I finally get why people walk reservations. Disappointed.

[JeffCD]

This actually one of my biggest concerns, I've been on the fence about buying DVC for about a year now. Missed the dip in price at the VGC last year and still considering even though the price has gone up. My situation is that I really only want the VGC, during the Holiday season (I'm okay with November, doesn't have to be December), and a studio. I know that I'm being very picky, but me and wife know what we like . I'd be more than a little cranky if I purchased resale points for the VGC, and I couldn't use them because I didn't jump on the reservation system at 4 am with split second clicks, or everything was already booked because of people walking reservations for long period of time. So I keep going back and forth about buying...

 

[dez1978]

Disney has a bigger incentive to want their customers to feel good about the DVC purchase. I'll bet that's a huge reason for the "welcome home" thing where they pull out all the stops to get you your first reservation.

I think they quit caring about DVC members feelings some time ago. After they have your money I think they care a lot less about your satisfaction. If they really cared that much, we'd have a better functioning DVC website.

 

[tx911]

This actually one of my biggest concerns, I've been on the fence about buying DVC for about a year now. Missed the dip in price at the VGC last year and still considering even though the price has gone up. My situation is that I really only want the VGC, during the Holiday season (I'm okay with November, doesn't have to be December), and a studio. I know that I'm being very picky, but me and wife know what we like . I'd be more than a little cranky if I purchased resale points for the VGC, and I couldn't use them because I didn't jump on the reservation system at 4 am with split second clicks, or everything was already booked because of people walking reservations for long period of time. So I keep going back and forth about buying...

Yeah, that's a tough one. The availability tables at DVCHelp look horrible for those dates, although the ones at DVCfieldguide look pretty good. Would definitely have to ask existing owners.

 

[ehh]

I also tend to do 1BRs. The 1BR premium is interesting to me how it varies by resort. In theory, it should be based on square footage, but in my analysis it does not usually correlate to that. I'm assuming demand is what causes the variation.

VGF has the highest premium for a 1BR, and that's partly why I didn't buy there this summer. I'm assuming there is demand that is pushing the points premium that high at VGF? Because BLT does not have the same premium for 1BRs. But overall it feels like there is no rhyme or reason to the 1BR premium.

Resort	View	1BR Point Premium	1BR Square Footage Increase
VGF	Standard	128%	126%
RIV	Preferred	127%	92%
AKV	Value	122%	99%
RIV	Standard	121%	92%
VGF	Lake	119%	126%
OKW	Standard	118%	158%
OKW	Near Hospitality	118%	158%
BWV	Garden/Pool	118%	98%
BWV	Boardwalk	118%	98%
BCV	Standard	116%	102%
BRV	Standard	114%	104%
SSR	Preferred	107%	113%
CCV	Standard	103%	100%
BWV	Standard	103%	98%
AKV	Kilimanjaro Club	103%	97%
SSR	Standard	102%	113%
HHI	Standard	101%	88%
AUL	Pool Side Gardens	100%	112%
AUL	Ocean	100%	112%
VGC	Standard	100%	128%
BLT	Theme Park	98%	137%
BLT	Lake	96%	137%
AKV	Standard	95%	97%
AKV	Savanna	94%	120%
AUL	Standard	92%	112%
BLT	Standard	89%	137%
VB	Standard	86%	135%
AUL	Island Gardens	85%	112%

While your broader point might have merit (I also can't find much rhyme or reason in the 1BR premium) and I appreciate the effort it took to do this analysis and share it, in my opinion these figures are borderline misleading.

From what I can tell, this is just points from Season 4 (2024: Feb 1-15, Jun 11 - Aug 31) and is not representative of the entire year or other seasons. Each resort has its own seasonality, so it's not a safe assumption to take a single season and assume it represents the entire year.

As an example of how this is misleading, for the entire year, VGF Standard View 1BR premium is 109% over VGF SV Studios, not 128%. Some seasons (Seasons 1 and 6) are even less than 100% and Seasons 5 and 7 are within two points (for a full week) of 100%.

A similar, but different story is true for RIV Preferred View 1BR, too. Full year premium is 112%, not 127%, and it has one season less than 100% (Season 7, peak season). Most seasons are around a 110% premium.

