I know, I know, another gun thread....

[rajak73]

My response was to your complaint about what was wrong with that active shooter video. It obviously doesn't apply across the board. YOU said they sat the concealed carry person in the same seat each time negating what the video showed. I suggested that a shooter could, perhaps, see someone fumbling for a weapon depending on the situation.

And, what I believe about the Aurora shooting will persist. One shooter inside a dark movie theater with people panicing was terrible. Two would be catastrophic

Umm first off, I never said a word about the shooting video, I don't watch staged videos. Not everyone has to "fumble" to pull a gun as was implied.
And my belief about Aurora and other shootings will persist too. Maybe they need to put up bigger signs that say "No gun Allowed" I don't think these shooters are seeing the signs!

 

[rajak73]

Restraining orders aren't nearly as useful as people think

WHATTT? You mean people don't obey the restraining order like they do a "gun free zone"? Who would have thought!!

 

[3Gsandme]

Umm first off, I never said a word about the shooting video, I don't watch staged videos. Not everyone has to "fumble" to pull a gun as was implied.
And my belief about Aurora and other shootings will persist too. Maybe they need to put up bigger signs that say "No gun Allowed" I don't think these shooters are seeing the signs!

I confused you with the poster who made the original statement. You brought up the Aurora situation and how that shooter wouldn't have seen someone trying to unholster his/her weapon. My point that a even a good guy shooter would have been a catastrophe in Aurora stands.

 

[CPanther95]

Why don't they just make the whole city a "Crime Free Zone"?

Wouldn't that solve a whole host of problems - and radically reduce the amount of resources needed by law enforcement?

 

[kamik86]

WHATTT? You mean people don't obey the restraining order like they do a "gun free zone"? Who would have thought!!

This thread is reminding me of the time in elementary school on the bus where someone was annoying me and I told them "Stop that or I'm going to punch you in the face" and they replied "You can't punch me you will get in trouble" they didn't like my response of "Yes I will get in trouble but your face will still hurt and that just might be worth it."

 

[CPanther95]

My point that a even a good guy shooter would have been a catastrophe in Aurora stands.

Seems like Aurora WAS a catastrophe.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I confused you with the poster who made the original statement. You brought up the Aurora situation and how that shooter wouldn't have seen someone trying to unholster his/her weapon. My point that a even a good guy shooter would have been a catastrophe in Aurora stands.

That's been the prediction about concealed carry for 2 decades now & we're still waiting for the one time it actually plays out.

 

[LisaR]

That's been the prediction about concealed carry for 2 decades now & we're still waiting for the one time it actually plays out.

Are you saying you feel the gun culture today in the US is the same as the gun culture was decades ago? I don't buy that for a minute. As I've said many times in these types of threads, my husband was a country boy who kept his hunting rifle in his truck in the school parking lot as was common back in the day. Even though they got mad at their teachers for bad grades or stupid assignments and even though they had fights with fellow students, never once did they grab their gun and settle it with bullets. They didn't even threaten to do that. People weren't fighting in Toys R Us and then going out in the parking lot and shooting each other. Kids weren't finding loaded guns sitting around the house and shooting themselves, siblings, or their parents. When the neighbor pissed you off because they didn't cut their grass or pick up after their dogs, they didn't get shot. Did these things ever happen? Certainly. Were they happening every single day? Absolutely not! Sure, gang bangers and drug dealers were having a field day with their turf wars and settling late payments with bullets, but that was their culture. Somewhere along the way, that same culture drifted into the mindset of the average American. I find it very hard to believe that you don't see that the gun culture in this country has changed drastically and fairly quickly in just the past few years? Comparing what happened two decades ago to what is taking place today is like comparing apples to steak.

I'm not sure what you were saying when you responded to that post. That poster said, "My point that even a good guy shooter would have been a catastrophe in Aurora stands." and you responded about waiting for two decades and that still hasn't happened. Are you saying that a concealed weapons holder has never made a bad situation worse? If so, that's laughable! Now, if you are just referring to mass shooting situations, I'd agree that so far nobody with a CCW has made those situations worse.

