I just found out that my secretary is a Jehovah's Witness

[declansdad]

I agree. I got the definition from dictionary.com and found it compelling. What does make a group of religious believers a cult?

That is a very good question.

 

[melk]

ITA!! My friend will try to put a spin on it so she doesn't miss out on something free.

Another odd thing - JW do not vote and cannot hold an elected position. However, my friend is treasurer of our PTO - she weasled it so no one voted, but she was 'given' the position or just took it over for another friend who was moving. Seems hypocritical and like the rules are sometimes bent to her advantage. jmo

I'd love to talk with another JW to get some of this stuf clarified. Another is - they don't believe in our government, won't honor the flag, won't vote for anything, BUT they'll take advantage of food stamps, free health insurance, etc. Hello - who is providing/making those things possible??

Just because they don't salute the flag, which they view as idolatry, doesn't mean they don't honor it. Ask one to burn the flag, they would never do it.

As for food stamps, health insurance, etc., they aren't made possible by registered voters, they're provided by tax payers. Jehovah's Witnesses are taxpayers just like everyone else in this country.

 

[missypie]

Why should she have to step up to the plate just because she has different beliefs? That is like saying because someone doesn't have kids they should work.

Because it was a holiday that she doesn't acknowledge. If I was at a majority Jewish firm that gave us Yom Kippur off, and someone had to come in to work, it would make a lot more sense for me to come in to work than for someone who was busy observing Yom Kippur to come in to work.

 

[Bob Slydell]

What is also interesting is her taking extra time off around holidays (we got the 26th off for the Christmas holiday since Christmas was on a Sunday; she took Friday the 23rd off, too, to make it a 4 day weekend.) She has also taken extra time off around other holidays.

In contrast, the Jewish folks in the firm have always made it clear that if there is an emergency and someone needs to work over Christmas, they are available. I don't know if anyone has ever taken them up on this, but it's a nice gesture.

One of my partners was desparate for secretarial assistance over Christmas weekend. It sure would have been nice if she had stepped up to the plate (would have made double overtime $$$, too!)

Why should she have to justify vacation time, regardless of her religion?

 

[Bob Slydell]

I think she's just interpreting the "rules" in her own way. The person who told me she was a JW said that when two of her former bosses tried to take her to lunch for her birthday, she declined, but said that she would accept a gift certificate to a restaurant!

Wait -- did you ever actually hear from your secretary herself that she's JW or are you basing this all on a former boss who had a birthday lunch turned down?

Heck, I've turned down birthday lunches before. It had nothing to do with my religion, I just usually don't care to do anything for my birthday.

 

[Miss Jasmine]

Because it was a holiday that she doesn't acknowledge. If I was at a majority Jewish firm that gave us Yom Kippur off, and someone had to come in to work, it would make a lot more sense for me to come in to work than for someone who was busy observing Yom Kippur to come in to work.

As an attorney, you are not making a compelling argument. So what if she doesn't acknowledge that holiday. Perhaps she was doing something with her family because of the days off (not the holiday) and extended thet time. What does it really matter to you? So if someone in your firm was an atheist who didn't celebrate Christmas, would you expect them to work over Christmas as well? What about a Muslim? Would you expect each of them to explain their religious beliefs to you as well?

 

[caitycaity]

Because it was a holiday that she doesn't acknowledge.

first of all, you mentioned she said her mom made tamales for christmas. that probably means her family celebrates it. perhaps she has dinner/lunch/etc with them.

second of all, i am an atheist but i celebrate christmas (though obviously not as the birth of christ - and if someone has a problem with that, let's take it to a different thread, ok?) and i would be pretty unhappy if someone told me that because i didn't celebrate christmas the "right" way or for the "right" reason that i should sacrifice my time with my family.

 

[missypie]

My only points about her taking time off around Christmas are:

1. I should have been able to add up 2 + 2 and figure out that she was JW (esp. after the recent thread), but things like taking her time off around holidays made me think she must be celebrating the various holidays.

2. Offering to work...that would just be a way for her to score points/be admired around the office. Like I said, I don't know that anyone has ever taken the Jewish folks up on their offer to work Christmas, but they sure have scored Brownie points around the office for making the offer.

If they really are forbidden from entering other churches, it's kind of funny to think of her upcoming trip to Italy...that would sure eliminate a lot of the things from the standard "must see in Rome" list.

 

[missypie]

first of all, you mentioned she said her mom made tamales for christmas. that probably means her family celebrates it. perhaps she has dinner/lunch/etc with them.

second of all, i am an atheist but i celebrate christmas (though obviously not as the birth of christ - and if someone has a problem with that, let's take it to a different thread, ok?) and i would be pretty unhappy if someone told me that because i didn't celebrate christmas the "right" way or for the "right" reason that i should sacrifice my time with my family.

You obviously don't celebrate the religious part of Christmas but you celebrate Christmas. As I understand it, devout JW's are forbidden from observing Christmas at all.

