I just have to vent.

[kpadalik]

I haven't read most of the thread, so I apologize if someone has already said this.

To those that are flaming OP, I don't think OP is angry that she keeps having kids or that they are so close together. It seems to me that the girl is intentionally getting pregnant so that she can have the benefits of extended maternity leave and reduced hours after she returns to work. If she had stayed w/ the same employer, she would have not been able to build up any time off between babies in order to take leave. Nothing wrong w/ having babies close in age, but she seems to be taking advantage of her employers.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

She didn't lie to her employer. Disclosing a pregnancy is not part of the job application process - by law. It has no place in a job interview...

A lie by omission is a lie none the less. I am not suggesting that she should have revealed her pregnancy during the interview process, but she should have done so within a few weeks of beginning her job so her manager could plan for her absence. I have worked for companies that required notification of pregnancy within a certain time period for just that purpose.

No woman should ever be penalized for pregnancy, but any person that purposely witholds this sort of information all the way to their delivery date deserves to be fired. Sadly, the law does not allow it. But you can bet that flex time will not be an option for a person that is so cavalier about their responsibility toward their company and fellow employees. If you can't fire her, you can make it uncomfortable for her to stay...

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

I think so too.



She is hiding something that is going to affect her work. If you had a long vacation that was non negotiable, and in the months leading up to the vacation you MIGHT be too tired, too sick, too whatever to work up to standards but would be protected from firing for that reason, would you try for a different job at that moment?

Don't you think it would be nice for a person in that position to mention something at the interviews, so the company knows what they are getting?




I agree. And those jobs have been very nice, allowing her to take time off. I know that at the last two companies I worked for, FMLA didn't kick in until you were there for 12 months, and they weren't required to do anything for you except for sick time earned and disability if you could convince a doc to sign off on that. This woman is LUCKY her jobs have been kind to her, and her luck will probably run out at some point.

Not to mention the people who have to pick up the slack while she's out of the office. Sorry, I agree with the OP.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

at least she's willing to find work..whats up with dad? not that stay at home dads are wrong, im home alot..but he needs tohave work, too...

This is a very sexist attitude...

 

[jlormeau]

I guess she does have a responsibility AFTER being hired to give her employer time to plan for her absence...but you would FIRE her if she didn't????? Again, women would not feel the need to hide these things if we were a more civilized society that offered ALL women extended maternity leave, child care, etc... like ALL other industrialized countries in the world do. Granted, in the US this costs employers which is not fair....but perhaps this is why we need a better system.

 

[toesmom]

and precisely why in my position as manager I do not hire women between the ages of 21 and 40, unless I can't fill the position with either a man or an older woman who already has kids.

I would be pissed as the employer to go through the hiring and training only to realize the new employee wasn't honest.

Business is business after all.

 

[soccerchick]

OP - I too get it. It's not the hiring process so much that she's really venting about (I think). It's the fact that the friend tries to renegotiate the job after being there such as short time AND being OUT on leave. She then returns from having the baby and then quits when she doesn't get her way. Hey, I'm new here, but please change this job FOR ME.

 

[iheartdisney]

and precisely why in my position as manager I do not hire women between the ages of 21 and 40, unless I can't fill the position with either a man or an older woman who already has kids.

I would be pissed as the employer to go through the hiring and training only to realize the new employee wasn't honest.

Business is business after all.

So even though my husband had a vasectomy 3 years ago, you won't hire me for another 11 years?
Nothing wrong with your business practices at all!

 

[GoldieSaysMeep]

So even though my husband had a vasectomy 3 years ago, you won't hire me for another 11 years?
Nothing wrong with your business practices at all!

This happens A LOT. They will tell you other reasons, or say the other person is more qualified.

I have my tubes tied. Not a chance I'm having kids. I don't want any, am never having any. Period.

But I'm still a 32 year old woman and you better believe men have gotten positions over me because of it. And honestly, I can't say I blame the managers who make that choice.

 

[AMYCC1]

More power to her, I say!!! As someone who struggled tooth and nail with infertility, she (and you as a friend) that she doesnt have to deal with the pain and frustration that infertility brings. And that she can get such good jobs that DH can be a SAHD, that's AWESOME.She must be smart and talented. She should have no shame in having a baby and taking a hefty maternity leave - it's obvious that the companies she's worked for really valued her or they wouldn't have given her good maternity leaves.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

I guess she does have a responsibility AFTER being hired to give her employer time to plan for her absence...but you would FIRE her if she didn't????? Again, women would not feel the need to hide these things if we were a more civilized society that offered ALL women extended maternity leave, child care, etc... like ALL other industrialized countries in the world do. Granted, in the US this costs employers which is not fair....but perhaps this is why we need a better system.

By law, I couldn't - but I would if allowed. I will not allow any employee to act in any way that is detrimental to the team. It has nothing to do with the pregnancy. I would feel the same way about a person who knew about any pending extended absence and kept it secret. It is inexcusable...

 

[Tiger926]

Honestly, Ladies, this conversation is a perfect illustration of how we are our own worst enemy. It is not a deception to give birth. It is not a crime to demand the same right to work as any man has (she didn't get pregnant by herself, after all). Do men have to report their wives pregnancies or intended pregnancies? Of course not. And she must be good at what she does, or else why is she offered so many lucrative positions? And do the research....most employers report that mothers are among their MOST productive employees! I work full-time and have 4 children and work circles around the young, childless young women. If she's good, she's good.

We need to stop hating women for being women...for doing what women do....giving birth, nursing their babies, and unfortunately, doing most of the child rearing. I sat Kudos to her! She's a hero as far as I am concerned.

