I'm getting a puppy! -update page 6

[MommyPoppins]

MommyPoppins: Although Brewster doesn't stay outside he does his business outside. Dante is strictly a inside dog. It's one of the reasons on how I keep his white coat so white. He's never been so he's not missing anything. Think about training the pom to go in a box. It's sooooo easy. Dante well his business is soooo little.
I buy a case of plastic bags at our local store and each time he goes, I just tie up in the bag. I have one of those silver garbage cans that you step on to open and toss the tied bag in. No smell !! My son takes Brewster out and everytime he's says why can't you go like Dante. Now we live in NY where it's COLD. Congrats on getting a puppy. Listen to the breeder as I think she can give you the best advice.

The breeder also mentioned teaching her to use a box. I guess it's no different than having a cat. But I just don't know where I would put one, can't you just see the baby playing in it. I sure can. He's been getting trash out of the trash can all day. I figured that I would just take her right out the back door off the deck where it's nice a grassy... ahh I just don't know. How do you go about training them to go in a box?

 

[MommyPoppins]

Congrats on your new puppy.

Did she come with a limited registration? What kind of contract did she come with? Are you required to spay her within the next year? What health clearances were done on the parents?

Just curious, as my son is currently researching the different toys.

Here is a quote from the website:

All puppies come with a one year health guarantee against genetic defects unless otherwise specified. Our puppies have all shots including extra protection against Parvo-Virus. They are well socialized to be with other dogs and their new human family. Our puppies require lots of love and attention, just like they receive here. We love them for the first 8 weeks of their lives and let the new adoptive family love them for the rest of their lives. Priority is given to " pet homes" with a spay/ neuter contract. We occassionally allow our blood lines to be bred, but we have worked hard to acheive the high quality of all of our dogs and try to keep our bloodlines in the purest state. Occassionally we will have a reduced price on one of our puppies if there is a known problem, such as not perfectly marked, the puppy comes with the same health guarantee unless otherwise specified. We prefer a spay/neuter agreement with all puppies we sell.

HTH

 

[VSL]

So, hang on, these people can tell you that once you have the puppy you're not allowed to let it breed?

I mean, what would happen if it 'accidentally' got pregnant..?
And what if you wanted to cross breed your puppy?

I don't understand.. it's not as if you're selling it then under their 'companies' name.

I just don't agree with that stipulation. It should be up to the owner what happens to the dog, not the previous owner.

Not bashing the OP (as the OP is the buyer, not the seller), but why should it be up to the seller what you do once you've got your pup?

I would NOT be happy with that at all.

 

[budbeerlady]

We got our Oscar (mini dauschound) with the same sort of agreement. It cuts down on the breeding competition and we actually got him for $100 less when we agreed he was to be nutered. We never intended to have puppys, that is why we chose a male dog. We love having a little dog. We have a lab outside and my little guy in the house, I like it that he has a big bark but I can pick him up and move him.

 

[VSL]

But what about people who are just uncomfortable with having their dog spayed/neutered?

The whole affair just rubs me up the wrong way (and OMG I cannot believe I just used that phrase.. if I said that out loud to my BF he would be like 'what?!'!).
I wonder what breeders in the UK say though.. I s'pose those are the ones I should be concerned about!

 

[Aimeedyan]

But what about people who are just uncomfortable with having their dog spayed/neutered?

The whole affair just rubs me up the wrong way (and OMG I cannot believe I just used that phrase.. if I said that out loud to my BF he would be like 'what?!'!).
I wonder what breeders in the UK say though.. I s'pose those are the ones I should be concerned about!

People who have a pet quality pet should not breed it.

People who do not do medical and genetic testing should not be breeding.

People who do not work with a professional breeder should not be breeding.

People who breed to make money should not be breeding.

People who do not have a show quality purebred should not be breeding.

MILLIONS of animals are killed each year because ordinary people are stupid enough to breed their animal. MILLIONS. That's why REPUTABLE breeders realize that every Tom, Dick and Harry should not be breeding animals. That's why reputable breeders require their pet quality animals to be fixed so they are not accidently or purposely bred. Reputable breeders realize that they are selling pet quality animals that should NOT be bred.

Those who don't want to fix their animal should educate themselves as they don't understand the health issues with an intact animal. The risk of cancer is almost guaranteed. The temperment issues cause many intact animals to be given away or abandoned. Living with an intact animal is NOT fun and they don't make the best family pets.

Responsible pet owners are educated on the health of their pet and choose to fix them. For the pet's sake and for the family's sake.

 

[always quiet]

Congrats on getting a Pom!! We got one from the local humane society in Sept. of '04 and he is the most pleasant, socialable thing. I have never seen an aggressive, tempermental bone in his body and he is great around the kids....and the cat....and the rabbit....

 

[Nana Annie]

Another reason 99% of reputable breeders will put a spay/neuter clause in their contract for pet quality pups is that it is their reputation on the line. Sure, the puppy now belongs to the new owner, but the breeding that went into that puppy is the breeder's life work. Something they would like to protect.

