Illuminations Dining Package at Rose and Crown

Alucard84

Earning My Ears
Joined
Jul 22, 2018
Is the viewing area still there for diners(not eating on the patio). How big is it? Does it get crowded?
 

Babsy

DIS Veteran
Joined
Oct 30, 2001
Is the viewing area still there for diners(not eating on the patio). How big is it? Does it get crowded?
The entire lower patio is now used for the Illuminations package. There isn't anywhere for people sitting inside to come outside on the patio to watch anymore. You can go to the outside 'garden with tables' next door to the restaurant, but people will already be there watching.
 

Babsy

DIS Veteran
Joined
Oct 30, 2001
So, we went to the Rose and Crown Illuminations Dining package on Friday, Feb 15th. It was wonderful and sad all at once. Wonderful because it was the very first time that we had been able to sit on the lower patio together (I had done so myself but not with DH) and sad as this will have been the very last time we ever see Illuminations.

This is how the event went for us:

We arrived at 7:30 pm. tried to check in at the podium and were told to wait in that area next to the podium and that someone would show up later to take our names. Some people went on down the path that we were standing at the top of and lined up. I checked with the CM's 3 times, they all told us that where we were was where they would be checking us in. In the end going down the path towards the garden with the tables (behind the beer stand) was the way to go. They opened the gate at the bottom and we were let in through the side - not through the upper patio as I had expected. Our table was only the second one in so we didn't get to move along the row of tables. I tried to look further along but it looked like there was only a single row of tables by the rail. Tables were close together, but not unpleasantly so. We were not seated until 7:55. service was prompt and excellent throughout the evening.

The view/hedge:

where we were seated, the hedge only impacted a portion of the view. The single table to the left of us would have had a line of sight that was free of the hedge almost completely. DH was the most impacted at our table and said that it did not affect his view of the show at all. I went to his side and sat down (I am 5'2") and I had no problem looking over the hedge. Once the show started, I completely forgot about the partial obstruction of the hedge as I was swept up in the emotions of watching Illuminations for the last time. Never once did we feel that we had anything but a magical view of the show. I would have been happy at any of the tables along the lower patio. there were tables with children (maybe aged about 5-7 years?) further towards the middle of the patio. . I glanced over once to see how they were doing. They appeared to be kneeling up a little on their chairs. They were not standing and showed no signs of not being able to see. If anyone did have an issue, it would be easy enough to stand. The upper patio is significantly higher so I doubt that you would seriously block anyone's view.


The food:

We both ordered the Scotch egg. It was delicious. DH had the bangers and Mash. I opted for the fish and chips. Both were very good. My one complaint would be that there were some areas of batter with no fish in it, but still there was lots of food and it was quite tasty. I sampled DH's bangers and mash and would order that if I were lucky enough to be able to go again. The food arrived promptly but not too quickly for comfort. we were delighted with the speed of service. We did inquire about dessert prior to the fireworks. Our server (Fiona) said that dessert was served following the show. She suggested another drink. We decided to wait and were happy that we did. It was very relaxing after the show to enjoy dessert and perhaps a final beverage prior to exiting through an empty park. I found the4 desserts to be OK, but not memorable. DH liked the chocolate best. I kind of liked the trifle, but didn't finish any of them.

I asked about the vegan/vegetarian options. I was told that (for now at least) they could do a salad as the appetizer, a vegan fish and chips or a vegan bangers and mash for the entree, and fruit for the dessert. They are still working on the options and have it in mind to work on the menu some more....I was reminded that this is all still very new and they are working on the kinks in the program.

The beverages:

I had two specialty drinks (Sparkling Duchess?) plus a Guinness with the entree and DH had three glasses of wine throughout the evening. That is a huge amount of drinking for us, but we were offered even more. We could have had 4 - 5 drinks if we had tried/wanted to do so. We were told before the bar closed and were offered more at that time, but we had had enough by then. (feeling very happy)

The value:

I thought that the price was extremely fair for perhaps my favourite 'extra event' that I have done thus far at WDW. With three alcoholic beverages each, an appetizer , entree and dessert and then including tip and tax.....just WOW! we Loved it and would highly recommend the experience to anyone. It was so nice not to have to beg for a table to be able to watch the show, paying the small uncharge was well worth it. I have been among the people that was not given a table to view the fireworks and was disappointed in the past. (we did get to go stand in the area in the corner to watch the show).
I appreciated the opportunity to book this in advance and know that we would have such a view together at last. It was magical!


