I miss the Maelstrom ride so much.

[Planogirl]

I keep seeing this comment that the Norwegian government doesn't sponsor Norway. Very few of the pavilions get money from their respective governments. I don't see how that is relevant.

Also this goes way beyond a simple meet and greet. It's a restaurant and a ride and a museum and a shop and of course the meet and greet building. Who knows what's next.

Arendelle is FANTASY. It doesn't exist. Norway does.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Arendelle is FANTASY. It doesn't exist. Norway does.

By the way...are we sure about that?

Norway I mean...have we gotten proof it exists from a DISNEY source?

Was it confirmed in an announcement of a new exclusive fireworks viewing or a package discount?

Or a WSJ article how stock price is a 100% foolproof guarantee of good management?

Some people need "real" proof...

 

[rteetz]

I keep seeing this comment that the Norwegian government doesn't sponsor Norway. Very few of the pavilions get money from their respective governments. I don't see how that is relevant.

Also this goes way beyond a simple meet and greet. It's a restaurant and a ride and a museum and a shop and of course the meet and greet building. Who knows what's next.

Arendelle is FANTASY. It doesn't exist. Norway does.

Norway was sponsored by its country for a while but then they stopped. But otherwise I agree.

 

[wallrock]

By the way...are we sure about that?

Norway I mean...have we gotten proof it exists from a DISNEY source?

Was it confirmed in an announcement of a new exclusive fireworks viewing or a package discount?

Or a WSJ article how stock price is a 100% foolproof guarantee of good management?

Some people need "real" proof...

I heard it from a bus driver that Norway was due to open in 2016 so it must be true. I also heard from a trusted blogger source (so this HAS to be true) that there will be a hard ticket event called 'Sweden' mixed in. The shovels haven't come out yet, but darn it, I just know it's on the horizon.

 

[Whatsthegoodword]

While I agree that this Frozen attraction belongs at either DHS or MK, closing the Maelstrom isn't a big deal to me. The ride was just *meh* - and I haven't had to wait in a line in something like 15 years, so I think that most folks agreed with me. In fact, I'll bet that's why Disney thought they could put Frozen in there: traffic was down. That's the same reason that Pooh is now pulling in the crowds at former Toad Hall (my former favorite ride).

 

[wallrock]

To the voices that are happy with Frozen coming into Norway...they should be mindful that once the descent begins on this slippery slope it's probably going to accelerate to include overhauls of the other pavilions. What the Frozen overhaul essentially means is that the 'theme' in the theme park is over and done with. The next time Disney wants to bring in a new attraction there won't be a focus on the best fit for its atmosphere, but rather where can it be inserted with the least amount of funding (which is exactly what happened here), and the existing attraction/restaurant/show/whatever that gets bulldozed may very well be something that you adore.

 

[LaidBackDad]

Magic Kingdom: Designed and built by WED Enterprises, its layout and attractions are similar to Disneyland Park in Anaheim, California, and is dedicated to fairy tales and Disney characters.
Hollywood Studios: Hollywood Studios is dedicated to show business, drawing inspiration from the heyday of Hollywood in the 1930's and 1940's.
Animal Kingdom: Animal Kingdom holds the distinction of being the first (and only) Disney park to be themed entirely around animal conservation, a philosophy once pioneered by Walt Disney himself.
EPCOT: EPCOT is dedicated to the celebration of human achievement, namely technological innovation and international culture, and is often referred to as a "Permanent World's Fair."

In other words, anywhere but EPCOT.

I don't think the definitions of the parks were ever meant to be so literal or concrete. For all the talk of original and intended purpose for EPCOT, people seem to forget what the original intended purpose of WDW as a whole was. It's all about fantasy and imagination. All of the parks and even resorts have some degree of overlap with each other and are all connected by the greater theme of WDW as a whole. Adventureland has similarities to Animal Kingdom, Tomorrowland has similarities to EPCOT, Toy Story has rides in Hollywood Studios and the Magic Kingdom, and I'm not even mentioning hidden mickeys all over the parks and resorts. It's not a big deal to add characters to EPCOT.