 

[missypie]

As an attorney, you are not making a compelling argument. So what if she doesn't acknowledge that holiday. Perhaps she was doing something with her family because of the days off (not the holiday) and extended thet time. What does it really matter to you? So if someone in your firm was an atheist who didn't celebrate Christmas, would you expect them to work over Christmas as well? What about a Muslim? Would you expect each of them to explain their religious beliefs to you as well?

I think that if I was Muslim and was observing Ramadan, it would be a whole lot easier to mention to a few people that I was observing Ramadan than making excuses to decline lunch/coffee/break invitations every day for a month. That's the analogy.

I don't EXPECT her to explain anything to me. It's just that it would be less awkward for her in the workplace if everyone knew...then she wouldn't have to avoid the "what are you bringining to the pot luck?" "what are you wearing to the Christmas party" "what candidate for mayor do you support?" conversations because people woudln't bring those things up around her.

 

[caitycaity]

It's just that it would be less awkward for her in the workplace if everyone knew

i don't mean to be rude, but maybe it isn't awkward for her. maybe it is just awkward for you?

 

[Miss Jasmine]

i don't mean to be rude, but maybe it isn't awkward for her. maybe it is just awkward for you?

Also, missypie, it seems you want to criticize her for maybe picking and choosing the beliefs she wants to stick to as a JW, but that happens in most belief systems. How many Catholics are on birth control? How many Christians are divorced for non-biblical reasons?

 

[SeaSpray]

I'd like to clarify a few things

First of all, the quote about apostates and not mixing with them does NOT apply to the majority of the general public. Here is the definition of apostacy, and an apostate is simply a person who commits apostacy. Also, the admonition to not mix with apostates is taken from the bible, it's not a man-made rule or policy.

Main Entry: apos·ta·sy
Pronunciation: &-'päs-t&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -sies
Etymology: Middle English apostasie, from Late Latin apostasia, from Greek, literally, revolt, from aphistasthai to revolt, from apo- + histasthai to stand -- more at STAND
1 : renunciation of a religious faith
2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : DEFECTION

My sister became one of Jehovah's Witnesses when I about 9 years old (she was 19, she's now 54), so I got to see this religion over the course of many, many years. I got to see how she raised her daughter, who is now 34. I have to say, I really envied the childhood that my niece got to enjoy. Yes, she did not celebrate her birthday or the regular holidays, but boy did she have a lot of fun having parties for her friends (pool parties in the summers, pizza parties with her friends at any time of the year, etc etc). My sister and BIL would buy and wrap presents for my niece at various times of the year, simply because they felt like giving her a present. She also was raised with excellent moral values and standards (I am not saying that other people of other religions do not raise their kids with these same standards! lol) but their religion was such an integral part of their lives that these standards were always in the forefront of their lives.


Another thing regarding the blood issue:

Blood is mentioned specifically in the bible. It is mentioned that blood is sacred to God and is not to be taken in. Back in the day when the bible was written, it said "do not eat". It was a major offense, if an Israelite ate meat with the blood still in it. It does not say "do not take in blood by intravenous", however the meaning, in the opinion of Jehovah's Witnesses, is still the same, that God does not want us to take in blood, by any means.
Jehovah's Witnesses absolutely accept all other medical treatment, and will accept blood volume expanders, and will do everything short of accepting a blood transfusion to stay alive.

Regarding Jehovah's Witnesses keeping aspects of their religion "secret" from others:

Ok this is totally untrue! LOL Talk to any Jehovah Witness, ask them any question about their religion, beliefs, the way their religious society operates, etc, and they will be more than willing to answer all your questions. There is absolutely nothing "secret" about this religion, at all.

Regarding seeing a Jehovah's Witness travel over the holidays:

My sister, BIL and niece would often travel back to NJ during the traditional holidays simply because that's when my BIL had off of work and had the time to take the trips to see us.

Thank you to the person who pointed out that a Jehovah's Witness would *never* burn the flag of their country. They are taught to respect the laws of the land (unless those laws would directly conflict with their religious beliefs), pay their taxes (give Caesar's things back to Caesar). Jehovah's Witnesses are not *against* any government; they are politically neutral, NOT anti-goverment. They recognise that governments are a necessary part of the world we live in right now; without laws and a social structure, the world would be quite a mess. (Imagine no speed limits, for example. lol)

Anyway, just wanted to add a few things to this conversation, thanks for reading!

And P.S. It is very possible that the OP's workmate really is a shy person and that her religious beliefs are not fully the reason for her being a quiet person. I know many, many Jehovah's Witnesses, some are shy, some very outgoing, and everything in between. Like others have said, sometimes it can be a difficult thing to announce something about yourself to people you work with, if you think they may not accept it, and especially in the work place because there is not necessarily a need to share one's beliefs with work mates.

 

[missypie]

i don't mean to be rude, but maybe it isn't awkward for her. maybe it is just awkward for you?