Any questions? I will try to answer.
 
Last edited:
  • Babsy

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 30, 2001
    I tried to upload a file to add pics but the file comes up with an error that it is too large :worried:
     

    CogsworthTN

    Mouseketeer: Disney Mom of 2
    Joined
    Nov 2, 2017
    So, we went to the Rose and Crown Illuminations Dining package on Friday, Feb 15th. It was wonderful and sad all at once. Wonderful because it was the very first time that we had been able to sit on the lower patio together (I had done so myself but not with DH) and sad as this will have been the very last time we ever see Illuminations.

    This is how the event went for us:

    We arrived at 7:30 pm. tried to check in at the podium and were told to wait in that area next to the podium and that someone would show up later to take our names. Some people went on down the path that we were standing at the top of and lined up. I checked with the CM's 3 times, they all told us that where we were was where they would be checking us in. In the end going down the path towards the garden with the tables (behind the beer stand) was the way to go. They opened the gate at the bottom and we were let in through the side - not through the upper patio as I had expected. Our table was only the second one in so we didn't get to move along the row of tables. I tried to look further along but it looked like there was only a single row of tables by the rail. Tables were close together, but not unpleasantly so. We were not seated until 7:55. service was prompt and excellent throughout the evening.

    The view/hedge:

    where we were seated, the hedge only impacted a portion of the view. The single table to the left of us would have had a line of sight that was free of the hedge almost completely. DH was the most impacted at our table and said that it did not affect his view of the show at all. I went to his side and sat down (I am 5'2") and I had no problem looking over the hedge. Once the show started, I completely forgot about the partial obstruction of the hedge as I was swept up in the emotions of watching Illuminations for the last time. Never once did we feel that we had anything but a magical view of the show. I would have been happy at any of the tables along the lower patio. there were tables with children (maybe aged about 5-7 years?) further towards the middle of the patio. . I glanced over once to see how they were doing. They appeared to be kneeling up a little on their chairs. They were not standing and showed no signs of not being able to see. If anyone did have an issue, it would be easy enough to stand. The upper patio is significantly higher so I doubt that you would seriously block anyone's view.


    The food:

    We both ordered the Scotch egg. It was delicious. DH had the bangers and Mash. I opted for the fish and chips. Both were very good. My one complaint would be that there were some areas of batter with no fish in it, but still there was lots of food and it was quite tasty. I sampled DH's bangers and mash and would order that if I were lucky enough to be able to go again. The food arrived promptly but not too quickly for comfort. we were delighted with the speed of service. We did inquire about dessert prior to the fireworks. Our server (Fiona) said that dessert was served following the show. She suggested another drink. We decided to wait and were happy that we did. It was very relaxing after the show to enjoy dessert and perhaps a final beverage prior to exiting through an empty park. I found the4 desserts to be OK, but not memorable. DH liked the chocolate best. I kind of liked the trifle, but didn't finish any of them.

    I asked about the vegan/vegetarian options. I was told that (for now at least) they could do a salad as the appetizer, a vegan fish and chips or a vegan bangers and mash for the entree, and fruit for the dessert. They are still working on the options and have it in mind to work on the menu some more....I was reminded that this is all still very new and they are working on the kinks in the program.

    The beverages:

    I had two specialty drinks (Sparkling Duchess?) plus a Guinness with the entree and DH had three glasses of wine throughout the evening. That is a huge amount of drinking for us, but we were offered even more. We could have had 4 - 5 drinks if we had tried/wanted to do so. We were told before the bar closed and were offered more at that time, but we had had enough by then. (feeling very happy)

    The value:

    I thought that the price was extremely fair for perhaps my favourite 'extra event' that I have done thus far at WDW. With three alcoholic beverages each, an appetizer , entree and dessert and then including tip and tax.....just WOW! we Loved it and would highly recommend the experience to anyone. It was so nice not to have to beg for a table to be able to watch the show, paying the small uncharge was well worth it. I have been among the people that was not given a table to view the fireworks and was disappointed in the past. (we did get to go stand in the area in the corner to watch the show).
    I appreciated the opportunity to book this in advance and know that we would have such a view together at last. It was magical!


