I'm trying so hard not to be "that" parent. Frustrated.

[Mariearistocat]

So, my 8year old DS is not the world's best student. He struggles with language related topics - spelling, grammar, reading, etc. He's already repeated first grade and is, I thought, doing pretty well in second. His math and science grades are always A's, spelling runs 85-95 most weeks, grammar is usually a low B, reading goes back and forth between A and B. School is VERY hard for him, he hates to sit still, so this has taken a lot of effort on his and our parts.

His teacher this year isn't my favorite. I don't dislike her, but she's definitely in the bottom 5 out of all the teachers we've had between him and his older brother (sophomore in high school). With that said, out of those 5, there's only 1 that I actively disliked (not this one). The other's just weren't as great as some we've had but were more than adequate at their jobs.

All year long she's been sending home notes, written in his daily planner where he can see them. They've always felt very nit-picky to me. Little things, like about his socks not matching (uniform, he was wearing long pants and they were both the same, allowed color) or he wrote his assignment with his notebook upside down (it was correct, just tell him to re-do it at home?). Now, we've gotten two notes since school started back in January questioning his readiness for 3rd grade. Why? He has terrible handwriting (they just switched to requiring all assignments in cursive after Christmas break) and apparently yesterday he had some difficulty with his math lesson. How do we jump from a kid that makes A's and B's, with math being his consistently highest grade to not ready for 3rd grade with one lesson?

Anyway, I'm just frustrated with her. We are supposed to talk after school this afternoon and I'm afraid I'll say something rude. It wouldn't be nearly as bad if she'd email me or put them in an envelope or something, but he sees them, they're written directly under his homework assignments in the planner.

Advice (or sympathy) is always appreciated.

My kids are teens now. The ONLY teacher I have never liked was one of my daughter's second grade teachers, it was horrible! I won't go into every incident but it was painful to watch. Meanwhile, her twin had the best teacher so it was really hard to watch the other one struggle. Up until that year and every year after, both have been on the same level academically. I bit my tongue (a lot) and we did the time and 3rd grade till now (middle school) has been wonderful. I think it's like life, sometimes you will have bad bosses and you just need to press on. Document everything in case it comes down to (and I hope it doesn't) affecting promotion to third grade. I feel for you!

 

[LovesTimone]

My socks don't match most days, either. I honestly thought he'd get by with it that one time, both socks were uniform appropriate, they just weren't the same sock. Live and learn I guess.

There are only 10 second graders at this school, so this is the only second grade class. I told him this morning that if he didn't like his current teacher, he needed to straighten up and do his work correctly this first time and with a better attitude or he'd be right back in her class next year.[/QUOTE]

One thing that I learned from when I was a kid, that parents just will take the word of the teacher, like its from the Gods themselves....
When I was school I had a troubling experience in the first grade with a teacher, and my mom and dad would not listen to what I was saying, Your teacher said this is what happen... so it must be true... Once they realized what I was telling them what was going on, was really going on.... they were sorry, and promised to listen and they did from then on...

DD had a issue with her teacher ( private school) in the first grade, she would get her work done, then pull out a book to read, while the other kids finished,(she was reading very very early), I got a note that she was disrupting the class without any explanation on what she was doing, so I went to school the next afternoon and met with her... she tells me that her reading was disrupting the class, I asked "was she talking... No" - "was she reading out loud... No" - "Is she up moving around the room disrupting others...No "- "I asked well what is she doing that is disruptive... when she is finished with her work, she quietly pulls out a book and starts reading"... I asked her was this her definition of what disruptive means... I could not get any where with her, so I went to the principal... the principle did not see an issue and actually encourage that option for the students.... My Solution - Another parent told me about a program that some of the other kids where participating and that our school took the school van over to another school for this program, So I set it up and had her tested for this program, and she got in....she spent half the day at her school and half the day at the other school in the program... it was the best decision that I ever made for her. I will say this is the same teacher who did not believe that kids might need to go to the bathroom at any time other than when she said or that they might have tummy troubles.... as well she took parts of several students lunches one day, as she deemed them unfit and not proper food, If I put it in there for her to eat, then it's okay Hummmm I am the parent Not you - It got very ugly... Every parent was in the office the next morning... It got very ugly


Sure kids will test you, and dislike a teacher... and try to get out of doing this or that...that's cause they are kids... Trust and Verify...Listen to your kids...I am that parent and I don't care what other people think, you are the champion and defender of your kids...

