I have a question?

[YesDear]

In another post on this board a discussion has developed regarding sales and signage and what merchants should honor and what they are legally required to honor. This post is not an attempt to argue the virtues of either side of that issue. While that post dealt with The Disney Store, I see alot of posts on this and other boards as to what merchants should do and what is good customer service! I am also not wanting to start a discussion as to what good or bad customers service is!!!!

My question is: Do you know what your State or local community has in the way of laws and regulations regarding sales and discount offers? What are merchants required to honor, in your state, if they screw up, leave something out, or just do not say what they meant.

The reason I do ask the question, is I see alot of discussion on many of these boards regarding what is right and wrong about merchants and what they will and won't do. I see alot of responses I may not agree with and wonder if you come from a different frame of reference then I do because laws are different accross the country. If you are used to a different set of laws, then your expectations may be higher or lower then mine, based upon your local tradition as it may be.

While we all have our ideas as to what those rules should be, I am hoping the responses here will try to limit it to what the laws and regulations are!

I am posting this here because I think it has a direct effect on how we budget our purchases and what we expect from them.

Thanks

 

[BethR]

Hi there YesDear (love the name )!

Good question!

I have always been under the ASSUMPTION (and you know where THAT gets you! ) that here in Pennsylvania, that if a sign signifies a price or a percentage discount on a particular product, that you the store must give it to you at the price that was displayed. But I am not sure if that has always been the goodwill of the store or PA state law.

It will be interesting to hear what others have to say...

 

[whois figment]

Great topic!

In Ma. the law states that the store has to honor the signs that are posted. Most retailers now put expiration dates on all there signs in case this miss taking one down they are not required to honor it. Another law in Ma. is that nothing can be sold as is. If you by something as a closeout item and there is a problem with it they have to let you return it.

 

[Daxx]

As the OP of the signage post for tix ... in NY, it is law that signage must be honored.

For example, there are solid and striped shirts under a sign stating "Shirts $3 ea., reg. price $8.99". I take a striped one to the register and they charge me $8.99. I tell the cashier that they're marked $3.99. She says "well, not the striped ones". B/c I chose a striped one, they must give me the striped shirt for $3 b/c the sign does not specify solids only. If the wrong merchandise is there, the store has to take the fault of it and give the customer what is advertised on the sign. If the sign stated "Shirts $3 ea, reg. price $8.99 *stripe shirts not included in sale*" then I don't have a leg to stand on. If signage is incorrect, the stores must stand behind and honor what the signage reads.

We also have the "Scanner Law". Using the above example of shirts being on sale for $3, reg. price $8.99. If I purchase the shirt that is on sale for $3. and the cashier scans the UPC and it comes up original price ($8.99) and I am charged that price at the register, I am entitled, by law, to take the shirt and receipt to customer service and get a "Super Refund". The super refund is 10 times the price difference of the item up to $10. So, for the shirt, the price difference is $5.99. I would receive 10 times the price difference but only until it adds to $10. So, 10x5.99 is $59.99 and b/c the refund is only up to $10 I would not receive that much ... I would receive $10 for the store's error. But, if the price difference between original and sale price of an item is $.98, you'd receive $9.80. However, a Super Refund is not automatically given. You must ask for it!!!

Now, the Scanner Law is good in major department stores (Target, Wal-Mart, but NOT JC Penney, Sears) and supermarkets. Small boutiques and mini-marts do not adhere to this law. This law was instituted b/c of so many scanner errors. And, the law allows these stores to NOT individually price every item in the store (ie: cans of corn, shirts, shampoo). B/c the store promises the state that its scanners will be accurate, this is the penalty they accept from NYS.

I think consumers need to be aware of the laws when it comes to signage and items they are purchasing!

 

[YesDear]

That is very interesting. Thanks for the info. What would happen if the shirt truly sells for $8.99 but when it rung up it showed $3.99 and the clerk caught it. Could they change it to the true price?

I know North Carolina has a scanner law as well, but I believe it says they only have to honor the lower price.