In a perfect world I would have preferred a Frozen attraction in EPCOT at one of the vacant areas in Futureworld. Perhaps, an educational ride where we learn the hazards of global warming and in the end, Elsa uses her powers to save us all. Alas, that kind of project probably would have required far to much planning and time especially when Frozen fits perfectly into Norway and Maelstrom was in desperate need of repair / replacement anyways. I don't buy the notion that the introduction of Frozen characters will ruin Norway. While Arendelle is fictional, it is widely believed to have similarities with Scandinavian culture. If you were to ask the average visitor at WDW, I doubt most of them would be able to pick out Norway on a map of other Scandinavian countries. I could be wrong; (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am) but, I can't think of many animated Disney movies in which it is specifically stated that the story takes place in a real country. Sure, we are able to guess which country we think the story may be taking place in by the characters accents, cultural characteristics, or other factors; but, we don't really know. The idea that Frozen doesn't fit in Norway is nonsense. I won't miss Maelstrom at all and can't wait for the new Frozen attractions.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

To the voices that are happy with Frozen coming into Norway...they should be mindful that once the descent begins on this slippery slope it's probably going to accelerate to include overhauls of the other pavilions. What the Frozen overhaul essentially means is that the 'theme' in the theme park is over and done with. The next time Disney wants to bring in a new attraction there won't be a focus on the best fit for its atmosphere, but rather where can it be inserted with the least amount of funding (which is exactly what happened here), and the existing attraction/restaurant/show/whatever that gets bulldozed may very well be something that you adore.

And this sums up to a t what the real issue is for alot of us...

To deny the potential problem is "head in the sand" or worse

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Wdw was never about fantasy or imagination...

The magic kingdom was "begrudgingly" constructed because old walt needed money to finance his urban experiment.

The reality is the urban experience was a fools errand...but what we did get was EPCOT center...something deeper and different from a character breakfast

A place that didnt REQUIRE you to switch off our brains on vacation 100% of the time.

I would want that for my kids - and it's so depressing to see that it seems many people have no use for it.

Wonders of life and the original imagination pavilion were not mindless...

Frozen... Is... As evidenced by the lyrics to "love is an open door"

 

[rteetz]

I don't think the definitions of the parks were ever meant to be so literal or concrete. For all the talk of original and intended purpose for EPCOT, people seem to forget what the original intended purpose of WDW as a whole was. It's all about fantasy and imagination. All of the parks and even resorts have some degree of overlap with each other and are all connected by the greater theme of WDW as a whole. Adventureland has similarities to Animal Kingdom, Tomorrowland has similarities to EPCOT, Toy Story has rides in Hollywood Studios and the Magic Kingdom, and I'm not even mentioning hidden mickeys all over the parks and resorts. It's not a big deal to add characters to EPCOT.

In a perfect world I would have preferred a Frozen attraction in EPCOT at one of the vacant areas in Futureworld. Perhaps, an educational ride where we learn the hazards of global warming and in the end, Elsa uses her powers to save us all. Alas, that kind of project probably would have required far to much planning and time especially when Frozen fits perfectly into Norway and Maelstrom was in desperate need of repair / replacement anyways. I don't buy the notion that the introduction of Frozen characters will ruin Norway. While Arendelle is fictional, it is widely believed to have similarities with Scandinavian culture. If you were to ask the average visitor at WDW, I doubt most of them would be able to pick out Norway on a map of other Scandinavian countries. I could be wrong; (and I'm sure someone will correct me if I am) but, I can't think of many animated Disney movies in which it is specifically stated that the story takes place in a real country. Sure, we are able to guess which country we think the story may be taking place in by the characters accents, cultural characteristics, or other factors; but, we don't really know. The idea that Frozen doesn't fit in Norway is nonsense. I won't miss Maelstrom at all and can't wait for the new Frozen attractions.

