Idea to improve DAS

[cmwade77]

Yeah, the more I read, the more it seems like the new system is set up to address one issue and one issue alone, and anybody with any other need is just on their own to fend for themselves, maybe with whatever help any CM they happen to be able to flag down feels the whim to give them.

I agree, those that need alternate waits should get something similar to what there is now or what I suggest in my original post and all others get the old GAC with a stamp that tells the CMs what the needs are, such as low vision, etc.

Right now things are not being applied equally.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I'm a little late to the discussion and the thread is a bit confusing. I read the first and last pages. As I understand the OP's proposal. I:
1- Go to a ride, show my DAS and then get admitted immediately.
2- Then at the exit, they note on my DAS the next time I am allowed to ride anything in order to make up for the wait I skipped.
3- At that time I go to my next ride and the process repeats.

If that is correct, I have some concerns/problems.
1- How does the CM at the exit know I have a DAS?
2- How does the CM at the next ride, which may have a short wait, know I have a DAS and therefor need to wait?
3- How does any CM determine that my DW, DD, SIL and my cousin skipped a wait on the first ride and have to wait before going on anything else?
And those don't even consider the fact that we all could spend our line time eating counter service or shopping.

I just don't see Disney going for this process.

 

[cmwade77]

I'm a little late to the discussion and the thread is a bit confusing. I read the first and last pages. As I understand the OP's proposal. I:
1- Go to a ride, show my DAS and then get admitted immediately.
2- Then at the exit, they note on my DAS the next time I am allowed to ride anything in order to make up for the wait I skipped.
3- At that time I go to my next ride and the process repeats.

If that is correct, I have some concerns/problems.
1- How does the CM at the exit know I have a DAS?
2- How does the CM at the next ride, which may have a short wait, know I have a DAS and therefor need to wait?
3- How does any CM determine that my DW, DD, SIL and my cousin skipped a wait on the first ride and have to wait before going on anything else?
And those don't even consider the fact that we all could spend our line time eating counter service or shopping.

I just don't see Disney going for this process.

This has been explained throughout the thread, but it is probably good to reiterate the system.

• You go to on a ride
• You show your DAS
• The CM writes the Time you arrived, the standby wait time and the time your pass will next be valid at (based on adding the length of the ride and the length of the standby line together and add it to your arrival time) and admits you to the queue
• You ride the attraction
• You wait until the next valid time before going on the next ride. The next valid time would be exactly the length of the standby line.

You would not show the pass to anyone after exiting the ride, as the wait time was already written when getting in line. This means that the time you already waited, plus the time you are waiting after getting off the ride would be exactly equal to the standby line, assuming the posted standby line time is correct.

The current system would allow you do other things while waiting, you are simply waiting before the ride right now, which poses all sorts of logistical problems that we are seeing happen right now. My system shifts that wait to after the ride.

Yes, the first ride has little to no wait; however, you generally have somewhat of a wait to get the DAS and don't forget to factor in that those who need the assistance move slower, etc.

I have had the occasion to speak with those in charge at the other parks that use the system that I have suggested feel that these factors accounts for the lack of wait on the first attraction. Two U.S. parks that I know of that use the system I suggest are Universal Studios Hollywood and Sea World San Diego.

I do not know how other parks in Florida outside Disney handles things, but I do know these two parks very well.

 

[curemyreed]

To the OP: I have been mulling over your suggested DAS system and I really like how it eliminates the back-tracking required with the current DAS system.

To those using wheelchairs: Thank you for going into detailed explanations as to how the current DAS system is causing you to wait longer than stand-by line riders. I was not aware of this potential situation and having descriptions allowed me to absolutely understand. I find this really troubling and I am sorry it is happening. I hope Disney becomes of aware of it soon and fixes the problem.

 

[SueM in MN]

This has been explained throughout the thread, but it is probably good to reiterate the system.

• You go to on a ride
• You show your DAS
• The CM writes the Time you arrived, the standby wait time and the time your pass will next be valid at (based on adding the length of the ride and the length of the standby line together and add it to your arrival time) and admits you to the queue
• You ride the attraction
• You wait until the next valid time before going on the next ride. The next valid time would be exactly the length of the standby line.

You would not show the pass to anyone after exiting the ride, as the wait time was already written when getting in line. This means that the time you already waited, plus the time you are waiting after getting off the ride would be exactly equal to the standby line, assuming the posted standby line time is correct.

