Interesting article about Disney's future

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

but overpromising/underdelivering is not a winning strategy anytime.

True, I think people were more understanding in the past. Concept art is concept art after all. But when you hear that Navi's length was cut (and a primary complaint is the length of the attraction being too short), that Star Wars was supposed to have more to it (and there was a lot of dead space we felt in DLR and felt the same in WDW), that Toy Story's restaurant got axed and now years after it's been open they are building one, that they thought to open the land with virtually no shade so silly, that what the front of Epcot was supposed to be is now so little of it it's ridiculous, etc. It's all compounding to a year's long frustration. Most people can only give so much slack.

 

[Mle8308]

It's hard to argue with most of that article, IMO. The maintenance part has gotten so sadly obvious. We had a wonderful time last month during the height of the holidays, but that is 100% b/c we went in with the attitude that we were going to make the most of things and have a great time, no matter what. We had 3 multi-experience passes due to rides going down by early afternoon on our first park day in DL... and not b/c we were fishing for them. And more than once, we decided to use one on a nearby ride only to realize it was also down! So - good thing we came armed with a good attitude!

Aside from rides going down, it's the small(er) things that build up and lessen the experience. Things like the messed-up audio on Space Mountain (small thing, sure, but distracting in a negative way), or leaving an open hole in the ceiling above the shower with visible cut-off plumbing in a bathroom with a door that won't shut in the DLH (flipping premium view club room at that!). We don't regret going, but DH and DS are headed to Universal in Orlando in March, and it'll be interesting to hear the comparisons for a trip that costs less pp. Neither of our teens has expressed any interest in future family trips to DLR or WDW at this point.

Same here, both my nephews (16 & 14) turned down all an all expenses paid, on site deluxe resort, trip to WDW this summer. Granted they are teenagers, but it isn't "hitting" them in the same place it did for me and my siblings when I was younger. And it's not due to the rides. I don't see them bringing their kids when they are older (friends have expressed the same about their kids), and that is where Disney will eventually see the consequences of what they are doing now. Makes me a little sad.

 

[starlite_]

You're the one who listed off what you saw as things that came in the last 5 years.

1) the point is these are projects that were announced largely when they realized they have to do something to reinvigorate the parks. That's a reason why people complained because they sat for a long time without doing too too much with the parks then all of a sudden in 2016/2017 they announce stuff and start construction on things during that time period and the several years after. You're the one who said you didn't know why people were cranky...

2) It would appear you missed the time lines. Generally they were able to build the attractions on a faster scale than they are choosing to do now. That is also a valid point people are having. I was one of the people who said "hey guys it's a pandemic after all" but as time went on that reasoning was less the reason and more of way to mask what they were doing.

There's nothing entitled about what people are saying. I suggest people really limit when they use the word entitlement, it's not a catch all for when you personally don't have an issue with something and someone else does but that does seem to be how people are using it. It doesn't mean that. No one is entitled to new attractions all the time. People however can gripe that the company sat for a long time coasting on their reputation for their parks.

I'm sorry you haven't been to WDW and yet you're telling others to not complain?? I realize this article was posted on the DL side but the article is discussing Disney parks in general. There's a reason people have been complaining a lot about WDW and the state of it.

I still don't understand why they are cranky. In just the last 5 years they delivered all things I listed and more. I never said ppl cannot complain. I said I don't understand why they are complaining about Disney not building enough things and as fast as they want. AND when they do build things, ppl complain anyways.

To me, it sounds kinda like entitlement from some folks, you can disagree there too.

Something you said in your previous comment does bring an idea to mind. Disney should just stop sharing concept art and ideas for future projects (as much as I love them), because folks get soo excited and create this whole idea of something that is in early stages and when it isn't as they expected or things had to change then it's back to complaining. At least if they don't show concepts then ppl can't complain about it when things get cut.

All in all I 100% agree with what ComeToSocialize said. And maybe it's just that folks find it's hard to express what they are really mad about. Yes, be upset about promises broken, be mad about nickle-dimming, be mad and disappointed about reduced capacity and entertainment, be angry about lack of cleanness and complain about broken rides and maintenance. But don't put all those feelings and say Disney isn't building new things. Because they are.