I've only done a cursory check of the resorts using the entire year points chart, but it looks like RIV has the highest premium, then OKW, then VGF, then maybe SSR? VBR has the lowest 1BR premium at just 64% (1BR vs. Studio, ignoring Inn rooms), VDH 2nd lowest at 73%.

EDIT: my VBR numbers were incorrect, VDH is lowest at 73% premium.

 

[Brian Noble]

I think they quit caring about DVC members feelings some time ago.

A timeshare developer makes money by selling new timeshares.

They also make (quite a bit less) on the management fee, but that's money in the bank--the owners are contractually responsible for paying their annual costs. If someone doesn't want it anymore, they are probably going to sell or give it to someone else, and that someone else will become responsible. The developer doesn't even run much risk with owners who do not pay their fees. That lost revenue is charged back to the other owners who do pay as "bad debt", with the overall resort costs and associated management fee still covered.

However, there is some motivation to keep current owners happy, because current owners are easier to sell to than new prospects. But, this isn't "keep every single individual owner happy." Instead, it is "do what you can to keep the overall satisfaction level high enough that there is a steady flow of upgrade sales."

That brings me back to the subjective nature of walking: some people hate it. Other people think it is great, because they are willing to do it. If you are willing to walk, once you have an earlier reservation in place, you are almost guaranteed to get the (later) reservation you want--the only risk is running into a fixed week and getting very unluckly about being later than others who are also walking. Or maybe hitting the leading edge of a refurbishment/unit being taken offline for maintenance, etc. So, not quite iron clad, but pretty close.

If you read DIS regularly, you'd get the impression that most people hate walking and want to see it stopped. But I will bet money that more people on DIS walk than post about it. It's not the sort of thing you want to talk about if you take advantage of it, because the more people do it the harder it gets to secure that spec reservation. On top of that, it's obvious that some people really hate it. Why poke that particular bear when you can just quietly go about the business of booking a hard-to-get reservation instead?

 

[maui22]

I have been thinking about how DW and I used our points the last 3 years. I suspect some of the difficulty in booking at 11 months may be because many were like DW and I. From covid we went from constantly borrowing points to having no choice but to use or lose banked points. In fact for 2024 we ended up adding on more points because we were using all possible borrowed points and still needed to book 4 more rooms.

We definitely put extra demand on room booking at 11 months. I suspect others have similar stories of using a lot more points from 2021-2024 than other years of owning.

During Great Recession many didn’t book. For example, we were able to book BCV studios during F&W multiple times.

At some point in the future we may laugh and say of course 2021-2024 was harder to book.

 

[thanxfornoticin]

I also believe that the more people have used Walking, and used it as a bit of a DVC 'hack' in the past - more people have asked about it, learned about it, and we probably have way more people willing to do it for certain rooms now. It's a bigger thing now!

 

[Jlo85]

While your broader point might have merit (I also can't find much rhyme or reason in the 1BR premium) and I appreciate the effort it took to do this analysis and share it, in my opinion these figures are borderline misleading.

From what I can tell, this is just points from Season 4 (2024: Feb 1-15, Jun 11 - Aug 31) and is not representative of the entire year or other seasons. Each resort has its own seasonality, so it's not a safe assumption to take a single season and assume it represents the entire year.

As an example of how this is misleading, for the entire year, VGF Standard View 1BR premium is 109% over VGF SV Studios, not 128%. Some seasons (Seasons 1 and 6) are even less than 100% and Seasons 5 and 7 are within two points (for a full week) of 100%.

A similar, but different story is true for RIV Preferred View 1BR, too. Full year premium is 112%, not 127%, and it has one season less than 100% (Season 7, peak season). Most seasons are around a 110% premium.

I've only done a cursory check of the resorts using the entire year points chart, but it looks like RIV has the highest premium, then OKW, then VGF, then maybe SSR? VBR has the lowest 1BR premium at just 64% (1BR vs. Studio, ignoring Inn rooms), VDH 2nd lowest at 73%.

Fair enough. I did a review of the total annual points, and this is what I found. VGF isn't the worst overall, but it definitely is up there with RIV. OKW is high, but it is also an outlier with a much larger 1BR unit. VB, BLT, AUL, and AKV (other than value) appear to be better bargains for a 1BR upgrade.