The current system would allow you do other things while waiting, you are simply waiting before the ride right now, which poses all sorts of logistical problems that we are seeing happen right now. My system shifts that wait to after the ride.

Yes, the first ride has little to no wait; however, you generally have somewhat of a wait to get the DAS and don't forget to factor in that those who need the assistance move slower, etc.

I have had the occasion to speak with those in charge at the other parks that use the system that I have suggested feel that these factors accounts for the lack of wait on the first attraction. Two U.S. parks that I know of that use the system I suggest are Universal Studios Hollywood and Sea World San Diego.

I do not know how other parks in Florida outside Disney handles things, but I do know these two parks very well.

Universal and Islands of Adventure in Orlando use essentially the same system as the DAS that Disney just began using.
They do allow the guest to enter the attraction immediately if the wait is20 minutes or less from what I have heard.
Sea World in Orlando just started issuing return times similar to Disney's DAS system?

 

[Bean786]

Universal and Islands of Adventure in Orlando use essentially the same system as the DAS that Disney just began using. They do allow the guest to enter the attraction immediately if the wait is20 minutes or less from what I have heard. Sea World in Orlando just started issuing return times similar to Disney's DAS system?

Seaworld is 20 or less.. Quick queue. Also you can stack your return times. But you have to back within an hour of your return time.

 

[CPT Tripss]

OK, I was piggy backing on the exit suggestion. So how about concerns 2 & 3? What stops me or my traveling companions from just hopping on another ride?

ETA: I guess my question is, if I don't offer my DAS, how does anyone know I have one? In the existing system, it really doesn't matter. In the proposed system, it does matter as I can game the system by only selectively using my DAS.

 

[cmwade77]

OK, I was piggy backing on the exit suggestion. So how about concerns 2 & 3? What stops me or my traveling companions from just hopping on another ride?

ETA: I guess my question is, if I don't offer my DAS, how does anyone know I have one? In the existing system, it really doesn't matter. In the proposed system, it does matter as I can game the system by only selectively using my DAS.

Actually, the current system already allows you to do this already. For example, with the current system, if you have a return time of 2:00 for Indiana Jones and Jungle Cruise only has a 5 minute wait at 1:40, there is nothing stopping you from going on Jungle Cruise while waiting for the 2:00 return time of Indiana Jones. Under the system I propose, nothing would change as far as this goes, except that you would go on Indiana Jones first, then ride Jungle Cruise while waiting for the 2:00 time that you could next use your pass. What would change is that you would not need to go to a kiosk to get a return time and instead of waiting the standby line + 15 to 30 minute (depending on if you can do stairs or not), you will have waited exactly the length of the standby line. Again, assuming the posted wait time is correct.

That being said, I don't think it is gaming the system, if Disney intentionally designed it to work this way, so that you can go on other rides while waiting your turn. Based on the phone calls I have had, it was indeed intentionally designed this way and they have encouraged me to go on other attractions or to shows while waiting for my return time and have told others that I know the same thing. As a result, I wouldn't mind if the wait is even slightly longer (up to about 10 minutes) than other guests, but I do mind if it is 15+ minutes more than other guests. And in some cases, it is double to triple the length of the standby line. So, that is why I suggest what I have to equalize the wait times, not to mention the other factors, such as distance walked (by any member of the party), return times close to park closing, etc.

 

[KPeveler]

OK, I was piggy backing on the exit suggestion. So how about concerns 2 & 3? What stops me or my traveling companions from just hopping on another ride?

ETA: I guess my question is, if I don't offer my DAS, how does anyone know I have one? In the existing system, it really doesn't matter. In the proposed system, it does matter as I can game the system by only selectively using my DAS.

I still do not know how people at the exit would be able to write anything on the GAC, and in most locations in Disneyland, that is where a guest would be entering. The guest at the exit of any Fantasyland attraction dark ride, and indeed most CMs at the exits are not allowed to take their hand off the Emergency Stop (e-stop) button. They certainly would not be allowed to stop and write times down.

I understand CMWade when you said that the person at the line entrance would write down the wait time, but again, there is no one at the line entrance on most Fantasyland rides, and I cannot access the entrance anyway. Only if they were in a place all wheelchairs could access would it work, and there would need to be someone at end of line at all times.

There is no one at end of line for many attractions once there is overflow, or I cannot find the end of line, or it involves stairs.

