Increased flight security following attempted terrorist attack

[HeresYourEars]

Me too, I don't mind extra searches and taking of shoes etc however I don't see how making people sit down for the final hour will make the flight safer (it will be difficult to enforce, I have seen many people ignoring instructions on a flight when told it sit down when the seat belt sign is on), the person should of been stopped before boarding the flight.

I think everyone agrees that he should have been stopped before he boarded.

From my understanding, the final approach is a particularly tricky time for the pilot and the flight crew. Everyone's attention is supposed to be on ensuring the plane gets down safely, and that everyone on board is ready for whatever it takes to accomplish that.

If the TSB thinks everyone sitting down and being totally prepared will make things safer - I say so be it. Yes, it will be inconvenient. I'm willing to give up an hour of inconvenience to be even a bit more safe.

 

[ukstitch]

Me too, I don't mind extra searches and taking of shoes etc however I don't see how making people sit down for the final hour will make the flight safer (it will be difficult to enforce, I have seen many people ignoring instructions on a flight when told it sit down when the seat belt sign is on), the person should of been stopped before boarding the flight.

Agreed - people are already supposed to sit down with seatbelts on for the last 30 minutes or so anyway, as well as during take off, taxi and turbulence but I don't think I've ever seen the whole plane take notice of this

Most of all though - terrorists are not stupid people. They are likely to have a watch and I suspect most of them are already aware of the length of the flight, so will just get up and do their stuff an hour earlier than originally planned.

Plus - if the same thing that was attempted on Friday was repeated, then the "nothing in your lap" rule won't particularly help because it just needs a syringe concealed in the pocket and powder under trousers - both concealed without anything on your lap.

Personally, I think the most sensible way would be to bring in the full body xray scanners they are trialling at Manchester. With some clever programming, these could be developed to recognise a "standard" human body without the need for somebody looking at the screen and this would therefore significantly reduce the privacy concerns of children etc due to the fact that these scanners reveal the entire body. People flagged up would the be referred to for a closer inspection - perhaps have their photo checked my a person etc.

I appreciate that the above would then most likely trigger for people with prosthetic limbs, replacement joints etc (things that are not "normal"), but in my opinion this is a small inconvenience for something that would flag up a lot more issues that the current system ever will.

 

[wickesy]

Reports now are that the skymap has been isolated on Virgin so their IFE is working as normal, DS and PSP consoles and Ipods etc. will be allowed on the flight.

 

[HeresYourEars]

For those of you entering this country from outside, I'm for both scanning and staying in your seat for 30 minutes, an hour, or whatever it is. Also, checking your bags better.

Sorry, I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, especially when you're coming here on vacation and you just want to have a good time, but I think everything needs to be tightened up on international flights.

I would expect the same if I was travelling to your country.

As for the sitting-down rule not being able to be enforced, I wouldn't test that, especially right now.

I mean no disrespect to our British friends by writing my thoughts here. I hope things go smoothly for everyone coming to Orlando for a break.

 

[jen_uk]

On our last couple of flights skymap was not working anyway

I think the whole thing is madness, as everyone else has said all they would need is a watch and then they would approx know when they are flying over the USA, they could just do it on the descent into the airport. I would rather suffer the embarrassment of a body scan than have to sit bored for an hour.

 

[orlandothebeagle]

I'd go for that - get on the plane, fall asleep, wake up at destination. It's the closest to teleportation we are going to get for a while.

sounds good

What also has been reported is he was on some list but not the no fly list. It would make sense for these passengers to be properly searched if they are already on some sort of watch list. It is worrying that even when the security forces knew him he was still allowed to board like any other passenger.

I always wonder what security at Orlando parks are looking for as if anyone wanted to take something dodgy in they could just carry it on their person.

No doubt that would be violating his human rights

 

[orlandothebeagle]

For those of you entering this country from outside, I'm for both scanning and staying in your seat for 30 minutes, an hour, or whatever it is. Also, checking your bags better.

Sorry, I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, especially when you're coming here on vacation and you just want to have a good time, but I think everything needs to be tightened up on international flights.

I would expect the same if I was travelling to your country.

As for the sitting-down rule not being able to be enforced, I wouldn't test that, especially right now.

I mean no disrespect to our British friends by writing my thoughts here. I hope things go smoothly for everyone coming to Orlando for a break.

None taken.
We just want to be safe like everyone else.Lets face it if it bothered us that much we just wouldnt come, and I cant see that happening!

 

[ukstitch]

For those of you entering this country from outside, I'm for both scanning and staying in your seat for 30 minutes, an hour, or whatever it is. Also, checking your bags better.

Sorry, I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, especially when you're coming here on vacation and you just want to have a good time, but I think everything needs to be tightened up on international flights.

I would expect the same if I was travelling to your country.

As for the sitting-down rule not being able to be enforced, I wouldn't test that, especially right now.

I mean no disrespect to our British friends by writing my thoughts here. I hope things go smoothly for everyone coming to Orlando for a break.

As said above - no offence is taken. What I will say, however, is that your advice needs applying to all flights and not just international flights, because if anything, internals are more at risk (this applies to here in the UK as well). They also need applying to flights the world over and not just involving the USA.