 

[TAX GUY]

Are you saying you feel the gun culture today in the US is the same as the gun culture was decades ago? I don't buy that for a minute. As I've said many times in these types of threads, my husband was a country boy who kept his hunting rifle in his truck in the school parking lot as was common back in the day. Even though they got mad at their teachers for bad grades or stupid assignments and even though they had fights with fellow students, never once did they grab their gun and settle it with bullets. They didn't even threaten to do that. People weren't fighting in Toys R Us and then going out in the parking lot and shooting each other. Kids weren't finding loaded guns sitting around the house and shooting themselves, siblings, or their parents. When the neighbor pissed you off because they didn't cut their grass or pick up after their dogs, they didn't get shot. Did these things ever happen? Certainly. Were they happening every single day? Absolutely not! Sure, gang bangers and drug dealers were having a field day with their turf wars and settling late payments with bullets, but that was their culture. Somewhere along the way, that same culture drifted into the mindset of the average American. I find it very hard to believe that you don't see that the gun culture in this country has changed drastically and fairly quickly in just the past few years? Comparing what happened two decades ago to what is taking place today is like comparing apples to steak.

I'm not sure what you were saying when you responded to that post. That poster said, "My point that even a good guy shooter would have been a catastrophe in Aurora stands." and you responded about waiting for two decades and that still hasn't happened. Are you saying that a concealed weapons holder has never made a bad situation worse? If so, that's laughable! Now, if you are just referring to mass shooting situations, I'd agree that so far nobody with a CCW has made those situations worse.

I don't think this is anything new but more of we have the means of hearing about a lot more now. There was no internet then. Most news stations only reported local news (and limited national news but that was more "world news"). No one really heard what was happening outside of their little corner of the world. Now, we have access to every tidbit of "news" anywhere in the world.

 

[CPanther95]

Somewhere along the way, that same culture drifted into the mindset of the average American. I find it very hard to believe that you don't see that the gun culture in this country has changed drastically and fairly quickly in just the past few years? Comparing what happened two decades ago to what is taking place today is like comparing apples to steak.

For law abiding citizens, the "gun culture" hasn't changed among gun owners. We have always had guns as tools to be used to protect ourselves - since the inception of our country. The only change in recent times is that a large segment of the population has developed an irrational fear that simply owning these tools will cause regular citizens to become murderers.

I'm not sure what you were saying when you responded to that post. That poster said, "My point that even a good guy shooter would have been a catastrophe in Aurora stands." and you responded about waiting for two decades and that still hasn't happened.

He's responding to the bogus claim made by alarmists that if people are allowed to carry concealed weapons, there will be OK Corral-type shootouts from a bunch of yahoos. The reality is that there has been an explosion in the number of concealed carry permits - and the only result has been a drop in crime.

 

[LisaR]

For law abiding citizens, the "gun culture" hasn't changed among gun owners. We have always had guns as tools to be used to protect ourselves - since the inception of our country. The only change in recent times is that a large segment of the population has developed an irrational fear that simply owning these tools will cause regular citizens to become murderers.

This is apples to oranges. Of course law abiding people are still following the law....hence the law abiding title. More people have guns now. More people are using those guns. Crime is down, but gun violence is up when you take the gang style violence of decades ago.

He's responding to the bogus claim made by alarmists that if people are allowed to carry concealed weapons, there will be OK Corral-type shootouts from a bunch of yahoos. The reality is that there has been an explosion in the number of concealed carry permits - and the only result has been a drop in crime.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. You don't see a bunch of yahoos having shootouts but I do. I can find at least one example for every day this week alone. Is it OK Corral type shootouts? No, but it is everyday people settling petty disputes with guns. That is the disturbing part to me.

