Input needed on Daycare Dilemma!! UPDATE PAGE 2

[LynnTH]

This is a long story so I will try to cut it short. Started a new daycare for my kids (6 & 4) about 11 weeks ago. (our previous daycare lady wanted to start a new career - had been there 3 years). Things were going OK but not great. Had some problems and tried to work them out with her. She pretty much said it was the kids and not her. Last Thursday after I picked up the kids and asked my son about daycare that day (as I do every day) he started to cry. Apparantly, she served malt 0 meal for breakfast (which my son won't eat and she knew that last time she served it) well, she proceeded to punish him the entire day because of it. He was not allowed to play with the other kids, watch TV, do crafts -he had to sit at the kitchen table all day. She then tried to feed it to him at lunch. He still wouldn't eat it. Finally, after all the other kids got to eat she gave him some pizza but he was not allowed snack later in the day either. This was just the last straw for me. She seems to have this control issue and I had had it. The last couple of weeks my daughter would cry every time she went there. I discussed this with her and told her not to separate her from her brother (which she was doing) and that we needed to work together on this. So, my daughter is crying every morning when my husband drops them off and then she gets a time out for crying. Wouldn't you think you would try to comfort her and try to make her like it there. There are so many other stories but would take too long to list. Anyway, so on Thursday I was in tears and got home and told hubby. We decided they were never going back and we called and told her that. She got all defensive and of course it was all my kids fault and then she demanded her 2 weeks pay as we had signed a contract that we must give 2 weeks notice. Well, we had given her a week up front so she wanted the other week. My husband told her that if she wanted it that she would have to take us to court. So, we get a registered letter yesterday demanding payment by Monday or they will start court proceedings and we will have to pay all their costs and time off to go to court etc etc. So, I wrote them back a letter last night - 4 pages long- detailing all the reasons they were not going to get paid by us. Pretty much because she did not fufill her end of the contract by supplying a safe, secure and loving environment. I just sent it today and also sent a copy to the county who holds her license. Not sure if they will still take us to court or not - but does anyone think that they even have a case and we will have to pay. I was not about to keep my kids 2 more weeks in that situation just so she could have her 2 week notice. This has been so upsetting for us and I am so angry for her treating the children the way she has. We have found a new daycare and we start next week - this one seems great and the lady is so nice and easy to talk to. Any input would be great. Thanks.

 

[mickeyboat]

Good day care is so hard to find. Sorry your little ones were treated so poorly. I hope your new provider works out for you.

Was there some sort of trial/probationary period allowed in the contract? 11 weeks is less than 90 days? What does the contract say about attorney's fees? How much is the weekly fee? Do you think she would be willing to split the difference with you? Was there anything in the contract allowing you to back out if she did not provide the safe, loving environment you expected? It sounds like technically you have violated the contract by refusing to pay for the two weeks notice.

We had a small dispute with our day care provider this summer. My daughter did some damage to her home, and she felt we should pay for it. (She flushed a "Little People" person down the toilet which caught on some tree branches in the sewer line, and caused the plumbing to back up). DH had Roto-Rooter come out and clean out the sewer line at the tune of $212. I offered to pay half the cost, and avoided a huge confrontation for $106.

Good luck to you.

Denae

 

[Lynn CC]

I ran a family daycare for 11 years out of my home. That daycare lady sounds like such an abuser. I'm glad you took your kids out of there, no child should be treated like that. It makes me so angry to hear that they were treated in such a way.

It's probably a good idea to drop in during the day unannounced just to see if they are enjoying themselves and being treated like they should be. This is something that a daycare provider shouldn't mind. I used to tell my parents to stop by anytime and just walk in they were always welcome, and they did. It didn't matter if the child was there 2 days or 2 years, parents should always have the option to join in during the day with their children's activities even if it's for 20 minutes.

As far as the daycare provider taking you to court, you should call your local Office For Children or where ever she got her license from and explain your situation. They should go down and ivestigate her, unannounced from time to time! They will be able to tell you more about legal issues, I never experienced anything like that in my 11 years so I'm not much help there.