Unfortunately though, unless everybody is made to sit in their seats for the entire duration of the flight and all hand luggage is banned, then any measures taken on the flight are (in my opinion) token measures to make things "feel" better, because there will always be a window of opportunity when these measures are not in place.

What is far more important (in my opinion) are much tighter controls before you even step foot on the plane, because (again in my opinion) once these people are on the plane, there is very little that can be done unless you are lucky (this incident is a perfect example - the only reason the plane landed was because luckily the explosives failed).

If it takes an extra 1 - 2 hours to board flights then so be it - people's lives are worth far far more than a couple of extra hours of everybody's time.

 

[disneyholic family]

sitting down, standing up, lying on one's side....whatever..
none of it matters...

what happened here was the US authorities dropped the ball...
just as they did in the case of Fort Hood, and as they did in the case of the world trade center..

in all 3 cases, there were warnings beforehand that were ignored or pooh poohed...

in this case, the father of the terrorist, a very influential man in Nigeria (the chairman of the main bank there), went to the US Embassy in nigeria and begged them to put his son on the no-fly list...
he warned them that his son had been radicalized and was planning something..
this was in november...
we are now in december..
how long does it take to put a name on a list, when the person is the father, a man who is well known and well respected, not some wacko trying to get control of his son..

the US dropped the ball...
it doesn't matter what the security measures are in the airport or anywhere else....when the authorities don't do the job assigned to them, it's all for naught.

and by the way, Janet napolitano, the head of US Homeland Security, said today that this was a success...
say what??????????? if this was a success, i would hate to see what she defines as a failure..

the only reason nothing happened was the device didn't ignite as it was supposed to and in addition there were some brave passengers and crew who put out the small fire that did result....

but had the device worked...well.....it was dumb luck.....and that's how she defines success...

doesn't instill much confidence...

 

[orlandothebeagle]

sitting down, standing up, lying on one's side....whatever..
none of it matters...

what happened here was the US authorities dropped the ball...
just as they did in the case of Fort Hood, and as they did in the case of the world trade center..

in all 3 cases, there were warnings beforehand that were ignored or pooh poohed...

in this case, the father of the terrorist, a very influential man in Nigeria (the chairman of the main bank there), went to the US Embassy in nigeria and begged them to put his son on the no-fly list...
he warned them that his son had been radicalized and was planning something..
this was in november...
we are now in december..
how long does it take to put a name on a list, when the person is the father, a man who is well known and well respected, not some wacko trying to get control of his son..

the US dropped the ball...
it doesn't matter what the security measures are in the airport or anywhere else....when the authorities don't do the job assigned to them, it's all for naught.

and by the way, Janet napolitano, the head of US Homeland Security, said today that this was a success...
say what??????????? if this was a success, i would hate to see what she defines as a failure..

the only reason nothing happened was the device didn't ignite as it was supposed to and in addition there were some brave passengers and crew who put out the small fire that did result....

but had the device worked...well.....it was dumb luck.....and that's how she defines success...

doesn't instill much confidence...

I agree,esp the success bit

 

[wideeyes]

For those of you entering this country from outside, I'm for both scanning and staying in your seat for 30 minutes, an hour, or whatever it is. Also, checking your bags better.

Sorry, I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, especially when you're coming here on vacation and you just want to have a good time, but I think everything needs to be tightened up on international flights.

I would expect the same if I was travelling to your country.

As for the sitting-down rule not being able to be enforced, I wouldn't test that, especially right now.

I mean no disrespect to our British friends by writing my thoughts here. I hope things go smoothly for everyone coming to Orlando for a break.

I am happy for scanning. I am also happy for hand luggage to be restricted to one small bag, at MCO it seemed like people had loads of hand luggage which made the job harder for security, less hand luggage should mean they have more time to search people.

I just think these measures on the flight would not stop an attack at that point though security, I don't think a terrorist would sit in his seat because they were told to. prevention needs to happen before the flight is boarded.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

For those of you entering this country from outside, I'm for both scanning and staying in your seat for 30 minutes, an hour, or whatever it is. Also, checking your bags better.

Sorry, I know this probably isn't what you want to hear, especially when you're coming here on vacation and you just want to have a good time, but I think everything needs to be tightened up on international flights.

I would expect the same if I was travelling to your country.

As for the sitting-down rule not being able to be enforced, I wouldn't test that, especially right now.

I mean no disrespect to our British friends by writing my thoughts here. I hope things go smoothly for everyone coming to Orlando for a break.

Sorry hearsyourears, but this is nonsense.
Where did the the 9/11 flights originate? overseas were they?
Why did your security services give this person who even his father had reported to your embassy that he was worried about his sons radicalism a visa? why did they not take notice of what his father had said?
How come he was not singled out for secondary screening?
Yet you expect the rest of us to have our rights trampled on with such ridiculous measures? So passengers have to sit still and not move when the aircraft reaches American soil? doesn't matter that an hour after takeoff from amsterdam he was over british soil eh? or that if he had set fire to the plane at 30,000 feet over the atlantic the devastation to the passengers would have been worse?
These stupid "security measures" which will have NO EFFECT on a terrorist attack, just so long as its not over American soil it seems.
Seriously, a cabin full of children wanting teh toilet, babys screamingb as their nappys are full, just because a single man with a one way ticket, being allowed into tyhe USA to attend a relegious meeting was not flagged byt USA security services as a potential threat????

