I don't get Pete's complaints about lack of AP incentives

[mjp12831]

It depends on the team. Here in Toronto, where the Leafs are king, since there's such a long waiting list for season tickets, no incentives are given. For the Bluejays, who are a rebuilding (again), I bought a 10 pack of tickets, got about a 10% discount on the tickets, 2 NFL tickets (at about $150 each), a meet and greet with the players, and a bunch of food coupons.

Right on here - when you are King (WDW is the Leafs in your analogy) you dont need to toss discounts out there randomly because you already have brand loyalty. When you're not (Jays, Bills are WDL or Disney Paris), you offer more incentives for the regular supporters to keep them and build loyalty.

Someone will then say to the above that WDW/Leafs are vulnerable to losing their customers to the competition who might come in and offer a better deal. Sure, but if they are business wise and have their eye on the ball, they will spot any slips in support and make adjustments to correct those. This is the point when you might see WDW offer more discounts - to AP holders or to the general public. Being the king (WDW/Leafs) also means that you have built up a ton of brand recognition and brand loyalty, so you are far less likely to lose that loyalty just because a newer competitor is giving you a 10% food discount, so why compete with that?

The issue in this thread is that AP holders are feeling "undervalued" by WDW. I am sure if WDW saw the number of AP drop significantly AND they felt that this was an important segment of their business that they would then offer more incentives to AP holders. They arent just going to do it to make everyone feel better though.

 

[Disney Dad Canada]

The issue in this thread is that AP holders are feeling "undervalued" by WDW. I am sure if WDW saw the number of AP drop significantly AND they felt that this was an important segment of their business that they would then offer more incentives to AP holders. They arent just going to do it to make everyone feel better though.

If you think that AP owners complain about being taken for granted, try reading some of the DVC threads. (Note: I'm an AP owner AND DVC member).

The facts remain that Disney is run by business people that need to answer to their shareholders, not necessarily their customers. Not a nice fact, but a fact none the less. Until enough customers complain with their wallets and spend their money elsewhere, Disney will not worry about them. Unfortunately, there are more than enough people to fill in the gaps if a few people don't visit the parks as protest.

 

[raidermatt]

That's not arrogance, its due to the fairly unique nature of the product. It is difficult to compare to other companies that offer loyalty schemes - if Marriot don't offer a loyalty scheme then even its "loyal" customers are fairly happy to switch to a competitor that does, e.g Hilton. The same with airlines. This is not the case with Disney - at least not for AP holders (aka "fans") - despite their protests Disney fans will not suddenly start going to Universal or Six Flags, because of their emotional attachment to Disney. The nearest analogy I can think of is fans of a certain sports team who will not usually switch to supporting a local rival team because their team does not offer sufficient financial incentives!

Airlines, hotels or indeed SeaWorld / Universal do not have this sort of hold over its loyal customer base

A common misconception is to look at Six Flags and Universal as being Disney's primary competition. They are competition to be sure, but WDW is a vacation destination first and foremost. Six Flags isn't that at all, and Universal only operates on the fringe of that category. WDW's primary competition is other vacation destinations, primarily family destinations. National Parks, Hawaii, the Caribbean, Europe, Washington DC, etc.

True, WDW guards against losing a day or two of your trip to Universal, but moreso they must guard against a family moving it's entire vacation to somewhere else.

The analogy to a sports team isn't perfect, but there is some truth to it. Disney does have a fan base that is pretty dedicated. But all a sports team usually needs to do to keep fans in the seats is to win. Customer service isn't a primary driver (though it can make a difference in lean times). With WDW however, customer service IS a primary driver. And loyalty programs are a contributing factor to how customers view the service they are getting and whether they are appreciated.

Can't say that is right or wrong, that's just the way it is.

So with all that in mind, I agree with Pete that Disney does fall short in this area. I truly believe they could improve their business by doing a little more for the most loyal customers, as opposed to taking them for granted and assuming they will never leave.