I also believe if there are qualifications for a sale, as long as they have written somewhere what the rules are you are not required to honor a sale item. So if you bought the striped shirt and they said that was not a part of the sale, you had the option of buying at full price or not buying it.

Assuming what you have said is true and what I have said is true, I can now easily see why there are so many strong opinions about what is "right". ( And believe me I am not saying anything you said is wrong)

Thanks again for the information. I hope others from other areas will respond. This is interesting!

 

[Lewisc]

Stores can always get out of typo errors in ads. In the past stores would do alot for "goodwill" The internet, specifically sites like fatwallet, makes that impossible. It's one thing to sell a few items at an inccorect price but not tens of thousands.

Consumer affairs go after stores that never have sale items in stock or have a pattern of deceptive sales.

Stores (almost always) restrict the number of items you can buy in case of erros. In the case of scanner error you can (at least store I shop) only buy 1 item.

In one of the Disney threads a person was told the signage was in error but was still allowed to get the movie tickets. This person then went to another store and did the same. If the store makes a mistake I don't think legally or ethically they are obliged to sell you an unlimited quantity.

 

[DMRick]

We also have the "Scanner Law". Using the above example of shirts being on sale for $3, reg. price $8.99. If I purchase the shirt that is on sale for $3. and the cashier scans the UPC and it comes up original price ($8.99) and I am charged that price at the register, I am entitled, by law, to take the shirt and receipt to customer service and get a "Super Refund". The super refund is 10 times the price difference of the item up to $10.

Can you post a place online where I can find that law for NYS? I know different counties have different laws,and I would be most interested in finding the book on this one.

I tell the cashier that they're marked $3.99. She says "well, not the striped ones".

Actually, I would like this one too..where would I find this info in writing?

I think as people post laws on this board, it would be most helpful for them to post where the law is, or cite the code number...otherwise it does us no good.
Thanks.

 

[BethR]

OK everyone, let me interject here. The OP was asking for information about laws in different states so that we may all have an understanding how laws may differ from place to place and so we may have differing expectations from stores in different states.

This thread was NOT to discuss anything specific nor to cast judgements or aspertions on anyone or any place - and those things will not be tolerated.

Please keep that in mind when posting.

Thank you!

 

[DMRick]

The OP was asking for information about laws in different states so that we may all have an understanding how laws may differ from place to place

But without knowing where to find the actual law (since most of us aren't lawyers)..I could post that the law in NY is that if you have the price off one penny...you have to give it for free. If someone is telling me what the law is in NY, I'd like to see something backing it up..otherwise this discussion wouldn't be anything different (just a continuation) from the locked discussion, would it? I'm not inferring I don't believe that is the way it is in NYS..but just like having to see the signs about mugs in the resorts..I want to be able to back up what I might tell the next person. She quoted very specific NY law, so I want to be able to use..where would I find it?
I live in NYS, and I am very interested in the laws she mentioned..but I'd like to see cite, since that is the only way to really be able to read and understand the law, and knowing how to prove that is the law, is the only way it would be helpful information.
Or am I taking this thread wrong, and the OP just wants to know what you think the law is? I'm a little confused..if you can't discuss specific's, then what would you discuss?

 

[Lewisc]

AFAIK NY law on scanner errors is done at the county level and not at the state level. A google search gets you local laws on pricing scanners and state laws concerning police scanners in automobiles.

Most of the stores posted policy on scanner errors is to let you buy ONE item at the lower price (sometimes up to a maximum discount). Face it the intent is to correct a store error not to allow customers to benefit by changing price labels (even if the price changing was done by a different customer). Last time I benefited by a scanner error the store corrected the computer immediately.

Many of the adjustments that are done for goodwill.

Business are allowed latitude to correct mistakes in ads all the time.

 

[BethR]

DMRick,

I am sorry that I was not clear in what I am asking for. Asking for a link to a page that shows a particular law for any particular state is very much appropriate here.

What I was referring to is that no one needs to harken back to any previous thread or poster when giving information on this thread. It is not necessary to sharing the information that YesDear seeks.

