Insiders - Please comment!

[David in Manassas]

On Al Lutz's www.miceage.com site, Al comments that The Land is slated to be getting a soaring clone attractions - but that because of budget cutbacks, the IMAX film will be the same - Soaring Over California -

Surely this can't be!....any other whispers about this?

 

[wdwguide]

Whatever Al Lutz says, chances are it is inpired by fanaticism, not the truth.

 

[All Aboard]

I have no inside information, but would bet big money that "Soarin' over California" will not ever come to Epcot. Soarin' over something may very well. But, not California. There has to be someone within the Disney organization that can clearly see that it has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to Epcot or Florida.

 

[pr surfer]

this rumour is wishful thinking and nothing more..

 

[Another Voice]

Actually Mr. Lutz is very much on the mark with this one.

'Soaring Over Califorina' has been the "hot" attraction ever since California Adventure opened more than two years ago. It is widely believed inside Disney to be the only "success" in the entire park*. Even before the park opened, WDW was scrambling to find a way to get it's own version the attraction.

There have numerous plans pushed forward by each park for a clone. Some are good, some are bad. Some came fairly close to seeing the light of day, some never had a chance. Last year when Disney thought things were going to pick up, there were "rumors" about it anchoring a new area in Animal Kingdom (those plans were drastically scaled back to just the 'Expedition: Everest' roller coaster). There are even "rumors" that 'Mickey's PhilaMagic' actually started out as a version for the Magic Kingdom. You and Mickey would take a breathtaking aerial tour through the enhanced realms of the kingdom (think about all the flying characters from Disney films and you'll understand why this could have worked), but continuing budget cuts first eliminated the actual 'Soaring' system, then killed off the 'Honey I Shrunk the Audience' motion base. But that's how Disney project seem to be going lately.

At WDW, Epcot is generally considered the park most in trouble. Eisner has always hated the place and it has never quite kept pace with the future it's supposed to represent. As the Simpsons called it, "what people back in 1965 thought 1982 would look like". So you've got a hot new show and a park seriously in need of hot new shows…guess what happens.

Right now is also budget time through the worlds of Disney. Many spreadsheets are created, many Power Point presentations are rehearsed, and many dreams are sent to the higher reaches of Management. Right now the feeling is the feeling is Attractions and Corporate management only have one goal – the cash must flow.

WDW knows it can not keep up its attendance without new attractions. Corporate is unwilling to spend any money because cash only is supposed to flow out of Florida, not into it. So Attractions is caught in the middle, trying to keep WDW up and running as a business and at the same time paying off the bill for the last seven Dick Clark Blooper Specials over at ABC.

The cheapest way to get "new" is to clone existing attractions. They're also an easier sell to Corporate (because they've already been proven to be popular). Whether or not people truly want them, or even if they fit a park's theme is beside the point. Does anyone really want an auto stunt show at Disney/MGM? No, but it's new and its cheap. Does 'Soaring Over California' fit in 'The Land'? No, but it's new and it's cheap. Yes, people at WDW would like a new movie for the attraction, but there's a reason cheap is in bold print. If making it cheaper (by saving the cost of a new movie) makes it more likely to be approved, well then that's what has to be done. A new movie can always be made later.

So before anyone uses their bouncing smiley faces to pummel Mr. Lutz, just remember that 'Soaring Over California' is a possibility right now. No one – no one – knows what will be approved; and if it's approved no one is sure it will even be built.



* - yes, I know someone in your family thinks the bread making exhibit is Disney Magic® at it's finest, but the view of 'Soaring' is what the business and creative types inside Disney say they have.

 

[d-r]

so your saying that the rumors about putting a tortilla factory into the Mexico pavillion are false?

 

[*Robin*]

Originally posted by Another Voice

* - yes, I know someone in your family thinks the bread making exhibit is Disney Magic® at it's finest,

Hehehehehehe...........

 

[raidermatt]

I have to believe that sanity will prevail on this one, but it is troublesome that its even being considered.

 

[Planogirl]

How would a Soarin' Over California fit into Epcot? I can't see it tying to anything.