If people don't really LOVE children then they should have their license taken away. It's not a job that you can just do for the money, but unfortunately not everyone cares.
Hugs to you and your family!

 

[Beth76]

If you have a huge list of things that she was doing wrong with the kids, I seriously doubt she would pursue it any further. She was probably just bluffing hoping that you would pay up. I hope so anyway. I'm sorry your poor kids were so miserable. I hope they like the new place.

 

[Christine]

You may have to go to court, but I think that they will end up letting you off. The 2-week notice stipulation is to protect the daycare providers from people just up and changing providers on a whim. This is clearly not the case and, if you do go to court, I would get some type of statement from your previous provider stating that you had been there for three years and that you were responsible parents.

No parent should have to keep their kids in a daycare situation where the provider is "clashing" with the kids. And since she didn't provide her service to you properly then I don't think you should have to pay for them.

It's a shame she is going to drag this out.

 

[LynnTH]

The money is not the issue here. We can easily pay her the money, but we don't feel she is entitled to it. Everytime I picked up the kids and her husband was there he was always yelling at the kids - not once did he ever ask them nicely to stop doing something. Then one day one of the kids did not flush the toilet and all the kids (except hers) were given time outs and then had to ask to use the bathroom from then on. And last week she needed the kids to be picked up early so I had my parents go get them. My dad saw her 6 year old son in the garage with car keys in one hand and one of those long butane lighters in the other -lighting things on fire in the garage. He could not beleive it. Also, Anytime a child does not eat or like their lunch they also do not get snack later in the day - so then they are not eating all day.

I just don't think I should have to pay her for being abusive, uncaring and irresponsible. Yes, I signed a contract but I didn't agree for her to treat my children that way. Her contract also stated that she would treat children fairly and respectfully (not), hug them once a day (never hugged once), tell the parents one good thing about their child at pick up (she always was complaining and giving negative feedback) My children are not angels but they are pretty good kids and easy going. Our old daycare just loved them and hated leaving them.

I did call the county on her and did report her. They were going to pay her a visit. I also put in writing all the things that led up to us pulling them out without notice and sent that to the county worker that has her file.

It is just so frustrating. We could pay her and make it go away but it is the principle now.

 

[Minnesota!]

The money is not the issue here. We can easily pay her the money, but we don't feel she is entitled to it. Everytime I picked up the kids and her husband was there he was always yelling at the kids - not once did he ever ask them nicely to stop doing something. Then one day one of the kids did not flush the toilet and all the kids (except hers) were given time outs and then had to ask to use the bathroom from then on. And last week she needed the kids to be picked up early so I had my parents go get them. My dad saw her 6 year old son in the garage with car keys in one hand and one of those long butane lighters in the other -lighting things on fire in the garage. He could not beleive it. Also, Anytime a child does not eat or like their lunch they also do not get snack later in the day - so then they are not eating all day.

I just don't think I should have to pay her for being abusive, uncaring and irresponsible. Yes, I signed a contract but I didn't agree for her to treat my children that way. Her contract also stated that she would treat children fairly and respectfully (not), hug them once a day (never hugged once), tell the parents one good thing about their child at pick up (she always was complaining and giving negative feedback) My children are not angels but they are pretty good kids and easy going. Our old daycare just loved them and hated leaving them.

I did call the county on her and did report her. They were going to pay her a visit. I also put in writing all the things that led up to us pulling them out without notice and sent that to the county worker that has her file.

It is just so frustrating. We could pay her and make it go away but it is the principle now.

Ok - as I was reading your original post, I was having flashbacks to my time in daycare and the lady that watched me and my brother did the same thing. I would get cold oatmeal for breakfast and if I didn't eat it (I hated it then), I would go hungry the whole day. She abused both of us.

Then I see you live in the same city as me (and where the daycare lady lived). Can I ask you a question - is her first name Carol?

I have honestly nothing to offer but ((((hugs)))). I have a young son in daycare and it scares the hell out of me to think of anyone hurting him phyiscally, mentally, etc. He is in a great place now where I love the teachers. It is in my building so I can pop in on him anytime I want.