 

[EMAW_KSU]

This is apples to oranges. Of course law abiding people are still following the law....hence the law abiding title. More people have guns now. More people are using those guns. Crime is down, but gun violence is up when you take the gang style violence of decades ago.

What do you mean in the bolded part?

 

[bcla]

He's responding to the bogus claim made by alarmists that if people are allowed to carry concealed weapons, there will be OK Corral-type shootouts from a bunch of yahoos. The reality is that there has been an explosion in the number of concealed carry permits - and the only result has been a drop in crime.

Correlation does not equal causation. Crime is down in general, and it doesn't necessarily match where CCW permits are issued in greater numbers. Texas makes it easy to get a CCW permit, but their violent crime rate is on par with California, where it isn't so easy.

 

[CPanther95]

This is apples to oranges. Of course law abiding people are still following the law....hence the law abiding title. More people have guns now. More people are using those guns. Crime is down, but gun violence is up when you take the gang style violence of decades ago.

You need to check your stats. Gun homicides and gun crime is down dramatically from 20 years ago.

 

[CPanther95]

What do you mean in the bolded part?

If you ignore the gun crimes committed in the past, there was less gun crimes in the past?

 

[Cowboysrule]

You need to check your stats. Gun homicides and gun crime is down dramatically from 20 years ago.

 

[rajak73]

For law abiding citizens, the "gun culture" hasn't changed among gun owners. We have always had guns as tools to be used to protect ourselves - since the inception of our country. The only change in recent times is that a large segment of the population has developed an irrational fear that simply owning these tools will cause regular citizens to become murderers.
He's responding to the bogus claim made by alarmists that if people are allowed to carry concealed weapons, there will be OK Corral-type shootouts from a bunch of yahoos. The reality is that there has been an explosion in the number of concealed carry permits - and the only result has been a drop in crime.

Yep...as I posted before:

had a local furniture store that said they would allow CCW permit holders to carry in the store. You should have heard the knee jerk reactions, "People are going to be shooting each other over the couch" "how many people are going be shot over a dryer", etc, know what, there haven't been any shootings over couches or anything else but the store also hasn't been robbed at knifepoint since they allowed CC either, they were robbed twice before.

 

[CPanther95]

Correlation does not equal causation.

True. But I'm not not trying to prove causation. All I'm trying to show is that the claim of a correlation between increased numbers of gun carriers will cause an increase in crime is false.

 

[Domo]

I'm a rare breed: I detest firearms in general, but I practice shooting every week I guess that makes me a hypocrite!

 

[LisaR]

Curious how you guys grew up and the gun violence you experienced as kids? Did students shoot anyone in your school system? Were your "normal" neighbors who went to work everyday and raised their family without any issues suddenly shooting other neighbors because their grass was too long? Did you go to the toy store with your parents and witness a shooting in the parking lot? Did people get pissed at other drivers on the road and end up killing them? Did your dad have a former employee come in and shoot up the place because he was fired a few weeks earlier? Were kids your age grabbing dad's gun and shooting themselves or others? Certainly these things happened, but did they happen daily? Is that honestly the type of gun violence those statistics are pointing to?

What I am trying to say is that there is a DIFFERENCE in the type of gun violence today than there was when I was growing up. The people committing these shootings are very different than the vast majority of shootings years ago. I grew up right outside a very rough neighborhood; plenty of gangs, drugs, and violence. But those people stuck to their own turf wars. While it was possible to get caught in the crossfire, they didn't go to the movie theater and kill random people.

I take back what I said earlier. The gun culture hasn't changed, but the mindset of the Average Joe has changed with regard to settling their problems in life.

I'm out for the day. DD should be home in just a few minutes. She survived another semester without getting shot and only one lockdown in 16 weeks. Such Progress! Of course, that doesn't count the guy who shot into the crowd in the downtown area at a public festival just blocks from the college. But hey, only one died so that's cool.