Laws and links to back them up are good.

Pointing fingers is bad.

That's all that I tried unsuccessfully to say.

 

[Lewisc]

Beth--my only point was in the thread being referred to Disney stores made a "goodwill" adjustment not once but twice. Reputable business go the extra mile all the time. Usually there is enough "wiggle" room so that they aren't required to honor ads that have errors.

If you think my previous post was too harsh feel free to delete it (and this post as well).

 

[BethR]

No need for any editing or deleting so far Lewisc.

Just have seen too many threads (on this board and others) "go south" lately. Just trying to keep that from happening on this one too.

It never hurts to post a reminder to everyone to abide by the Guidelines for Posting.

 

[YesDear]

I think the last several posts were the reason for my question. I was curious as to which states or local areas had specific laws regarding retail sales and things like scanner errors.

There have been many posts on many threads about what someone should and should not do given a specific set of facts. I was curious as to what the laws were. Some have even referred to specific laws. I wondered if they were laws or just what we thought should be laws. I am getting the feeling that some places have very specific laws and others have none. I also feel that is why there are so many vigourous discussions on these boards regarding these issues. Many people are used to what is done where they live.

Two things:

First I am trying to separate laws from goodwill. What someone should do for goodwill is a totally different discussion that probably would not survive on this board. ( I also think I am not brave enough to post that on the Debate Board) LOL

Secondly, again I am not going to challenge anyone one if their facts are correct. I am calling the AG's Consumer Affairs Office here tomorrow to see if they can refer me to the NC laws if any, and I will gladly post them here. If others are successful doing the same then great. If you think you know what the law is, great too. If someone corrects you then we all have learned something.

I do agree with the moderator that we can do this without specific reference to previous posts.

I also would like to thank her for responding. I noticed a lot or reads and no answers. She bumped it up and got the conversations started.

 

[Lewisc]

When you call ask how many units (if any) a retailer has to sell if their is an obvious typo in the ad or even a pricing error. An example would be a product that is suppose to sell for $120 that is priced at $12. Do they have to sell you one item, their entire inventory, offer you a raincheck for additional items?

Fatwallet and other sites make a point of finding such errors. Companies like Amazon and Bestbuy don't honor mistakes like that. Curious if any state require it.

Another example--percent off discounts never apply to gift certificates/gift cards. If a retailer neglects to add that disclaimer can they be required to sell it?

I am curious what NC tells you.

Not being rude , the question is LEGALLY, how far is the business required to go in cases like this.

 

[Daxx]

http://www.erie.gov/legislature/district08_news062502.asp - talks about scanner accuracy law in Erie County.

http://www.co.st-lawrence.ny.us/Weights_and_Measures/SLCWAMIPL.htm - if you scroll practically to the bottom, it's there for yet another county.

I apologize as I thought it was throughout the state. It appears the choice to use it is a county decision. However, if your county uses the scanner law, stores can opt out of it but it is my understanding that these stores pay a higher compensation to their county and have to put a price tag on everything.

I hope the above websites answer questions of the validity of scanner accuracy law. DM Rick -- since I don't know what county you're residing in, you can check google for each county in NYS to see if yours is included.

When you go into any store in NYS, you can ask if they follow the scanner accuracy law and offer a super refund. Our local news just covered this and found that stores like GAP, Old Navy, JC Penney and Sears do not offer the super refund even though it is a county law. I think it's b/c they item price everything in the store. I know that my local Wal-Mart, Target and K-Mart offer the super discount as it's stated on the wall at their returns desk. Our local supermarkets honor it as well. A well known supermarket in this area is infamous for handing out super refunds!

The reason you must ask for the refund is b/c the store is charged a fine every time a scanner reads incorrectly. The stores hope that people do not ask b/c it requires the store and consumer to fill out paperwork that goes to the state and county and then they are penalized (quite a bit, if you read the above links).

