I Was Totally Wrong

[dbm20th]

And yet again you fail to address Mr. Pirates central issue - Disney was a company that used to pour all its efforts into making the best products they could - yet today they are simple content go along with "the flow" and lower themselves to the common demoniator. It's not "ESPN the best coverage possible"; it's "ESPN, we're better than the guy who does professional bowling".

And as per usual you have glossed over my points and only defended your own.

I'll repeat...

How many people have settled for Dumbo, Astro-Orbiter, or some silly carousel for years and years, and then kill the current crew for TS not being imaginative?

 

[raidermatt]

Yes they do and yes they do.

There's nothing to argue about, because you know its not true.

I don't feel a lot of "love" was put into taking carnival rides and masking them as tea cups, elephants, or rocket ships.

I ask this seriously... what have you read on the creation of Disneyland?

 

[MJMcBride]

There's nothing to argue about, because you know its not true.

But it is true

 

[dbm20th]

I ask this seriously... what have you read on the creation of Disneyland?

Much, too much. But that doesn't change what they are. They are midway rides themed well. The theme appeals to you while othjers do not. That doesn't chnage that they are midway rides

 

[MJMcBride]

Much, too much. But that doesn't change what they are. They are midway rides themed well. The theme appeals to you while othjers do not. That doesn't chnage that they are midway rides

Exactly. The carousel is basically the same one you see at state fairs.

 

[YoHo]

GAHHHHHHHH!!!!

Mr Pirate, Welcome to the dark side, Punch and Pie is on the left.



Everyone who starts talking about Spinners and midway rides? no punch and pie for you.

I've avoided this place for a couple weeks, because I'm basically fed up with you people.

You guys just keep adding to your snowglobe collection. We'll be here when the light goes on.

 

[Galahad]

I know there aren't too many of the old guard still around but for those who are here I think it time I publically admit I was wrong.

I was wrong right along with you Pirate.........

 

[MJMcBride]

GAHHHHHHHH!!!!

Mr Pirate, Welcome to the dark side, Punch and Pie is on the left.



Everyone who starts talking about Spinners and midway rides? no punch and pie for you.

I've avoided this place for a couple weeks, because I'm basically fed up with you people.

You guys just keep adding to your snowglobe collection. We'll be here when the light goes on.

This is exactly what I'm talking about raidermatt and cristen

 

[BRERALEX]

 

[cristen]

This is exactly what I'm talking about raidermatt and cristen

What? No where did yoho say anything about Walt being perfect.

Here's the thing, and I mean this in the kindest way. It's very hard to have a discussion with someone who is not on the same page as you.

If you can't see the difference between Walt selling everything he owned to build his dream and did what he could at that particular time, which included a spinner and a carousel (which btw, from my understanding, fantasyland was a medieval fair in the courtyard of the castle, so it fits perfectly) and a multi billion dollar company 50 years later still relying on spinners in every land as 'improvments', then how can we go any further?

 

[MJMcBride]

What? No where did yoho say anything about Walt being perfect.

Here's the thing, and I mean this in the kindest way. It's very hard to have a discussion with someone who is not on the same page as you.

If you can't see the difference between Walt selling everything he owned to build his dream and did what he could at that particular time, which included a spinner and a carousel (which btw, from my understanding, fantasyland was a medieval fair in the courtyard of the castle, so it fits perfectly) and a multi billion dollar company 50 years later still relying on spinners in every land as 'improvments', then how can we go any further?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Walt builds spinners as he's some sort of genius. Eisner builds spinners and he's the anti-christ. Listen I'm not saying the the Tricertops Spin is some great improvement to DAK. But Disney has done some nice things in recent years like Soarin', Turtle Talk, some of the resorts, the cruise line, etc.

 

[dbm20th]

Exactly. The carousel is basically the same one you see at state fairs.

In fact, they didn't even build it. It was an old carousel that was used at a carnival-style park in Maplewood, NJ. All they did was find it and restore it.

 

[Another Voice]

In fact, they didn't even build it.

You don't understand a single thing we're talking about. Too bad in all the reading you did about Disneyland you still don't understand (nor do you wish to learn).

Enjoy your snowglobes. Sit on 'Mission: Space' and tell yourself that you're thrilled beyond imgination. Wander through California Adventure and pat yourself on the back for "getting it" when all us other people are too stupid. Twirl about on your spinners and convince yourself it is better than anything Walt created. Eat dinners with princesses and trade pins and watch "Dancing with the Stars LIVE!".

Enjoy. Have a great time. Laugh at us "old timers" and wallow at everything the brand gives you today.

If you really think that since Walt didn't build a merry-go-round by hand invalidates Mr. Pirates concern that Disney isn't doing things was well as it can today, far be it from anyone to pop your bubble of ignorance.

 

[MJMcBride]

You don't understand a single thing we're talking about. Too bad in all the reading you did about Disneyland you still don't understand (nor do you wish to learn).

Enjoy your snowglobes. Sit on 'Mission: Space' and tell yourself that you're thrilled beyond imgination. Wander through California Adventure and pat yourself on the back for "getting it" when all us other people are too stupid. Twirl about on your spinners and convince yourself it is better than anything Walt created. Eat dinners with princesses and trade pins and watch "Dancing with the Stars LIVE!".

Enjoy. Have a great time. Laugh at us "old timers" and wallow at everything the brand gives you today.

