I shouldnt be suprised at this point...

[salmoneous]

Jimmiej,

I assume you are going to get tired of my questions pretty soon - but before you sign off I just want to say again I appreciate the conversation even if I disagree.

That's OT law. It is no longer in effect for salvation after Jesus came.

No longer in effect for salvation - or no longer in effect period? It's one thing to say that we no longer need to obey the law to be saved. But it's another thing to say that the whole OT is no longer in effect. The 10 Commandments - Christians no longer need to obey those. Is that really what you are saying? If that's not what you are saying, then how do you justify picking some rules from the OT that we should still obey (the 10 Commandments) but saying that we shouldn't obey others (stoning non virgin brides)?

OK, you've got me on the silent part. Our women aren't silent in every room of the building.

But that's exactly what the Bible says - should not speak, must be silent.

No, because even if we "bend" the rule, it doesn't make it right. God doesn't wink at us.

Why are you willing to bend the rules on women being silent, but aren't willing to bend the rules on homosexuality?

9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

There are a number of ways of looking at this verse. Try this one: You'll note that Paul doesn't say homosexuals. He says homosexual offenders. Using your logic from above, isn't the implication that being a homosexual is OK, so long as you don't "offend"? A married man having a homosexual affair - that's an offense that Paul is blasting, not being homosexual per se.

But I will always defer to God's Word. Remember, God's ways are not our ways.

With all due respect, you don't always defer to God's Word. If you did, you would insist that women not speak in Church. If you did, you would insist they remain silent. Instead, you defer to a particular interpretation of God's word that you have chosen.

God's word is not nearly as cut and dried as you make it sound. From now on, as you listen to sermons and bible studies, notice how many times the lesson is more complicated that just reading the Bible and doing what it says. Notice how many times something has to be interpreted or explained.

And while I doubt you will ever come to the conclusion that there are interpretation that make being homosexual OK, perhaps you can at least decide that other Christian in good faith can come to that conclusion.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I want to make it clear that I'm not disparaging religion in general.

I just think it's hysterical that the guy who's been using the Bible to berate my homosexuality is being taken in by the shoddiest, most transparent type of spiritual hucksterism.

Most of your posts on this thread are just blatant personal attacks.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I would not expect someone so ignorant and hateful to allow that humans (yes, fallible sinful human beings) translated the words. It is impossible that no errors were made.
I think that wrapping your hateful beliefs in Christianity is a bit like putting a prom gown on a pig. It doesnt make the pig a princess and shoving your hate agenda on the rest of us doesnt make you a Christian.

Another blatant personal attack on a poster.

God's Word is love and like all loving parent's He has rules for our benefit.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I have never getten the vibe from Joe that he thinks I'm sick because I am a sinner....

Correct.

Our church and our pastor do NOT believe sickness is the result of sin in one's life.

 

[crcormier]

Though I disagree, I can understand your interpretation that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. But where does it say being attracted to and falling in love with someone of the same sex is a choice?

 

[jimmiej]

You sir, have become a sheep to religion.

Not to religion, but to Jesus. He most definitely is my Shepherd!

You blindly believe in a book

The Bible? Absolutely!!!

To say god dictated the scriptures to people, is almost as ludicrous of the idea of a mere mortal walking on water.

How do you know? I disagree.

Which presents anotherquestion, do you believe this book to the extent of believing a man walked on water?

Not a man. God in human form. Yes I do! Millions upon millions throughout the last 2000 years have also believed. I'm not unique in this.

BTW, thanks for the compliments!

Matthew 5

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Not to religion, but to Jesus. He most definitely is my Shepherd!

The Bible? Absolutely!!!

How do you know? I disagree.

Not a man. God in human form. Yes I do! Millions upon millions throughout the last 2000 years have also believed. I'm not unique in this.

BTW, thanks for the compliments!

Matthew 5

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Amen! All very well said.

 

[crcormier]

But Jimmie, I don't think the Bible allows for Naked Segway, either...

ETA you speak very well about your beliefs. But I just saw your location and HAD to comment.

 

[crcormier]

God's Word is love and like all loving parent's He has rules for our benefit.

I have no beef with that, my problem is that they are His rules and He is the one to judge us for keeping or breaking them, not us.

Still waiting for an answer from anyone on where in the Bible it says homosexuality is a choice.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I'm starting to wonder how weird this world is...this guy Joe loves Epcot too...and if I met him there, we'd have a completely different relationship talking about cultural exchanges, Norwegian girls (my favourite country by the way ) and technological advancement.