So it would not save on labor costs - it would require more Cast Members. I also checked, and my wife confirmed when she was working any part of Splash Mountain except maybe FP return, she had no idea what the current wait time was.

Also, here is my way to beat the system, under your switched around system. I am using an average Saturday in the off season as a guide (the times I have seen posted for the last two weekends or so):

Let's say I want to ride Space Mountain - I ride Snow White, which has a wait time of 15 minutes. It is noon. There is no line of people waiting when I get there (pretty much ever). I am allowed to enter the next ride at 12:15. I ride Space Mountain, which has a stand-by time of 75 minutes. I am given a time for the next ride at 1:30. I then go eat lunch and rest.

I decide next I want to ride Star Tours, so I go on Pinocchio's Daring Adventures at 1:30, which has a wait time of 10 minutes. I am given a time of 1:40 to ride. I then to go to Star Tours, which has a wait time of 60 minutes. I can enter the next ride at 2:40

I ride that, then I go wait in the standby line for Buzz Lightyear, which has a wait time of 20 minutes. This queue is accessible, so I do not show my DAS. To the CMs, I am just like any other wheelchair user. They do not know I am supposed to be "in line" for something else. By the time Buzz Lightyear is done, my next ride time has arrived.

I go ride Jungle Cruise at 2:40, with a wait time of 30 minutes. I can enter the next ride at 3:10. I need the wheelchair boat, so by the time the boat gets there, loads me, cycles, and unloads me, 20 minutes have gone by. It is now 3:00. I now have 10 minutes to go to the bathroom, then present myself to Indiana Jones at 3:10, with a wait time of 70 minutes. This means my next entrance time is 4:20. I go right in, knowing this is a slow loader. It is usually about 20 minutes before I reach the ride, 30 by the time I exit. It is now nearly 5 o'clock.

In what I just described, I went on Snow White, Space Mountain, Pinocchio, Star Tours, Buzz Lightyear, Jungle Cruise, and Indiana Jones between the hours of 12 noon and 5 o'clock. I have also had time to eat and go to the bathroom. Technically if you add up the wait times for all the attractions for the stand-by queue that able bodied people use, the total wait time would be 280 minutes (I am including the waiting for Buzz Lightyear). This is 4.667 hours, or 4 hours and 40 minutes.

That means I have ridden 7 attractions between the hours of 12 and 5, which should have made me wait for all but 20 minutes of that time. And we all know that the combined ride times of the above rides is more than 20 minutes.

I will spend the rest of my day "leap-frogging" around the park, using my DAS for something with a very short wait in order to gain immediate or nearly immediate access to a ride with a longer wait.

This is my concern for what happens if they switched the system around. I already have to wheel in circles with the new system, so I would just keep doing it.

The DAS system as it is does not currently work right - yet. But it took me about 5 minutes of thinking to come up with a system on how to beat the "wait after" system. I know it should sound the same as the "wait before" but it does not work the same way. Right now the attraction I choose has no bearing on what comes next. If the system flip-flopped, all I have to do is put a short wait before a long one, and plan the "everything else" (shows where the DAS does not apply, food, resting in First Aid, parades, Fantasmic, etc) for the remainder of the "long wait" rides.

The current system needs to be tweaked, and there really really needs to be a system in place for people who have concerns beyond waiting in line - like those with vision impairments. Right now I am suggesting to people who need to be in a certain place due to a disability (front row, on an end, reflective captioning, etc) that they check in with a show while the previous show is going on. Some theatres open very early (Magical Map in DLR up to 30 minutes before the show even starts) and there is no hope of getting seats near the front unless the guest is either literally first in line (families run to get up front) or they check in the show before, and ask that the front row be saved for them.

I am not certain how to fix the system - I do know that in DLR they need to make major changes to the system for wheelchairs at the top 9 rides.

I also know that I am not specialer than anyone else, and I should wait my turn, but I will not wait longer every single time - and it really is because of the wheelchair.

Perhaps they should have put off changing the wheelchair return system until the DAS was well tested.