 

[kdonnel]

before going to the expense of hiring an attorney i would always suggest utilizing any local or state organizations such as special education ombudsman. a simple google search with the name of an individual state and 'special education resources' can provide a wealth of resources (and chapters local to an individual school district can be acutely aware of and prepared to deal with any potential misinformation/push back on the part of that district). there are minimum federal laws that states have to meet but individual states can have higher standards written into their state laws and educational codes which those of us in other states never dream exist (or just assume b/c it exists in our state it does everywhere else).

My wife has attended many IEP meetings. The ones where only the parents come the school runs all over them and the parents got no respect. The ones where they bring an advocat go a little better for the parents but they still get lots of push back from the school. The ones where an attorney comes with the parents go very differently. Suddenly accommodations are granted.

Sometimes the expense is required.

 

[cabanafrau]

In our area good attorneys will flat out recommend parents utilize local advocacy groups before spending the money on attorney fees. The advocacy groups are much better versed in meshing the needs with the regulations and dotting all of the I's and crossing the T's with the school districts. The advocacy groups are quite knowledgeable in knowing when it's time to bring in legal reinforcement.

 

[kdonnel]

In our area good attorneys will flat out recommend parents utilize local advocacy groups before spending the money on attorney fees. The advocacy groups are much better versed in meshing the needs with the regulations and dotting all of the I's and crossing the T's with the school districts. The advocacy groups are quite knowledgeable in knowing when it's time to bring in legal reinforcement.

I imagine it is very much regional.

Some school districts are going to lean towards doing the right thing despite the cost and others are going to lean towards fighting tooth and nail.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

My socks don't match most days, either. I honestly thought he'd get by with it that one time, both socks were uniform appropriate, they just weren't the same sock. Live and learn I guess.

There are only 10 second graders at this school, so this is the only second grade class. I told him this morning that if he didn't like his current teacher, he needed to straighten up and do his work correctly this first time and with a better attitude or he'd be right back in her class next year.

One thing that I learned from when I was a kid, that parents just will take the word of the teacher, like its from the Gods themselves....
When I was school I had a troubling experience in the first grade with a teacher, and my mom and dad would not listen to what I was saying, Your teacher said this is what happen... so it must be true... Once they realized what I was telling them what was going on, was really going on.... they were sorry, and promised to listen and they did from then on...

DD had a issue with her teacher ( private school) in the first grade, she would get her work done, then pull out a book to read, while the other kids finished,(she was reading very very early), I got a note that she was disrupting the class without any explanation on what she was doing, so I went to school the next afternoon and met with her... she tells me that her reading was disrupting the class, I asked "was she talking... No" - "was she reading out loud... No" - "Is she up moving around the room disrupting others...No "- "I asked well what is she doing that is disruptive... when she is finished with her work, she quietly pulls out a book and starts reading"... I asked her was this her definition of what disruptive means... I could not get any where with her, so I went to the principal... the principle did not see an issue and actually encourage that option for the students.... My Solution - Another parent told me about a program that some of the other kids where participating and that our school took the school van over to another school for this program, So I set it up and had her tested for this program, and she got in....she spent half the day at her school and half the day at the other school in the program... it was the best decision that I ever made for her. I will say this is the same teacher who did not believe that kids might need to go to the bathroom at any time other than when she said or that they might have tummy troubles.... as well she took parts of several students lunches one day, as she deemed them unfit and not proper food, If I put it in there for her to eat, then it's okay Hummmm I am the parent Not you - It got very ugly... Every parent was in the office the next morning... It got very ugly


Sure kids will test you, and dislike a teacher... and try to get out of doing this or that...that's cause they are kids... Trust and Verify...Listen to your kids...I am that parent and I don't care what other people think, you are the champion and defender of your kids...[/QUOTE]

I had almost the same conversation - word for word - with my older son's 2nd grade teacher except instead of reading, she was complaining that he wasn't sitting in his chair with both feet on the ground. I don't know why, but neither one of us is capable of doing so, he got it from me. Luckily, she was an awesome teacher who we both really liked and we were both giggling by the end of the conversation once she realized how silly she sounded. Sounds like you had a doozy.

