I’m so curious. Is current dissatisfaction with Disney affecting DVC sales?

[Royal Consort]

Things change so much in a year. I remember posting about a year ago about how we purchased more contracts during covid when you mentioned downsizing. We found dvc a safe haven at that time. But I think we may be joining you and your family now. Here’s why:

1) Disney the corporation has succeeded in destroying the Disney vibe. Their culture change obviously influenced many employees to leave/ not return. In our experience, the majority of their “new” employees are phoning it in or worse. There seems to be a cloud of gloom at Disney. Never experienced this at Disney before and it changes everything.

3) Nothing seems to make sense any more at Disney, and it’s gotten overly bureaucratic. There is a “government” feel to going to Disney now. We are rational, skeptical people and do not enjoy being in non sequitor environments. (ie why are some people allowed to buy annual passes? Why isn’t Disney building another park like universal if there is so much demand? Why park reservations when universal doesn’t have them? Why a four step process to get on a ride? Buy ticket, schedule park access, schedule genie, schedule lightening lane. No thanks.). I sometimes feel like I am in “no soup for you” settings at Disney now.

I've come back from a month long DVC trip starting in Aulani, 16 nights at WDW and then three at DL. WDW was unfortunately not the highlight. I have no issue with the CMs who I genuinely believe are doing there best within ''the system''. It's just that ''the system'' is so consumer unfriendly. I hadn't been back to WDW since 2019 and there's a stark contrast. Being at WDW felt like entering ''the machinery'' in which you must all conform to the parameters of the company and be churned through. People looked more stressed; kids were having bigger meltdowns; parents were having worse meltdowns; and there was a distinct lack of laughter. Heck, one of our severs had a meltdown with the table next to us, threw down her serviette and we didn't see her again. The guest has been forced to pay attention to the minutiae of their trip that they've lost the bigger picture: 'joy' and 'fun' has been compromised and in some cases abandoned completely.

Whilst being there it felt like I was having the trip the Disney company wanted me to have. I don't think I would like WDW if I was going for the first time now.

I didn't use genie+; I didn't use my phone. We rope dropped and got everything done and most days were out the park within 2-3 hours in the morning.

5). It’s just not as well run as it used to be. Poor operations and a lack of caring. And I don’t think it is because of covid, because Universal runs very smoothly. Universal has an upbeat positive vibe. I don’t know that we want to be so invested in a company where we no longer have faith in management.

The current Disney corporate environment doesn't give a rats about your vacation experience. You're replaceable. Doesn't matter. Churn them through, get every possible cent you can, upcharge for the lot and quality be damned. I recall Chapek saying recently that you get a uniquely Disney experience. I am not sure that's so much the case in WDW. It is in Tokyo, on DCL, and Disneyland.

5)Anyway, it is tough for us to come to terms with the idea that we will start selling some points soon, but we just don’t see another option at this point. I cannot believe we have done a complete reversal. But honestly, it is Disney that has changed, not us!

On the first day I got to WDW I added on at VGF quite enthusiastically. Seven days later I terminated the contract. I fully expected as a DVC member to weather the ''bad times'' as the parks have gone through this before. It will change again. I don't know how or when but I don't think the current consumer unfriendly policies are sustainable in an economic downturn. Maybe I'm wrong. All the basics are there at the parks. It just needs a new operating system.

Things changed when we returned to Disneyland. We felt a freedom and flexibility we didn't at WDW. Seeing characters randomly appear; families laughing and bonding; there's magic at Disneyland. I think my VGC contract is going to be the jewel in the crown. Southern Californians seem to hold the company to a higher standard.

Our WDW trip at the end of the year is being cut down to six nights instead of 14 and we are renting points out and sailing on DCL. Back to Disneyland Paris in 2023. Once Japan opens their borders fully, back to Tokyo Disney Resort. Magic is there in Disney, just not as much at their flagship property.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I've come back from a month long DVC trip

I'm sorry. I'm still cleaning up the coffee I spat out from reading this. 1 month!!!!

Also, completely agree with you regarding VGC and Disneyland. It's a true gem that will never be replicated and we love going several times a year, especially with our Believe Keys which I no longer will let it expire.

Our first trip to WDW was just last year for 2 weeks and it was pure magic for us, especially coming out of the pandemic in Hawaii. Of course not everything was back, but Genie+ hadn't started yet and I actually enjoyed the parks being on STBY for everything or scoring VQs where I could. And we had to endure wearing our masks everywhere in the middle of August! I don't know. I'm sure compared to old times, WDW is not the same. But as DVC members, I don't feel so pressured to try to do so much in the parks as opposed to just enjoy being in the atmosphere and using all the deluxe resort amenities. APs no longer being available is huge I admit. I hope they come back before our next trip in August 2023!