As for the person who asked if a shirt was priced at $8.99 (I'm guessing you mean it wasn't on sale, nor did the tag reflect a marked down price) and it rang up $3 instead of the original price and the cashier said she had to charge full price ... I really don't know. They might honor it so the consumer doesn't file a scanner error complaint w/the Attorney General. I really don't have an answer for that as I haven't come across it. Sometimes things are marked down w/o the tag being marked. This happens a lot at Target -- the price isn't marked down w/a red sticker and it rings up less b/c sometimes they do not get to mark everything down. This is why you have to pay attention to your scanner. I have been in the GAP and noticed that the original price tag once had a sticker (sale) tag on it that was peeled off. I have to guess that the sale sticker was removed b/c someone goofed and marked the wrong item down. If the price tag is marked w/a sale price, I think the stores must honor the price on the tag.

From personal experience ... eons ago, working at The Limited. We marked down certain sweaters (say they were striped). Some solids were accidentally marked down. When the customer brought the solid sweaters to the register, they rang up at non-sale price. B/c they were marked down w/a new, lower price, we had to give them the sweaters at that red-line price. Also, a manager forgot to take a buy one/get one free sign from a sock rack and we had to honor it for the customers who were in the store at the time. Why? B/c the consumer could file a lawsuit against us for upping a marked price or for not following the signage. I would assume this is done out of good will ... but also done to cover the company's backside.

As for the person who wanted law on store signage ... I didn't say there was a law. Shirts (solids and stripes) on the rack have signage that reads "Shirts $3 each, regular price $8.99". Tags on both stripe and solid shirts have original price of $8.99. What words in that sign lead me to believe that stripes aren't part of the deal? Nowhere on the sign does it state "solids only". Clearly, the sign states "Shirts $3 each, regular price $8.99". Since signage is not accurate, isn't it the store's responsibility to give the person what is advertised - in this example, the $8.99 shirt for $3? A simple addition (even hand written) of the words "excludes stripe shirts" would make it clear. Another example - if a sign read "All 32 oz. Coke Products $1.00 ea." wouldn't that lead the consumer to believe that Diet, chery and vanilla Coke are included?

This is the NYState Consumer Affairs website re. false advertising, bait and switch, etc. and it's interesting to read: http://www.consumer.state.ny.us/clahm/Clahm-FalseAdvertising.htm#False Advertising

For more information on your state's consumer affairs, contact your local agency. It's good to know what your laws/rights are!

 

[Daxx]

Also ... the retractions they print in the Sun. newspaper, you know ... they're usually the front page section and they read "We're Sorry! The lawnmower listed in our June 1st flier is $399.00, not $39.90! We apologize for any inconvenience!" Obviously, those are used to cover their butts.

I wonder what the legalities are? Do they vary by state? I wonder if there are laws that if a retraction is printed w/in a certain time time after the ad is out to the public, then they can refuse to sell at that price? If there is no retraction, do you get the lawnmower for $39.90? If you didn't, would that be considered false advertising?

 

[DMRick]

Since signage is not accurate, isn't it the store's responsibility to give the person what is advertised - in this example, the $8.99 shirt for $3? A simple addition (even hand written) of the words "excludes stripe shirts" would make it clear

While it would be nice, and make sense to us..I don't think..at least in my area..that they need to give you the shirt that isn't included. What I've heard them say was simply that it was a mistake..the "night" person shouldn't have put them on the aisle.

It appears my county has not put this info on line..I've done a few searches and can't find it : (

 

[Lewisc]

daxx--Thanks for the links. Several times I tried to buy an item from the sale rack only to be told someone (another customer) put it there. From looking at the item it was obvious the store was right. I never felt the need to press the point.

 

[Daxx]

Lewisc - You're welcome. I hope you find them interesting!

Now, I agree- -- if an item is put on a rack and it's obvious that it's not on sale, then I would not expect to get it at a cut rate.

What if there are several (say 25) of the wrong item on the sale rack? And, they are not marked, and the price reads "Shirts $3.00, original price $8.99" and the other shirts (25 of them, on the same rack) happen to be at the $8.99 price point, though?

Not an arguement ... just wondering.