I also had a similar conversation that did not go as well with younger DS's public school teacher. After he came home and told me one day that he was really bad at moving his color chart clip up, but really good at moving it to red I called her and asked what he was doing that was so bad he needed to be on red all the time. Her biggest complaint? She didn't like that she had to repeat directions more than once and that he didn't listen when she was talking (hello, he doesn't hear well, we told her that repeatedly). So I asked, is he being disruptive to the class? No. Is he being rude when you ask him to do something? No. Is he preventing the kids around him from doing what you ask? No. That was the first and only time I've ever told a teacher to stop disciplining my child. I was so glad to hear that she was moving away after that year. I hope she had time to rethink her career choice before finding another teaching job.

As for always believing the teacher - my first grade teacher was SATAN. She tormented me and encouraged the other kids to do so as well and essentially set me up for an entire school career of being bullied and tortured (private prek - 12 school, most of the kids in my first grade class were in my graduating class). My mother still to this day (40 years later) adores this woman and considers her a friend. She always comments on how sick I was that year - I had constant stomach problems. I've quit trying to convince her why.

 

[cabanafrau]

I imagine it is very much regional.

Some school districts are going to lean towards doing the right thing despite the cost and others are going to lean towards fighting tooth and nail.

It's a chess match here -- with a swift and sure goalie included on the side of the school districts doing their darndest not to let students slip through into requiring special services or accommodations. Advocacy groups have a lot of experience at parrying and finessing right past the goalie.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP here again,

I've slept on this, had a conversation with both the teacher and DS (separately). I think I can better answer what's going on here.

If it was grammar that he was having to re-do I'd be a little more sympathetic since he does struggle with that, but yesterday it was clocks and penmanship.

I have now seen a few more of these comments... as I had posted, wanting to be unswayed by any of the replies....
But, the comments that I just noticed, from the original post that was quoted in the post above... Seeing these words in that original post would concern me.
OP, I do hope that you are learning a lot and progressing in your outlook and your take on how to move forward in a way that will be most helpful and successful with your son.

With my son, very clearly, CLOCKS and PENMANSHIP were two things that were almost impossible, due to his diagnosed disability.
These would have been very clear accommodations and modifications (and hopefully extra assistance) on any IEP for his visual processing issues and associated deficit in mathematical reasoning skills.
If you would like to know more about this, and why this is an issue, you can send me a PM.....

You can possibly put on the pressure, twist his arms into pretzels, and have 100 'come to Jesus' talks.... and that will do nothing but add to the problem.
You can't get blood from a rock.

 

[cabanafrau]

I have now seen a few more of these comments... as I had posted, wanting to be unswayed by any of the replies....
But, the comments that I just noticed, quoted in the post above... Seeing these words in that original quoted post would concern me.
OP, I do hope that you are learning a lot and progressing in your outlook and your take on how to move forward in a way that will be most helpful and successful with your son.

With my son, very clearly, CLOCKS and PENMANSHIP were two things that were almost impossible, due to his diagnosed disability.
These would have been very clear accommodations and modifications (and hopefully extra assistance) on any IEP for his visual processing skills and associated mathematical reasoning skills.
If you would like to know more about this, and why this is an issue, you can send me a PM.....

You can possibly put on the pressure, twist his arms into pretzels, and have 100 'come to Jesus' talks.... and that will do nothing but add to the problem.
You can't get blood from a rock.

Not sure if you saw the earlier comment or not, but OP had indicated that clocks were something her son mastered early.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Cabanafrau, I don't want to disagree or argue with you...
I know better than that.
She did say that he could 'read clocks'.... And it might have seemed so,
That does not change my comments AT ALL.
But, I do, in fact, know what I am talking about here. From a lot of personal experience, research, and knowledge.