 

[Mle8308]

You know, this is something we talked about in December after our teens declined to go on a number of rides; they don't care about Disney history, and at this point - they'd have to, in order to enjoy some of the old rides. (Unless someone out there really thinks Mr. Toad is a great ride lol.) Updates are going to make an equal number of people angry and happy. Some people don't want any of the classic old rides to change, which is a perspective I get, and I don't love the idea of catering to new IP only. The reality is that a good ride is a good ride, and there weren't enough of those (per their definitions) to keep my teens interested in a future trip. They have grown up on a variety of Disney vacations (parks, Aulani, DCL, etc.), and in like 10-15 years, they are the ones who will have kids to take on Disney vacations. Just not sure they will be as into them anymore, certainly not the way I would have thought 5 years ago.

Just posted something similar before reading this. 100% agree.

 

[dreamer17555]

It’s also not just about new attractions but upkeep on current ones- why is Hyperion still sitting dark? Why has nothing replaced Stitch’s great Escape or Little Mermaid in HS? When is the last time the cannons have moved for rise? Too many rides in B mode, too many rides down all the time. They tore down Primeval Whirl (for a good reason) but now there is nothing in its place.

Play pavilion has gotten scrubbed, the Mickey theater has gotten scrapped, the Mary Poppins ride we were promised was stopped. All of these were actual D23 announced projects too- not blue sky like this year.

Tell me if one were to visit this May or later what new exciting event or attraction will lure them back when a Disney trip already feel frustrating (7am for VQ and Genie +) and like being nickeled and dimed. At rising costs and a recession looming, what will make the average family really be like we must go back to try (blank)?

 

[Boopuff]

I really can't understand why they had to mess with Epcot. I loved the fountain, and all the interesting stuff in and around the main entrance. They shuttered Wonders of Life how long ago? The building has sat unused. Odd decisions all around.

 

[foolish_mortals]

The article nailed it on the first point. Customer satisfaction seems overall at a low. Especially with Genie+.

The last time we used G+ we noticed that EVERYONE was irate. The people in the standby were irate watching LL being merged in. The people in the LL were irate when waiting more than 20-30 minutes. On three separate occasions the people in the LL were confused and angry as to why the standby line was moving and why they were waiting. They kept asking the standby line if they were in the correct line. Sure, they don’t see the many switchbacks further into the standby line but it doesn’t matter; it’s all about perception.

The service is poorly designed without any real thought and they are likely overselling G+ and issuing more LL than they ever did Fastpasses to in order to do it. So now every line is long and every is upset.

It’s one thing to nickel and dime people for a service and then deliver. It’s a different thing when you nickel and dime with people left wandering what they paid for.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I still don't understand why they are cranky.

Probably because you haven't been to WDW. Honestly, truthfully, if you haven't been there and your only experience is DLR which is constrained to 2 parks and had essentially a complete redo of one of the parks in 2007 you're missing a lot of how things unfolded over time with the company.

Disney should just stop sharing concept art and ideas for future projects (as much as I love them),

I'd be fine with that but they will still release details because they generally have to and insiders will still generally give details too. People will eventually find out if something isn't up to snuff.

Space 220 is probably a good example of they probably should have never released concept art and just stuck with written wording because for the most part the written word is fairly close to what they said it would be but the windows, graphics, lighting all are not anywhere near what the concept art was (well some is but is kinda bad what the end result is).

To me, it sounds kinda like entitlement from some folks, you can disagree there too

If everyone is entitled no one is

But don't put all those feelings and say Disney isn't building new things. Because they are.

I think this is one where your definition is just more narrow. Because when it comes to theme parks it's not about building xyz attractions it's how it is over time. I'm not sure if you were lurking before you joined in late 2021 but I've seen a lot of talk since I've been here since October 2015 and I know I missed a ton of talk in the years before that. I've been around for the announcement of lands and attractions. How they unfolded and how they were received. And I've still missed a lot I'm sure.

Universal for example largely doesn't hold to nostalgia, take that as a pro and a con honestly but generally they are fine with removing and replacing and adding on. They aren't infallible to errors or delays. I wouldn't be surprised if they decide Simpsons area needs to go and something put in its place although with the new theme park they may not need to. Universal too spent a long time in lull land. Most people agree Universal was not "in the game" until they got the contract for Harry Potter but since then Universal has kept going and going. They don't need to open an attraction every year but we also can see that they are continuing to invest in their parks. They woke up long before Disney and that's a big point people make with Disney, they sat for along time without much going on.