 

[KPeveler]

Tha ada does not require disney or any other company to provide quicker line service .
I am in know way judging someones disabilities or to saying one is greater than the other .but to keep harping on how some cant enjoy themself if they have to wait is absurd.
Disney made this change because of massive abuse of the gac.
It is impossible for disney to accommodate every disability.
Should I complain because disney has not made a ride like space mountain acessable to my child, no I will simply enjoy the ones that they have made acessable to him.
Disney still goes over and beyond what the ada requires. For that we will contiune to vacation at disney.
I posted the previous post without thinking I know that you can have disability and still ride space mountain.
It is the sense of entitlement that some of the posters have that makes me upset

I never did say that the ADA required Disney to allow quicker ride times. What the ADA does require is that I am allowed equal access, which means safe access. Yes, DCA has ramps, but it also has more queues in the sun. And my body, among many other issues, cannot handle heat/sun. So I do not mind waiting my turn, but if I tried to do it in most of the standard queues, I would spike a fever and pass out (again, one example). Being told a time to come back, and then waiting somewhere safe for me - that is equal.

What we are saying is NOT equal is going to Racers, seeing a 120 minute standby time, then being sent into a 30 minute FP/wheelchair queue, meaning I wait 150 minutes.

Most attractions have waits in and after the FP queue, and apparently those are not being taken into account under the new system - we are being given times equal to the entire line, not the entire line minus what we are going to have to wait in upon return.

I know there would not be an exact science, but subtracting more than 10 minutes, which is at least how long it takes me to push myself from place to place, would seem appropriate.

 

[barrysprot36]

Universal and Islands of Adventure in Orlando use essentially the same system as the DAS that Disney just began using. They do allow the guest to enter the attraction immediately if the wait is20 minutes or less from what I have heard. Sea World in Orlando just started issuing return times similar to Disney's DAS system?

Universal allow the guest immediate entrance to the attraction if the wait is 30 minutes or less. Otherwise the return time given is the regular line less 30 minutes. Our experience with this a few years ago was that the CMs needed more mathematical training as some had difficulty subtracting 30 minutes to give the return time.

 

[SueM in MN]

Universal allow the guest immediate entrance to the attraction if the wait is 30 minutes or less. Otherwise the return time given is the regular line less 30 minutes. Our experience with this a few years ago was that the CMs needed more mathematical training as some had difficulty subtracting 30 minutes to give the return time.

Different people (including people who work at Universal recently) have given times of everything from 15-30 minutes. I averaged it to 20.

 

[babydoll65]

I still do not know how people at the exit would be able to write anything on the GAC, and in most locations in Disneyland, that is where a guest would be entering. The guest at the exit of any Fantasyland attraction dark ride, and indeed most CMs at the exits are not allowed to take their hand off the Emergency Stop (e-stop) button. They certainly would not be allowed to stop and write times down.

I understand CMWade when you said that the person at the line entrance would write down the wait time, but again, there is no one at the line entrance on most Fantasyland rides, and I cannot access the entrance anyway. Only if they were in a place all wheelchairs could access would it work, and there would need to be someone at end of line at all times.

There is no one at end of line for many attractions once there is overflow, or I cannot find the end of line, or it involves stairs.

So it would not save on labor costs - it would require more Cast Members. I also checked, and my wife confirmed when she was working any part of Splash Mountain except maybe FP return, she had no idea what the current wait time was.

Also, here is my way to beat the system, under your switched around system. I am using an average Saturday in the off season as a guide (the times I have seen posted for the last two weekends or so):

Let's say I want to ride Space Mountain - I ride Snow White, which has a wait time of 15 minutes. It is noon. There is no line of people waiting when I get there (pretty much ever). I am allowed to enter the next ride at 12:15. I ride Space Mountain, which has a stand-by time of 75 minutes. I am given a time for the next ride at 1:30. I then go eat lunch and rest.

I decide next I want to ride Star Tours, so I go on Pinocchio's Daring Adventures at 1:30, which has a wait time of 10 minutes. I am given a time of 1:40 to ride. I then to go to Star Tours, which has a wait time of 60 minutes. I can enter the next ride at 2:40

I ride that, then I go wait in the standby line for Buzz Lightyear, which has a wait time of 20 minutes. This queue is accessible, so I do not show my DAS. To the CMs, I am just like any other wheelchair user. They do not know I am supposed to be "in line" for something else. By the time Buzz Lightyear is done, my next ride time has arrived.