At this point, I will add that the reversals and confusions, such as 'b' and 'd'... and the difficulty writing letters/numbers correctly, that involve curves... such as '3's and 'S's... are also a sign of these visual processing issues.

OP, You might want to look up 'crossing the mid-line'.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

I have now seen a few more of these comments... as I had posted, wanting to be unswayed by any of the replies....
But, the comments that I just noticed, quoted, in the post above... Seeing these words would concern me.
OP, I do hope that you are learning a lot and progressing in your outlook and your take on how to move forward in a way that will be most helpful and successful with your son.

With my son, very clearly, CLOCKS and PENMANSHIP were two things that were almost impossible, due to his diagnosed disability.
These would have been very clear accommodations and modifications (and hopefully extra assistance) on any IEP for his visual processing skills and associated mathematical reasoning skills.
If you would like to know more about this, and why this is an issue, you can send me a PM.....

You can possibly put on the pressure, twist his arms into pretzels, and have 100 'come to Jesus' talks.... and that will do nothing but add to the problem.
You can't get blood from a rock.

I would be inclined to agree with you except that clocks are not impossible for him, he's been doing them since kindergarten with no problems. When I made him redo the worksheet at home yesterday, he sat down and did it in 5 minutes with no problem. Same with the penmanship, when he's on his handwriting is beautiful and he prefers cursive to print. When he's in a hurry or doesn't want to do something, it's not. Math isn't the subject he struggles with, its the one he excels in, that's why I'm more inclined to think this is a "I don't like you, I'm mad, I'm not going to do what you want" issue. I know my child well enough to know he is more than capable of acting this way. He does it at home when I tell him to do something he doesn't want to do. So, in this case I felt that a strong reminder that if he doesn't want to re-do his work, he needs to do it right the first time was in order.



If the issue on Monday had been with grammar, spelling, or reading then yes I'd be taking a different approach and I'd be more inclined to believe he was struggling and shut down because he was frustrated. In that case I would have had a very different conversation with him, perhaps one about making sure he communicates to his teacher that he doesn't understand the assignment and could she maybe explain it to him again. Something along those lines. I know what my child is capable of and where he struggles. Shutting down and refusing to communicate is never the appropriate response.

 

[DopeyDame]

I learned something new today.

In addition to calling the psychologist, after I saw your post I thought maybe it wouldn't hurt to check with the city schools and see if they could evaluate him also. Figured it couldn't hurt to have 2 opinions. According to the head of special education, our local school district won't evaluate him, since the private school is physically located in a different district. We would have to go to the neighboring school district to have it done. She also confirmed without me asking and without directly saying it, what I already knew, that even if he tests as learning disabled, they would take grades and performance into account as to what services he would receive - in other words, if he isn't failing there isn't a lot of support they can give him. Especially if we are relying on the neighboring school district for support, which we would be unless we re-enrolled him in our district.

Guess we'll stick with the private evaluation for now.

I just want to echo the comments that others have said that it's worth calling the other district and going through the process of having him evaluated. It's free, and will - at the very least - provide a second opinion/sanity check for any private testing you do. And who knows, maybe he'll get some useful services.

Also, to clarify, districts can take grades and performance into account, but that doesn't mean that a kid needs to be failing. Rather, it means that their grades and performance have to be lower than what would be expected given their intelligence and strengths/weaknesses. So, for example, a kid with an IQ of 150 who is struggliing to get Bs on grade level work would qualify, because given the high IQ, you'd expect on-grade level work to be easy. On the other hand, a kid with an IQ of 90 who was getting Cs with on-grade level work might not qualify, because they're performing as you would expect given their strengths. So yes, they'll take his grades into account, but it's one piece of the puzzle. (Note that this is WAY oversimplified, and I'm using IQ as a stand in for any number of evaluations, but hopefully you get the idea.)
One of DS's teacher's described Learning Disabilities as "a weakness in a sea of strengths" So testing is designed both to identify the weaknesses, but also the general "sea level" of a child.