Resort	View	Studio Pts	1BR Pts	1BR Pts Premium	Studio SQ FT	1BR SQ FT	1BR Sq Ft Increase
AKV	Value	3800	8171	115%	316	629	99%
RIV	Standard	6953	14755	112%	423	813	92%
RIV	Preferred	8684	18393	112%	423	813	92%
OKW	Standard	4879	10278	111%	390	1005	158%
OKW	Near Hospitality	4879	10278	111%	390	1005	158%
VGF	Lake	9133	19159	110%	374	844	126%
VGF	Standard	7617	15954	109%	374	844	126%
SSR	Standard	5980	12466	108%	335	714	113%
BWV	Standard	4948	10244	107%	359	712	98%
AKV	Kilimanjaro Club	8338	17126	105%	365	720	97%
SSR	Preferred	5285	10837	105%	335	714	113%
CCV	Standard	6314	12899	104%	338	675	100%
BRV	Standard	6330	12881	103%	356	727	104%
BCV	Standard	6344	12891	103%	356	719	102%
BWV	Garden/Pool	6440	13066	103%	359	712	98%
BWV	Boardwalk	6440	13066	103%	359	712	98%
HHI	Standard	5230	10278	97%	455	856	88%
VGC	Standard	8536	16772	96%	379	865	128%
BLT	Theme Park	8789	17249	96%	339	803	137%
AKV	Standard	5324	10447	96%	365	720	97%
AUL	Standard	7285	14291	96%	356	756	112%
AKV	Savanna	6599	12851	95%	366	807	120%
AUL	Pool Side Gardens	9183	17814	94%	356	756	112%
BLT	Lake	7369	14275	94%	339	803	137%
AUL	Ocean	9964	19230	93%	356	756	112%
AUL	Island Gardens	8155	15580	91%	356	756	112%
BLT	Standard	6536	12461	91%	339	803	137%
VB	Standard	6212	11340	83%	375	880	135%

 

[crisi]

VGF owner since 2013. I 100% agree with @Sandisw that the Deluxe Studios are harder to get since the addition of the hotel rooms to the association.

IMHO, it would have been much better if DVD had at least diversified by making some of the hotel rooms have a King bed instead of 2 queens.

One of the issues is the more room types DVC has, the harder it gets to string together multiple nights in a room as things get tight. There are more and more rooms available for a single night, which leads to more people piecing together reservations by moving resorts or rooms type. Although I LOVE having Boardwalk View and Standard View available to me at Boardwalk, that means that its that much harder to get rooms without having to move as things get tighter. So while I understand a desire for more flexibility in rooms, I don't want the result and frankly think that Disney has already gone way overboard in that respect.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

The problem is, I already booked a more point-intensive studio so that I would have something over the dates I want.

If I continue to book nights in another room each day as you suggest, I would have to keep borrowing points to do so. Even if I am successful and eventually cancel my current booking, won't the points be stuck in the 2024 UY at that point?

Yes. You could continue to borrow and then bank the 2024 points into 2025. It does limit your flexibility next year, but it’s an option.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I am not sure the advantage of owning at BLT is worth the premium (even with resale prices down) of buying SSR points and using them at BLT.

Of course, there may be an exception if you travel at the very peak times.

Without negotiating on the SSR side I can buy 25-30% more points at SSR for what I would spend at BLT even offering 10% lower than the lowest asking price for a BLT listing.

For a 1 bedroom at BLT the standard room is 15% more than a lake view room and the standard room is not always available at 11 months. 9 days either 295 or 340 points

I save 25% on cost and have to spend 15% more on booking but get a better view. Plus, there is no guarantee the less expensive BLT room would be available anyway.

None of the above means I have taken BLT out of consideration it is just to say there are a lot of things to consider when you decide what to buy.
It is why the emotional aspect of what you want to own means so much.

We own at 5 resorts and our SSR points are our favorite. I will never understand the buy where you want to stay argument. It only has value in very narrow situations. We should have purchased all SSR. I realize now that all our other buys were purely sentimental. And to see the resort pics flip on our dashboard lol

 

[DebbieB]

I think they quit caring about DVC members feelings some time ago. After they have your money I think they care a lot less about your satisfaction. If they really cared that much, we'd have a better functioning DVC website.