They already have a film like you are talking about its called the circle of life narrated by the lion king characters. Planning that's what WDI does that's their job. Mulan's country is pretty specific. Frozen really doesn't belong in Norway. World showcase is intended to be a showcase of countries from around the world not fake fantasy places, that's why they have fantasyland. The original idea of EPCOT was from Walt, Experimental Prototype Community Of Tomorrow. His idea was a little far fetched at the time but he died before he could see any of it come through. When WDI finally went to building EPCOT center, it was built as if it was a permanent worlds fair. Future world had sponsors that would show off the latest tech and all sorts of stuff, World Showcase was a way of traveling the globe without leaving the U.S. The history and intent is pretty simple.

 

[Andrew015]

To the voices that are happy with Frozen coming into Norway...they should be mindful that once the descent begins on this slippery slope it's probably going to accelerate to include overhauls of the other pavilions. What the Frozen overhaul essentially means is that the 'theme' in the theme park is over and done with. The next time Disney wants to bring in a new attraction there won't be a focus on the best fit for its atmosphere, but rather where can it be inserted with the least amount of funding (which is exactly what happened here), and the existing attraction/restaurant/show/whatever that gets bulldozed may very well be something that you adore.

This pretty much sums things up perfectly. Nicely worded, Wallrock.

 

[skier_pete]

To the voices that are happy with Frozen coming into Norway...they should be mindful that once the descent begins on this slippery slope it's probably going to accelerate to include overhauls of the other pavilions. What the Frozen overhaul essentially means is that the 'theme' in the theme park is over and done with. The next time Disney wants to bring in a new attraction there won't be a focus on the best fit for its atmosphere, but rather where can it be inserted with the least amount of funding (which is exactly what happened here), and the existing attraction/restaurant/show/whatever that gets bulldozed may very well be something that you adore.

This is the problem I have with people complaining about this - people act like this is the start of a slippery slope. But really, it's already the bottom.

When Epcot was opened, it was deemed a no character zone - except for lonely figment.

The change started long ago with the Lion King teaching us an environmental message in "The Land".
By now, they have Princesses greeting in at LEAST 6 different Pavillions.
Nemo Characters throughout "The Seas".
Remy the Rat doing the rounds in a French restaurant.
Mexican Donald greeting outside the Mexico Pavillion.
A character greet with the Fab 5 in the center of the park.
Kim Possible then Agent P saving the countries from evil.
And guess what, a bunch of Princesses that have ZERO to do with Norway holding court in the Norwegian restaurant.

Here's the rub.

Everything I've listed above is FANTASTICALLY POPULAR! So, folks, you can sit and bemoan "the downfall of Epcot" as it was conceived, but let's face it, as soon as they put that Anna and Elsa meet and greet into Norway that had SIX HOUR waits, the re-do of the ride at Norway was inevitable. I understand the concern that Norway becomes a fictional Arendale...but I don't think Disney does that. I think they still call in Norway, and talk about the Arendale of the ride as being "Norway Inspired".

So, continue to bemoan the change if you wish, but just admit that it actually happened many many years ago and is long past stopping.

 

[eXo]

Hate to say it, and by saying it I'm not saying I agree with it, but EPCOT's days are numbered in it's current form. I don't believe the world showcase is sustainable for another 2 decades.

Those of you lamenting the loss of Norway ought to start spending a lot of time in the rest of that park. Once HS gets it's overhaul (and believe me, we are talking like a decade here), then Epcot will be next on the slab.