If you need to PM me - go ahead....

 

[LynnTH]

Hi Minnesota. No, her name is not Carol and she is actually in Oakdale where we live. It is a scary thing. I know there are a lot of good providers out there (this wasn't one of them) and I think things happen for a reason. I believe the new daycare is going to be great. She is willing to bring my 4 year old to pre-school and pick her up each day as she is doing that for another 4 year old girl she has and also the boy up the street who is her son's good friend goes to my son's school (private church school). He is in 6th grade and he said he would come and get my 1st grader each day and walk with him to the bus stop. For me that is huge as I really worry about stuff like that. The kids liked it there when we intereviewed - we stayed almost 2 hours and they didn't want to leave (good sign). So, all in all it's a good thing this happened at this time and before schools starts but it is still frustrating and I get so angry and upset when I think of what she has done to my kids. I'm just glad they are out!!!

 

[Hillbeans]

I'm almost in tears reading these posts about kids being verbally abused or made to sit in a chair for hours because they don't eat their oatmeal/maltomeal.

This woman should not be watching children and I pray for the other kids being watched in her home.

Horrible.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

You may be on the hook for the money due to the contract. However, based on what you describe, I personally would fight her, even if it means going to court. Ask your preivous day care provider to be a witness for both you and your kids behavior. She may be entitled to her 2 weeks' pay, but not likely time off and so forth.

I'm glad you reported her, she sounds awful--actually, she sounds like my MIL, who pulled the old "sit there until you eat it" on my 5yo niece, when the child was with MIL because she'd been removed from her parents by CPS! I'm sorry, but I think that's mean on your best day, but when a child is yanked form Mom and Dad and sent to another state for their protection, it's not the time to play control with their food!

So, I would fight her on principle. you may lose, but you would also up the woman's profile with whatever system monitors her, and hopefully that will help other kids in the long run. Good luck!

 

[Minnesota!]

I am sorry you are going through these issues. But I really think the old provider doesn't have a leg to stand on. Her end of the contract wasn't fulfilled, either. I think any court will see that. Especially if the judge has kids themselves. This new place sounds GREAT! I hope you and the kids are very happy there and that you are able to laugh at the old provider when she loses

Small world...I just moved out of Oakdale last year :O) I lived on Helmo and 15th. We live in WBL now :O) And are *hopefully* moving back to Oakdale in the next 18 months. I miss it. *SIGH* And all that fabulous new shopping.

Sorry...I started dreaming!

 

[LynnTH]

Thanks for all the support guys. I needed that. And technically we only owe her 3 days. We had given her a week up front that was to be used for our last week in her care. We told her last Thursday and kids did not go Friday, which was already paid for. And a week or two before she had taken a day off without pay but we had already paid her. So, technically she is only entitled to 3 days (which I also wrote in her letter) So, if she wants to continue this for 3 days pay then let her - I will fight her on this just to prove a point that you can't operate a daycare like that.

And we have only been there 11 weeks and she has already had 7 days off with no pay and about 10 days off we did pay for.

 

[auntie k]

I was never for daycare with my DS (who is now 22!) but preferred to take him to individuals - but in retrospec, (sp?) I think he would have been much better off in a regular daycare.

I now take my niece to the onsite daycare here at my work and think it is the way to go! That way you have many other parents in and out on a daily basis to observe things like this happening. And there tends to be more workers who can watch them, and also report any abuse. Not to mention the fun things they do with lots of children to play with.

just a thought, sounds like you have an individual too and I encourage you to try a larger daycare - at your children's age, i bet they would love it.

 

[LynnTH]

That is so funny that you lived in Oakdale too Minnesota. We live between Tartan and Rainbow right off of Hadley on 6th Street. We were almost neighbors. I know what you mean about the shopping - lots of good stuff going up in Woodbury and it is just a mile down the road. Yipee!!