* - yes, I know someone in your family thinks the bread making exhibit is Disney Magic® at it's finest, but the view of 'Soaring' is what the business and creative types inside Disney say they have.

Good one. And what about the Orange Stinger, Florida being a citrus-producing state and all?

 

[OnWithTheShow]

I don't want to sound like I am always doubting what AV says (after meeting Jeffrey Katze... I mean AV I put a lot of stock in what he says). But I dont see how any type of Soarin type attraction could fit in the space formerly occupied by Legend of the Lion King. Even if they heightened the roof of the building and went deeper into the performance and green room space of the the building there would not even be room for one of DCA's soarin ride chambers. If they reduced the size of the unit you would be looking at an hourly capacity of less than a thousand, certainly not acceptable for a Magic Kingdom attraction.

As for other possible implementations of the Soarin' ride system, these are the things I have heard.

Magic Kingdom - I havent heard of any possible attraction utilizing the Soarin' ride system.

Disney MGM Studios - An attraction in the backlot area with the theme of flight in movies. I guess they could use the same film from Soarin' Over California if they can come up with a movie tie-in.

Animal Kingdom - Various different incarnations. From Africa, and Asia, to it anchoring new lands such as South America, North America, or Australia. I hear that there is a push towards North America in an effort to promote conservation and educate guests about the animals that live in their areas.

Epcot - The strongest rumors have come from here. I have actuallly heard from several people (FORMERLY high up in the Epcot management chain, now working in a different area) that this is definite. The one I lean towards the most is Soarin Over Japan sponsered by, you guessed it Oriental Land Company. Something is up in Japan as I have seen imagineers and Japanese corporate types in the pavilion and other areas of World Showcase frequently. Also I have heard, Soarin' Over Spain if that ever happens. Or a Flight pavilion in Future World following the same theme as Soarin Over California.

Frankly I think it is a matter of months not years before we hear about a Soarin clone in WDW.

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by OnWithTheShow
But I dont see how any type of Soarin type attraction could fit in the space formerly occupied by Legend of the Lion King. .

I think the point was using the Land building not just the space occupied by the Legend of the Lion King.

 

[Galahad]

AV,

What does Eisner hate about EPCOT?

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I'd rather see a new Soarin' film at Epcot, but I think that Al Lutz and AV are on the right track.

If Disney management wants to put a Soarin' type attraction in Epcot, they have two choices:
(1) Put in a proven crowd pleaser, without spending millions on a new film
(2) Spend millions more on a new, unproven film, just to fit in better with one of the current Epcot themes.

Unless a sponsor wants to pay for option 2, I can't see Disney management choosing anything but option 1. And, these days, there doesn't seem to be a stampede of sponsors waving cash at Disney.

The idea that Oriental Land Company (OLC) would want to sponsor a Soarin' Over Japan attraction is just wishful thinking. OLC doesn't sell anything in the United States. Yeah, they might gain a small number of additional US or European visitors to TDL and TDS, but their return on investment would be awful.

So, then it becomes an issue of how to make Soarin' Over California fit into Epcot. I think they could pull it off, even if it is a stretch.

If you think about it, Soarin' Over California is about land use. You soar "over" various types of agriculture, urban spaces, and natural settings. With a proper pre-show setup, the attraction is about land that just happens to be in California. Therefore, it could go into a new building addition on the side of the Land pavilion.

Do you remember that for many years, you could see "The Wonders of China" in Tomorrowland at Disneyland in California? There was no effort to fit to a theme. So before anyone says that "sanity will prevail on this one," just remember that putting Soarin' over California into Future World at Epcot is a lot more sane than other attraction decisions that Disney has made over the years.

 

[raidermatt]

I don't know that much about OLC's businesses... do they benefit from tourism in Japan?

If the criteria for fitting the "land" theme is simply that land be in the film then, yes, CA fits I guess. Since the new criteria for DCA is basically anything that was ever seen/heard/discussed in California, that new criteria for the Land shouldn't be a surprise.