MK is bursting at the seams and simply isn't going to expand much more without tearing stuff out first.
AK is in the midst of getting Avatar, and even though it's a somewhat silly IP, it is what it is.
With Avatar in full swing, that brings their attention to HS. We have seen the changed starting and they will continue.
Which brings us to Epcot. As someone noted previously, it is the only park with a negative net attraction score.
Ellen's Energy Adventure is just waiting for a team to have time for it. Captain EO is going to go out again within the next 5 years. If Jacko hadn't died it would never have come back. The expo areas are half abandoned as it is. And then there is the beloved world showcase. A showcase that isn't quite so spectacular now that our children have the internet and can actually talk to people from these countries in real time. Where they can see live news and videos from these places. Where people travel more place more often. A world showcase just isn't as attractive anymore. And honestly, it's dated. Is Mexico *anything* like the Mexico pavilion? No. Some of the touristy areas maybe, but until they have a "get kidnapped by a cartel experience" or a "spring break in Playa with drunken americans experience" or an "overcrowded Mexico city full of poverty ride", then I'm going to stand by the fact that it is as unrealistic as it gets. Canada is just a movie and a steakhouse with a gift shop. A gift shop that sells nothing by beavers and maple syrup. The restaurant could be anywhere in the parks. It doesn't require a Canadian theme to be what it is. So whats left after that? A cheeseball Martin Short movie? One that had to be changed because it was so out of date?

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy Epcot (except during the food and wine festival, ugh). I enjoyed walking through the pavilions, eating foods, browsing shops, and checking out the museums/movies. But lets not kid ourselves about any of it being factually accurate. If Norway still has scandinavian food and gifts, then if there is some Elsa crap sitting next to it, it doesn't change my opinion at all. To those of you saying Arrendale has no place in the world showcase, how about the fact that the Norway pavilion was supposed to represent viking era Norway? Not even modern Norway? Not even factually correct viking Norway. Had they taken a modern realistic pavilion about Norway and converted it into fantasy, then I might see more of a point. Instead what I see is a fantasy historical pavilion (it had trolls in it already folks) being replaced with a fantasy fantasy pavilion. You don't have to convince me that you liked it the way it was before. I totally understand that. But I disagree with the notion that Epcot's world pavilion as it stands is even remotely representative of the world today and that by changing it the 'integrity' of these nations is being compromised. Maybe if there were some real viking still around they would protest the removal of their boat ride, but hey, guess what, they've been gone for centuries.

I have no sources to back this opinion up, but to those of you who say the introduction is a slippery slope. I posit that Disney is fully aware of that slope and is committed to it. Money talks. Frozen walks. Maybe one day Morocco is a Mos Espa cantina. I can already see some of your faces turning red. But I can also already see lines around the park to get in. Which do you think Disney cares more about? The 30 year old version of the world currently on display or boosting attendance and ride numbers? Because we all know that it will be impossible to get a fast pass to ride that same crappy boat ride just because they added some animatronic Frozen characters to is. With that simple change they are taking a semi-popular ride and making it a destination ride. Families will go to Epcot that otherwise would not have gone.

 

[rteetz]

Hate to say it, and by saying it I'm not saying I agree with it, but EPCOT's days are numbered in it's current form. I don't believe the world showcase is sustainable for another 2 decades.

Those of you lamenting the loss of Norway ought to start spending a lot of time in the rest of that park. Once HS gets it's overhaul (and believe me, we are talking like a decade here), then Epcot will be next on the slab.

MK is bursting at the seams and simply isn't going to expand much more without tearing stuff out first.
AK is in the midst of getting Avatar, and even though it's a somewhat silly IP, it is what it is.
With Avatar in full swing, that brings their attention to HS. We have seen the changed starting and they will continue.
Which brings us to Epcot. As someone noted previously, it is the only park with a negative net attraction score.
Ellen's Energy Adventure is just waiting for a team to have time for it. Captain EO is going to go out again within the next 5 years. If Jacko hadn't died it would never have come back. The expo areas are half abandoned as it is. And then there is the beloved world showcase. A showcase that isn't quite so spectacular now that our children have the internet and can actually talk to people from these countries in real time. Where they can see live news and videos from these places. Where people travel more place more often. A world showcase just isn't as attractive anymore. And honestly, it's dated. Is Mexico *anything* like the Mexico pavilion? No. Some of the touristy areas maybe, but until they have a "get kidnapped by a cartel experience" or a "spring break in Playa with drunken americans experience" or an "overcrowded Mexico city full of poverty ride", then I'm going to stand by the fact that it is as unrealistic as it gets. Canada is just a movie and a steakhouse with a gift shop. A gift shop that sells nothing by beavers and maple syrup. The restaurant could be anywhere in the parks. It doesn't require a Canadian theme to be what it is. So whats left after that? A cheeseball Martin Short movie? One that had to be changed because it was so out of date?