Disney IT in general is horrible, they don’t want to invest in something that doesn’t have a direct return. Like any business, they care about you to the extent that it brings them more business.

 

[Tatebeck]

We own at 5 resorts and our SSR points are our favorite. I will never understand the buy where you want to stay argument. It only has value in very narrow situations. We should have purchased all SSR. I realize now that all our other buys were purely sentimental. And to see the resort pics flip on our dashboard lol

It just adds more flexibility. It's always easier to turn BLT/Poly/VGF points etc into a stay at SSR than turning SSR points into one of those other resort stays.

SSR is very cheap for decent sleep around points for now. That may change depending on what the Disney Trust is actually for and if it changes 7 month booking availabilities. If it does change it, the owners of just SSR better REALLY like staying at SSR lol.

 

[tx911]

It just adds more flexibility. It's always easier to turn BLT/Poly/VGF points etc into a stay at SSR than turning SSR points into one of those other resort stays.

SSR is very cheap for decent sleep around points for now. That may change depending on what the Disney Trust is actually for and if it changes 7 month booking availabilities. If it does change it, the owners of just SSR better REALLY like staying at SSR lol.

Yeah, I’d say my experience so far has only reinforced the “buy where you want to stay” mantra I read so often on this board.

 

[intamin]

We own at 5 resorts and our SSR points are our favorite. I will never understand the buy where you want to stay argument. It only has value in very narrow situations. We should have purchased all SSR. I realize now that all our other buys were purely sentimental. And to see the resort pics flip on our dashboard lol

I mean it really depends on your travel habits how much the booking window matters. If you like going to Boardwalk during July and staying in a 1BR, then yeah not necessary to own there. On the other hand, if you like staying in a Boardwalk standard studio during Food and Wine in September then you better own there. Want to stay at Beach Club/Grand Cal studio at any time of the year for a consecutive week long stay? Probably need to own there.

Same thing could be said for Aulani. Most times of the year, probably don't really need to own there but if you want to stay in a hotel room/standard studio for a week in June, you're not getting those rooms without owning at Aulani.

I agree some of it is sentimental value, but also a good chunk of it is peace of mind knowing you're going to be able to book what you want when you want. How much that's worth to you is obviously subjective. I know my AKV contract was definitely a sentimental one but at the same time it's gotten me into value studios and club level multiple times. My typical AKV stay goes club level -> value studio so I pay close to the same amount as 2 nights in a standard studio but end up getting club level food for nearly 2 full days which I wouldn't be able to do nearly as frequently without owning there.

It just adds more flexibility. It's always easier to turn BLT/Poly/VGF points etc into a stay at SSR than turning SSR points into one of those other resort stays.

SSR is very cheap for decent sleep around points for now. That may change depending on what the Disney Trust is actually for and if it changes 7 month booking availabilities. If it does change it, the owners of just SSR better REALLY like staying at SSR lol.

Agreed with this. I bought my sub dues AUL contract because we wanted SAP. Could've gone for SSR but I was willing to pay a little more in dues/buy in for the home booking window to ensure being able to go whenever the kids are out of school in June. Seeing all the posts on the DVC fan facebook page about not being able to get what they wanted at 7 months just made me happier I own some points at Aulani.

I say the exact same thing about owning SSR that it's far easier to turn BLT/CCV/VGF points into SSR than the opposite. If I'm paying 90% of the same cost in dues, I'm okay with paying a little more for the few times I do benefit from owning at these places whether that's July 4th at BLT or early December at CCV. I know SSR is one of the best value points in DVC, but I can't get myself to own there. Maybe if I wanted some cabungalow points but even then I'd probably still buy a large CCV/BLT/VGF contract over it.

 

[tidefan]

I mean it really depends on your travel habits how much the booking window matters. If you like going to Boardwalk during July and staying in a 1BR, then yeah not necessary to own there. On the other hand, if you like staying in a Boardwalk standard studio during Food and Wine in September then you better own there. Want to stay at Beach Club/Grand Cal studio at any time of the year for a consecutive week long stay? Probably need to own there.

