Increasing hotel costs everywhere except….

[HyperspaceMountainPilot]

Excess supply, I think a lot of people bought contracts to rent out points

I know there are a few people around here who talk about owning a ton of points and renting half to cover their dues, but I suspect that much of the excess rental points are coming from large brokers who bought points at what they thought were great prices before ROFR went away and are now holding a lot of points they don’t want to realize a loss on, so they are renting instead.

 

[sethschroeder]

I am curious as to what prices are being offered/paid.

What price are you seeing? I suspect that price is something I could have gotten at anytime over the past 3 years as well.

What some points are going for is really irrelevant to an owner and what they can sell them at. Not seeing any difference in the one group I just randomly checked.

If you treat your customers like garbage and insist on destroying the product they love, they leave.

My DVC points could be rented for the same price today as last year.

I am seeing prices roughly the same in other areas as well. I can stay at the local Hilton or our local resorts for roughly the same as last year and I can even get flights for less than a year ago. Yes none of these prices are normal prices but I book all personal travel around discounts not what the normal price is.

I can even get Haven Suites on NCL for less than last year for cruising as well. I just dont bite because of how cruising currently seems to be with full ships and reduced service. I also think prices will possibly go down even further as more people wake up to the economy and near future outlook.

Not saying Disney isn't destroying customer base its just not impacting DVC point rentals because the volume of the market is a tiny percentage of actual Disney goers and every year more people learn about DVC rental more than people who know about it leave behind Disney.

“Stock prices are rarely reflective of the actual value of a company these days.”

What?!? Ok, I’m now officially abandoning this thread.

They might have went overboard grouping in everyone but a number of big hitters have no correlation of company value its all about potential.

Potential is not value.

Its also why companies can have massive swings in stock price because there is no tangible numbers tied to the stock price itself its all about the potential. Heck you have companies running in the red worth a ton.

 

[emchen]

Perhaps naive but it would seem to me that when hotel prices go up in general the DVC rental prices would get dragged along with it to some extent

I wouldn’t call it naive, just incorrect.

David’s is, by far, the dominant player in this market. I don’t think it would be an exageration to call them the market-maker.

Private rentals are based on the $18pp for “premium” resorts (MK, and Epcot resorts, and non-WDW resorts); $16pp for the other resorts, that David pays owners. For renters, they charge $25pp and $23pp. Prior to the increase it was $23 and $21 respectively ($16 and $14 to owners).

This is a relatively recent adjustment up (I think within the past 24 months). Prior to the increase it stayed at $16 and $14pp for over 5 yrs I think (please correct me if I am wrong).

These rates will not change on a monthly or quarterly basis or even a yearly basis.

 

[Gr8scott]

I wouldn’t call it naive, just incorrect.

David’s is, by far, the dominant player in this market. I don’t think it would be an exageration to call them the market-maker.

Private rentals are based on the $18pp for “premium” resorts (MK, and Epcot resorts, and non-WDW resorts); $16pp for the other resorts, that David pays owners. For renters, they charge $25pp and $23pp. Prior to the increase it was $23 and $21 respectively ($16 and $14 to owners).

This is a relatively recent adjustment up (I think within the past 24 months). Prior to the increase it stayed at $16 and $14pp for over 5 yrs I think (please correct me if I am wrong).

These rates will not change on a monthly or quarterly basis or even a yearly basis.

I’m being offered $17/pt to rent as well as transfer ($1/pt less than 2023) for my 2024 pts through https://www.dvcstore.com and https://dvcrentalstore.com is paying $16/pt for 7-11 month bookings for my BLT points if I am not mistaken. Currently the only BLT listings they have listed are less than 7-months for $14/pt.

You referenced https://dvcrequest.com (David’s) increasing their payouts in the last 2-years to $18/pt and although at one point there were a few brokers here in the U.S. that were competitive, I can’t find any that haven’t reduced their payouts for my points (at best remained unchanged) with the exception of a select few resorts (BCV and VGC). 24-months is a long time during inflation.

During those same two years hotel prices have skyrocketed. Aside from noticing from my own hotel stay bills from both business and personal travel, the article below from Money.com written in February of this year claims a 54% increase in hotel prices since the same month in 2022. A simple Google search for “increased hotel prices” will result in loads of articles that will illustrate how increases in hotel prices have far outpaced the cost DVC rentals are going for.

Thanks to all that have responded with great info, but I think I’ll bow out of the thread at this point.

 

[Chuck S]

I’m being offered $17/pt to rent as well as transfer ($1/pt less than 2023) for my 2024 pts through https://www.dvcstore.com and https://dvcrentalstore.com is paying $16/pt for 7-11 month bookings for my BLT points if I am not mistaken. Currently the only BLT listings they have listed are less than 7-months for $14/pt.

You referenced https://dvcrequest.com (David’s) increasing their payouts in the last 2-years to $18/pt and although at one point there were a few brokers here in the U.S. that were competitive, I can’t find any that haven’t reduced their payouts for my points (at best remained unchanged) with the exception of a select few resorts (BCV and VGC). 24-months is a long time during inflation.