 

[Alicnwondrln]

maybe she needs to get out of daycare
if thatshow you are gonna treat your kids you should not be doing this for a living
i would not pay her either

 

[tuckerkeys]

ok
as a business owner i've taken many people to small claims court. i KNOW that if you take someone to court you are not allowed to get money from the defendant for work time lost etc etc and vice versa........IF she took you to court, it would be small claims court in your county. she would have to go there and file a claim against you for breech of contract. this is all done w/ certified mail. if you get this, you then send a detailed letter back, certified, to your county detailing YOUR side of the story (and include that contract!) . CLEARLY there is a breach of contract on her side by what she said she was going to do, and did not. ALSO you clearly felt your children were at harm by leaving them with her (not eating) so there is a justifiable excuse for not bringing them back to her. and she was verbally abusive to not just your kids, but others both you & family members have seen this. IF the court decides to hear this case, it goes into MEDIATION 1st, and there should be no fees associated with this. if she shows up, you guys battle it out in front of a lawyer intern of some type....most people who do make it into mediation 1 of the partys usually fails to show up, therefore it is an automatic judgement for the person who showed up no questions asked.... let her "take you to court" it seems as if she is trying to use this as a scare tactic. it is a lot harder to do than most people realize! and you have a rock solid reason for not bringing your babies back, or giving her 2 weeks...!!!

 

[gypsydoodlebug]

I'm extremely lucky to have my daycare. DD2 practically knocks us down to get in there every day. It's a big center with about 120 kids. We pay $151/week in KENTUCKY -- can't imagine what it would cost in a bigger city.

When I was about 4, my mother took me to a home daycare. The provider fed us peanut butter & jelly for a week straight and when I, playing Batman, pulled a sticker off her airconditioning unit to get to the bat-phone, she jerked my arm up and spanked me. She has several kids in her home at the time. I told my mother and she yanked my brother and I outta there so fast and reported her to the proper authorities. She lost her license...

I think you have to pick and choose your battles, and this is definitely one to fight. It's enough being a working parent -- you shouldn't feel even more guilty about what's going on when you can't be there and have no control over it. Please keep us informed.

 

[Minnesota!]

That is so funny that you lived in Oakdale too Minnesota. We live between Tartan and Rainbow right off of Hadley on 6th Street. We were almost neighbors. I know what you mean about the shopping - lots of good stuff going up in Woodbury and it is just a mile down the road. Yipee!!

You must live by the house that goes crazy at Christmas then :O) Yeah, I really miss it over there. We were just a hop skip and a jump to Tamarack Village and the nice Woodbury Sam's. The WBL one STINKS!!!!!!! Hoping by the time we are back out there, all the new shopping places will be open and ready for me to SPEND!!!

Well...if you have any other issues with the new place, let me know. I have a couple names of people I trust that do daycare....

 

[sunkissed212]

I worked in child care (adminstrative) for that last 6 years and I have seen all kinds of disputes over unpaid tuition bills, broken contracts, etc. You may indeed have to go to court but if you have good clear documentation of your case,she probably won't get anything out of it.

Regardless of how you choose to handle the money situation. I think you should call your state licensing bureau and have them check her out. If she is doing the things that you say she is, her license could (and should) easily be revoked. Good luck!

 

[disneymom3]

Oh my! I am just steaming here! I am from MN too and what that woman is doing is grounds for losing her license. I am an early childhood trainer, meaning I train childcare providers and have been in the field for over 15 years. You need to call the Department of Human Services and the daycare licensing office in her county and report all of this. Personally, I would also consider calling child protective services and reporting her there. Withholding food from a child is illegal. Now, she could have offerred him malt o meal for breakfast and it is his choice to not eat it, but withholding food later in the day is a huge huge violation! You can never do that for any reason at all!

As for her other behavior it is also completely illegal for her to have had your son sitting at the table all day. (Not to mention horrifying!) I am so appalled that she tried to serve him that maltomeal later in the day. This woman is downright cruel and should NOT be taking care of other people's children!

Let her try and take you to court--you can tell your story and then it will be public record. Please please please report this woman! The copy of the letter is not good enough. You NEED to file a formal complaint.