 

[john7994]

But as DVC members, I don't feel so pressured to try to do so much in the parks as opposed to just enjoy being in the atmosphere and using all the deluxe resort amenities. APs no longer being available is huge I admit. I hope they come back before our next trip in August 2023!

Although relatively new to the DVC fold, we have had two trips to WDW so far this year and two more planned, but I felt the same way - I didn't feel the urgency to only rely on the parks. Nonetheless, we are spending a small fortune on tickets, so I am with you - APs could not come back fast enough.

 

[Royal Consort]

I'm sorry. I'm still cleaning up the coffee I spat out from reading this. 1 month!!!!

We get one month of annual leave per year (plus we get an extra week over xmas where we work). Since we've not been able to go anywhere for two years it's rolled over and we have two months off this year. We're doing the whole thing again in October since there's so many points. Trips usually consist of a week at DL, 10 days at WDW, and a Disney cruise. We usually throw in an Asian resort over xmas. Life is tough.

 

[HIRyeDVC]

We get one month of annual leave per year (plus we get an extra week over xmas where we work). Since we've not been able to go anywhere for two years it's rolled over and we have two months off this year. We're doing the whole thing again in October since there's so many points. Trips usually consist of a week at DL, 10 days at WDW, and a Disney cruise. We usually throw in an Asian resort over xmas. Life is tough.

Can you adopt us? We'll gladly be your reverse-Hanai family from Hawaii

 

[TCRAIG]

I'm just gonna put these here together...

Right now, the parks are routinely filling up with advance reservations. That won't happen indefinitely. The fact that they're offering 25% hotel discounts for summer suggests reservations might be a little soft. But this isn't their first rodeo. Disney will use pricing to manage the crowds, discounting when necessary to maximize capacity.

DVC is a little different given the long term commitment. Resale listing volume appears to be up about 20% over the last 60 days. I've seen people openly comment about selling older points while buying VGF, so that undoubtedly plays some role. Others are probably selling due to Disney exhaustion, Disney politics and a variety of reasons. But none of that is new. There are always contacts available resale and these are common reasons why. Only time will tell if this is a the start of a long term uptick in sales volume, which might signal some widespread dissatisfaction with Disney or DVC.

This is us - selling 2 small contracts to help fund our recent VGF2 purchase…but I still love going…

 

[RoseGold]

I feel like Disney has a fiduciary duty to have a functioning website, like a bank. I deal with 4 baking websites and they are a breeze to use, always reliable, accurate, accessible. The DVC website actually scares me a bit.

You're right. The website is worse than embarrassing now, it's messing up the rules. I have several contracts and multiple membership numbers, and the website is unacceptable IMO.

This isn't an inconvenience to me anymore. It costs me time and reservations and it's a waste of everyone's time and money and dues. Honestly, I have no more patience for all the IT issues. I'm mad about it at this point, and I think the "glitch" I care about is targeting resale. If this were my bank, I'd get a new one.

 

[sheilafri]

Even if the numbers are bad, Disney isn't Netflix, where the streaming service is the whole company. Disney+ is a rounding error on their books, "Churn" is a problem for all the streaming services. It used to be such a pain to switch TV providers, now it's trivially easy. They are all scrambling to make their services more "sticky"

I’m a proud churner. The only thing that will make me stick is a low price along with great selection.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

I've come back from a month long DVC trip starting in Aulani, 16 nights at WDW and then three at DL. WDW was unfortunately not the highlight. I have no issue with the CMs who I genuinely believe are doing there best within ''the system''. It's just that ''the system'' is so consumer unfriendly. I hadn't been back to WDW since 2019 and there's a stark contrast. Being at WDW felt like entering ''the machinery'' in which you must all conform to the parameters of the company and be churned through. People looked more stressed; kids were having bigger meltdowns; parents were having worse meltdowns; and there was a distinct lack of laughter. Heck, one of our severs had a meltdown with the table next to us, threw down her serviette and we didn't see her again. The guest has been forced to pay attention to the minutiae of their trip that they've lost the bigger picture: 'joy' and 'fun' has been compromised and in some cases abandoned completely.

Whilst being there it felt like I was having the trip the Disney company wanted me to have. I don't think I would like WDW if I was going for the first time now.

I didn't use genie+; I didn't use my phone. We rope dropped and got everything done and most days were out the park within 2-3 hours in the morning.