I can see why people are annoyed at the time it's taking for clone attractions, why people are complaining about wear and tear on attractions and why they are making the point about what new stuff there is to see and do. As an example the first part of New Fanstasyland in MK opened in 2012 but wasn't fully complete with 7DMT until 2014. Since 2014 there hasn't been anything new in MK...except for Tron 9 years later. At least to my recollection (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

AK has seen Pandora since 2006 but that's all and Dinoland was left to rot. And I could go on and on.

 

[Jrb1979]

Such a poorly researched story. I was especially amused about no new attractions are being built. One word answer - Tron

They mentioned Tron in the article. After that there is nothing on the horizon. When you add in how long it takes them go build anything, Epic Universe will be open

 

[irlandaise]

The problem for Disney is that all the parks revenue is being sucked up by other parts of the company.

Yep. There may still be a vestige of a labor shortage, but the big problem is that the Disney Parks division can't afford to hire the people they need to do adequate maintenance and interact with guests.

 

[Jrb1979]

I still don't understand why they are cranky. In just the last 5 years they delivered all things I listed and more. I never said ppl cannot complain. I said I don't understand why they are complaining about Disney not building enough things and as fast as they want. AND when they do build things, ppl complain anyways.

To me, it sounds kinda like entitlement from some folks, you can disagree there too.

Something you said in your previous comment does bring an idea to mind. Disney should just stop sharing concept art and ideas for future projects (as much as I love them), because folks get soo excited and create this whole idea of something that is in early stages and when it isn't as they expected or things had to change then it's back to complaining. At least if they don't show concepts then ppl can't complain about it when things get cut.

All in all I 100% agree with what ComeToSocialize said. And maybe it's just that folks find it's hard to express what they are really mad about. Yes, be upset about promises broken, be mad about nickle-dimming, be mad and disappointed about reduced capacity and entertainment, be angry about lack of cleanness and complain about broken rides and maintenance. But don't put all those feelings and say Disney isn't building new things. Because they are.

It's part of it. IMO a lot of the resentment of Disney is due to looking at what Universal is building and not responding to it. I also know that many here also aren't interested in Universal.


A lot of it has to also with that many here are more Disney parks fans and less the other parts of Disney. Their focus will be what's happening at the parks versus what D+ or the studios is doing.

 

[irlandaise]

You know, this is something we talked about in December after our teens declined to go on a number of rides; they don't care about Disney history, and at this point - they'd have to, in order to enjoy some of the old rides. (Unless someone out there really thinks Mr. Toad is a great ride lol.)

Hey, MTWR is iconic! It even made the Sunday New York Times crossword this week! Twice, actually; one clue was "The Wind in the Willows squire" and the other was "Where 95-Down's Wild Ride ends, at Disneyland."

I understand the concern about younger people not knowing the classic characters, but given the stampedes that occur for Peter Pan at DL opening and after the fireworks, I can't imagine Disney taking that one away. And hopefully not Toad, either.

 

[cmph]

Hey, MTWR is iconic! It even made the Sunday New York Times crossword this week! Twice, actually; one clue was "The Wind in the Willows squire" and the other was "Where 95-Down's Wild Ride ends, at Disneyland."

I understand the concern about younger people not knowing the classic characters, but given the stampedes that occur for Peter Pan at DL opening and after the fireworks, I can't imagine Disney taking that one away. And hopefully not Toad, either.

I dragged DH on Toad a couple weeks ago, b/c it was literally walk-on and I really find all the old rides endearing. My kids do not remember, but that was the very first ride they ever went on in DL when they were little. (I also LOVE Peter Pan.) But now as teens, they would rather sit at a table with a snack than go on any of the old dark rides, and the list of things they want to do is not long. I have had this slow realization that a few years down the road, it's probably going to be DH and me going on Disney trips without the kids, instead of family trips.

 

[irlandaise]

The thing I don't understand is why people "who have been going forever" actually think that Disney had decent rides in the past? In the 80's there were no good rides compared to other parks. The fun was getting immersed into the Disney universe.

Whoa, "no good rides"? Even if you don't think the iconic Disneyland dark rides like the Haunted Mansion, Pirates, and Peter Pan are "good," how about the Matterhorn? Big Thunder? Splash Mountain? Space Mountain? All of those were available in the 1980s.