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy Epcot (except during the food and wine festival, ugh). I enjoyed walking through the pavilions, eating foods, browsing shops, and checking out the museums/movies. But lets not kid ourselves about any of it being factually accurate. If Norway still has scandinavian food and gifts, then if there is some Elsa crap sitting next to it, it doesn't change my opinion at all. To those of you saying Arrendale has no place in the world showcase, how about the fact that the Norway pavilion was supposed to represent viking era Norway? Not even modern Norway? Not even factually correct viking Norway. Had they taken a modern realistic pavilion about Norway and converted it into fantasy, then I might see more of a point. Instead what I see is a fantasy historical pavilion (it had trolls in it already folks) being replaced with a fantasy fantasy pavilion. You don't have to convince me that you liked it the way it was before. I totally understand that. But I disagree with the notion that Epcot's world pavilion as it stands is even remotely representative of the world today and that by changing it the 'integrity' of these nations is being compromised. Maybe if there were some real viking still around they would protest the removal of their boat ride, but hey, guess what, they've been gone for centuries.

I have no sources to back this opinion up, but to those of you who say the introduction is a slippery slope. I posit that Disney is fully aware of that slope and is committed to it. Money talks. Frozen walks. Maybe one day Morocco is a Mos Espa cantina. I can already see some of your faces turning red. But I can also already see lines around the park to get in. Which do you think Disney cares more about? The 30 year old version of the world currently on display or boosting attendance and ride numbers? Because we all know that it will be impossible to get a fast pass to ride that same crappy boat ride just because they added some animatronic Frozen characters to is. With that simple change they are taking a semi-popular ride and making it a destination ride. Families will go to Epcot that otherwise would not have gone.

Disney loves that MK is bursting at the seems that's where they want people. I don't think we will see a Epcot revamp after DHS. Epcot still brings in a nice crowd every year and hasn't dropped. And if we do see Epcot get something major it won't be for another 10 years. AK still needs more even tho I love that park. A lot of the pavilions still do have factually accurate stuff.

 

[disneydennis]

The last 2 posts are perfect! I've been contemplating for months on replying with similar posts. But didn't want to get bashed or told that my head is in the sand, because I felt the way I do. Thank you Skier_Pete and eXo for takign the words out of my mouth. Don't forget they have those nice Duffys and Pery sticks for kids to create, there is nothing about them that are related to "world showcase" unless you're lucky enough to have a representive from that country write your name in their language.
And yes. Epcot will get updated, the nice crowd epcot sees is due to the flower and garden and food and wine festivals. The lack of attractions in those parks are keeping most of the families from staying and enjoying the whole park.

 

[rteetz]

The last 2 posts are perfect! I've been contemplating for months on replying with similar posts. But didn't want to get bashed or told that my head is in the sand, because I felt the way I do. Thank you Skier_Pete and eXo for takign the words out of my mouth. Don't forget they have those nice Duffys and Pery sticks for kids to create, there is nothing about them that are related to "world showcase" unless you're lucky enough to have a representive from that country write your name in their language.
And yes. Epcot will get updated, the nice crowd epcot sees is due to the flower and garden and food and wine festivals. The lack of attractions in those parks are keeping most of the families from staying and enjoying the whole park.

Disney sees Epcot as the festival center because that's where they make a lot of money. I don't see major updates to Epcot other than a new soarin film for the next 10 years or so. Heck the stuff in DHS won't likely open until 2020 at the earliest.

 

[eXo]

Epcot doesn't have a lot of "come back for more" attractions right now. Yes, some of you are gluttons for punishment and have actually seen the Energy Adventure more than once. Some of you might do the land boat ride every trip, even though the info never changes and is pretty far out of date at this point.