New update, all phones must have their batteries removed, if you have an iphone, its has to go in your hold luggage as the battery cannot be removed. This would mean that if you bag is stolen/or theft from, then most insurances will not cover this.

By these ridiculous innefective measures, all that will happen is that less people will fly to the USA, less money for your service industries, more unemployment, just the effect Al Quaida wants. well done!

 

[ukstitch]

Where did you read about the phone batteries?

Does this extend to other devices - iPods, nintendo ds etc?

I assume the battery must go in the hold, otherwise it won't take a terrorist 1 minute to put the battery back in.

I mean no offense, but many of these rules seem like a knee jerk reaction and don't actually seem to have been well thought out as to how much good they will actually do to stop an attack.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Where did you read about the phone batteries?

Does this extend to other devices - iPods, nintendo ds etc?

I assume the battery must go in the hold, otherwise it won't take a terrorist 1 minute to put the battery back in.

I mean no offense, but many of these rules seem like a knee jerk reaction and don't actually seem to have been well thought out as to how much good they will actually do to stop an attack.

On the Virgin atlantic fans of forum on Facebook, a report from a passenger who was told by Virgin.

 

[jockey]

I reckon the airline should issue orange boiler suits or else we all go naked....then no risk

I am so peeved about this, we fly on 7 days with young kids etc it's such a pain

 

[disneyholic family]

New update, all phones must have their batteries removed, if you have an iphone, its has to go in your hold luggage as the battery cannot be removed. This would mean that if you bag is stolen/or theft from, then most insurances will not cover this.

WHAT?????????????????????????????
there is no way i'm putting my iphone into the luggage hold..
and forget about me, DH actually needs his for work - if it were to be stolen from his suitcase, he wouldn't be able to work...

how can they require something of such value being put into luggage that they KNOW isn't secure.....luggage that disappear or have things stolen from them...

 

[jockey]

WHAT?????????????????????????????
there is no way i'm putting my iphone into the luggage hold..
and forget about me, DH actually needs his for work - if it were to be stolen from his suitcase, he wouldn't be able to work...

how can they require something of such value being put into luggage that they KNOW isn't secure.....luggage that disappear or have things stolen from them...

Me too I am very annoyed about this

 

[HeresYourEars]

Sorry hearsyourears, but this is nonsense.
Where did the the 9/11 flights originate? overseas were they?
Why did your security services give this person who even his father had reported to your embassy that he was worried about his sons radicalism a visa? why did they not take notice of what his father had said?
How come he was not singled out for secondary screening?
Yet you expect the rest of us to have our rights trampled on with such ridiculous measures? So passengers have to sit still and not move when the aircraft reaches American soil? doesn't matter that an hour after takeoff from amsterdam he was over british soil eh? or that if he had set fire to the plane at 30,000 feet over the atlantic the devastation to the passengers would have been worse?
These stupid "security measures" which will have NO EFFECT on a terrorist attack, just so long as its not over American soil it seems.
Seriously, a cabin full of children wanting teh toilet, babys screamingb as their nappys are full, just because a single man with a one way ticket, being allowed into tyhe USA to attend a relegious meeting was not flagged byt USA security services as a potential threat????

New update, all phones must have their batteries removed, if you have an iphone, its has to go in your hold luggage as the battery cannot be removed. This would mean that if you bag is stolen/or theft from, then most insurances will not cover this.

By these ridiculous innefective measures, all that will happen is that less people will fly to the USA, less money for your service industries, more unemployment, just the effect Al Quaida wants. well done!

First of all, you sound angry. Kindly direct your anger toward the American authorities who are issuing and enforcing these new rules, not me. Sheesh.

Naturally, they should have acted on all of the tips about this particular passenger. No kidding.

All I said was that I have no problem obeying the new regulations, and that I think more air travel restrictions ought to be in place...whether that's here in and over this country, or in and over yours.

Yes it's a pain, yes it's inconvenient.

Hey, I was just voicing my opinion; that's allowed here, right?

 

[T16GEM]

So does this mean no laptops or other electronic battery operated devices on board?

We fly next Monday and I think it's going to be an absolute nightmare - I was hoping to rely on th DS and movies on the laptop to entertain the kids but maybe they will just have to spend the whole 9 hours moaning. Seems ridiculous to me, I would much rather spend some extra time in the airport getting checked or scanned or whatever it takes to ensure safety.

I have no issues with the scanners, full body or otherwise. Safety is more important than my modesty surely?

 

[ukstitch]

I'm hoping that somebody will publish the new flight security rules. At the moment it's very hit and miss and I'd be very annoyed if I was to turn up the airport with my laptop (no removable battery on it), be ordered to place it into the hold and then have it stolen from the luggage.