Really though, in terms of attraction cost, a new film is not very expensive. Without it, there's just one more reason for WDW visitors to never bother going to DLR, and vice-versa.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

Originally posted by raidermatt
I don't know that much about OLC's businesses... do they benefit from tourism in Japan?

OLC's main business is the development and operation of the Tokyo Disneyland Resort, including the hotels. See http://www.olc.co.jp/english/company.html

So, yes, OLC benefits from tourism. But if they want to drum up more visitors for the Tokyo Disneyland Resort, they could achieve far better results keeping their marketing investmants closer to home.

Originally posted by raidermatt
If the criteria for fitting the "land" theme is simply that land be in the film then, yes, CA fits I guess. Since the new criteria for DCA is basically anything that was ever seen/heard/discussed in California, that new criteria for the Land shouldn't be a surprise.

It's not just that "land be in the film." The film soars over developed and undeveloped expanses of California -- the number one agriculture state and the number population state. It wouldn't be hard to make a very meaningful tie-in to "The Land," without changing one frame of the film, just by offering the right perspective in the queue exhibits and the pre-show.

Originally posted by raidermatt
Really though, in terms of attraction cost, a new film is not very expensive.

It's not just shooting the film, there are the creative people, the special effects and sychronization to the motion. I have no idea how many millions it would cost, but it would cost millions. And there's no guarantee that it would turn out as well as the current Soarin' film.

Originally posted by raidermatt
Without it, there's just one more reason for WDW visitors to never bother going to DLR, and vice-versa.

I agree with you completely on that one. I'd like to see attractions in California and Florida that aren't largely the same.

 

[daannzzz]

Isn't Soarin' presented in an IMAX omnidome? Doesn't Disney have a nice relationship with IMAX right now? Could they not pay IMAX money for film clips and go through all of the IMAX film that exists and cobble together something that would be more fitting than Soarin' over California? There is probably not enough footage of just land related objects. They could do a Soarin' Over America. Remeber the 3D Imax buffalo sculpture film? Hmmmm! How could they fit some of that in?

 

[PatriciaH]

Originally posted by Planogirl
How would a Soarin' Over California fit into Epcot? I can't see it tying to anything.


Good one. And what about the Orange Stinger, Florida being a citrus-producing state and all?

Oh my god don't give them ideas-I can just see it now Haha!

 

[pr surfer]

Originally posted by Galahad
What does Eisner hate about EPCOT?

that it isn't making him enough money.

 

[Another Voice]

Again, this is nothing but an internal proposal at this point – one of dozens at the moment. Almost all of them (if not all) will be killed of shortly in the race to find the dough to keep the lights on at ABC.

An exact copy of 'Soaring Over California' isn't anyone's first choice, but they're getting a little desperate for ways of getting anything approved these days. Saving the cost of the new film and the programming that goes along with it is one way.

The only guaranteed for a clone to appear is if it was title 'Soaring Over [Your Corporate Logo Here]'. Disney's been trying reeaaallll hard for two years to find someone to fork over the dough, but there haven't been any takers. And with the rate they're losing current sponsors, the effort is simply to fill the already existing unsponsored attractions.

The building need to the house the structure is very simple. The ride mechanism supports itself (remember it was designed for earthquake country). All you need is a roof and a wall to nail the screen to. Any changes needed to The Land would be failure minor compared to the rest of the attraction. As for whether it fits, Disney isn't concerned with themeing if there are dollars involved.

 

[OnWithTheShow]

Here are some interesting Soarin' links:

Aerial Photo from MapQuest (you can compare the size of Soarin show building with that of Indy/Dinosaur) Indy is the white rectangular building in the lower left of Disneyland, Soarin is the grey roofed arched building down and to the right from Indy.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.ad...owwjUcqfGa6v9cpqis228CWBz2NJvcE8xf40FjCt+/qki

Imagineer Interview from Laughing Place:

http://www.laughingplace.com/News-PID502340-502340.asp

Patent for Soarin (check out the drawings if you dont understand the ride)

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...txt&s1=Disney.ASNM.&OS=AN/Disney&RS=AN/Disney