I come in peace- enlighten me...

[asmit4]

I posted this on another board in reaction to below....I come in peace, I am 100% for the rights of gay and lesbian couples to adopt, to marry, transgendered people to receive hormones necessary, help necessary etc...
I am writing this to get your perspective, to see if maybe I am missing something....what do you think???
Like I said below- I am very liberal but even I can see the harm in this...


Originally Posted by aubriee
Just found this:

www.traditionalvalues.org/modules.php?sid=3328

I am as liberal as they come...I am one of the most liberal democrats you will ever meet....but seriously??? seriously????

The issue I have with this as written in RED in the article:
Sexual predators can now enter women’s restrooms and claim they have a sexual identity different from their birth sex.

How are they going to stop grown men from haunting women's bathrooms? I can see it now, grown men will line up at bathrooms around the city just to get a peak into women's stalls....now they can't be escorted out, they can't be arrested....Maybe I am over reacting...I dunno....maybe it's my Americanized nature...this works in Europe and it doesn't seem to be an issue....

Why do you need a law like this. I've been in line with recognizable cross dressers before...a male, dressed as a female uses the female bathroom...I didn't see this as an issue..they often have feminine features due to hormone therapy. Is a law necessary...maybe I just don't know the troubles transgendered people go through in life...

Maybe someone can enlighten me on this. I will add in on this post that I have frequented MANY if not MOST of the gay/lesbian bars in Chicago throughout the years. I have shared bathrooms with lots of people...never had any issues. A bar, is a bar though...what about a 5yo little girl peeing, and having a grown man that 'claims' he is of another gender hanging out....
Maybe this isn't a big deal at all....maybe no crazy pedophiles will try to use this law to their advantage...

 

[ConcKahuna]

If a person is transgendered or is in full drag, that's one thing. If it's just someone walking into a restroom and saying they identify as the opposite sex, that's something totally different to me. It should be fairly easy to tell who is who in most cases.

 

[asmit4]

If a person is transgendered or is in full drag, that's one thing. If it's just someone walking into a restroom and saying they identify as the opposite sex, that's something totally different to me. It should be fairly easy to tell who is who in most cases.

Valid point- I just hope that the law is able to distinguish. I've heard of crazy cases regarding a host of other issues where people use the words of a law for their own benefit, instead of understanding it for what the real value/meaning is in the law.

 

[tomboy_m]

It sure would decrease the lines in the women's rooms.. we could just pop on over to the men's room and save 15 minutes.

Most women's rooms have stalls with doors which makes it hard to do very much peeking.

As for young children being preyed upon... I would not trust my DD 4 to be in either a men's or women's public restroom without me right there. Although the statistics say that men are more likely to offend then women...there are still female offenders. I believe in protecting her until she can protect herself.

I really don't think the law will have much of an impact in places like malls.. could be more scarey to be in an isolated highway rest stop.. but heck if someone is going to attack I don't think they worry much about it being legal to enter the bathroom they are going in to.

If this makes it easier for those with gender identity issues I am all for it.

 

[vassalofodin]

That is kinda weird when you think about the nitty-gritty details...but I think it'll almost always be used for the proper purposes.

Sexual predators have lots of ways to put up their prey, so maybe a few will try and play transsexual--but I doubt that many or even 'some' will. There are a lot of perverts in the world, but I don't think many predators would be able to just waltz into a bathroom and stalk someone, doesn't really seem to be the kind of methods they tend to use.

 

[tig82174]

Actually I'd encourage anyone interested in this issue to contact the Sylvia Rivera Law Project in NYC (or google their website) which is a trans legal activism organization. They have done a great deal of education, advocacy, and legal work around bathroom access.

The reality is that in many jurasdictions trans people, even when trying their hardest to conform to comfortable gendered standards (i.e. a MtF trans person who presents and lives as woman and tries to enter a women's restroom) are often mistreated, harassed, and in some cases even arrested. In these cases a law absolutely IS necessary...because even in places like NYC where there isn't apparently a part of the penal code that makes it illegal to use the "wrong" bathroom, misinformed or bigoted police officers will harass and arrest trans people in restrooms. NON-gendered bathrooms are clearly one possible solution to this problem.