Instead, oraganized religion has eroded that similarity and we're here at our fun-fondu-let's go to your church of the month-you're wrong-i'm right until i die for my Jesus debate.

Yet, here I am debating away with a fanatical christian for hours of my life...wasted or not? I must say adieu. Real life beckons. The dogs need to be walked, my girlfriend picked up from work and I must replenish my strength in case Joe decides to take me up on my offer to visit me here and celebrate Canada day with me this weekend.

Sad that human kind has to occupy so much space in their minds and hearts with judgment and insecurity - all in the name of a god. Joe, for your sake I hope you find peace...because you're far from it now my friend. Re-read the last 50 pages and tell me if you sound content. All the best to you in your Crusade discerment, Jimmie and Joe...

I don't go to a "church of the month."

My family and I are content, at peace, and all have a very blessed life.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

I have no beef with that, my problem is that they are His rules and He is the one to judge us for keeping or breaking them, not us.

Still waiting for an answer on where in the Bible it says homosexuality is a choice.

God gave us free will.

Yes, they are His rules and He put them in a book. And if He will judge us, why not refer to His rule book when an issue comes up?

 

[NewJersey]

My family and I are content, at peace, and all have a very blessed life.

Then why can't you accept that others do, especially homosexuals. Oh, but I didn't follow the "righteous" way.

 

[JoyG]

You sir, have become a sheep to religion. You blindly believe in a book, that was written hundreds of years after the death of your savior. To say god dictated the scriptures to people, is almost as ludicrous of the idea of a mere mortal walking on water. Which presents anotherquestion, do you believe this book to the extent of believing a man walked on water?

I just wanted to pop in here and mention that it's a common misconception that the Bible was written hundreds of years after the death of Christ. In reality, the last book in the New Testament to be written was completed by around 90 A.D. Many were written much sooner than that.

http://www.carm.org/questions/written_after.htm

 

[crcormier]

God gave us free will.

Yes, they are His rules and He put them in a book. And if He will judge us, why not refer to His rule book when an issue comes up?

But where does it say homosexuality is a choice? Yes, He gave us free will, so according to your interpretation those engaging in homosexuality are choosing to sin, I get that, but where does it say that being attracted to someone of the same sex instead of someone of the different sex is a choice? You can choose how to act, but can you choose how to feel?

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

But where does it say homosexuality is a choice? Yes, He gave us free will, so according to your interpretation those engaging in homosexuality are choosing to sin, I get that, but where does it say that being attracted to someone of the same sex instead of someone of the different sex is a choice? You can choose how to act, but can you choose how to feel?

The Bible says to take thoughts contrary to the Word of God "captive." That is, do not dwell or act on them.

 

[NewJersey]

Joe, so you can understand that sexual orientation isn't a choice..please answer this question:

Can you pretend to be attracted to men?


I assume your answer is no. Same goes for me on the flipside..I cannot pretend to be attracted to women.

I was born this way. Wake up and face the facts in front of you.

 

[JennyMominRI]

That's OT law. It is no longer in effect for salvation after Jesus came..

Jewish law never had anything to do with salvation in the first place.

 

[Thizz]

I just wanted to pop in here and mention that it's a common misconception that the Bible was written hundreds of years after the death of Christ. In reality, the last book in the New Testament to be written was completed by around 90 A.D. Many were written much sooner than that.

http://www.carm.org/questions/written_after.htm

Well, i haven't syudied the Bible as much as the Qu'ran, so I apologize. My point is the same.

 

[Thizz]

Not to religion, but to Jesus. He most definitely is my Shepherd!



The Bible? Absolutely!!!



How do you know? I disagree.



Not a man. God in human form. Yes I do! Millions upon millions throughout the last 2000 years have also believed. I'm not unique in this.

BTW, thanks for the compliments!

Matthew 5

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Well, my "book" tells me that he is a mere mortal. One endowed with the privilege of being one of the prophets of Allah.

So, can we agree to disagree, or are you going to try to give me "proof" he is more than I say he is?

There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his Prophet.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Well, my "book" tells me that he is a mere mortal. One endowed with the privilege of being one of the prophets of Allah.

So, can we agree to disagree, or are you going to try to give me "proof" he is more than I say he is?

There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his Prophet.

I just want to say how pleased I am to see another religion represented on this forum..Especially yours