    Any questions? I will try to answer.
    Thank you so much for your review. I may just keep our July 4th reservation.
     

    PPFlight75

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 22, 2015
    So, we went to the Rose and Crown Illuminations Dining package on Friday, Feb 15th. It was wonderful and sad all at once. Wonderful because it was the very first time that we had been able to sit on the lower patio together (I had done so myself but not with DH) and sad as this will have been the very last time we ever see Illuminations.

    This is how the event went for us:

    We arrived at 7:30 pm. tried to check in at the podium and were told to wait in that area next to the podium and that someone would show up later to take our names. Some people went on down the path that we were standing at the top of and lined up. I checked with the CM's 3 times, they all told us that where we were was where they would be checking us in. In the end going down the path towards the garden with the tables (behind the beer stand) was the way to go. They opened the gate at the bottom and we were let in through the side - not through the upper patio as I had expected. Our table was only the second one in so we didn't get to move along the row of tables. I tried to look further along but it looked like there was only a single row of tables by the rail. Tables were close together, but not unpleasantly so. We were not seated until 7:55. service was prompt and excellent throughout the evening.

    The view/hedge:

    where we were seated, the hedge only impacted a portion of the view. The single table to the left of us would have had a line of sight that was free of the hedge almost completely. DH was the most impacted at our table and said that it did not affect his view of the show at all. I went to his side and sat down (I am 5'2") and I had no problem looking over the hedge. Once the show started, I completely forgot about the partial obstruction of the hedge as I was swept up in the emotions of watching Illuminations for the last time. Never once did we feel that we had anything but a magical view of the show. I would have been happy at any of the tables along the lower patio. there were tables with children (maybe aged about 5-7 years?) further towards the middle of the patio. . I glanced over once to see how they were doing. They appeared to be kneeling up a little on their chairs. They were not standing and showed no signs of not being able to see. If anyone did have an issue, it would be easy enough to stand. The upper patio is significantly higher so I doubt that you would seriously block anyone's view.


    The food:

    We both ordered the Scotch egg. It was delicious. DH had the bangers and Mash. I opted for the fish and chips. Both were very good. My one complaint would be that there were some areas of batter with no fish in it, but still there was lots of food and it was quite tasty. I sampled DH's bangers and mash and would order that if I were lucky enough to be able to go again. The food arrived promptly but not too quickly for comfort. we were delighted with the speed of service. We did inquire about dessert prior to the fireworks. Our server (Fiona) said that dessert was served following the show. She suggested another drink. We decided to wait and were happy that we did. It was very relaxing after the show to enjoy dessert and perhaps a final beverage prior to exiting through an empty park. I found the4 desserts to be OK, but not memorable. DH liked the chocolate best. I kind of liked the trifle, but didn't finish any of them.

    I asked about the vegan/vegetarian options. I was told that (for now at least) they could do a salad as the appetizer, a vegan fish and chips or a vegan bangers and mash for the entree, and fruit for the dessert. They are still working on the options and have it in mind to work on the menu some more....I was reminded that this is all still very new and they are working on the kinks in the program.

    The beverages:

    I had two specialty drinks (Sparkling Duchess?) plus a Guinness with the entree and DH had three glasses of wine throughout the evening. That is a huge amount of drinking for us, but we were offered even more. We could have had 4 - 5 drinks if we had tried/wanted to do so. We were told before the bar closed and were offered more at that time, but we had had enough by then. (feeling very happy)

    The value:

    I thought that the price was extremely fair for perhaps my favourite 'extra event' that I have done thus far at WDW. With three alcoholic beverages each, an appetizer , entree and dessert and then including tip and tax.....just WOW! we Loved it and would highly recommend the experience to anyone. It was so nice not to have to beg for a table to be able to watch the show, paying the small uncharge was well worth it. I have been among the people that was not given a table to view the fireworks and was disappointed in the past. (we did get to go stand in the area in the corner to watch the show).
    I appreciated the opportunity to book this in advance and know that we would have such a view together at last. It was magical!