 

[Jrb1979]

I dragged DH on Toad a couple weeks ago, b/c it was literally walk-on and I really find all the old rides endearing. My kids do not remember, but that was the very first ride they ever went on in DL when they were little. (I also LOVE Peter Pan.) But now as teens, they would rather sit at a table with a snack than go on any of the old dark rides, and the list of things they want to do is not long. I have had this slow realization that a few years down the road, it's probably going to be DH and me going on Disney trips without the kids, instead of family trips.

Take them to Universal. I'm sure they would enjoy the thrill rides there.

 

[starlite_]

Probably because you haven't been to WDW. Honestly, truthfully, if you haven't been there and your only experience is DLR which is constrained to 2 parks and had essentially a complete redo of one of the parks in 2007 you're missing a lot of how things unfolded over time with the company.

I'd be fine with that but they will still release details because they generally have to and insiders will still generally give details too. People will eventually find out if something isn't up to snuff.

Space 220 is probably a good example of they probably should have never released concept art and just stuck with written wording because for the most part the written word is fairly close to what they said it would be but the windows, graphics, lighting all are not anywhere near what the concept art was (well some is but is kinda bad what the end result is).

If everyone is entitled no one is

I think this is one where your definition is just more narrow. Because when it comes to theme parks it's not about building xyz attractions it's how it is over time. I'm not sure if you were lurking before you joined in late 2021 but I've seen a lot of talk since I've been here since October 2015 and I know I missed a ton of talk in the years before that. I've been around for the announcement of lands and attractions. How they unfolded and how they were received. And I've still missed a lot I'm sure.

Universal for example largely doesn't hold to nostalgia, take that as a pro and a con honestly but generally they are fine with removing and replacing and adding on. They aren't infallible to errors or delays. I wouldn't be surprised if they decide Simpsons area needs to go and something put in its place although with the new theme park they may not need to. Universal too spent a long time in lull land. Most people agree Universal was not "in the game" until they got the contract for Harry Potter but since then Universal has kept going and going. They don't need to open an attraction every year but we also can see that they are continuing to invest in their parks. They woke up long before Disney and that's a big point people make with Disney, they sat for along time without much going on.

I can see why people are annoyed at the time it's taking for clone attractions, why people are complaining about wear and tear on attractions and why they are making the point about what new stuff there is to see and do. As an example the first part of New Fanstasyland in MK opened in 2012 but wasn't fully complete with 7DMT until 2014. Since 2014 there hasn't been anything new in MK...except for Tron 9 years later. At least to my recollection (someone correct me if I'm wrong).

AK has seen Pandora since 2006 but that's all and Dinoland was left to rot. And I could go on and on.

I really wish you would stop putting words in my mouth. I can't have a conversation like that.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I really wish you would stop putting words in my mouth. I can't have a conversation like that.

Hmm I certainly don't feel like I am. You say you haven't been to WDW and yet you are talking about people's gripes about WDW. You say you don't know why people are cranky and multiple people have given you reasons why. No one has demanded a ride each year, if anything that's you putting words into other people's mouths exaggerating what they are complaining about.

If you'd like to explain what you feel words are being misconstrued please do so. Otherwise my only assumption is you just don't agree with the information presented.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I have had this slow realization that a few years down the road, it's probably going to be DH and me going on Disney trips without the kids, instead of family trips.

I agree with the PP about maybe trying something new. You could still go to Disney with just you and your husband but Universal does have great appeal for the slightly older kids the teens, etc. The only warning I would give is they do have a decent amount of simulator and screen based rides but it's worth exploring. Harry Potter has a great feel to it, it's hard not to get sucked into the ambience there with the background music playing, all the little details, etc.

 

[starlite_]

Hmm I certainly don't feel like I am. You say you haven't been to WDW and yet you are talking about people's gripes about WDW. You say you don't know why people are cranky and multiple people have given you reasons why. No one has demanded a ride each year, if anything that's you putting words into other people's mouths exaggerating what they are complaining about.

If you'd like to explain what you feel words are being misconstrued please do so. Otherwise my only assumption is you just don't agree with the information presented.

Did I? Or is that your interpretation of it to dismiss my pov? I said I hadn't made it there to see the new things, not that I have never been. That means I haven't been there in the last 5 years. I'm done talking to you, I'm tired of my words being twisted.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Did I? Or is that your interpretation of it to dismiss my pov? I said I hadn't made it there to see the new things, not that I have never been. That means I haven't been there in the last 5 years. I'm done talking to you, I'm tired of my words being twisted.

Feel free to PM me later if you want