They have spent years and years researching the best matchings, spending more money than they could ever make selling puppies on health clearances, showing, breeding, etc. They have knowledge about the genetics, are experts on the temperaments of the dogs behind in the pedigrees, etc.

For example, let's say that the breeder has worked diligently over numerous generations to create a puppy with a very stable, family friendly temperament. Their livelihood is based on their reputation that their dogs not only have great conformation, free from genetic defects, but also have even, stable temperaments.

Now factor in the popularity of the breed, such as the pom listed here. (It happens in all "popular" breeds). The pom is one of the darlings of the puppy mill and backyard breeders - being cranked out to pet shops without any regard to temperament, breeding, health issues, etc. This accounts for so many reports of Poms being snappy, temperamental, fearful, etc. And all of these poorly bred samples of bad temperament, bad health etc, are sold with no restrictions on breeding.

So, the new owner, decides to breed their new dog to the cute pet store pom down the street. Being naive, the new owner has no idea why the two should breed - never putting all the research and money into the breeding that the breeder would. Maybe it was for the "children to witness the birth." Or they want a puppy just like their Precious. So they breed the two. The puppies will now carry the all the breeders hard work and ethics on their pedigree. But because the puppies are half puppy mill, they can now have bad tempers, bad conformation, etc. This, at minimum, could reflect badly on the type of puppies being bred by the original breeder, and at worst (if the litter bites someone) could destroy everything the breeder has worked for.

So, when you are buying a puppy, you are not only buying the actual puppy, but the knowledge, hard work and wisdom of the breeder that put that puppy on the ground. This goes for a reputable breeder right down to the backyard breeder or puppy mill. Just in the case of the BYB/puppy mill, you are buying the lack of detail to attention for the breeding.

If the breeder thinks that the puppy is not up to the standards of breeding, then they will put a spay/neuter claus in the contract. They don't want the owner to take a sub-standard specimen of the breed (although a wonderfully good, sweet, and better bred than most dogs) and have it become the foundation stock for a backyard breeder. No responsible breeder would let their puppies live that life. If the puppy were breeding quality, they would either have kept the puppy, or sold it on a different kind of contract.

If you intend to breed, there are certainly puppies out there to purchase. But they will cost you much more than a pet quality puppy. And you will have to agree to the standard testings (hip clearances, cerf, etc) You will also have to agree to show the puppy to make sure that other experts in the breed think the dog is a one of the best representatives of the breed.

And I want to add that I don't think the OP is intending to breed. I just used the Pom example because her breeder DID include a spay/neuter claus in the contract.

 

[Crankyshank]

People who have a pet quality pet should not breed it.

People who do not do medical and genetic testing should not be breeding.

People who do not work with a professional breeder should not be breeding.

People who breed to make money should not be breeding.

People who do not have a show quality purebred should not be breeding.

MILLIONS of animals are killed each year because ordinary people are stupid enough to breed their animal. MILLIONS. That's why REPUTABLE breeders realize that every Tom, Dick and Harry should not be breeding animals. That's why reputable breeders require their pet quality animals to be fixed so they are not accidently or purposely bred. Reputable breeders realize that they are selling pet quality animals that should NOT be bred.

Those who don't want to fix their animal should educate themselves as they don't understand the health issues with an intact animal. The risk of cancer is almost guaranteed. The temperment issues cause many intact animals to be given away or abandoned. Living with an intact animal is NOT fun and they don't make the best family pets.

Responsible pet owners are educated on the health of their pet and choose to fix them. For the pet's sake and for the family's sake.

My thoughts exactly!! Reputable breeders breed because they have an excellent example of the species and want to protect/preserve the breed standard. Not because they think the world should be filled with that breed so everyone can have one

I'm also having red flags raised about a breeder that will transport their puppies via airplane to someone they have not met or extensively checked. and I've never seen "extra parvo protection" advertised either. That raises huge red flags with me.

 

[mrsv98]

So, hang on, these people can tell you that once you have the puppy you're not allowed to let it breed?

I mean, what would happen if it 'accidentally' got pregnant..?
And what if you wanted to cross breed your puppy?

I don't understand.. it's not as if you're selling it then under their 'companies' name.

I just don't agree with that stipulation. It should be up to the owner what happens to the dog, not the previous owner.

Not bashing the OP (as the OP is the buyer, not the seller), but why should it be up to the seller what you do once you've got your pup?

I would NOT be happy with that at all.

We have the same clause in our contract for our Lab we will bring home next month. The way I look at it is, it cuts down on backyeard breeders and helps control the pet population. If you don't like the stipulation, you can go elsewhere. Unfortunately, there are many breeders who don't care enough to try adn limit the number of dogs in one area.

 

[Am_I_There_Yet]

But what about people who are just uncomfortable with having their dog spayed/neutered?

Out of curiousity, why would it make you uncomfortable?

 

[Am_I_There_Yet]

Responsible pet owners are educated on the health of their pet and choose to fix them. For the pet's sake and for the family's sake.