    Any questions? I will try to answer.
    Thank you so much for this. I have mixed emotions going into this as well (our reservation in is in March). I am excited for the view and event but also so sad that Illuminations is ending. I absolutely love it, and your post made me teary just thinking about it. I am glad that you had a nice time and enjoyed to view :wizard:
     

    Babsy

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 30, 2001
    It was the highlight of our trip.

    we also did all the dessert parties and they just didn't compare, IMO. SW:AGS was particularly disappointing. I would never pay for this again.
     
    Last edited:
  • Babsy

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 30, 2001
    Thank you so much for this. I have mixed emotions going into this as well (our reservation in is in March). I am excited for the view and event but also so sad that Illuminations is ending. I absolutely love it, and your post made me teary just thinking about it. I am glad that you had a nice time and enjoyed to view :wizard:
    I think that you will love it! I spoke to the manager and tried to impress her that this would be nice to offer with the new show as well. A very emotional time, though, for sure! saying good-bye to illuminations was harder than I thought it would be. we have a lot of wonderful memories associated with it.
     

    d-train

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Mar 16, 2009
    So, we went to the Rose and Crown Illuminations Dining package on Friday, Feb 15th. It was wonderful and sad all at once. Wonderful because it was the very first time that we had been able to sit on the lower patio together (I had done so myself but not with DH) and sad as this will have been the very last time we ever see Illuminations.

    This is how the event went for us:

    We arrived at 7:30 pm. tried to check in at the podium and were told to wait in that area next to the podium and that someone would show up later to take our names. Some people went on down the path that we were standing at the top of and lined up. I checked with the CM's 3 times, they all told us that where we were was where they would be checking us in. In the end going down the path towards the garden with the tables (behind the beer stand) was the way to go. They opened the gate at the bottom and we were let in through the side - not through the upper patio as I had expected. Our table was only the second one in so we didn't get to move along the row of tables. I tried to look further along but it looked like there was only a single row of tables by the rail. Tables were close together, but not unpleasantly so. We were not seated until 7:55. service was prompt and excellent throughout the evening.

    The view/hedge:

    where we were seated, the hedge only impacted a portion of the view. The single table to the left of us would have had a line of sight that was free of the hedge almost completely. DH was the most impacted at our table and said that it did not affect his view of the show at all. I went to his side and sat down (I am 5'2") and I had no problem looking over the hedge. Once the show started, I completely forgot about the partial obstruction of the hedge as I was swept up in the emotions of watching Illuminations for the last time. Never once did we feel that we had anything but a magical view of the show. I would have been happy at any of the tables along the lower patio. there were tables with children (maybe aged about 5-7 years?) further towards the middle of the patio. . I glanced over once to see how they were doing. They appeared to be kneeling up a little on their chairs. They were not standing and showed no signs of not being able to see. If anyone did have an issue, it would be easy enough to stand. The upper patio is significantly higher so I doubt that you would seriously block anyone's view.


    The food:

    We both ordered the Scotch egg. It was delicious. DH had the bangers and Mash. I opted for the fish and chips. Both were very good. My one complaint would be that there were some areas of batter with no fish in it, but still there was lots of food and it was quite tasty. I sampled DH's bangers and mash and would order that if I were lucky enough to be able to go again. The food arrived promptly but not too quickly for comfort. we were delighted with the speed of service. We did inquire about dessert prior to the fireworks. Our server (Fiona) said that dessert was served following the show. She suggested another drink. We decided to wait and were happy that we did. It was very relaxing after the show to enjoy dessert and perhaps a final beverage prior to exiting through an empty park. I found the4 desserts to be OK, but not memorable. DH liked the chocolate best. I kind of liked the trifle, but didn't finish any of them.

    I asked about the vegan/vegetarian options. I was told that (for now at least) they could do a salad as the appetizer, a vegan fish and chips or a vegan bangers and mash for the entree, and fruit for the dessert. They are still working on the options and have it in mind to work on the menu some more....I was reminded that this is all still very new and they are working on the kinks in the program.

