less than a quarter said they used them towards the end of the day.

You wouldnt think it would have been problematic if 90% of guest used FPs past their return windows? I am just wondering how in support of late FP use people would be if it was used by 9/10 park goers in a given day.

 

[UNCFanatik]

That would have been a disaster, no doubt. As I have previously stated, I think that Disney decided, as a matter of convenience to both the guest and themselves, to allow late FP use. This way it eliminated the arguing about being stuck in a slow restaurant or a ride breaking down, etc. I believe that the reason they left the window on the FP ticket was they knew that the vast majority of people would still return within the timed window.

It is pretty much a given that Disney is rolling out X-Pass in some form and there is evidence to suggest that with it comes a greater percentage of ride capacity dedicated to it. For these reasons, I believe, they need to now enforce the windows.

Thank you.

 

[FigNewton]

Note every CM got the memo that they were supposed to take late FPs, no questions asked - but it doesn't mean it didn't exist (which it does, or at least did).

And I am not arguing tht it didn't exit. Nor have I for some time. I even acknowledged the extensive evidence that it DID exist in my post.

I just don't think the analogy of a nurse telling everyone who makes the appointment that late arrivals are accepted is a good one.

 

[doris1976]

Sounds like good news to me.

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

In general, I think most people get the FPs to ride SOONER than later.

^This I agree with. How many times do you have to work your way through the group of people standing at the FP entrance waiting for their FP to mature.

 

[doconeill]

You wouldnt think it would have been problematic if 90% of guest used FPs past their return windows? I am just wondering how in support of late FP use people would be if it was used by 9/10 park goers in a given day.

You can throw out all the numbers you want, it doesn't make them realistic.

As I said, of 100% people who KNEW they could use them late, less than a quarter of them used them significantly late.

If for some bizarre reason 90% of guests used them late, well, then you still need to qualify, how late?

If everyone used them 5 minutes late, then it really doesn't matter. It's just shifted everything by 5 minutes. And the standby line gets a 5 minute bonus to boot...

If 90% of guests tried to use them at the end of the day? That's called a "self-limiting problem". They would become unusable, so then no one would use them that way, and therefore it's not a problem again.

 

[momfeez]

I'm a rule follower...so, enforcement of fp times is fine with me Plus if that makes more fp available for those that want to use them at the specified times

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

Thank you.

Of course we all know that that is an absurd example and was not the case, right?

Edit: Doc makes a great point, how late has everything to do with it.

 

[Haley]

I'm surprised the enforcement would make a significant different in return times because: I think a good chunk of guests don't even know about/understand fastpass. The majority of the people I talk to have never heard of it or think it costs extra.

I think a very very small percentage of people even knew that you could return after the time.