If RCID is dissolved, what happens with DVC?

[WilsonFlyer]

Doing a little day drinking over there?

As a matter of fact, I'm currently in my room at Carousel at SSR and yes; yes I am. WTH else am I supposed to do over here?

 

[eandt]

IMO, it's an empty threat and will not happen. That idea will die a quick and quiet death as soon as the County taxpayers realize how much their taxes will go up to pay for Disney's fire & police departments and the maintenance of the roads and bridges and other County services.

Wouldn't it be Disney's taxes that go up? Disney has no police department to my knowledge, only private security which they would still be responsible for their own expenses. I believe they contract with local sheriff's depts for police services which they would still need to do to ensure the safety of their guests, otherwise the local department would just provide less manpower and resources to the property. This was an unforced error and is not a good thing for Disney at all in a zillion different ways. In my opinion all businesses should stay out of politics altogether, more so today. There is no upside.

 

[DonMacGregor]

As a matter of fact, I'm currently in my room at Carousel at SSR and yes; yes I am.

Well, you ARE way over at the Carousel, so it is allowed...

 

[lpereira]

It depends is the answer. So it seems that this is now a done deal. The only place it could have been held up was in the Senate. Passing the house is a formality.
Interestingly I learned today that the towns of Lake Beuna avista and Bay Lake still exist. As such they are responsible for the outstanding bonds owned by Reedy Creek Special Tax District. So roughly 50 fulltime residents are on the hook for just over a billion in tax exempt bonds. Here is the question. In Florida timeshares are real estate property. That means if any DVC resorts are in Bay Lake and Lake Beuna Vista they may be on the hook as well for these bonds. This I don't know the definitive answer for. Disney and local governments have 14 months to figure it out.

 

[The Prophet]

It depends is the answer. So it seems that this is now a done deal. The only place it could have been held up was in the Senate. Passing the house is a formality.
Interestingly I learned today that the towns of Lake Beuna avista and Bay Lake still exist. As such they are responsible for the outstanding bonds owned by Reedy Creek Special Tax District. So roughly 50 fulltime residents are on the hook for just over a billion in tax exempt bonds. Here is the question. In Florida timeshares are real estate property. That means if any DVC resorts are in Bay Lake and Lake Beuna Vista they may be on the hook as well for these bonds. This I don't know the definitive answer for. Disney and local governments have 14 months to figure it out.

Not true. As I posted earlier -- "Under current Florida statutes, the debts and assets of a special district that is dissolved are passed to the municipal government that takes over."

 

[WilsonFlyer]

Well, you ARE way over at the Carousel, so it is allowed...

That's what I was thinking! I asked for Grandstand. I guess it's across the road so that counts, right?

 

[jerry557]

The only taxes DVC pays is related to its own resorts. What taxes TWDC pays for its parks or roads or transportation has no impact on DVC. Occupancy taxes and hotel taxes are already paid to the state and county. Those won’t change. Insurance won’t change any either.

What difference would the property taxes be under the county compared to RCID? That’s the only big question in regards to DVC dues. Not sure anyone has the answer right now.

 

[lpereira]

Not true. As I posted earlier -- "Under current Florida statutes, the debts and assets of a special district that is dissolved are passed to the municipal government that takes over."

That is Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista. These two cities continue to exist. They were created at the same time as Reedy Creek and immediately turned over 100% of the running of the city to Reedy Creek. As they still exist the debt becomes their debt. Not the county. The case could be made that bonds for items not for the benefit of these cities could be shifted to the counties.

 

[Brett Wyman]

I don't think so. They wouldn't be doing this unless it would help out the people of the state. They aren't going to pass something that would cause citizens to pay more.

Oh sweet summer child.

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

If the RCID is dissolved, and the county has to pick up costs for fire, etc., those are very likely to increase property tax rates for all residents, which in turn, would raise the rate we pay as owners as well. So, I do think there could be a potential impact.

Property taxes, for general purposes, are established by appraised value of the property and the mill rate (or sometimes called millage rates). The property value is appraised by an assessor. The mill rate is established by the local governmental entity.

Although I'm an attorney, I'm not licensed in Florida and I have not done the legal research of what elimination of RCID would mean for mill rates, I would assume that there would be new governing rules regarding mill rates. Right now, presumably the mill rate is established by the City of Bay Lake pursuant to the authority of RCID. If it is statutory authority or county ordinances, some law will control the municipal mill rate. Another problem I am having in order to answer this question completely is historical knowledge of mill rates in the local county jurisdictions, town, village and/or cities.

If the mill rate increases with dissolution of RCID, the natural consequence is an increase in property taxes. But, if any increase in taxes may be tempered by a loss of value in the property interests. Of course, most people do not like losing value in their property for purposes of borrowing or resale, etc.