I find it funny that she's a 'hero' to you. She is deceiving her employers, so how is that heroic or ethical? What about if you were her boss or job partner and this negatively affected your job - more hours, harder work, etc. Would you still feel the same?

This is not a case of 'being our own worst enemy' in my humble opinion, and in fact, I think she can be considered an enemy to those of us who take our jobs seriously, as well as our family - many of us manage to mesh the two together quite nicely without deceiving our workplaces. In all fairness to her and other U.S. women, your lack of maternity leave is ridiculous, so this might be why so many women do what the OP's friend does, but regardless, it is still deceptive and probably adds quite a bit of stress to her work environment for her co-workers and bosses.

Tiger

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

More power to her, I say!!! As someone who struggled tooth and nail with infertility, she (and you as a friend) that she doesnt have to deal with the pain and frustration that infertility brings. And that she can get such good jobs that DH can be a SAHD, that's AWESOME.She must be smart and talented. She should have no shame in having a baby and taking a hefty maternity leave - it's obvious that the companies she's worked for really valued her or they wouldn't have given her good maternity leaves.

Given the tenor of the original post, those companies did not value her at all. In fact, it sounds like they tried to get her to leave by treating her poorly (as she deserved) - and she left each time.

The law allowed for her extended absence. I have decades of experience in management. A woman can get he doctor to write notes that will get her as much time as she wants after a pregnancy. The only limitation - the company disabilty policy.

I have had many women that worked for me have babies. I have never seen behavior like this from any of them. Perhaps it is because I hire people that want to be a part of something bigger than themselves. This is what happens when you hire selfish people...

 

[girli565]

I find it funny that she's a 'hero' to you. She is deceiving her employers, so how is that heroic or ethical? What about if you were her boss or job partner and this negatively affected your job - more hours, harder work, etc. Would you still feel the same?

This is not a case of 'being our own worst enemy' in my humble opinion, and in fact, I think she can be considered an enemy to those of us who take our jobs seriously, as well as our family - many of us manage to mesh the two together quite nicely without deceiving our workplaces. In all fairness to her and other U.S. women, your lack of maternity leave is ridiculous, so this might be why so many women do what the OP's friend does, but regardless, it is still deceptive and probably adds quite a bit of stress to her work environment for her co-workers and bosses.

Tiger

I agree with the OP and you, Tiger. If the woman wants to have 10 children, that's her choice but interviewing and being hired all while knowing you're going to take an extended leave of absence is wrong no matter what the reason!!

It is deceptive and as a woman of child bearing age (for the next many many years) I think this woman is doing a disservice to all women. I would be very upset if I worked in that company she was hired at. Women have worked so hard to gain equality in the work place and things like this just make employers push to hire men before women. It's not fair.

 

[TheLittleRoo]

I get the OP's post too. I would never take advantage of an employer's leave policy. If I knew I wasn't going to come back, I could not look my director in the eye and hide it. Then again, I have always respected and LIKED my bosses in my career. My company offered a very generous leave policy, and would have extended for highly respected, qualified employees.

Ultimately, I could not balance my job with its 25% overnight travel once I had three kids, so I resigned with much sadness. Would you believe my director and my VP suggested I take FMLA in order to keep my benefits and maybe get my work life balance back? I knew in my heart of hearts it would never work for me in the same position - I'd be lying if I stayed and told them I might have a chance of balancing my life in that job. I know that I'll have a job waiting for me in a few years when my kids get older. I'm very proud of the decision I made that was best for my clients, for my company and for some lucky person who took my place.

As for the person who doesn't hire women between 21 and 40? While I understand you are trying to limit your exposure, you are also limiting your creativity and diversity. In almost every job, diversity of employees helps you stay in touch with the customers you serve. By lopping off a segment of the population, you are effectively out of touch with that target market and you've lost out on untold talent and teamwork that women can bring to the workplace. The same boss I mentioned above, the one I adored? Hired a 5 month pregnant mother of one for the same job as me because she was very good at her job. My team knew we'd be picking up the slack for her when she went out, but we were a team of all women and it was by far the best workplace I've ever worked in. We also knew she must be a helluva manager for my director to have hired her at 5 mos! And she was!

 

[mhsjax]

First off, I have 3 and they are very close together. That is the way I wanted it. Second, who cares, I don't know if anyone has noticed this but recently companies have been screwing everybody over, so let her work the system. More power to her.

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

There is inherent risk in hiring women of childbearing age. Just a biological fact and an HR headache. If a woman interviewed with me for a job with a project deadline where her presence and availability was crucial to the success of the project and I later discovered she knew she was pregnant at the time of the interview, I would lose all trust in her as an employee. I wouldn't make any effort to retain her in my employ after that.

As for the OP's friend... Her job-hopping is a bigger indicator of her (im)maturity than the evident ease with which she conceives and conceals.

 

[chloelovesdisney]

I understand the vent. It can be a long and expensive process to hire and train an employee. If she was having the baby, then returning to being a productive employee after her maternity leave it wouldn't be a problem. Instead, she moves on again and again. Being trained, then going out on leave and not returning for what sounds like any worthwhile time.

It just gives employers reason to go with a male candidate or female of non-childbearing age when they hire again. People don't like to be burned over and over. Of course she has the right to have babies on her schedule and do what works for her. It just works against women in terms of being considered long term, stable employees.

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

First off, I have 3 and they are very close together. That is the way I wanted it. Second, who cares, I don't know if anyone has noticed this but recently companies have been screwing everybody over, so let her work the system. More power to her.

Wow!

 

[dimimi]

I don't understand why it matters to you?
Maybe she wanted her children close in age? She didn't get pregnant on her own. Not being rude but I don't really understand your vent.

I agree. I don't see the difference between this and a man who takes a job and then finds another job and quits after a few months?