All that said, from what you've described, part of me thinks you may have a wonderfully average and awesome child who just has a crappy second grade teacher... that happens too sometimes.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

Cabanafrau, I don't want to disagree or argue with you...
I know better than that.
She did say that he could 'read clocks'.... And it might have seemed so,
That does not change my comments AT ALL.
But, I do, in fact, know what I am talking about here. From a lot of personal experience, research, and knowledge.

At this point, I will add that the reversals and confusions, such as 'b' and 'd'... and the difficulty writing letters/numbers correctly, that involve curves... such as '3's and 'S's... are also a sign of these visual processing issues.

OP, You might want to look up 'crossing the mid-line'.

I do appreciate your concern. We have an appointment in a couple of weeks with a private evaluator to get things started. Hopefully we'll be able to get some answers at that point.

Crossing the midline is interesting, I'll check some of his papers to see how his writing looks from one side to the other.

 

[DLgal]

My wife has attended many IEP meetings. The ones where only the parents come the school runs all over them and the parents got no respect. The ones where they bring an advocat go a little better for the parents but they still get lots of push back from the school. The ones where an attorney comes with the parents go very differently. Suddenly accommodations are granted.

Sometimes the expense is required.

HA! Not the meetings for my kids! I have gone to no less than 30 IEP meetings , alone, for my 2 kids over the years. I made a decision early on to read up on sp.ed laws and learned my rights as a parent. I can be very direct, blunt (some might call me a "B"), and I don't budge when it comes to my kids. However, I also know how to strike the right balance with the IEP team and administrators so that they LIKE me and want to help. Seriously, I am not great at social skills, but I have a sense of humor and know how to time a joke and make people laugh. I also know to how be respectful and negotiate very successfully. We do live in a great district that usually does the right thing the first time, but I had to get more assertive regarding placements for my kids into HS and MS this year that went against what the district first proposed, BUT I had the teams on my side, fighting for my kids, and in the end, we got what they needed without much fuss. I have called out district program heads, at meetings, to their faces, about instances of discrimination, and asked them to explain themselves. Last meeting for my son, I disagreed with a recommendation they wanted to implement (pulling him from 9th grade biology to add an additional period of life skills) and the resolution came in my favor, after I very passionately defended my sons right to have access to the science curriculum, even though the only science classes are college prep level and he requires curriculum modifications to be able to pass the class. It is not our fault that they do not offer a lower level science class, so they need to do some work to make the one they have accessible. And they agreed that they have an obligation to do so.

I have been told numerous times by various teachers and school psychologists that I should become an advocate for other parents navigating this system, because I am one of the parents who "knows how to do it right." That makes me sad, because it shouldn't take a certain kind of personality to be able to get services for your kid, or to be able to "work the system." Furthermore, not everyone can afford an attorney. We can't! That's why I decided I would be my own advocate, attorney, etc.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

All that said, from what you've described, part of me thinks you may have a wonderfully average and awesome child who just has a crappy second grade teacher... that happens too sometimes.

That's what I'm hoping.

In the teacher's defense, I don't think she's necessarily a bad teacher. We've had bad teachers, she isn't it. She does seem concerned and wants to help him succeed. I don't like the notes being in his planner. If she'd email me or call me directly I'd probably never have started this thread. Hopefully they'll stop, we haven't had any more so far, and I will say that when I talk to her in person, she makes sure to always start with something positive about him, so she isn't all complaints and negativity.

 

[cabanafrau]

Cabanafrau, I don't want to disagree or argue with you...
I know better than that.
She did say that he could 'read clocks'.... And it might have seemed so,
That does not change my comments AT ALL.
But, I do, in fact, know what I am talking about here. From a lot of personal experience, research, and knowledge.

At this point, I will add that the reversals and confusions, such as 'b' and 'd'... and the difficulty writing letters/numbers correctly, that involve curves... such as '3's and 'S's... are also a sign of these visual processing issues.

OP, You might want to look up 'crossing the mid-line'.