The fact that Soarin is so popular should be a big wakeup call. Put Soarin in MK and (yes, I know it makes no sense to be there, just stay with me) does it still rank in the top 5 rides? Top 10? Soarin is huge at Epcot because Test Track, Mission: Space, and Soarin is... all you have! Well, as far as rides that aren't dark rides or slow boats. Soarin is a big movie screen... with smells.... am I the only one who watched it once and said, "that was kinda neat" and then wondered why I just stood in line for 45 minutes for that?

Universal Studios always had people going to it, but there was a point (after Wizarding World opened) where Islands of Adventure was packed and Universal Studios was medium. So what did they do? They built the second Harry Potter expansion in US and connected them with a ride. Boom, now you buy a two park ticket or you don't get the full experiences. Suddenly attendance at US rockets while also allowing traffic to ebb and flow between the two parks. None of that was by accident. Let me tell you something. Nobody at Disney Theme Parks Corporate looks at Epcot and says, "Ok, it's about half full, that is sufficient, we can ignore that park". Everything they do is designed at getting more people into all 4 parks. Yes, they want Mk bursting, but they want the other four bursting too. I mean heck, if they are so happy with Epcot's attendance, then why put Frozen there? That alone disproves this notion that "they" are happy with Epcot's numbers. Frozen in Norway is a blatant attempt to boost attendance and diversify attendance ages. That has been argued for 3 pages now, so it makes no sense to say now that they are happy with the marks medium level attendance.

So yes, there is no doubt Epcot will change. The only reason it hasn't yet is because there are more needy parks on the docket. At any given time execs are looking at the size of all 4 parks and the maximum attendance versus the current attendance. They then have very long meetings about how to boost those numbers. There *will* be a day when Epcot has the lowest attendance. And it will be relatively soon after AK and HS get their updates. Once Epcot has the lowest ratio of current capacity/potential capacity, do you honestly believe they will be fine with that and just leave it alone?

 

[Andrew015]

This is the problem I have with people complaining about this - people act like this is the start of a slippery slope. But really, it's already the bottom.

The change started long ago with the Lion King teaching us an environmental message in "The Land".
By now, they have Princesses greeting in at LEAST 6 different Pavillions.
Nemo Characters throughout "The Seas".
Remy the Rat doing the rounds in a French restaurant.
Mexican Donald greeting outside the Mexico Pavillion.
A character greet with the Fab 5 in the center of the park.
Kim Possible then Agent P saving the countries from evil.
And guess what, a bunch of Princesses that have ZERO to do with Norway holding court in the Norwegian restaurant.

Here's the rub.

Everything I've listed above is FANTASTICALLY POPULAR! So, folks, you can sit and bemoan "the downfall of Epcot" as it was conceived, but let's face it, as soon as they put that Anna and Elsa meet and greet into Norway that had SIX HOUR waits, the re-do of the ride at Norway was inevitable. I understand the concern that Norway becomes a fictional Arendale...but I don't think Disney does that. I think they still call in Norway, and talk about the Arendale of the ride as being "Norway Inspired".

So, continue to bemoan the change if you wish, but just admit that it actually happened many many years ago and is long past stopping.

Of all of the things that you have mentioned, none of them have changed the park in a material way. And I would argue that none of them are “incredibly popular”. Quite the opposite, actually...

• The change started long ago with the Lion King teaching us an environmental message in "The Land". I've never seen this with more than a handful of people waiting for it.
• By now, they have Princesses greeting in at LEAST 6 different Pavillions. Yes, but this is done quite seamlessly. You can find the princesses if you are seeking them out, but you can also walk right past them without giving them any thought. Again, this did not change WS in a material fashion.
• Nemo Characters throughout "The Seas". Another “walk on” / yawn ride.
• Remy the Rat doing the rounds in a French restaurant. Not anymore. Remy is long gone, but I will concede that this was popular. Again, this did not change the dining experience in a material way.
• Mexican Donald greeting outside the Mexico Pavillion. As already mentioned a number of times, this didn’t change the pavilion whatsoever. Also, another walk-on ride.
• A character greet with the Fab 5 in the center of the park. I have a comment for this below...
• Kim Possible then Agent P saving the countries from evil. Again, another seamless attraction. I never even knew this even existed until I went to EPCOT with my young nephews. I had to ask their parents “what’s with the 1990’s style flip phone?”.