The current Disney corporate environment doesn't give a rats about your vacation experience. You're replaceable. Doesn't matter. Churn them through, get every possible cent you can, upcharge for the lot and quality be damned. I recall Chapek saying recently that you get a uniquely Disney experience. I am not sure that's so much the case in WDW. It is in Tokyo, on DCL, and Disneyland.



On the first day I got to WDW I added on at VGF quite enthusiastically. Seven days later I terminated the contract. I fully expected as a DVC member to weather the ''bad times'' as the parks have gone through this before. It will change again. I don't know how or when but I don't think the current consumer unfriendly policies are sustainable in an economic downturn. Maybe I'm wrong. All the basics are there at the parks. It just needs a new operating system.

Things changed when we returned to Disneyland. We felt a freedom and flexibility we didn't at WDW. Seeing characters randomly appear; families laughing and bonding; there's magic at Disneyland. I think my VGC contract is going to be the jewel in the crown. Southern Californians seem to hold the company to a higher standard.

Our WDW trip at the end of the year is being cut down to six nights instead of 14 and we are renting points out and sailing on DCL. Back to Disneyland Paris in 2023. Once Japan opens their borders fully, back to Tokyo Disney Resort. Magic is there in Disney, just not as much at their flagship property.

Thanks for telling us about your experience. This is good to hear about DL. We have not been there since covid but are thinking of taking a 2 week trip that way in fall 2023. We’ve never been to Knott’s and want to hit that also. Unfortunately, we do not have a GC contract. Last time we traded points for Paradise Pier, which was surprisingly a great hotel experience. This time we may trade points for Disneyland Hotel to try something different. I don’t think we will even try to get GC— too much stress waitlisting.

But unfortunately, we live much closer to WDW than to DL. So that is our “home.” And DCL, which we love, is not an option for us right now because we have decided not to vaccinate our kids (they are fully vaccinated, just not for Covid). We are hoping cruise vaccine policies change, but we are not optimistic about that. International travel is complicated for us for the same reason. We will keep our direct contracts for now, but without access to an AP, we just don’t need so many points, even if they get rid of all the bureaucracy. Does Disney really expect people to go to WDW for four weeks a year and buy four sets of passes for the entire family? That’s outrageous. For our family of five that’s close to $15,000. It isn’t even the money per we, we would just feel like fools paying that much for park tickets. Nonsensical. As in why do some people get to purchase APs and others not? It seems like if there is an AP pause, it should be for everyone. Something is just not right with Disney management. They seem like their brains have been taken over by some outside entity and they are no longer responding to reason. It’s all very sci-fi. Life imitates art.

I strongly agree that Disney policies are unsustainable, especially in the current economic environment. It’s really the big elephant in the room. Things are difficult out here in the real world. We are lucky, but I think most people are starting to cut back as they feel the inflation crunch. We just got back from a trip, and the roads were not half as crowded as they usually are. We spent some time at the beach and at universal studios. There were people at both places, but it wasn’t as packed as it was a year ago. We never felt like things were too crowded. We stayed on dvc points and ate at a few restaurants on Disney property— Riviera quick service, Kidani’s Sanaa, Olivia’s. We did not have reservations for Sanaa or Olivia’s and they were walk in. The hotels seemed full, but maybe people are not spending as much money? We love the quick service at Riviera, and this is the first time we’ve seen it empty. Memorial Day weekend too.

That’s crazy that you rescinded the GF contract. Your experience at WDW must have been shocking. I hope you gave them some feedback. We have been giving feedback. Mostly it is ignored. But we did have one hotel manager who told us that he many Disney employees who are still around are very unhappy and just trying to hold on, hoping for a sea change.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

You're right. The website is worse than embarrassing now, it's messing up the rules. I have several contracts and multiple membership numbers, and the website is unacceptable IMO.

This isn't an inconvenience to me anymore. It costs me time and reservations and it's a waste of everyone's time and money and dues. Honestly, I have no more patience for all the IT issues. I'm mad about it at this point, and I think the "glitch" I care about is targeting resale. If this were my bank, I'd get a new one.

Forgot to put post in reply! Here it is.