I wasn't trying to argue with you. You've made comments about not reading other comments, then commented about reading some comments. I merely pointed out something you might have missed.

I have no idea whether you're on the right track or not. I've refrained from making suggestions because I'm not actually clear on the situation. OP is clearly doing her best to flesh it out, it's complex. I respect that and don't see the value in attempting to equate this to anything else on the basis of incomplete observations across a keyboard.

 

[cabanafrau]

That's what I'm hoping.

In the teacher's defense, I don't think she's necessarily a bad teacher. We've had bad teachers, she isn't it. She does seem concerned and wants to help him succeed. I don't like the notes being in his planner. If she'd email me or call me directly I'd probably never have started this thread. Hopefully they'll stop, we haven't had any more so far, and I will say that when I talk to her in person, she makes sure to always start with something positive about him, so she isn't all complaints and negativity.

Some of the comments in the planner went way over the line in my view. Hopefully this teacher has her eyes opened about the damage some of the comments can do to emerging self esteem, self confidence and belief in one's own abilities. No matter if a child has disabilities or is simply a beat behind on a concept in the moment, trampling all over a person's understanding of their talents and abilities does not promote education and learning.

 

[jaybirdsmommy]

I wasn't trying to argue with you. You've made comments about not reading other comments, then commented about reading some comments. I merely pointed out something you might have missed.

I have no idea whether you're on the right track or not. I've refrained from making suggestions because I'm not actually clear on the situation. OP is clearly doing her best to flesh it out, it's complex. I respect that and don't see the value in attempting to equate this to anything else on the basis of incomplete observations across a keyboard.

Thank you, it is complex and I am trying. This kid is like nothing I've ever dealt with before. He's night and day from my oldest. I appreciate all suggestions and all the advice I've gotten here. The main benefit of this thread has been the subtle (and not so subtle) pushing to have him tested. The private appointment has been made and I'm still trying to decide about allowing the school system to do one as well.

 

[DLgal]

OP, have you considered that your child *may* have a mild case of Oppositional Defiant Disorder. I know a bit about it because I have a friend whose child has that condition who was a classmate of my youngest son for several years in early elementary. My sister also has a student this year in K who has this diagnosis. It can present only in one setting, like at school. Kids with this tend to challenge authority figures and be non compliant with demands and generally present as "difficult", but it can come and go and be very mild or very severe. Symptoms usually begin around preschool-Kindergarten age. Often these kids also have some type of learning disability, ADHD, or anxiety/depression.

Not trying to diagnose your child, but a lot of your comments regarding your son not choosing to do his work because he doesn't like the teacher, as well as your experiences sometimes at home when he does the same, sort of raises that red flag. Kids can certainly have opinions about people, but young kids should not necessarily be challenging authority in a way that allows them to get out of doing expected work. That is called "escaping behavior" and isn't typical in a situation where the child isn't in danger or being directly threatened. At school, kids are expected to respect their teachers and do the work that is assigned to them, in a timely way, with minimal disruption. If your son is having difficulty with this very basic requirement of all students, THAT may be why the teacher feels like he is "not ready" to move to the next grade. But, if he is acting this way because he has this condition, all the talks in the world won't make a difference...he needs a different approach and possibly treatment (therapy, medication) in order to overcome how his brain is telling him to behave.

I hope the evaluations give you some more insight into what is going on so that you can figure out the best way to help your son succeed and begin to enjoy school.

 

[cabanafrau]

Thank you, it is complex and I am trying. This kid is like nothing I've ever dealt with before. He's night and day from my oldest. I appreciate all suggestions and all the advice I've gotten here. The main benefit of this thread has been the subtle (and not so subtle) pushing to have him tested. The private appointment has been made and I'm still trying to decide about allowing the school system to do one as well.

That's the rub with parenting. You think you get a grasp on something with the first and feel like you can handle it with the second. Then wouldn't you know it, the second has the nerve to turn around and be different, go in a different direction, and we're left feeling like the clueless parent yet again. Been there, done that, have a closet full of t-shirts.

Best of luck to you and your son.