Same thing could be said for Aulani. Most times of the year, probably don't really need to own there but if you want to stay in a hotel room/standard studio for a week in June, you're not getting those rooms without owning at Aulani.

I agree some of it is sentimental value, but also a good chunk of it is peace of mind knowing you're going to be able to book what you want when you want. How much that's worth to you is obviously subjective. I know my AKV contract was definitely a sentimental one but at the same time it's gotten me into value studios and club level multiple times. My typical AKV stay goes club level -> value studio so I pay close to the same amount as 2 nights in a standard studio but end up getting club level food for nearly 2 full days which I wouldn't be able to do nearly as frequently without owning there.


Agreed with this. I bought my sub dues AUL contract because we wanted SAP. Could've gone for SSR but I was willing to pay a little more in dues/buy in for the home booking window to ensure being able to go whenever the kids are out of school in June. Seeing all the posts on the DVC fan facebook page about not being able to get what they wanted at 7 months just made me happier I own some points at Aulani.

I say the exact same thing about owning SSR that it's far easier to turn BLT/CCV/VGF points into SSR than the opposite. If I'm paying 90% of the same cost in dues, I'm okay with paying a little more for the few times I do benefit from owning at these places whether that's July 4th at BLT or early December at CCV. I know SSR is one of the best value points in DVC, but I can't get myself to own there. Maybe if I wanted some cabungalow points but even then I'd probably still buy a large CCV/BLT/VGF contract over it.

I think this is very individually dependent. We own at 4 resorts (SSR, BLT, VGF, and PVB), but really only regularly use the 11 month window at one of them (BLT at Labor Day for MNSSHP).

Maybe it’s because we’ve owned for a decent amount of time and stayed at all the resorts except VDH, but we are fine staying at any of them, and in fact, actively select SSR over competing open properties at 7 months due to the recent renovation and the points value (and Gideon’s Bakehouse).

However, we are all different and if you have to stay at a certain property, then yes, you will need to buy there. However, if you are somewhat agnostic like we are, points are points and I would go for the best deal.

 

[intamin]

I think this is very individually dependent. We own at 4 resorts (SSR, BLT, VGF, and PVB), but really only regularly use the 11 month window at one of them (BLT at Labor Day for MNSSHP).

Maybe it’s because we’ve owned for a decent amount of time and stayed at all the resorts except VDH, but we are fine staying at any of them, and in fact, actively select SSR over competing open properties at 7 months due to the recent renovation and the points value (and Gideon’s Bakehouse).

However, we are all different and if you have to stay at a certain property, then yes, you will need to buy there. However, if you are somewhat agnostic like we are, points are points and I would go for the best deal.

Well yeah that goes without saying if you don’t care where you stay then by all means buy the cheapest points possible. Get the best value you can. That’s why I said in the first part of my comment like not even the most hard to book resorts like BW/BC will require it at all times but if you do care where you stay and particularly if the times you want to go are higher in demand then it is better to own there and if necessary switch to SSR than trying to go in the opposite direction at 7 months. For me it’s more of a personal thing that if I’m paying that much in dues where over 2/3 of the cost of the contract comes from that, I’d rather just own where I’m more happy to stay at.

I’ve definitely noticed a good chunk of my trips, SSR points would’ve worked just fine like when I stayed at BRV, or recently at BLT/Jambo value during Christmas that I booked under 7 months with my resale points. On the other hand though, I am glad we own at RIV because we used that to book for Moonlight Magic back in September and took the skyliner back from HS which definitely would’ve been gone by the 7 month mark. Point being, we don’t consistently use the 11 month window but it’s definitely nice to have whenever we want at multiple resorts. How much that matters to each person is clearly very subjective.

I love SSR, nothing wrong with it at all. But I noticed I don’t book it unless I don’t have a choice and have yet to stay there on my own points (have stayed with cash previously and on another family members points). With the changes DVC keeps implementing I find peace in knowing I can book my home resorts until expiration no matter how many new resorts open up or how many points they add to the system. Again, may not be worth it for some, but for us it was.