There's plenty of other factors that go into Disney's business model of course, this is just how I view this particular piece of it.

 

[FireDancer]

Right on here - when you are King (WDW is the Leafs in your analogy) you dont need to toss discounts out there randomly because you already have brand loyalty. When you're not (Jays, Bills are WDL or Disney Paris), you offer more incentives for the regular supporters to keep them and build loyalty.

Someone will then say to the above that WDW/Leafs are vulnerable to losing their customers to the competition who might come in and offer a better deal. Sure, but if they are business wise and have their eye on the ball, they will spot any slips in support and make adjustments to correct those. This is the point when you might see WDW offer more discounts - to AP holders or to the general public. Being the king (WDW/Leafs) also means that you have built up a ton of brand recognition and brand loyalty, so you are far less likely to lose that loyalty just because a newer competitor is giving you a 10% food discount, so why compete with that?

The issue in this thread is that AP holders are feeling "undervalued" by WDW. I am sure if WDW saw the number of AP drop significantly AND they felt that this was an important segment of their business that they would then offer more incentives to AP holders. They arent just going to do it to make everyone feel better though.

I think that Disney should institute a loyalty program not because they need to but because it would benefit them.

What I mean is that I don't feel that Disney really looses much by not offering a loyalty program. Most AP holders are pretty loyal and I don't think the number of them leaving is very large. I also don't think that they are concerned about loosing them long term. Yes, they might cut out a visit here or there to go to another destination but they will be back.

That being said, they do have something to gain by offering something. Many times loyalty programs offer much more perceived then actual value. Lets say the offer is that for every 10 resort stays of 3 nights or more you get a 50% discount on you next stay of up to 5 nights. This isn't the way I would work it but for the sake of this not being an encyclopedia lets use it as a simple example.

Taken on face value this looks like Disney looses 50% of their resort revenue on your 11th stay, but that is too simplistic. First, I feel that people would accelerate their trip frequency because of the carrot that is there after their 10th stay. This means that they might come down one more time this year for example. It also has a built in guarantee of 3 night stays. If I was going to come down for 2 nights I now have an incentive to stay a 3rd.

It is much more complicated then this of course but the best analogy is to look at a buy one get one 50% off sale. Many people look at it as 50% of the revenue on the second item being lost and for those few people that intended to buy 2 of them it is. The majority of people though only intended on buying one so it is actually 50% revenue gained.

You are correct OP, Disney doesn't have to do any loyalty program because I don't think the down side of not offering one is great. The opportunity cost of not offering one though I do feel is significant enough to make it worth their while to do it, not to maintain revenue but to increase it.

Hopefully that makes sense, I'm not really sure how to put it into writing in anything less then a multi page economic analysis and even I would be put to sleep by it. Too often Disney (and to be fair many corporations) don't look beyond the face of these kinds of things.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

I respectfully beg to differ that Disney is the destination for most everyone. As US steps up their game with the promotional blitz that is currently beginning with WWoHP, more families will plan Univeral trips with WDW being the "side" attraction. I have already seen this on the Free Dining board where many people waiting for FD have actually gone ahead and booked more economically friendly accommodations with the deals being offered at US or offsite. My guess is that as this shift occurs Disney will go back to offering better deals. It is just unfortunate that in the past year and a half especially Disney has started tying length of stay ticket purchases to their discounts, thereby purposely leaving out Passholders. There is rarely a non AP guest these days that comes to Disney without a discount or incentive, be it a gift card, percentage off, buy 4/get 7, etc. The business model/plan that they publicly came out with that stated "less discounts" in the future is not viable long term with the competitive atmosphere in Orlando. Off site accommodations with much more room going for much less $$ will lure the guests away and make it easier for them to visit Disney for a fragment of their stay. Perhaps Disney feels Passholders are already lured, why continue to work on luring them? But this is not good long term, people will let their APs expire as a pp mentioned and space their vacations out more. I for one am not so Disney-loyal that I would stay despite how I am treated. As I stated before only the 15 for 12 made me renew this year.