Your example of the "fab 5" in the center of the park is a perfect example of what's really wrong with EPCOT. You have prime real estate smack-dab in the heart of Future World sitting completely empty. And the best thing that the brain trusts in Burbank can come up with is sending in 5 college kids at $10/hour wearing mouse costumes for 45 minutes to take pictures with your kids... and then sell them to you for $20 a piece shortly thereafter? With all of the financial resources, Imagineers and record profits... this is what we have to accept in the heart of EPCOT - Walt's crown jewel? Give me a break.

EPCOT is in dire need of so much more. It's not that us "nay-sayers" despise princesses or characters. Actually, quite the contrary (who doesn't like sitting down with a cold beer in Morocco when Jasmine comes strolling by)... I digress. EPCOT has (or had) so much more potential. It never needed characters to be a success. I think the park would be so much more wildly popular if it went back to its roots and received the investment that it deserves. Unfortunately, we're getting the cheap / easy fix with Fantasyland 2.0, which ultimately yields no net gain in new attractions. I'm happy that some of you are excited for this. No doubt, it will be popular for your young daughters. For the rest of us, it's a major step back for EPCOT and another example of short-sighted leadership that could care less about leaving a legacy, but rather, is only concerned about the size of their golden parachute.

 

[circus4u]

Hate to say it, and by saying it I'm not saying I agree with it, but EPCOT's days are numbered in it's current form. I don't believe the world showcase is sustainable for another 2 decades.

Those of you lamenting the loss of Norway ought to start spending a lot of time in the rest of that park. Once HS gets it's overhaul (and believe me, we are talking like a decade here), then Epcot will be next on the slab.

MK is bursting at the seams and simply isn't going to expand much more without tearing stuff out first.
AK is in the midst of getting Avatar, and even though it's a somewhat silly IP, it is what it is.
With Avatar in full swing, that brings their attention to HS. We have seen the changed starting and they will continue.
Which brings us to Epcot. As someone noted previously, it is the only park with a negative net attraction score.
Ellen's Energy Adventure is just waiting for a team to have time for it. Captain EO is going to go out again within the next 5 years. If Jacko hadn't died it would never have come back. The expo areas are half abandoned as it is. And then there is the beloved world showcase. A showcase that isn't quite so spectacular now that our children have the internet and can actually talk to people from these countries in real time. Where they can see live news and videos from these places. Where people travel more place more often. A world showcase just isn't as attractive anymore. And honestly, it's dated. Is Mexico *anything* like the Mexico pavilion? No. Some of the touristy areas maybe, but until they have a "get kidnapped by a cartel experience" or a "spring break in Playa with drunken americans experience" or an "overcrowded Mexico city full of poverty ride", then I'm going to stand by the fact that it is as unrealistic as it gets. Canada is just a movie and a steakhouse with a gift shop. A gift shop that sells nothing by beavers and maple syrup. The restaurant could be anywhere in the parks. It doesn't require a Canadian theme to be what it is. So whats left after that? A cheeseball Martin Short movie? One that had to be changed because it was so out of date?

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy Epcot (except during the food and wine festival, ugh). I enjoyed walking through the pavilions, eating foods, browsing shops, and checking out the museums/movies. But lets not kid ourselves about any of it being factually accurate. If Norway still has scandinavian food and gifts, then if there is some Elsa crap sitting next to it, it doesn't change my opinion at all. To those of you saying Arrendale has no place in the world showcase, how about the fact that the Norway pavilion was supposed to represent viking era Norway? Not even modern Norway? Not even factually correct viking Norway. Had they taken a modern realistic pavilion about Norway and converted it into fantasy, then I might see more of a point. Instead what I see is a fantasy historical pavilion (it had trolls in it already folks) being replaced with a fantasy fantasy pavilion. You don't have to convince me that you liked it the way it was before. I totally understand that. But I disagree with the notion that Epcot's world pavilion as it stands is even remotely representative of the world today and that by changing it the 'integrity' of these nations is being compromised. Maybe if there were some real viking still around they would protest the removal of their boat ride, but hey, guess what, they've been gone for centuries.

