I'm At My Wit's End...

[FayeW]

...with my 14 yr old daughter. She cannot follow verbal instructions AT ALL. My frustration with her is at an all time high and I am unable to control my negative reactions to her. It effects our relationship, and my marriage.

I am beginning to think that she may have some kind of learning disability that effects her ability to process verbal information. She does have ADHD, and takes medication to help her stay focused. We are happy with the progress she has made with that over the years, however, she does have some trouble with school work, but most of it comes from not completing assignments correctly/completely because she "didn't fully understand what she was supposed to do". I am working with her on confidence and self esteem issues and she is now able to either raise her hand, or speak to the teachers privately to get clarification if she didn't understand something. She had problems with math mostly because if she didn't grasp a concept, and didn't ask for clarification, she wouldn't understand the next concept, KWIM?

Anyway, the last couple of weeks have me spinning in frustration. Yesterday she was at a friend's house and the Mom took the girls shopping. DD has a debit card for her own bank account. I was walking the dogs, and she called my cell and asked how much money she had in her account, because she was trying to buy something and the transaction was denied. She didn't have enough money so I told her I would go home immediately and transfer some money to her account. I was specific and said that in 10 mins she would be able to make her purchase. I raced home with the dogs, transfered the money, and called her in less than 10 mins to tell her the money was there. she had left the store because she didn't have enough money!!!! I was LIVID and I yelled at her on the phone. I was soooo angry that I told her I would stop what I was doing, immediately go and transfer money, raced home to do it and she didn't even wait!!! I asked why she didn't have the courtesy to call me and tell me to never mind, or why she didn't just wait, she really had no answer.

She does crap like this ALL the time. The other day I gave her specific instructions about something she was supposed to do, and gave her a specific time when I would call her. I called exactly when I said I would. She heard the phone but didn't answer. As a result, she didn't get the message that an appointment had been cancelled, and she was to take the bus home (instead of walking to the appointment). By the time she answered the phone, she had already missed the bus, so again, I had to stop what I was doing and come home to pick her up from school. She had asked if she could hang out with friends...because I was angry, I said no. Five minutes later her brother called (from home), that she had called there to see if she could hang out with friends! I called and said "what did I tell you 5 mins ago when you asked me that???" she said "I don't know, that's why I called to find out!!"

I don't mind doing things for my daughter...I really don't. What I mind is her constantly ignoring (or getting "confused") by my specific instructions, which then, to borrow a phrase from Thomas the Tank Engine, causes "confusion and delay". Inevitably I end up furious with her because she got things mixed up and I am racing to do something for her that she ultimately gets screwed up again.

Can there possibly be something wrong with the way her brain processes information, or is she just a 14 yr old girl who likes to jerk her mother around?

 

[bookwormde]

Please have an auditory processing evaluation done by a major children’s hospital or a group, which specializes in this. With her age ADHD diagnosis were given out “like candy” without following the proper diagnostic procedures and often without any clinical hyperactivity component.

She may well have some neurovariations, which are manifesting themselves in the situations you describe. If so the are lots of supports and accommodations available now to help her and just understanding the situation may help greatly with your frustration and her self esteem.

Beware that if it is a disability you will probably suffer from some parental “guilt” (all of us have to some extent) but do not dwell on it, you did the best you could with the information and knowledge you had, just move forward with helping her.

bookwormde

 

[SueM in MN]

I am going to move this to the disABILITIES Community Board, which is more for general disability related questions.

As far as the specific situations you mentioned:

she had left the store because she didn't have enough money!!!! I was LIVID and I yelled at her on the phone. I was soooo angry that I told her I would stop what I was doing, immediately go and transfer money, raced home to do it and she didn't even wait!!! I asked why she didn't have the courtesy to call me and tell me to never mind, or why she didn't just wait, she really had no answer.

I don't think you know enough to be able know why she didn't have an answer.
I can see several reasons why she might not have waited and some of them have to do more with being 14 than anything else. I don't think you know enough to know why she didn't have an answer. If I was 14 and my mom yelled at me because I didn't stay in the store, I'm not sure I would have had an answer to those questions.