If you really think that since Walt didn't build a merry-go-round by hand invalidates Mr. Pirates concern that Disney isn't doing things was well as it can today, far be it from anyone to pop your bubble of ignorance.

AV I don't think you or the rest of the so-called "element" gets it. Mission Space sucks. Pins are lame. But the "element" or whatever, continues to view things through rose-colored galsses.

Yes, Walt was a genius. Yes, Imagineering was at an all-time low. But give me a break. Walt had midway rides too. Walt did cross promoting too. Thats all we're saying. That and Disney has produced some great things in recent years. Thats it. Thats all.

And I will have a great time when I go next month. I will greatly enjoy the Haunted Mansion and Pirates. I will greatly enjoy Soarin' and Kilimanjaroo Safari too. And I'm sure to skip Mission Space and Carousel of Progress (assuming they bother opneing it).

 

[YoHo]

Good lord almighty, this is ridiculous.

Just give up, It's like we're speaking english and you're responding in African Clicking language. MJMcbride, you're responses have so little to do with what we're actually saying, that metaphysically speaking, you aren't even typing.
It's like I'm saying the sky is blue and you hear me say it's pink.

You don't understand the point on such a fundimental level that it's useless.

And I'm not trying to be mean here. This stuff happens all the time. It isn't a mark of intelligence or lack there of, but it IS frustrating as hell.

 

[dbm20th]

Good lord almighty, this is ridiculous.

Just give up, It's like we're speaking english and you're responding in African Clicking language. MJMcbride, you're responses have so little to do with what we're actually saying, that metaphysically speaking, you aren't even typing.
It's like I'm saying the sky is blue and you hear me say it's pink.

You don't understand the point on such a fundimental level that it's useless.

And I'm not trying to be mean here. This stuff happens all the time. It isn't a mark of intelligence or lack there of, but it IS frustrating as hell.

It is also frustrating that you and AV continuosly turn to insult. I understand the point just fine. We disagree, but I would never insult you or AV. no matter how ridiculous blind I may find your statements. But hey, it's all in good fun, right?

And AV, please get a grip. My point was to explain to MJ that the carousel wasn't "built" by Walt or WDI. It was the verbage HE used, not you. As hard as it may be for you to believe, but us "ignorant" people do sometimes talk to someone other than you.

 

[MJMcBride]

You don't understand the point on such a fundimental level that it's useless.

And neither apparently do you.

 

[SteveN73]

But I’m still very optimistic about the survival of Disney – the real Disney. There are too many people now who understand what it all really means. And people are the only thing that matters. It’s the spark in John Lassiter, the talent of Andrew Stanton, the enthusiasm of Brad Bird that made Pixar – not the bricks, computers and stock options. It also lives in the kid with his first video camera making movies out in the back yard. She is no different than Walt setting up his first drawing table in his uncle’s garage.

Real Disney is all around. It shows up whenever a child is touched by a fifty year old film, whenever a filmmaker says “we can make this better”, when an adult gets the momentary thrill of "playing make beleive" again. That is what we should celebrate and support.

Well said.

-Steve N.

 

[sueg]

As an observer, let me say that perception is truth. So from everyone's particular angle of vision they are right. It seems to me that the truth is somewhere in between. I hated Eisner, in the end, but he did run the company during the revival. Lion King, Alladin, Little Mermaid and Hunchback were released during that time. He was not the creative force, but he allowed them to be produced. He also allowed tripe to be produced. His decisions were bottom line decisions. Some good some bad. The company became to interested in maintaining and not growing following the original plan.

I start every trip with at least two rides on Peter Pan. I've never ridden Mission Space, and never will. That is my choice. I hated that they replaced Mr. Toad. I would love to see more attractions that stimulate the imagination.I would love to see more hand drawn movies, in fact I'd really like them to bring back Return to Neverland at the animation exhibit. But that won't happen. I don't like it but I understand, on a rational level, that I'm older than the people they need to attract as a business. I hope that they come up with fresh ideas for that group that will be stimulating.

The conflict between old and new is not the true conflict. Peter Pan is a simple ride made extraordinary by the theming. Mission Space is a spectacular concept that never was achieved. The expectations from the marketing of Ca and Mission Space left them vulnerable to failure based on those raised expectations.And that is the perception that leads to opinion that becomes entrenched.

The new regime has been in place for a few months. I'd like to see them come back to the siplicity. Maybe they can watch the original "Miracle on 34th Street " and relearn about magic.So maybe Pirate wasn't all wrong.

 

[ChrisFL]

^^Agreed sueg.

What we're facing is what Im sure much of Disney management and imagineers are facing....everyone has different ideas about what Disney is supposed to stand for.

We have the purists who believe that everything should be done the same way that Walt would have wanted, and there is valid evidence as to why, he ran the company brilliantly for its time.

Then there's those who believe that Walt's era has passed and that modern times dictate that other types of attractions need to be made. There's a lot of validity in that belief also.

I do understand how people can think of rides like the carousel and Dumbo and realize that they weren't the pinnacle of theming that other attractions are, but there were budget issues that had to be addressed just like today.

I think the main problems with modern Disney as it relates to theme parks is:

1.) Theme Parks have not been a major focus of the company as whole, or at least not a large enough focus

2.) Budgets for attractions have been slashed quite badly, not allowing the imagineers to make every attraction unique or special (consider how many recent attractions are re-doing of old ones or building copies)

3.) Corporate synergy ideals taken too far

4.) Making money becoming more important than putting on the best show possible (gift shops taking over classic places on main st., etc.)