 

[Nana Annie]

:
I'm also having red flags raised about a breeder that will transport their puppies via airplane to someone they have not met or extensively checked. and I've never seen "extra parvo protection" advertised either. That raises huge red flags with me.

And one that had a female available at less than a week's notice. And one that states on their website that a spay/neuter contract is "preferred" rather than "required." Sounds like a backyard breeder to me.

Also, shipping such a small toy puppy in the dead of winter raises red flags with me too. Since small puppies like that are able to be carried in a sherpa on board, most breeders I know would insist the new owner fly out (it is usually cheaper to get a person ticket than to ship a crate), pick up the puppy and transport it home under the seat of the airplane. Small puppies like that are prone to losing too much body heat in the winter to safely ship cargo.

 

[srfrgrl07]

SrFgrl07: The fact that we were getting a puppy from another state and our dog hadn't been around alot of dogs had me concerned. Our dog was really needy. We think he was abused before we got him from the shelter. He was 8 months old when we got him. First I googled. May sound weird but I had him tested for social skills. I was able to observe him through a window, There was no charge. Chris took down all background info first then slowly one by one introduced him to a dog to see how he would react. He was looking to see if he had any AGGRESSION in him at all. He had none. Brewster wen't to doggie day care for 4 hours a day 3 times a week for 4 weeks. The cost was 15.00 a day.
Now if you know your dog doesn't have aggression and is used to being around other dogs then your one step ahead of me. You introduce your dog away from the house. It has to be done slowly. I couldn't do that so Chris said I could do it in the garage which I did. I had puupy in crate at first they sniffed then I let out. Do not have on leash. When brought in house puppy was in crate again, repeat process.They must do on own with instict. Brewster is pack leader and knows he is a puppy but will let him know when he doesn't wan't to be bothered. He has never hurt him and they are best buddies. They play GREAT together. My bigfgest problem is keeping Dante out of Brewster's food and Brewster out of puppy food. The place I took them to is the place where I board Brewster and train Dante. Sorry so long.

Thanks so much-that is helpful. I received an email from the foster mom today for the other dog and she is going to bring him to our house soon. If the house visit goes well, he stays! Griffin should be fine, as he has allowed other dogs in the house numerous times before when our friends bring their pets over. The new dog has been around other dogs already, so should be great!

 

[Crankyshank]

Also please introduce the puppy to the resident dog on neutral territory to prevent any additional stress. If you look online there are many sites that give information on the proper way to introduce them. Here's one example

http://www.cuhumane.org/topics/dogdog.html

 

[Nana Annie]

Found the OP's breeder by googling the "extra-parvo" and pomeranian. Definitely looks like a "breeder" I wouldn't do business with. Multiple breeds and Numerous, numerous dogs of each breed - not just a few like the OP said. From the amount of dogs they are breeding - in my opinion - I would lump it right up there with a puppy mill. Or a very, very busy backyard breeder.

Right now, according to the website, they have 2 cocker litters, 2 eskie litters and 2 pom litters on the ground. And only 1 cocker puppy was AKC registered. Everything else was puppymill registered. They also breed Cavaliers and something else. ALL the reputable breeders I know wouldn't think of having more than 1 litter, perhaps 2 in one year.

The website looks great - stating that they have all sorts of "champions." But they are all APRI (or American Pet Registry) champions - a registry for petshop dogs. But not a single AKC champion to be found.

Guess there were reasons red flags were popping up all over the place!

 

[srfrgrl07]

Nevermind

 

[Crankyshank]

I'm guessing that this was for me....although it is applicable to the OP as well.

I actually thought that we would go and pick up the dog where he is being fostered, and take our current dog with us. I guess since they prefer to do a home visit (and we are probably about 2 hrs away) they figured this was the best method.

Thanks for the link...I will discuss it with the foster mom and make sure that they are "properly introduced."

Actually it was for the OP.

 

[Crankyshank]

Found the OP's breeder by googling the "extra-parvo" and pomeranian. Definitely looks like a "breeder" I wouldn't do business with. Multiple breeds and Numerous, numerous dogs of each breed - not just a few like the OP said. From the amount of dogs they are breeding - in my opinion - I would lump it right up there with a puppy mill. Or a very, very busy backyard breeder.

The website looks great - stating that they have all sorts of "champions." But they are all APRI (or American Pet Registry) champions - a registry for petshop dogs. But not a single AKC champion to be found.

Guess there were reasons red flags were popping up all over the place!

I believe I also found the site ITA - it looks like a borderline puppy mill.
ETA: I realize this is too little to late but in the future if you are having trouble locating a breeder near you, your best source is to google the breed club for that breed and ask for their recommendation for local breeders.

 

[Freyja]

Just wanted to say congrats on your puppy. Hope you have many wonderful years together ahead of you. Having a puppy sure is a lot of work but it is just as much fun as it is work.
I totally agree with you that the puppy´s upbringing influences it´s future behaviour the most. Spend a lot of time with it, especially in the beginning, and you will reep as your sow.