Maybe the friend was done and wanted to leave. Maybe the clerk was 'looking' at her and she got embarrassed. Maybe some other friends came in and she was afraid to call you because she knew you would already be home?
I can also see some 14 yr old girl reasons why she might have not called you - would you be mad if she called since you rushed home? Did she decide she didn't want that item and was going somewhere else to look(in which case she still might have needed the money and would not have called you)?
Maybe she knew you were angry and was afraid anything she said would just make things worse?

She had asked if she could hang out with friends...because I was angry, I said no. Five minutes later her brother called (from home), that she had called there to see if she could hang out with friends! I called and said "what did I tell you 5 mins ago when you asked me that???" she said "I don't know, that's why I called to find out!!"

You might be thinking you are giving clear instructions, but did she hear your instructions or your anger?
It's also possible that she called the brother at home, either thinking she could bypass you and stay out with the friends or she thought she would get you and would get clarification.
Make sure you are giving a clear message before you give it.

My frustration with her is at an all time high and I am unable to control my negative reactions to her.

Whatever problems she has a think you need to get some assistance in dealing with your anger towards her.
People often deal with negativity from others with passive-aggressive bahavior ("I didn't do it because I didn't hear you.......I didn't understand"), so there might be some element of 14 yr old chain tugging going on, but your anger is not going to make her easier to deal with and will make your messages either harder to understand or easier to tune out. (Think of the cartoons where the mom is saying something and the teen just hears "Blah blab bla bla bla bla").

If she seems to have trouble with understanding verbal directions, until you get further ecaluation, you might try giving her verbal directions along with the same information in written form. OR if you need to contact her by cell phone, sending the information in a text message.

 

[Ctsplaysinrain]

This seems obvious but has she had a hearing test lately?

 

[Mrsjvb]

Taken by and of themselves, those two instances scream TEENAGER idiocy, not mental or other disabilities.

Only you can decide if she was being a typical 14 year old or if you think there is something else going on.

 

[FayeW]

I am going to move this to the disABILITIES Community Board, which is more for general disability related questions.

As far as the specific situations you mentioned:


I don't think you know enough to be able know why she didn't have an answer.
I can see several reasons why she might not have waited and some of them have to do more with being 14 than anything else. I don't think you know enough to know why she didn't have an answer. If I was 14 and my mom yelled at me because I didn't stay in the store, I'm not sure I would have had an answer to those questions.

Maybe the friend was done and wanted to leave. Maybe the clerk was 'looking' at her and she got embarrassed. Maybe some other friends came in and she was afraid to call you because she knew you would already be home?
I can also see some 14 yr old girl reasons why she might have not called you - would you be mad if she called since you rushed home? Did she decide she didn't want that item and was going somewhere else to look(in which case she still might have needed the money and would not have called you)?
Maybe she knew you were angry and was afraid anything she said would just make things worse?

You might be thinking you are giving clear instructions, but did she hear your instructions or your anger?
It's also possible that she called the brother at home, either thinking she could bypass you and stay out with the friends or she thought she would get you and would get clarification.
Make sure you are giving a clear message before you give it.
Whatever problems she has a think you need to get some assistance in dealing with your anger towards her.
People often deal with negativity from others with passive-aggressive bahavior ("I didn't do it because I didn't hear you.......I didn't understand"), so there might be some element of 14 yr old chain tugging going on, but your anger is not going to make her easier to deal with and will make your messages either harder to understand or easier to tune out. (Think of the cartoons where the mom is saying something and the teen just hears "Blah blab bla bla bla bla").

If she seems to have trouble with understanding verbal directions, until you get further ecaluation, you might try giving her verbal directions along with the same information in written form. OR if you need to contact her by cell phone, sending the information in a text message.

Regarding the part I bolded, the message was perfectly clear. It could not have been more clear. I said "No! I will be there in 25 mins to pick you up, at the regular spot. Look at the time on the phone when we hang up, and I will be there 25 mins from that time". As far as by passing me by asking her brother....he's 12...two years younger than her.

The kids have a cell phone that they share. She does not want her own phone and has only agreed to carry the one they share on an "as needed" basis. She absolutely, positively, will have nothing to do with texting. She thinks it's stupid. Twice a friend texted her on the cell and she wouldn't even acknowledge it. I may have to add texting to the plan and insist she use it if it turns out that she has CAPD.