I go ride Jungle Cruise at 2:40, with a wait time of 30 minutes. I can enter the next ride at 3:10. I need the wheelchair boat, so by the time the boat gets there, loads me, cycles, and unloads me, 20 minutes have gone by. It is now 3:00. I now have 10 minutes to go to the bathroom, then present myself to Indiana Jones at 3:10, with a wait time of 70 minutes. This means my next entrance time is 4:20. I go right in, knowing this is a slow loader. It is usually about 20 minutes before I reach the ride, 30 by the time I exit. It is now nearly 5 o'clock.

In what I just described, I went on Snow White, Space Mountain, Pinocchio, Star Tours, Buzz Lightyear, Jungle Cruise, and Indiana Jones between the hours of 12 noon and 5 o'clock. I have also had time to eat and go to the bathroom. Technically if you add up the wait times for all the attractions for the stand-by queue that able bodied people use, the total wait time would be 280 minutes (I am including the waiting for Buzz Lightyear). This is 4.667 hours, or 4 hours and 40 minutes.

That means I have ridden 7 attractions between the hours of 12 and 5, which should have made me wait for all but 20 minutes of that time. And we all know that the combined ride times of the above rides is more than 20 minutes.

I will spend the rest of my day "leap-frogging" around the park, using my DAS for something with a very short wait in order to gain immediate or nearly immediate access to a ride with a longer wait.

This is my concern for what happens if they switched the system around. I already have to wheel in circles with the new system, so I would just keep doing it.

The DAS system as it is does not currently work right - yet. But it took me about 5 minutes of thinking to come up with a system on how to beat the "wait after" system. I know it should sound the same as the "wait before" but it does not work the same way. Right now the attraction I choose has no bearing on what comes next. If the system flip-flopped, all I have to do is put a short wait before a long one, and plan the "everything else" (shows where the DAS does not apply, food, resting in First Aid, parades, Fantasmic, etc) for the remainder of the "long wait" rides.

The current system needs to be tweaked, and there really really needs to be a system in place for people who have concerns beyond waiting in line - like those with vision impairments. Right now I am suggesting to people who need to be in a certain place due to a disability (front row, on an end, reflective captioning, etc) that they check in with a show while the previous show is going on. Some theatres open very early (Magical Map in DLR up to 30 minutes before the show even starts) and there is no hope of getting seats near the front unless the guest is either literally first in line (families run to get up front) or they check in the show before, and ask that the front row be saved for them.

I am not certain how to fix the system - I do know that in DLR they need to make major changes to the system for wheelchairs at the top 9 rides.

I also know that I am not specialer than anyone else, and I should wait my turn, but I will not wait longer every single time - and it really is because of the wheelchair.

Perhaps they should have put off changing the wheelchair return system until the DAS was well tested.

I was saying this same scenario on pg 6. With the ability to still have fast passes it seems you could just use rides with smaller wait times to gain entrance to ride with much larger wait times. I believe disney will adjust issues with the DAS as more and more complaints come in but right now with the magic bands and fp+ problems they have been having I guess one issue at a time. Maybe the DAS card should look similar to a kttw card, then take the fp machines there about to remove and turn them into DAS return time machines. You could put your card in and the mach would take the standby wait time,minus 15 minutes and print out a ticket to be used for that ride then just get into the fp line. Would eliminate cms holding up lines trying to write times on cards.

 

[SueM in MN]

I still do not know how people at the exit would be able to write anything on the GAC, and in most locations in Disneyland, that is where a guest would be entering. The guest at the exit of any Fantasyland attraction dark ride, and indeed most CMs at the exits are not allowed to take their hand off the Emergency Stop (e-stop) button. They certainly would not be allowed to stop and write times down.

I understand CMWade when you said that the person at the line entrance would write down the wait time, but again, there is no one at the line entrance on most Fantasyland rides, and I cannot access the entrance anyway. Only if they were in a place all wheelchairs could access would it work, and there would need to be someone at end of line at all times.

There is no one at end of line for many attractions once there is overflow, or I cannot find the end of line, or it involves stairs.

So it would not save on labor costs - it would require more Cast Members. I also checked, and my wife confirmed when she was working any part of Splash Mountain except maybe FP return, she had no idea what the current wait time was.

Also, here is my way to beat the system, under your switched around system. I am using an average Saturday in the off season as a guide (the times I have seen posted for the last two weekends or so):

Let's say I want to ride Space Mountain - I ride Snow White, which has a wait time of 15 minutes. It is noon. There is no line of people waiting when I get there (pretty much ever). I am allowed to enter the next ride at 12:15. I ride Space Mountain, which has a stand-by time of 75 minutes. I am given a time for the next ride at 1:30. I then go eat lunch and rest.