 

[Marionnette]

Not true. As I posted earlier -- "Under current Florida statutes, the debts and assets of a special district that is dissolved are passed to the municipal government that takes over."

Wouldn't Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake be the "municipalities" that take over? Those are the two incorporated towns within the RCID.

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

Wouldn't Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake be the "municipalities" that take over? Those are the two incorporated towns within the RCID.

I thought Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista are incorporated as cities.

 

[Sandisw]

Property taxes, for general purposes, are established by appraised value of the property and the mill rate (or sometimes called millage rates). The property value is appraised by an assessor. The mill rate is established by the local governmental entity.

Although I'm an attorney, I'm not licensed in Florida and I have not done the legal research of what elimination of RCID would mean for mill rates, I would assume that there would be new governing rules regarding mill rates. Right now, presumably the mill rate is established by the City of Bay Lake pursuant to the authority of RCID. If it is statutory authority or county ordinances, some law will control the municipal mill rate. Another problem I am having in order to answer this question completely is historical knowledge of mill rates in the local county jurisdictions, town, village and/or cities.

If the mill rate increases with dissolution of RCID, the natural consequence is an increase in property taxes. But, if any increase in taxes may be tempered by a loss of value in the property interests. Of course, most people do not like losing value in their property for purposes of borrowing or resale, etc.

Thanks for the detailed explanation but that is along what I was thinking but We won’t know until it all goes into effect.

 

[Obi-J Kenobi]

I thought Bay Lake and Lake Buena Vista are incorporated as cities.

I should further add that typically, in municipal law, there is a difference and distinction between Towns and Cities.

 

[Marionnette]

I should further add that typically, in municipal law, there is a difference and distinction between Towns and Cities.

Okay. Let me rephrase my previous question. Wouldn't Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake be the "municipalities" that take over? Those are the two incorporated cities in RCID.

Serious question because I truly do not know the answer.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

If the RCID is dissolved, and the county has to pick up costs for fire, etc., those are very likely to increase property tax rates for all residents, which in turn, would raise the rate we pay as owners as well. So, I do think there could be a potential impact.

I have been reading many articles and it appears some knowledgeable commentators think it could actually lower the property tax rates for Orange and Osceola County property owners. The bonds outstanding could be fine too. With inflation, those bonds will be paid with cheaper dollars.

Disney will have to pay revenue to the counties just like it was paying the RCID. It appears Disney was allowing an annual shortfall between the amount it paid and costs. That would cease. Disney was then just taking more from the streams of income from the Parks to fill in some of the shortfall. Instead they will have to pay the full tax bill when due. In the short term it means Disney will have to allocate a higher budget for the things the RCID handled.

Commentators say the counties are likely to take on the RCID employees. This I question because of the civil service hiring rules and compensation packages.

I think this will happen. Orange and Osceola Counties were small town operations back in 1966-67. They could not ramp up in time or pay the front loading costs to provide services. This is 55 years later and both Counties are metropolitan, professional and capable of taking this on. They do it for the other parks. Universal does not have a special district. Special Districts are not as favored as they once were for drawing new development.

Property values are likely to be a sticking point.

 

[Ms Bibbidi]

Okay. Let me rephrase my previous question. Wouldn't Lake Buena Vista and Bay Lake be the "municipalities" that take over? Those are the two incorporated cities in RCID.

Serious question because I truly do not know the answer.

You are only talking about maybe 50 residents at most. They would make some arrangement to be under the County level for these services or dissolve their incorporated city status.

 

[redboat45]

Wouldn't it be Disney's taxes that go up? Disney has no police department to my knowledge, only private security which they would still be responsible for their own expenses. I believe they contract with local sheriff's depts for police services which they would still need to do to ensure the safety of their guests, otherwise the local department would just provide less manpower and resources to the property. This was an unforced error and is not a good thing for Disney at all in a zillion different ways. In my opinion all businesses should stay out of politics altogether, more so today. There is no upside.

Yes. Disney will have to pay a lot more in taxes.

 

[DonMacGregor]

You are only talking about maybe 50 residents at most. They would make some arrangement to be under the County level for these services or dissolve their incorporated city status.

Or move...LOL

 

[soniam]

I believe this is almost certainly going to pass, neither side can back down and will never see eye to eye. I'm sure it will affect DVC in a multitude of minor ways. I see a lot of concern about how it's going to be responsible for an increase in taxes, but how is it that Universal is so different and not an issue? I'm not asking a leading question, I really don't know why Disney is so different than Universal, which has functioned without the same benefit since inception.

Universal has to ask permission for infrastructure. Epic Universe hasn't been too bad so far for the roads, since the city and county want their business. But let's say Disney angers their new overlords, like what happened in Anaheim a few years ago, then the cities/counties can then refuse to help. Also, the roads around Universal are a bit of a nightmare. Also, Universal didn't really have much capacity to expand until recently, so they didn't need as much new infrastructure.