I acknowledge that I need to learn how to deal with her more effectively. Mostly I have been sending her to her father when she wants something because she apparently doesn't hear anything I say anyway. I have been doing much better, however, sometimes I reach my boiling point, and yesterday was one of those times. I was NOT angry about having to go home to transfer money...I was actually happy to do it for her (I offered). I became furious when I went out of my way to do something for her and it was wasted effort. At least once a week I have a conversation with her about how her actions impact on others, and that she needs to think about what she's doing, and if it is inconveniencing other people. That is typical teenage behaviour, I understand that. What I don't understand is why I keep having the same conversations and nothing ever sinks in.

For example: I drop her off and pick her up at school every day. A couple of times I have shown up to pick her up and she's waiting with a friend, asking if she can just walk home with her (to friend's house). I have tried to explain that calling me and asking me will get a much more favourable response than inconveniencing me by making me drive all the way there, only to ask if she can walk somewhere else! (BTW, they made the plans at lunchtime, so she had ample time to call and ask instead of waiting until I got there.) That's just inconsiderate and rude. That's the stuff that I talk to her about, not being so careless with my time.

As for yesterday...she did want the items. They were in the store next door when I called her and they went back and made the purchase. When I related the story to DH he was miffed because he had told her specifically when she got out of the car that if they went anywhere, she was to call and let us know. When I spoke to her on the phone and asked where she was she said "S's Mom took us down town. I didn't know where we were going so I couldn't call!" I did not speak to her about that nor chastise her, however, when she was getting on a city bus with S and her mother, it was quite obvious that she was going SOMEWHERE. The reasonable thing to do would be to say "I have to call my parents to tell them where I am....where are we going?"

Anyway, I am ranting again because I am frustrated. I have sent an email to the organization that looks after testing for CAPD in Ontario, hopefully they will have some resources for me. In the meantime I am going to the library to see if they have the book "When Your Brain Doesn't Hear".

 

[toocherie]

Well, I am going to take a different tack from everyone else. Stop coddling her.

first of all, is it common for a 14-year old to have their own debit card these days? that seems really unusual to me--I couldn't even have a checking account until I was 18. but then I'm "old."

second, if she didn't have enough money to buy something, and it wasn't an emergency, then the response should have been--"so sorry--guess you'll have to pass this time." Running home to transfer money to her account? Why would you put yourself through that so she could buy a t-shirt or whatever it was she wanted. She needs to learn that there isn't a money tree that magically puts money in her account whenever she wants it. At 14 she should be able to track how much money she has in her own account.

third, when she refused to answer the phone and didn't know about the cancelled appointment, again--"oh well. guess you made a wasted trip and had to find your way home." She's 14--old enough to be able to get herself from Point A to Point B--especially since she brought it on herself.

I am not someone who automatically assumes there is a "medical" reason for someone's inability to follow instructions. this sounds to me like the typical antics of a spoiled 14-year old and not something to see a doctor about.

 

[FayeW]

Well, I am going to take a different tack from everyone else. Stop coddling her.

first of all, is it common for a 14-year old to have their own debit card these days? that seems really unusual to me--I couldn't even have a checking account until I was 18. but then I'm "old."

second, if she didn't have enough money to buy something, and it wasn't an emergency, then the response should have been--"so sorry--guess you'll have to pass this time." Running home to transfer money to her account? Why would you put yourself through that so she could buy a t-shirt or whatever it was she wanted. She needs to learn that there isn't a money tree that magically puts money in her account whenever she wants it. At 14 she should be able to track how much money she has in her own account.

third, when she refused to answer the phone and didn't know about the cancelled appointment, again--"oh well. guess you made a wasted trip and had to find your way home." She's 14--old enough to be able to get herself from Point A to Point B--especially since she brought it on herself.

I am not someone who automatically assumes there is a "medical" reason for someone's inability to follow instructions. this sounds to me like the typical antics of a spoiled 14-year old and not something to see a doctor about.

I appreciate your POV. She has some serious issues that we are trying to work through with a therapist. She has profound anxiety and being in situations she has not prepared for is one of the triggers. As long as she is aware of the plans, and has somebody with her, she's fine. Putting her in a situation where she has to do something out of the ordinary, alone, is not a realistic expectation for her at this time. I can't even send her to a different part of the grocery store to get something of the shelf. If she's with her brother, fine. By herself, no way. I've tried it, and it turns out to be a horrid experience for everyone. Telling her to find her own way home would not work in this situation as we do not have city bus service in our (new) subdivision. That's why I drive her everyday.