 

[tidefan]

Well yeah that goes without saying if you don’t care where you stay then by all means buy the cheapest points possible. Get the best value you can. That’s why I said in the first part of my comment like not even the most hard to book resorts like BW/BC will require it at all times but if you do care where you stay and particularly if the times you want to go are higher in demand then it is better to own there and if necessary switch to SSR than trying to go in the opposite direction at 7 months. For me it’s more of a personal thing that if I’m paying that much in dues where over 2/3 of the cost of the contract comes from that, I’d rather just own where I’m more happy to stay at.

I love SSR, nothing wrong with it at all. But I noticed I don’t book it unless I don’t have a choice and have yet to stay there on my own points.

100%. I think we are on the same wavelength. I’m just saying that some of us out here, as strange as it may seem, have found ourselves actually happier at SSR.

We actually selected an SSR studio over many other available options for May, including AKV, BLT, BWV, CCV (which I was surprised had a studio at 7 months), BRV, RIV, VGF BPK (which I have zero desire to stay in), PVB, or OKW. The point friendly charts are a good bit of it, as are the renovated rooms. Also, being within walking distance to Gideon’s doesn’t hurt either (man, it makes the Virtual Queue easier!)

BWV wasn’t too much off the SSR points, but we stayed at BWV once, but as much as we like to use the car, we found that it was very inconvenient to do.

We came down between SSR and BLT, and we will be at BLT in Aug/Sept, so chose SSR.

There’s no wrong answer, just depends on the person.

 

[intamin]

100%. I think we are on the same wavelength. I’m just saying that some of us out here, as strange as it may seem, have found ourselves actually happier at SSR.

We actually selected an SSR studio over many other available options for May, including AKV, BLT, BWV, CCV (which I was surprised had a studio at 7 months), BRV, RIV, VGF BPK (which I have zero desire to stay in), PVB, or OKW. The point friendly charts are a good bit of it, as are the renovated rooms. Also, being within walking distance to Gideon’s doesn’t hurt either (man, it makes the Virtual Queue easier!)

BWV wasn’t too much off the SSR points, but we stayed at BWV once, but as much as we like to use the car, we found that it was very inconvenient to do.

We came down between SSR and BLT, and we will be at BLT in Aug/Sept, so chose SSR.

There’s no wrong answer, just depends on the person.

We love Congress Park and pretty much refuse to stay anywhere else at SSR because of the walking distance to DS. Our favorite thing used to be taking the bus to DS after a park day and picking up Amorette’s and walking back to the room. We were gifted an 8 night stay in a 1BR and have pretty much been hooked on WDW since.

I was pleasantly surprised by BLT. I’m a sucker for tower/hotel style resorts because we’re lazy. But god that proximity to MK and the monorail access to Poly and VGF was

 

[Brian Noble]

some of us out here, as strange as it may seem, have found ourselves actually happier at SSR.

SSR has really grown on me. When it was first built, it had that "McMansions on a moonscape" vibe. But, as the landscaping has grown in it's become a much nicer spot. I suspect I also had to stay at it once as well to really "get it" because the feeling it invokes is subtle. Many of the other DVC resorts hit you over the head with "Hey! This is a Thing!" Even OKW is contsantly whispering "island time" but it's a loud get-your-attention whisper.

SSR, in contrast, seems to give me "quietly sophisticated," and I find it relaxing. It has some of the best walking paths outside of the Fort Wilderness area, and unlike OKW has the advantage that the buildings are usually between the paths and the internal roads of the resort. The Paddock pool area improvements also made a big difference, and I think the new room design is great.

I'm a different-drummer sort of DVC guest in lots of ways. I want my resort to be a respite from the hustle and bustle of the theme parks. So while I have really enjoyed my BCV, BWV, and BLT stays, they don't quite hit that particular note, tough the upper-floor BLT lake views in the central-arm of the inner C come pretty close. In contrast I get the sense that most other guests want to be as close to one of the parks as possible, which ends up being a big mark against SSR, OKW, and AKV.

Taking that a step further, SSR might be the ideal "no parks" trip. My last visit was two weeks, but during the period when WDW was not selling Annual Passes. So I bought a 10 day PHP and threw on a Sea World pass, but spent quite a few days mostly hanging out at the resort, ducking over to Disney Springs for dinner.