    The beverages:

    I had two specialty drinks (Sparkling Duchess?) plus a Guinness with the entree and DH had three glasses of wine throughout the evening. That is a huge amount of drinking for us, but we were offered even more. We could have had 4 - 5 drinks if we had tried/wanted to do so. We were told before the bar closed and were offered more at that time, but we had had enough by then. (feeling very happy)

    The value:

    I thought that the price was extremely fair for perhaps my favourite 'extra event' that I have done thus far at WDW. With three alcoholic beverages each, an appetizer , entree and dessert and then including tip and tax.....just WOW! we Loved it and would highly recommend the experience to anyone. It was so nice not to have to beg for a table to be able to watch the show, paying the small uncharge was well worth it. I have been among the people that was not given a table to view the fireworks and was disappointed in the past. (we did get to go stand in the area in the corner to watch the show).
    I appreciated the opportunity to book this in advance and know that we would have such a view together at last. It was magical!


    Any questions? I will try to answer.
    Thanks so much for the review! I am look8ng forward to this experience in April! Usually we have done the dessert party, and have enjoyed it, except the no where to sit. Also have felt we couldn’t have dinner on our day at EP. I’m glad to have an event that combines the best of both! Kind of sad to see illuminations go, but we have seen it so many times, excited to see what is next as well!
     
  • Babsy

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 30, 2001
    Bumping in hopes someone will chime in as far as seating and fireworks viewing for those with regular ressies.
    we saw some people escorted in (while we were waiting to be seated on the lower patio with the package) that were seated on the upper patio. So at least some regular reservations are able to be seated outside. I would expect that the chances of regular reservations getting a fireworks view will be much reduced with the lower patio used for the packages (obviously).

    The area that was in the corner where they let us watch the show once (we had been seated inside) was occupied with a table for the package. unless they rope off a new area to reserve for diners, I don't think that going outside to watch is an option anymore. At least I didn't see any evidence of it. Unfortunately, I didn't think to ask.
     

    glocon

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 16, 2010
    I just read thru this whole thread and decided to pull the trigger- we’ll be at the R&C for this package 7/27!
    So excited! I know there were plenty on here with negative reviews, but most seem positive. And my son and I definitely can find things on the menu that we like. I’d rather eat real food then desserts, and we really don’t care about fea, so it’s a perfect fit!
     

    Jennygt

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 13, 2005
    I am surprised I can't find any reviews except for here and easy wdw. very happy everyone here is sharing, wonder why most bloggers are not commenting?
     

    sabrecmc

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 31, 2009
    It sounds like the package is a great experience for certain diners, but it does take away from the availability for non-package diners (understandably, you are paying a premium to some degree). I wish the package had more food options and a non-alcohol option for kids. We would definitely do it if there was a way around paying that much for two teens who aren't drinking alcohol. As it is, we have two 13 year-olds, and I think we are going to skip our traditional last night dinner at the R&C this time. With the reduced availability for an outside table, it doesn't seem like a good use of our time and TS credit. Thank you to everyone for the reviews and information. That really helped make the decision.
     

    Shellyb84

    DIS Veteran
    DVC Gold
    Joined
    Sep 14, 2015
    So, we went to the Rose and Crown Illuminations Dining package on Friday, Feb 15th. It was wonderful and sad all at once. Wonderful because it was the very first time that we had been able to sit on the lower patio together (I had done so myself but not with DH) and sad as this will have been the very last time we ever see Illuminations.

    This is how the event went for us:

    We arrived at 7:30 pm. tried to check in at the podium and were told to wait in that area next to the podium and that someone would show up later to take our names. Some people went on down the path that we were standing at the top of and lined up. I checked with the CM's 3 times, they all told us that where we were was where they would be checking us in. In the end going down the path towards the garden with the tables (behind the beer stand) was the way to go. They opened the gate at the bottom and we were let in through the side - not through the upper patio as I had expected. Our table was only the second one in so we didn't get to move along the row of tables. I tried to look further along but it looked like there was only a single row of tables by the rail. Tables were close together, but not unpleasantly so. We were not seated until 7:55. service was prompt and excellent throughout the evening.

    The view/hedge:

    where we were seated, the hedge only impacted a portion of the view. The single table to the left of us would have had a line of sight that was free of the hedge almost completely. DH was the most impacted at our table and said that it did not affect his view of the show at all. I went to his side and sat down (I am 5'2") and I had no problem looking over the hedge. Once the show started, I completely forgot about the partial obstruction of the hedge as I was swept up in the emotions of watching Illuminations for the last time. Never once did we feel that we had anything but a magical view of the show. I would have been happy at any of the tables along the lower patio. there were tables with children (maybe aged about 5-7 years?) further towards the middle of the patio. . I glanced over once to see how they were doing. They appeared to be kneeling up a little on their chairs. They were not standing and showed no signs of not being able to see. If anyone did have an issue, it would be easy enough to stand. The upper patio is significantly higher so I doubt that you would seriously block anyone's view.