I think it's also important to address two other points from the original post:

1.) Multi-gendered bathrooms OR even a single sex bathroom where an opposite sex individual happens to be (like a man in a woman's restroom) don't actually increase incidence of sexual violence. This is a long held myth. (the Sylvia Rivera Law Project has a lot of info about this).

and

2.) In fact, if women's restrooms are actually a target for sexually violent men, then the gendering of bathrooms at ALL makes their efforts easier because they can easily stalk restrooms that are clearly marked as being for women. It's interesting, but I think the issue of mixed-gender or trans-friendly bathrooms has OFTEN been framed as one of physical safety....when in fact that isn't the issue at all....it's just the easiest one to get people worked up about.

 

[Disney_Villain]

I would take that article with a few grains of salt . . . just look at the source it came from "www.traditionalvalues.org". Why not just read up more at the website for "Focus on the Family" and other such anti-gay sites?

The problem with sites like these is that like focusing on things that are not really a problem. They want to stir up trouble.

While I am not transgender, I have known a few as friends or co-workers over the years - and I can tell you that in their own words "we go out of our way to use unisex washrooms".

 

[asmit4]

I'm enlightened! All great points!

I agree that the website is not one I would ever frequent and is a bit skewed all around to say the least. Someone posted it on another DIS forum regarding another bathroom topic and my gut said it could pose lots of issues regarding safety.

I think this makes good sense and perhaps other states will get on board in the years to come. Anything that can be done to reduce discrimination of all kinds-I'm all for.

 

[ConcKahuna]

I'm enlightened! All great points!

I agree that the website is not one I would ever frequent and is a bit skewed all around to say the least. Someone posted it on another DIS forum regarding another bathroom topic and my gut said it could pose lots of issues regarding safety.

I think this makes good sense and perhaps other states will get on board in the years to come. Anything that can be done to reduce discrimination of all kinds-I'm all for.

Are you talking about the Larry Craig thread? That thread was cracking me up but I lost track of it.

 

[mykidsintow]

Hmm.... I just want more companion restrooms! Power chair and a stroller... or double stroller... or even just a power wheelchair. We need more space!

I don't think someone dressed or looking as a male should be in the womens restroom. However, it doesn't really creep me out. I mean we have stalls. I think if I saw their eyeballs peeping in I may have to poke it out with a key...

Seriously I have been in many a mens restroom (tho I have always had someone stand guard and yell in to make sure its empty first). I did this on the way home from FL.... 5 ppl in womens line, mens empty... PULEEZE. In I went.. and when I was done in another woman went (it was a single private bath).

I think if men would just learn to aim (and yes I know its not ALL men) they could make a big ole room and let us all go in with stalls. I have no big problem with it. We have to be careful of our children. Thinking only women in the restroom doesn't mean you can take less caution...

Just another persective..

 

[TuckandStuiesMom]

Beth -- you are so right! I can think of several times that I have run off of a plane in an unfamiliar airport, and hit the nearest bathroom (in close to a panic) only to notice too late, it was the wrong one.

No hurt, no foul is what I think.

 

[asmit4]

There is a thread on the strategies board I think. Maybe families. It has perhaps close to 200 posts by now. People going on and on about little girls in the mens bathroom and little boys in the mens bathroom. At what age should they not be allowed? 8, 10? 12? younger? Everyone was also going on tangents like 'would you let your child crawl on the floor of the bathroom to help an old lady? Cleanliness....the article I posted was one of those tangents. I've stopped reading the thread b/c it's gotten so and crazy. People complaining about OCD, and then complaining about the dictionary description for OCD and on and on and on.

 

[dancingdaniturnip]

I don't care if there are women who have extra equipment in the women's restroom.

I don't even care if they peek for that matter. I've had plenty of dr.s and nurses see all that already.

Now, if they touch unwelcomely, that's against the law no matter what gender identity you are.

 

[mykidsintow]

I don't care if there are women who have extra equipment in the women's restroom.

I don't even care if they peek for that matter. I've had plenty of dr.s and nurses see all that already.

Now, if they touch unwelcomely, that's against the law no matter what gender identity you are.