During those same two years hotel prices have skyrocketed. Aside from noticing from my own hotel stay bills from both business and personal travel, the article below from Money.com written in February of this year claims a 54% increase in hotel prices since the same month in 2022. A simple Google search for “increased hotel prices” will result in loads of articles that will illustrate how increases in hotel prices have far outpaced the cost DVC rentals are going for.

Thanks to all that have responded with great info, but I think I’ll bow out of the thread at this point.

I understand what you're saying, but, it is hard to directly compare hotel costs to DVC Point rentals. People my be willing to pay more for a hotel, several months out because they know they can get it refunded if they need to cancel vs most DVC rentals being non-refundable. And with Disney/DVC rentals there are other factors over hotel cost that potential renters are looking at right now. Not only the cost of the rental, but the overall cost of increasing food prices, Genie+, no Magical Express, increased ticket costs, increased airfare (my January round trip was a little less than $300 total, I just priced out my June airfare, in it is nearly $450...on SouthWest!), fluctuating gas prices, increasing credit card interest rates, and so forth. While none of these factors, individually, has much or an impact on DVC pricing, taken together, they are like individual straws on a camel's back. It's the perfect storm right now, given our current economy, and the
non-refundability of DVC rentals.

 

[emchen]

I’m being offered $17/pt to rent as well as transfer ($1/pt less than 2023) for my 2024 pts through https://www.dvcstore.com and https://dvcrentalstore.com is paying $16/pt for 7-11 month bookings for my BLT points if I am not mistaken. Currently the only BLT listings they have listed are less than 7-months for $14/pt.

You referenced https://dvcrequest.com (David’s)

I hope you aren’t bowing out because I disagreed with a single point in a well thought out analysis. I agree hotel prices are going up by a lot. I disagree that DVC rental prices should be dragged up along with it because DVC rental prices are, and appropriately so, tied to the price of Annual Dues.

resorts (BCV and VGC). 24-months is a long time during inflation.

During those same two years hotel prices have skyrocketed. Aside from noticing from my own hotel stay bills from both business and personal travel, the article below from Money.com written in February of this year claims a 54% increase in hotel prices since the same month in 2022. A simple Google search for “increased hotel prices” will result in loads of articles that will illustrate how increases in hotel prices have far outpaced the cost DVC rentals are going for.

Thanks to all that have responded with great info, but I think I’ll bow out of the thread at this point.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I’m being offered $17/pt to rent as well as transfer ($1/pt less than 2023) for my 2024 pts through https://www.dvcstore.com and https://dvcrentalstore.com is paying $16/pt for 7-11 month bookings for my BLT points if I am not mistaken. Currently the only BLT listings they have listed are less than 7-months for $14/pt.

You referenced https://dvcrequest.com (David’s) increasing their payouts in the last 2-years to $18/pt and although at one point there were a few brokers here in the U.S. that were competitive, I can’t find any that haven’t reduced their payouts for my points (at best remained unchanged) with the exception of a select few resorts (BCV and VGC). 24-months is a long time during inflation.

During those same two years hotel prices have skyrocketed. Aside from noticing from my own hotel stay bills from both business and personal travel, the article below from Money.com written in February of this year claims a 54% increase in hotel prices since the same month in 2022. A simple Google search for “increased hotel prices” will result in loads of articles that will illustrate how increases in hotel prices have far outpaced the cost DVC rentals are going for.

Thanks to all that have responded with great info, but I think I’ll bow out of the thread at this point.

I agree with you 100%.

 

[PrinceRaki]

I hope you aren’t bowing out because I disagreed with a single point in a well thought out analysis. I agree hotel prices are going up by a lot. I disagree that DVC rental prices should be dragged up along with it because DVC rental prices are, and appropriately so, tied to the price of Annual Dues.

I don't think it is tied to annual dues. Members pay thousands to be able to stay at the villas for a decent price and we don't have the obligation to pass that benefit to renters. Just like any other membership, why would non-members have to pay same price as members?
I only rent confirmed reservations and add a discount to disney rack rates, compare apples to apples. Renters get a room that's cheaper than disney direct prices, it shouldn't matter to them how many points, how much I paid for my points or my annual dues.

 

[emchen]

I don't think it is tied to annual dues. Members pay thousands to be able to stay at the villas for a decent price and we don't have the obligation to pass that benefit to renters. Just like any other membership, why would non-members have to pay same price as members?
I only rent confirmed reservations and add a discount to disney rack rates, compare apples to apples. Renters get a room that's cheaper than disney direct prices, it shouldn't matter to them how many points, how much I paid for my points or my annual dues.

I don’t disagree with your rationale. However, I think that is not really a significant contributor to the average rental prices in relation to the biggest DVC rental company David’s.

I am just stating my observation and opinion based on the observation (that David’s is the “market maker”. I could be wrong and often am. So take what I write for what it is, my opinion.