It's perfectly normal for teenagers to have their own debit cards these days. She's been using hers for about 3 years. The reason I offered to run home and transfer the money was because she was shopping in an area of town that we wouldn't ordinarily be in, and I had asked her to look for some spring clothes several times over the past couple of weeks, when she was at the mall with friends, etc. I was delighted that she had finally found something she wanted to buy. Transfering the money to her was saving me from having to make a special trip to that area of town later. I would pay for her clothes anyway so whether it came from my debit card or hers was irrelevant.

I wouldn't describe her as spoiled. She is emotionally fragile. We are working on it.

 

[bookwormde]

Your description of the situations where she has significant anxiety issues, probably indicates you should consult a neuropsychologist who will likely recommend a broader evaluation for neurovariants.

She may be just a relatively typical teen-ager but it is important to eliminate any underlying neurovariational causes since much of what is typical for dealing with these situation in average children is very damaging and abusive in a child with significant neurovariations, and since she has already been diagnosed with ADHD (correct or not) extra care and evaluations at this point are in order. I know it is a more complicated and time consuming to accomplish this under the Canadian style of medical delivery but is important for your child’s health and your peace of mind.

bookwormde

 

[bopper]

As a parent of a NT 15 year old...
1) If you want to change plans, you have to call me before I would leave to get you. In other words, if I am to pick you up at 7:00 and it takes me 15 minutes to get there, don't call me at 6:55 asking to change plans. You will go home with me.

2) If you don't have money with you, then so sad too bad.

3) If you don't want a phone but you want to change plans, then no, we won't be changing plans because you cannot communicate with me.

You might want to consider getting her a phone just so you and her can communicate...sounds like texting might be better for her if she has trouble with auditory processing.

 

[mechurchlady]

There are some basic reasons why she is not doing what you asked.

One she is not hearing you right. Check her hearing to eliminate that.

Second is a neurovariation. She may not have the same thought process as you. If this is the case then you will have to do detective work. The sound goes in her ears but when it hits her brain she does not act properly.

You told her to wait until you added money to a card. Maybe she got anxiety type stuff and panicked or maybe she did not comprehend that you were giving her more money. I cannot begin to guess why she is that way. You will have to do logs or diaries to show a pattern. A scientific stufy to see waht is what. Like dad talks to her and she responds instantly but not to mom would show a different disorder than a child ho does not respond to anyone.

My mother is a neurovariant and hypersensitive. Today I was very tired and got to bed about 5 hours past bed time. I have had 2 hours sleep. Mom has to have the mail and a wet washcloth. I can scream and yell at ther for getting me up but it is not her fault. She has hearing problems and thinks differently. Yelling at her would only shut her down an cause more problems.

You are going to have to first find out if she is a brat, hard of hearing, or has some thought process related problem. Hearing test will answer fi she is having auditory problems. Neuropsychologist will see if she has nurovariances ro other thought process problems. A log of each incident will show if she if always doing it and any possible triggers.

Telling a parent to crack down on a kid who has thought process problems is like screaming at a disabled kid for not walking faster.

Final answer is teens are teens. In chat I haev run across teens who go through the age of not listening. Like Sue said it could be a typical teen thing.
I wish you luck with the kid and please walk away and calm down. It will be hard but you can do it.

 

[toodycat]

I have been a high school teacher for 20 years and the types of things you're describing sound like the DX of ADHD and anxiety are dead-on. When the teens I teach are rebelling they either show verbal disrespect to their parents or avoid going home at all costs. They don't have the type of "brain freeze" that you're describing. I think it's likely that she was embarrassed when her debit card didn't work; that caused anxiety, so rather than wait for you to transfer the funds, she simply fled the situation. As for not picking up her phone, are you sure she completely understands how to use it? Perhaps the keys and functions are too confusing to her and therefore are another source of anxiety.(I know I've pressed the wrong buttons myself a few times and missed calls a result.) I haven't met a teen yet who didn't want a cell phone and/or didn't see texting as a useful way to communicate. It sounds to me like she has trouble processing verbal instructions and avoids/ignores confusing situations. People may have made fun of or criticized her when she didn't "get" whatever was happening and she may have decided that avoidance is her best option. Her need for structure and routine sound like clues that she may have a mild autism spectrum disorder or nonverbal learning disability. (Nonverbal Learning Disabilities at Home and Nonverbal Learning Disabilities at School both by Pamela Tanguay are two excellent resources on this topic. It's So Much Work to Be Your Friend by Rick LaVoie is another good book on teens with comprehension issues.) Also,given that your daughter's body is transitioning from child to woman, it is likely that hormonal changes may be affecting whatever ADHD meds she is on and making them less effective. I would take her to an adolescent psychiatrist and have her fully tested. Whatever answer you get will make life easier for both of you. Good luck.