I decide next I want to ride Star Tours, so I go on Pinocchio's Daring Adventures at 1:30, which has a wait time of 10 minutes. I am given a time of 1:40 to ride. I then to go to Star Tours, which has a wait time of 60 minutes. I can enter the next ride at 2:40

I ride that, then I go wait in the standby line for Buzz Lightyear, which has a wait time of 20 minutes. This queue is accessible, so I do not show my DAS. To the CMs, I am just like any other wheelchair user. They do not know I am supposed to be "in line" for something else. By the time Buzz Lightyear is done, my next ride time has arrived.

I go ride Jungle Cruise at 2:40, with a wait time of 30 minutes. I can enter the next ride at 3:10. I need the wheelchair boat, so by the time the boat gets there, loads me, cycles, and unloads me, 20 minutes have gone by. It is now 3:00. I now have 10 minutes to go to the bathroom, then present myself to Indiana Jones at 3:10, with a wait time of 70 minutes. This means my next entrance time is 4:20. I go right in, knowing this is a slow loader. It is usually about 20 minutes before I reach the ride, 30 by the time I exit. It is now nearly 5 o'clock.

In what I just described, I went on Snow White, Space Mountain, Pinocchio, Star Tours, Buzz Lightyear, Jungle Cruise, and Indiana Jones between the hours of 12 noon and 5 o'clock. I have also had time to eat and go to the bathroom. Technically if you add up the wait times for all the attractions for the stand-by queue that able bodied people use, the total wait time would be 280 minutes (I am including the waiting for Buzz Lightyear). This is 4.667 hours, or 4 hours and 40 minutes.

That means I have ridden 7 attractions between the hours of 12 and 5, which should have made me wait for all but 20 minutes of that time. And we all know that the combined ride times of the above rides is more than 20 minutes.

I will spend the rest of my day "leap-frogging" around the park, using my DAS for something with a very short wait in order to gain immediate or nearly immediate access to a ride with a longer wait.

This is my concern for what happens if they switched the system around. I already have to wheel in circles with the new system, so I would just keep doing it.

The DAS system as it is does not currently work right - yet. But it took me about 5 minutes of thinking to come up with a system on how to beat the "wait after" system. I know it should sound the same as the "wait before" but it does not work the same way. Right now the attraction I choose has no bearing on what comes next. If the system flip-flopped, all I have to do is put a short wait before a long one, and plan the "everything else" (shows where the DAS does not apply, food, resting in First Aid, parades, Fantasmic, etc) for the remainder of the "long wait" rides.

The current system needs to be tweaked, and there really really needs to be a system in place for people who have concerns beyond waiting in line - like those with vision impairments. Right now I am suggesting to people who need to be in a certain place due to a disability (front row, on an end, reflective captioning, etc) that they check in with a show while the previous show is going on. Some theatres open very early (Magical Map in DLR up to 30 minutes before the show even starts) and there is no hope of getting seats near the front unless the guest is either literally first in line (families run to get up front) or they check in the show before, and ask that the front row be saved for them.

I am not certain how to fix the system - I do know that in DLR they need to make major changes to the system for wheelchairs at the top 9 rides.

I also know that I am not specialer than anyone else, and I should wait my turn, but I will not wait longer every single time - and it really is because of the wheelchair.

Perhaps they should have put off changing the wheelchair return system until the DAS was well tested.

The bolded was what I also thought of and wrote about when this idea was first proposed on the other thread.
With the way the DAS is currently set up, the order of attractions doesn't matter, with 'wait after' it does.
Disney is encouraging people to do other things, including attractions with short waits, while waiting for the next DAS Return Time to arrive. So, that part is expected,but the order of attraction doesn't matter with the current DAS and would with this.

Also, one of the issues DLR had was with people with GACs at headliner attractions. I don't think the 'wait after' would solve their issues at those attractions. And may make it worse - people showing up at Radiator Springs Racers at DLR expecting immediate access because with a 'wait after' system, they will not be waiting before.
I know Disney was aware of different systems in use for guests with disabilities, so I'm sure they considered the 'wait after' option. It may work well in places that are less busy or have less headline attractions.