We had an experience last week that pushed us over the edge. We were staying at wdw for three nights (going to Universal). We had two nights at the same hotel and were trying to switch the third night so we would not have to move. This is so tedious that I feel silly and exhausted going over it! For some wizard of Oz reason, we can borrow from three of our dvc resale contracts. The other resale contracts have to be borrowed from by a phone agent. Of course we are almost fully borrow and only have those contracts left. So I tried a few times to call in when I saw the room pop up a couple of weeks ago. By the time I got a CM, short story, room gone. Finally, I called in and asked could I pre borrow the points I needed so that I could grab the room when it pops up. No. I call back and ask a different CM. Yes. So we leave for vacation. We went to the beach for a week first. I wasted time on that portion of the vacation on the dvc reservation system. The room popped up on four occasions and the system kept refusing to allow me to modify. I tried a different reservation in the future, just to see if there was something wrong with that reservation. That one would not allow me to modify too. I’d never had that problem before. So a few days in, we decided to cancel the dvc stay and just stay on site at universal. The system would not let me cancel. It just kept crashing. I tried on different devices. Same thing. Tried again the next day. Same thing. I just did not have the patience and did not want to waste the time calling in. I knew it was too complicated for chat. So we kept the reservations and moved. Now we have 3 preborrowed points. I think the system is actually getting worse, but I don’t know how that is possible.

 

[boxer]

Selling my BWV and told by several listing agents that they have never had this much inventory---due to various reasons. With that said I'm turning around and buying an Extended OKW for what I think is a great price, so I guess deals are there to be had.

I got into BWV for a very good price--so while I won't lose any money--I will take a hit from what I could have sold it for a few months ago.

 

[RoseGold]

I think the system is actually getting worse, but I don’t know how that is possible.

The website, ugh. I could handle ugly or slow or shows canceled reservations or the countdown is wrong. Heck, I could handle a Hunger Games release of inventory at 8AM, if it worked. But this isn't complaining to complain, it needs to work.

It's even more frustrating when you were soooo close to making it work and you jumped through all their hoops and followed all of their rules.

FIX THE WEBSITE BILL.

 

[Brian Noble]

I took a quick look at the sales statistics for Feb/Mar/Apr as reported at dvcnews.com. The total volume of points sold on the secondary market (private sale plus buy back via ROFR) across all WDW resorts was basically constant across those three months. The headline refers to "low volume" but it's only low in the sense that Disney closed more points via ROFR in April.

So if there's been a slow-down in sales volume, it's more recent than the sales that were recorded in April. I don't know off the top of my head what the lag time is between signed agreement and recorded sale. Maybe a month or two?

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I took a quick look at the sales statistics for Feb/Mar/Apr as reported at dvcnews.com. The total volume of points sold on the secondary market (private sale plus buy back via ROFR) across all WDW resorts was basically constant across those three months. The headline refers to "low volume" but it's only low in the sense that Disney closed more points via ROFR in April.

So if there's been a slow-down in sales volume, it's more recent than the sales that were recorded in April. I don't know off the top of my head what the lag time is between signed agreement and recorded sale. Maybe a month or two?

Also, dvcnews counts contracts ROFRd separately from total resale number so it's actually higher than indicated. I think it will take a few more months to discern actual trends but the prices have definitely stalled for most resorts minus the ones Disney are heavily ROFRing.

 

[Brian Noble]

dvcnews counts contracts ROFRd separately from total resale number

I think I added that back in when I did the comparison (assuming I understand DVC News's report)

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I think I added that back in when I did the comparison (assuming I understand DVC News's report)

dvcnews statistics are based on private sale deeds that were recorded with the OC Comptroller. When Disney buys them back, they don't get recorded as deeds, at least not until they resell them as direct points. Therefore, we haveto add the amount of points Disney is ROFRing to the number of points being sold in the private market.

 

[DonMacGregor]

dvcnews statistics are based on private sale deeds that were recorded with the OC Comptroller. When Disney buys them back, they don't get recorded as deeds, at least not until they resell them as direct points. Therefore, we haveto add the amount of points Disney is ROFRing to the number of points being sold in the private market.

What do they get recorded as? Some instrument has to be recorded, legally removing the current owner/seller from the title.

 

[Sandisw]

dvcnews statistics are based on private sale deeds that were recorded with the OC Comptroller. When Disney buys them back, they don't get recorded as deeds, at least not until they resell them as direct points. Therefore, we haveto add the amount of points Disney is ROFRing to the number of points being sold in the private market.

I just had my contract taken by DVD show up on the site and it recorded the warranty deed like it has in the past when I sold to an individual.

So, I am not sure how it is different?

 

[HIRyeDVC]

I just had my contract taken by DVD show up on the site and it recorded the warranty deed like it has in the past when I sold to an individual.

So, I am not sure how it is different?

You're right and I stand corrected! I was under the assumption that when Disney buys them back, it doesn't get recorded like they do between private individuals. I was looking too deep into it.