Not awkward for me...I always just thought she was either painfully shy or anti-social...doesn't matter to me. It just seems like it would be awkward to always be declining invitations. EVERYONE goes to the week before Thanksgiving pot-luck. How many people must drop by her desk and say "Wanna walk up to the luncheon?" "What time are you going to the luncheon?" "What did you bring to the luncheon?" That's just normal office behavior.

 

[missypie]

So SeaSpray, since you seem to have some actual knowledge here...I know what the Bible says about blood. But the Bible also says a lot about food. Why don't JW's "keep Kosher"?

 

[JennyMominRI]

So SeaSpray, since you seem to have some actual knowledge here...I know what the Bible says about blood. But the Bible also says a lot about food. Why don't JW's "keep Kosher"?

I can answer this one..Christians believe the T made all of the old Jewish laws obsolite..The whole Jesus fulfiling the law things.. The book of acts however ,states keep Abstaining from blood..I don't have the exact words but that's the general idea.. JW's believe the NT specifically tells them to keep that particular law

 

[SeaSpray]

So SeaSpray, since you seem to have some actual knowledge here...I know what the Bible says about blood. But the Bible also says a lot about food. Why don't JW's "keep Kosher"?

Hey that is a good question, actually

The answer is that the laws pertaining to keeping kosher were part of the Mosaic Law. This law was given to the Israelites, by God, via Moses. When Jesus died, the bible says that he was "the end of the law", so that they were no longer obligated under that Law. That's why Jehovah's Witnesses don't "keep kosher".

 

[missypie]

I will say that as a mom of three who works herself to the bone, spends a ton of money and gets very little sleep from late October to mid-January (Halloween, DD's birthday on 11/3, other DD's birthday on 11/9,
Thanksgiving, Christmas, DH's birthday on 12/26, DH's twin's birthday on 12/26, DH's other brother's birthday on 12/27, nephew's birthday on 12/31 and DS's birthday on 1/14), I would certainly have a more pleasant life if I stopped buying, wrapping, cooking, sewing, and decorating for all those holidays and instead gave gifts and did special things when it was convenient for me! I think that maybe some tired, broke mom must have started the "no celebration of holidays" rule...

 

[RoyalCanadian]

Hey that is a good question, actually

The answer is that the laws pertaining to keeping kosher were part of the Mosaic Law. This law was given to the Israelites, by God, via Moses. When Jesus died, the bible says that he was "the end of the law", so that they were no longer obligated under that Law. That's why Jehovah's Witnesses don't "keep kosher".

It's a convenient way of picking and choosing which parts of the law Christians and non-Christians (such as Watchtower Society members) will follow. While they choose not to keep kosher I would wager they choose to enforce the Levitical rules concerning homosexuality and conveniently ignore the laws concerning seafood when a supper at Red Lobster or Joe's Crab Shack is on the itinerary.

Today I was on the telephone with a local group seeking to repeal Canada's law allowing same-sex marriage. (We are in the end stages of a federal election here in Canada -- this group wants my Church to distribute their propaganda) The lady quoted this whole thing about the New Testament replacing the Old Testament when I asked her if her biblical standard of marriage included the one man/many wives marriages evidenced in the Old Testament. However, she was quick to embrace the book of Leviticus when I asked if her that thinking meant the laws of the Old Testament were no longer in effect. I wonder how she would have responded had I pointed out what the prophet Ezekiel and Jesus Christ said was the true sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. (a lack of hospitality)

All I know is that there are more important things to worry about than biblical pronouncements upon the ingestion of blood, homosexuality, seafood, and mixed fibres. The prophet Micah summed it up nicely when he suggested that our obligation to God commanded that we should do justice, love kindness and walk humbly with our God.

 

[JoeEpcotRocks]

It's a convenient way of picking and choosing which parts of the law Christians and non-Christians (such as Watchtower Society members) will follow. While they choose not to keep kosher I would wager they choose to enforce the Levitical rules concerning homosexuality and conveniently ignore the laws concerning seafood when a supper at Red Lobster or Joe's Crab Shack is on the itinerary.

Today I was on the telephone with a local group seeking to repeal Canada's law allowing same-sex marriage. (We are in the end stages of a federal election here in Canada -- this group wants my Church to distribute their propaganda) The lady quoted this whole thing about the New Testament replacing the Old Testament when I asked her if her biblical standard of marriage included the one man/many wives marriages evidenced in the Old Testament. However, she was quick to embrace the book of Leviticus when I asked if her that thinking meant the laws of the Old Testament were no longer in effect. I wonder how she would have responded had I pointed out what the prophet Ezekiel and Jesus Christ said was the true sin of Sodom and Gomorrah. (a lack of hospitality)

All I know is that there are more important things to worry about than biblical pronouncements upon the ingestion of blood, homosexuality, seafood, and mixed fibres. The prophet Micah summed it up nicely when he suggested that our obligation to God commanded that we should do justice, love kindness and walk humbly with our God.

We Christians have heard the "sea food" argument many times before -- used to ignore what the Bible says or for people to do whatever they want. It doesn't hold water as the poster you quoted has noted.