I agree! Frankly I don't think its anyones business. Its my child and my right to decide. My son won't be going in the mens alone until he is mature enough to handle himself and large enough to semi-protect himself. If someone doesn't like it, too bad. I won't put my children at risk because someone who is OCD, yet dislikes the definition, doesn't approve. Stay home and pee.... Or bring a cup and do it in the car (yes, I have done this too).

I suspect my daughter will need help from dad, long after the "age and time" most appove of. Tough. We have bigger fish to fry than pleasing others.

Perhaps dad should take daughter into the womens... at least we have stalls and she won't be stuck looking at packages on the way to the potty. I am sure all the ladies would approve of that.

As I said we need more companion restrooms....

 

[ConcKahuna]

This thread just reminded me of a time when DP walked into the womens RR at Wal-Mart. He came out a few minutes later laughing because he had run into a woman on the way out, and they had joked about how he ran in and had to go so bad he didnt know it was the wrong one until it was too late

 

[npmommie]

I don't care if there are women who have extra equipment in the women's restroom.

I don't even care if they peek for that matter. I've had plenty of dr.s and nurses see all that already.

Now, if they touch unwelcomely, that's against the law no matter what gender identity you are.

I agree! Frankly I don't think its anyones business. Its my child and my right to decide. My son won't be going in the mens alone until he is mature enough to handle himself and large enough to semi-protect himself. If someone doesn't like it, too bad. I won't put my children at risk because someone who is OCD, yet dislikes the definition, doesn't approve. Stay home and pee.... Or bring a cup and do it in the car (yes, I have done this too).

I suspect my daughter will need help from dad, long after the "age and time" most appove of. Tough. We have bigger fish to fry than pleasing others.

Perhaps dad should take daughter into the womens... at least we have stalls and she won't be stuck looking at packages on the way to the potty. I am sure all the ladies would approve of that.

As I said we need more companion restrooms....

I totally agree beth, i don't plan to let my kids go in alone for a long long time, and if someone has a prob with a little boy in the ladies room tuff cookies.
i have been known to go in the men's room myself when the ladies line is out the door and no one in the men's room!!

 

[rosiep]

I agree! Frankly I don't think its anyones business. Its my child and my right to decide. My son won't be going in the mens alone until he is mature enough to handle himself and large enough to semi-protect himself. If someone doesn't like it, too bad. I won't put my children at risk because someone who is OCD, yet dislikes the definition, doesn't approve. Stay home and pee.... Or bring a cup and do it in the car (yes, I have done this too).

I suspect my daughter will need help from dad, long after the "age and time" most appove of. Tough. We have bigger fish to fry than pleasing others.

Perhaps dad should take daughter into the womens... at least we have stalls and she won't be stuck looking at packages on the way to the potty. I am sure all the ladies would approve of that.

As I said we need more companion restrooms....

I love your attitude!

As for the original article: My daughter is friends with many transgendered people. She works hard on campus to be an advocate for these people...It is a tough transition made all the more tougher by other peoples fear and misunderstanding.

 

[PghLybrt]

I think it would just help out across the board. I have told my story on here many times about my girlfriend being attacked by a father on her way out of a ladies room at target. Gender neutral bathrooms would avoid all confusion.

 

[padalyn]

I was in Spain last summer - and after a LONG bus then train ride then tram ride my bladder had hit critical mass. I ran into the nearest facility. I am not sure who was more suprised - all the spanish men who then tried to be discreate (spelling?) or me who headed for the first stall available. aaaaahhhhh. Then more laughter as I washed my hands and left. No one objected, just laughed really hard (as did I!)

As far as kids in the bathrooms - no issue. Not all kids mature at the same rate. Parents have to make the decision for their kids as to when it is safe and when the child is ready to handle the process alone.

I will say I don't like when kids are climbing around on the floor of the bathroom. I have had more than one little boy pop his head under while I am taking care of rather personal business. I prefer MY privacy whilst in the middle of this.

one one occosion I spoke rather harshly to the mother asking her to return her child to her own stall. I got a nasty reply about kids being kids. I then explained the some bodily functions do not require a witness and she will now have to explain the issue of female cycles to her 5 year old. She got really nasty at that point. I ignored her finsihed my business and walked out.

I hope she had a really hard time explaining it all to her son