WDW and DLR are very different, especially in terms of Mainstream Lines and number of attractions with Fastpass. So things may work a little differently, even with the same system. Disney also has a lot more data available than is just in the wait times in the apps (especially at WDW).

I think with some tweaks, the current DAS system will work.
After a process change is made, there is going to be a time period where it is getting stabilized. After that period, the data is analyzed again and changes made based on the data. DAS hasn't even been in effect yet for a month, so I would not expect any changes yet unless something is so obviously not working.

The stamps for GACs had issues before - one was that there were competing stamps on some people's GAC. Another was that the stamps were very general.
I'm sure the idea to get rid of those stamps and handle those needs at the attraction works in theory, but one of the issues in practice is how is a guest to know what is available?
There is also a lot of room for issues - do CMs all know what is available and what fits different needs? Do people feel comfortable asking for the assistance they need and are CMs making them feel welcome with asking?
Is the CM being told about the needs the appropriate person who can make sure those needs are met? (From issues people have mentioned, there are too many CMs needing to be involved in being told the needs).

I think (just my thought) that once WDW completely rolls out RFID and My Disney Magic, they will probably handle those invisible needs that had specific stamps by adding the information to the file that Magicbands and RFID cards access at attractions. That way, information about what the guest said they needed at Guest Relations could be matched at the attraction with what is available there.

 

[mistysue]

I definitely agree that the proposed system opens the door to "gaming" the system by alternating short and long waits to essentially never wait- creating the same issue that the GAC did.

I also completely agree that disabilities that create a physical barrier and necessitate alternate loading (and increased wait) issues do need to be treated differently from disabilities that do not effect boarding. If you got a written wait time, immediately ride and you are already past that wait time it is very different from those who are given a wait time, enter through the FP line and then have an hour to spare. That is horribly unfair to have to wait you turn, then get into a huge additional wait. I wonder if Disney were to just allow immediate access to a separate boarding line, if it would give them a more accurate ability to judge how long the alternate line was. This may result in more accessible vehicles in the long run.

 

[cmwade77]

That's why I had suggested that Disney may need to add in the length of the ride when calculating the next time an attraction is available.

If there is a 10 minute or shorter wait (some CMs allow this for up to a 20 minute wait) for an attraction, they don't look too see if you have an active return time on your DAS. So you are currently able to do what KPEVELER suggests, just by changing the order. It does add a ton of extra traveling though and we all know how much longer it can take those of us who need assistance to get through the parks, so that may limit the practicality of doing this under either scenario.

As a result, I really don't see how it's opening the door to more abuse or making the system any more like the old GAC. It is just solving the issues that exist with this system.

Also, as I stated under my system, everyone, including those with only mobility issues would need a card. They could have two versions, one for mobility entrances only and one for akternate entrances, but that opens the door to abuse. The card would need to be scanned at all attractions that don't have a mainstreamed queue.

As for how they would know how long the line is, they would simply look up at the posted standby time. You would basically always speak to a CM near the entrance of the attraction first and they would be the one to write the time down, yes they would write the attraction name down to and you would be given a reasonable amount of time to get to the accessible entrance after that.

Yes, something would need to be done for Fantasyland. Perhaps there they would need a kiosk that writes the times down and they give you a certain amount of time to get to the attraction, but this would really only affect Peter Pan, Mr. Toad's Wild Ride, Alice in Wonderland and Pinocchio. The other attractions would not have this operational concern.

But perhaps there are other ways to solve the issues as well.

Here are the main issues with the current system, as I see it:
Traveling further than guests that don't need assistance to get the assistance needed.

CMs not wanting to give return times close to closing, even though the standby line is open.

Guests who need assistance are constantly waiting longer than guests that don't need assistance and by a substantial amount in many cases.

There are guests with certain disabilities that don't understand why they can't just go on an attraction when they see it.

 

[disney david]

This is for wdw only for now until Disney land get RFID if they ever do



Hey just came out with a pamphlet/guide for fast pass plus kiosk locations where you can go and see your reservations and make same day ones. I saw a pic of mk and their was a good amount now if they made das RFID and be able to make return times via computer screen I think bag would help. I stead of having to go to the ride you go to one of those locations it know by the scan wheatear it a fast pass plus or das and give you the screen to need. And let's say each land had I e the. You could make let say three for that land then once you use the three you could go to the next kiosk or be able to make one in each land. So now you still will have to wait like das is meant to be used but you could plan your day he fast pass plus or change them to fit around the das. Do other stuff and not have to go to the ride and deal with why can't we ride now problems people complaining about.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Here are the main issues with the current system, as I see it:
Traveling further than guests that don't need assistance to get the assistance needed.