 

[FayeW]

Thank you all for the helpful advice. I know that she struggles with self-esteem and self-confidence and in the past we had issues with poor performance at school because she was afraid to raise her hand and ask for help when she didn't understand something or was confused by the instructions. It is frustrating to see almost perfect marks for the first 8 pages of a 10 page assignment....but the pages 9 & 10 were forgotten because she "didn't fully understand what the teacher said...". I know it is because she doesn't want to be the centre of attention for even the few seconds it would take to ask the question.

toodycat, she does understand how to use the phone, she uses it all the time, but she chose not to answer it because she was still inside the school and was afraid she would get in trouble. The logical thing to do would have been to hurry out of the school and call me back. She does seem to have a problem with decision making.

At this point I feel like I am throwing a bunch of mud at the problem and hoping something sticks. She sees the school psychologist weekly, we have started hypnotherapy for the anxiety, and she has an appointment with a naturopath tomorrow to look at other options to treat her ADHD. The side effects of the medication she takes now, Concerta, are anxiety and depression. I think what has happened is that in the last 3 yrs her body weight has nearly doubled, which means the dosage has increased as well, and with it, the side effects. I don't want to put her on anti-anxiety or anti-depressant medications because of the side effects with some of those. I don't want to layer more medications to treat the side effects of Concerta, so I am looking at natural products to see if that will help.

I heard about a product called "Focus" which is a combination of several natural products and is available in the United States, but not in Canada. The reviews I read were very good, so I am hoping that the naturopath will be able to recommend something similar that we can try.

I want her to be able to have a normal relationship with her peers, and right now her fears and anxieties are paralysing her socially. I have also noticed that some of her old friends are getting turned off by her "nonsense" and I want her to be able to go out and participate in clubs and activities. Right now she is too afraid to join in.

 

[bookwormde]

Sometimes it takes “toughing mud at the wall, but I again would recommend and auditory processing evaluation this is especially important if the ADHD diagnosis did not have a significant hyperactivity component. If the attention issues and anxiety are manifestations of significant deficits then all the medication in the world will at best only allow for transient improvements and can be contraindicated and potentially very damaging if and auditory processing deficit leads to other causes.

bookwormde

 

[toodycat]

I think an updated evaluation is really in order. They may change her medication. My son was on Concerta and he was just switched off it. The difference in his personality, particularly vis a vis anxiety, is significant. Maybe she would be happier on a drug that wasn't a ritalin-type?

 

[FayeW]

Sometimes it takes “toughing mud at the wall, but I again would recommend and auditory processing evaluation this is especially important if the ADHD diagnosis did not have a significant hyperactivity component. If the attention issues and anxiety are manifestations of significant deficits then all the medication in the world will at best only allow for transient improvements and can be contraindicated and potentially very damaging if and auditory processing deficit leads to other causes.

bookwormde

I definitely intend to have her evaluated for CAPD. I did send an email to an organization over the weekend but they haven't responded yet, so I am going to contact an audiologist directly to set up the eval.

 

[letfuller]

Wow Faye..you are not alone with your frustrations with your DD. I hear myself in a lot of what you are frustrated about.

My DD 12 was diagnosed last year with ACC (Agenesis of the Corpus Colosum) Basically, she is missing the connective bridge in her brain that serves as the communication route btw the rt and left brains. She sounds very similar to your daughter. I become easily frustrated. She will NOT get it...I think the last person to post stated it well: yelling at children that have processing issues is like yelling at a disabled student for not being able to walk. That is profound for me.

Seek the consult of a neurologist. My dd was diagnosed with CAPD, but with the MRI...we received so much more that we are now trying to understand. Having always known that something was just not right with dd, we now have information to help make her life even better!