I have no sources to back this opinion up, but to those of you who say the introduction is a slippery slope. I posit that Disney is fully aware of that slope and is committed to it. Money talks. Frozen walks. Maybe one day Morocco is a Mos Espa cantina. I can already see some of your faces turning red. But I can also already see lines around the park to get in. Which do you think Disney cares more about? The 30 year old version of the world currently on display or boosting attendance and ride numbers? Because we all know that it will be impossible to get a fast pass to ride that same crappy boat ride just because they added some animatronic Frozen characters to is. With that simple change they are taking a semi-popular ride and making it a destination ride. Families will go to Epcot that otherwise would not have gone.

Agree, 100%. Epcot used to be my favorite park; it was a rude awakening when I returned to Epcot after a hiatus from WDW for 15 years. I got a sinking feeling when walking through the gate and seeing the "tombstones" at the entrance. It went downhill from there. For me, there is no real reason to do repeat trips to Epcot, merchandise in the shops are pretty much all the same (I admit that I do enjoy China) and the food in the various countries are all "Americanized" versions. The only attraction that I really enjoy is the American Adventure. I still don't understand the fascination with Soarin' and Test Track. Epcot has inevitably started down the road to become another amusement park with the public wanting thrill rides. Even though I personally don't like it, I can't fault Disney for giving the people what they want, it is a business after all.

 

[rteetz]

Epcot doesn't have a lot of "come back for more" attractions right now. Yes, some of you are gluttons for punishment and have actually seen the Energy Adventure more than once. Some of you might do the land boat ride every trip, even though the info never changes and is pretty far out of date at this point.

The fact that Soarin is so popular should be a big wakeup call. Put Soarin in MK and (yes, I know it makes no sense to be there, just stay with me) does it still rank in the top 5 rides? Top 10? Soarin is huge at Epcot because Test Track, Mission: Space, and Soarin is... all you have! Well, as far as rides that aren't dark rides or slow boats. Soarin is a big movie screen... with smells.... am I the only one who watched it once and said, "that was kinda neat" and then wondered why I just stood in line for 45 minutes for that?

Universal Studios always had people going to it, but there was a point (after Wizarding World opened) where Islands of Adventure was packed and Universal Studios was medium. So what did they do? They built the second Harry Potter expansion in US and connected them with a ride. Boom, now you buy a two park ticket or you don't get the full experiences. Suddenly attendance at US rockets while also allowing traffic to ebb and flow between the two parks. None of that was by accident. Let me tell you something. Nobody at Disney Theme Parks Corporate looks at Epcot and says, "Ok, it's about half full, that is sufficient, we can ignore that park". Everything they do is designed at getting more people into all 4 parks. Yes, they want Mk bursting, but they want the other four bursting too. I mean heck, if they are so happy with Epcot's attendance, then why put Frozen there? That alone disproves this notion that "they" are happy with Epcot's numbers. Frozen in Norway is a blatant attempt to boost attendance and diversify attendance ages. That has been argued for 3 pages now, so it makes no sense to say now that they are happy with the marks medium level attendance.

So yes, there is no doubt Epcot will change. The only reason it hasn't yet is because there are more needy parks on the docket. At any given time execs are looking at the size of all 4 parks and the maximum attendance versus the current attendance. They then have very long meetings about how to boost those numbers. There *will* be a day when Epcot has the lowest attendance. And it will be relatively soon after AK and HS get their updates. Once Epcot has the lowest ratio of current capacity/potential capacity, do you honestly believe they will be fine with that and just leave it alone?

I wouldn't be so optimistic with TDO they are strange in the way they do thing. Frozen was fast tracked, once they saw the movie power they said get this in the parks, easiest solution was Norway. Epcot will change but like I said we are a decade from it at least.