CMs not wanting to give return times close to closing, even though the standby line is open.

Guests who need assistance are constantly waiting longer than guests that don't need assistance and by a substantial amount in many cases.

There are guests with certain disabilities that don't understand why they can't just go on an attraction when they see it.

With the exception of CMs not wanting to give return times, the suggested change won't fix any of the other problems listed. Two are physical design issues and the last one doesn't seem solvable short of a front of line pass for every attraction.

 

[BroganMc]

With the exception of CMs not wanting to give return times, the suggested change won't fix any of the other problems listed. Two are physical design issues and the last one doesn't seem solvable short of a front of line pass for every attraction.

I disagree. Let me illustrate:

Traveling further than guests that don't need assistance to get the assistance needed.

cmwade77 refers to under DAS you will go to an attraction twice to ride it. Once to get a Return Time and again to redeem that Return Time. For people with mobility issues this can become a significant hardship because they're traveling twice for something a non-disabled guest travels once to achieve. For cognitive-impaired guests, this forces families to split up to get Return Times and have to find each other to resume touring.

The proposed system allows the disabled person to only visit an attraction once to experience it, then tacks on the necessary wait time after so they won't go to another attraction until their blackout period is over.

CMs not wanting to give return times close to closing, even though the standby line is open.

You agreed cmwade's system addresses this.

Guests who need assistance are constantly waiting longer than guests that don't need assistance and by a substantial amount in many cases.

Let's take a guest who needs the wheelchair car. They go to TSM and get a Return Time of 90 minutes. They return 90 minutes later, then encounter a wheelchair line of 30 minutes. They have now spent 2 hrs to experience TSM whereas guests without the need of the wheelchair car can do it in 1.5 hrs.

This system builds that wheelchair line wait into the Blackout Ride time. So now the wheelchair guest is admitted to TSM, waits 30 minutes to experience the attraction, and has an additional hour to wait before they can use a DAS to go on another attraction. Time spend doing TSM for wheelchair guest now equals the time for all other non-wheelchair guests: 90 minutes.

There are guests with certain disabilities that don't understand why they can't just go on an attraction when they see it.

Agreed, this proposed system only assists that guest on the first attraction UNLESS you consider the guest is unaware why they are waiting to go on something else. All that autistic child will see is that they go on Ride A, then parents lead them somewhere else for an hour or so, then go on Ride B. It's a perceptual change that better manages the conditions of that disability.

 

[lovethattink]

I disagree. Let me illustrate:



cmwade77 refers to under DAS you will go to an attraction twice to ride it. Once to get a Return Time and again to redeem that Return Time. For people with mobility issues this can become a significant hardship because they're traveling twice for something a non-disabled guest travels once to achieve. For cognitive-impaired guests, this forces families to split up to get Return Times and have to find each other to resume touring.

The proposed system allows the disabled person to only visit an attraction once to experience it, then tacks on the necessary wait time after so they won't go to another attraction until their blackout period is over.



You agreed cmwade's system addresses this.



Let's take a guest who needs the wheelchair car. They go to TSM and get a Return Time of 90 minutes. They return 90 minutes later, then encounter a wheelchair line of 30 minutes. They have now spent 2 hrs to experience TSM whereas guests without the need of the wheelchair car can do it in 1.5 hrs.

This system builds that wheelchair line wait into the Blackout Ride time. So now the wheelchair guest is admitted to TSM, waits 30 minutes to experience the attraction, and has an additional hour to wait before they can use a DAS to go on another attraction. Time spend doing TSM for wheelchair guest now equals the time for all other non-wheelchair guests: 90 minutes.



Agreed, this proposed system only assists that guest on the first attraction UNLESS you consider the guest is unaware why they are waiting to go on something else. All that autistic child will see is that they go on Ride A, then parents lead them somewhere else for an hour or so, then go on Ride B. It's a perceptual change that better manages the conditions of that disability.

After all the explanations, I FINALLY understand the proposed changes.


While it's extremely rare for me to take my son to a park alone, this would work when it's just the 2 of us and no runner to get the return time. Plus only going to an attraction once instead of twice makes a lot more sense.