    The food:

    We both ordered the Scotch egg. It was delicious. DH had the bangers and Mash. I opted for the fish and chips. Both were very good. My one complaint would be that there were some areas of batter with no fish in it, but still there was lots of food and it was quite tasty. I sampled DH's bangers and mash and would order that if I were lucky enough to be able to go again. The food arrived promptly but not too quickly for comfort. we were delighted with the speed of service. We did inquire about dessert prior to the fireworks. Our server (Fiona) said that dessert was served following the show. She suggested another drink. We decided to wait and were happy that we did. It was very relaxing after the show to enjoy dessert and perhaps a final beverage prior to exiting through an empty park. I found the4 desserts to be OK, but not memorable. DH liked the chocolate best. I kind of liked the trifle, but didn't finish any of them.

    I asked about the vegan/vegetarian options. I was told that (for now at least) they could do a salad as the appetizer, a vegan fish and chips or a vegan bangers and mash for the entree, and fruit for the dessert. They are still working on the options and have it in mind to work on the menu some more....I was reminded that this is all still very new and they are working on the kinks in the program.

    The beverages:

    I had two specialty drinks (Sparkling Duchess?) plus a Guinness with the entree and DH had three glasses of wine throughout the evening. That is a huge amount of drinking for us, but we were offered even more. We could have had 4 - 5 drinks if we had tried/wanted to do so. We were told before the bar closed and were offered more at that time, but we had had enough by then. (feeling very happy)

    The value:

    I thought that the price was extremely fair for perhaps my favourite 'extra event' that I have done thus far at WDW. With three alcoholic beverages each, an appetizer , entree and dessert and then including tip and tax.....just WOW! we Loved it and would highly recommend the experience to anyone. It was so nice not to have to beg for a table to be able to watch the show, paying the small uncharge was well worth it. I have been among the people that was not given a table to view the fireworks and was disappointed in the past. (we did get to go stand in the area in the corner to watch the show).
    I appreciated the opportunity to book this in advance and know that we would have such a view together at last. It was magical!


    Any questions? I will try to answer.
    Thanks for you review! I was on the fence about keeping our July 4th reservation but this makes me feel better about it. I'm also 5'2" and have a 9 year old so I was worried about our view or if we would block anyone if we needed to stand. Glad to hear the food and beverage was great also!
     

    Mrs~Incredible

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Feb 18, 2015
    The entire lower patio is now used for the Illuminations package. There isn't anywhere for people sitting inside to come outside on the patio to watch anymore. You can go to the outside 'garden with tables' next door to the restaurant, but people will already be there watching.
    Wait, for real? So now regular diners can’t even go to the R and C outdoor holding pen?
     

    Babsy

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Oct 30, 2001
    Wait, for real? So now regular diners can’t even go to the R and C outdoor holding pen?
    I'm not sure what you mean by 'holding pen'. The small area at the end of the lower patio that we were once brought to when dining inside had a table there when we dined on Feb 15th. It was definitely inside the gate to the lower patio though. Is there a different area where they bring folks? Perhaps somewhere that I haven't been brought to? I am not a R&C expert. We have only been brought to an area to watch the show after dinner once at R&C. I assumed that it was the usual place that people were shown to to watch after dining inside, but that could easily be incorrect. I would not have called it a holding pen?

    There is the area with tables behind the beer cart (has tables and usually pretty full) where someone could go to watch I suppose, assuming that there was space. Or even at the end of the walkway down to that area and the lower patio. Some people were standing there (bottom of walkway) that may have come from the R & C restaurant. We were on the end of the lower patio only one table toward centre from there. It was pretty full outside the gate from where we were.
    I'm not sure how the area behind the fish and chips window worked. Perhaps you could go there if there is space? WE couldn't see how that was set up/occupied as we were at the far end of the lower patio.

    Hope that makes sense.
     

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