There needs to be company-wide discounts that come with APs. Disney Store, DLR, DCL, etc 5 or 10 percent off or early booking-any kind of incentive that feels like a thank you. When I find out when I go to pay for my Plaza Inn character meal that they do not recognize WDW AP for discount but do I have a AAA card??? Huh? Something's just not right!

 

[Sphyrna]

I think that Disney should institute a loyalty program not because they need to but because it would benefit them.

What I mean is that I don't feel that Disney really looses much by not offering a loyalty program. Most AP holders are pretty loyal and I don't think the number of them leaving is very large. I also don't think that they are concerned about loosing them long term. Yes, they might cut out a visit here or there to go to another destination but they will be back.

That being said, they do have something to gain by offering something. Many times loyalty programs offer much more perceived then actual value. Lets say the offer is that for every 10 resort stays of 3 nights or more you get a 50% discount on you next stay of up to 5 nights. This isn't the way I would work it but for the sake of this not being an encyclopedia lets use it as a simple example.

Taken on face value this looks like Disney looses 50% of their resort revenue on your 11th stay, but that is too simplistic. First, I feel that people would accelerate their trip frequency because of the carrot that is there after their 10th stay. This means that they might come down one more time this year for example. It also has a built in guarantee of 3 night stays. If I was going to come down for 2 nights I now have an incentive to stay a 3rd.

It is much more complicated then this of course but the best analogy is to look at a buy one get one 50% off sale. Many people look at it as 50% of the revenue on the second item being lost and for those few people that intended to buy 2 of them it is. The majority of people though only intended on buying one so it is actually 50% revenue gained.

You are correct OP, Disney doesn't have to do any loyalty program because I don't think the down side of offering one is great. The opportunity cost of not offering one though I do feel is significant enough to make it worth their while to do it, not to maintain revenue but to increase it.

Hopefully that makes sense, I'm not really sure how to put it into writing in anything less then a multi page economic analysis and even I would be put to sleep by it. Too often Disney (and to be fair many corporations) don't look beyond the face of these kinds of things.

Very well said!

 

[VeroBeach]

When I went on a trip in December, I didn't get a room discount from my AP, had to use my AAA card to get one. I don't understand why their isn't always an AP room discount, if at any time you can just say you have AAA and they give you a discount

When I find out when I go to pay for my Plaza Inn character meal that they do not recognize WDW AP for discount but do I have a AAA card??? Huh? Something's just not right!

You can't compare AAA vs AP - the number of members is drastically different - by orders of magnitude.

According to http://www.numberof.net/number-of-aaa-members/ there are 50 million AAA members in the United States and Canada.

AAA Travel is the largest seller of Disney vacations in the US - this is why they are able to negotiate their own contract with Disney to offer AAA room discounts, based on availability.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

You can't compare AAA vs AP - the number of members is drastically different - by orders of magnitude.

According to http://www.numberof.net/number-of-aaa-members/ there are 50 million AAA members in the United States and Canada.

AAA Travel is the largest seller of Disney vacations in the US - this is why they are able to negotiate their own contract with Disney to offer AAA room discounts, based on availability.

If they can do it for AAA, they can do it for passholders!

 

[Tweevil]

I would love to see an AP loyalty program. I have a PAP for the first time and I am going not once but three times this year and that's a lot considering how far I travel. I appreciate all of the discounts and stuff but maybe a perk here and there would be nice too.

 

[Tovin]

You guys are pass holders for the wrong Disney parks! Disneyland has amazing pass holder benefits!

And you should see the problems it causes!!!! Disneyland is crazy different than the Florida parks, true - but with the AP benefits come new headaches that I don't think they want to be dealing with in Florida. It's already the biggest headache here in So Cal!