Good luck. I will be following your story with interest.

 

[kimsuenew]

...with my 14 yr old daughter. She cannot follow verbal instructions AT ALL. My frustration with her is at an all time high and I am unable to control my negative reactions to her. It effects our relationship, and my marriage.

I am beginning to think that she may have some kind of learning disability that effects her ability to process verbal information. She does have ADHD, and takes medication to help her stay focused. We are happy with the progress she has made with that over the years, however, she does have some trouble with school work, but most of it comes from not completing assignments correctly/completely because she "didn't fully understand what she was supposed to do". I am working with her on confidence and self esteem issues and she is now able to either raise her hand, or speak to the teachers privately to get clarification if she didn't understand something. She had problems with math mostly because if she didn't grasp a concept, and didn't ask for clarification, she wouldn't understand the next concept, KWIM?

Anyway, the last couple of weeks have me spinning in frustration. Yesterday she was at a friend's house and the Mom took the girls shopping. DD has a debit card for her own bank account. I was walking the dogs, and she called my cell and asked how much money she had in her account, because she was trying to buy something and the transaction was denied. She didn't have enough money so I told her I would go home immediately and transfer some money to her account. I was specific and said that in 10 mins she would be able to make her purchase. I raced home with the dogs, transfered the money, and called her in less than 10 mins to tell her the money was there. she had left the store because she didn't have enough money!!!! I was LIVID and I yelled at her on the phone. I was soooo angry that I told her I would stop what I was doing, immediately go and transfer money, raced home to do it and she didn't even wait!!! I asked why she didn't have the courtesy to call me and tell me to never mind, or why she didn't just wait, she really had no answer.

She does crap like this ALL the time. The other day I gave her specific instructions about something she was supposed to do, and gave her a specific time when I would call her. I called exactly when I said I would. She heard the phone but didn't answer. As a result, she didn't get the message that an appointment had been cancelled, and she was to take the bus home (instead of walking to the appointment). By the time she answered the phone, she had already missed the bus, so again, I had to stop what I was doing and come home to pick her up from school. She had asked if she could hang out with friends...because I was angry, I said no. Five minutes later her brother called (from home), that she had called there to see if she could hang out with friends! I called and said "what did I tell you 5 mins ago when you asked me that???" she said "I don't know, that's why I called to find out!!"

I don't mind doing things for my daughter...I really don't. What I mind is her constantly ignoring (or getting "confused") by my specific instructions, which then, to borrow a phrase from Thomas the Tank Engine, causes "confusion and delay". Inevitably I end up furious with her because she got things mixed up and I am racing to do something for her that she ultimately gets screwed up again.

Can there possibly be something wrong with the way her brain processes information, or is she just a 14 yr old girl who likes to jerk her mother around?

Our very bright but very frustrated son's story is similar to your daughter's story regarding the processing of what is said to her.

After formal testing was completed we found our son had a couple major issues... dysgraphia/dyslexia and a "linguistic processing deficit". This dysgraphia/dyslexia was not a big surprise as my DH (his father) has it, as does his grandfather (DH husband) and his cousin (DH sister's boy) so there is a big family history and he was classic. The linguistic processing deficit was sort of a surprise but explained so much.

The doctor/professionals explained that mainly, when DS hears a lot of words/lists/comands/instructions, ect... he will process just a smidge of it (with DS it seemed to be often the last one or two things he heard). Also, if he was trying to "keep up" and take notes or write down what was being said he would concentrate on that and comprehend even less of what was said.

We got accomodations at school through his 504 and we follow the same method at home. For directions or notes (or any verbal lectures, instructions, lists, ect...) the school had to provide DS with written notes/instructions/lists/ect... not simply verbal ones.

I also make him lists at home (eg. please feed the puppy, put the clothes in the dryer, write a thank you note to Aunt Jen, get your shower). I understand that this would not work via a telephone call but it will/does work to text DS if I am not there (I have done this and then he will reference the text).

DS responded very well to this and now that he a bit older, he has learned to make himself notes of things to do.

If a short burst of verbal is required we have learned to repeat it more than once and have him repeat it back to us (eg please grab the mail from the mailbox and the newspaper from the news box).

His challenges will never "be fixed" but he/we have learn to compensate for them and have learned different ways of doing things.

Good luck!