Huge problem w/water damage in basement --question about HO insr

[mrspaha]

If anyone knows about HO insurance and water damage, PLEASE advise me...

We had a huge problem this weekend with all the rain Friday night/Saturday morning, and most of the berber carpet down there is absolutely soaked. (No standing water). I didn't even realize something had happened until late Saturday night -- I was at my 85-year-old mother's house -- she had called me at 3:00 am Saturday morning because she had 2 feet of water. So, I was there all day trying to help her get a plumber to pump it out, etc etc etc. I didn't realize how extensive the soaking was until Sunday -- it's soaked wall to wall on over half the basement.

My husband is out of town dealing with a family matter, but even if he was here, physically we can't do anything ourselves. I know the wet carpet and padding is going to have to be ripped out, and everything professionally sanitized and treated for possible mold development.

Here's my problem -- our HO insurance will cover damage due to sump pump failure, but not seepage. I don't know for a fact if this was seepage or sump pump failure because we have drywall throughout, but I'm afraid possibly there was seepage involved since so much of the carpet is soaked. (We've never had seepage since we had it "Perma-sealed" in 2002.

I reported the claim to Travellers as if the sump pump failed to do the job, and I scheduled a professional specialty company that deals with water damage to come over and remove the carpet, etc etc. We're talking about THOUSANDS of dollars here.

I did have my plumber come over yesterday, and he put in a new sump pump. But I am worried sick that the insurance company might say that it was seepage, and not cover the loss. I know the work has to be done either way; it's already started to smell.

I'm on a wait list for the cleaning restoration company, and an adjustor hasn't even contacted me yet.

Any advice on what I should or should not do, or what I should or should not say??? Will the restoration company report to the insurance company if they discover that seepage was involved? And if they do, can I argue that it was a combination of both seepage and sump pump failure?

My husband will be the first to admit that he can't deal with money matters and insurance issues and things of this nature, so even if he was here, he really would want me to be the one to deal with the insurance company.

If anyone has any advice, PLEASE HELP ME! And thank you, in advance.

 

[Juliee8]

It varies depending on the insurance company, but chances are if your plumber said that your sump pump failed and replaced it they will go by that. There usually is a limit on this type of coverage, I know most people in my area only usually have $5,000 of coverage. I would definately check into the amount of coverage you have for this type of loss so you know.

 

[Juliet25]

We had a similar problem the second spring we moved into our current home. The rain was non-stop and water seeped in the side of our basement that was finished. The water was coming in under a subfloor in a closet area under the stairs and spreading out from there. Half the floor was soaked. It took awhile to troubleshoot the problem. Our sump pump was working, but the water wasn't making it to the drain tile, so it technically wasn't a failure of the sump pump.

Basically, we had to rip out the subfloor and some guys with jackhammers had to come and tear up the cement and redo the drain tile in the area where the water was coming from. We had to take away the dry wall from one wall as well as replace the carpet padding.

We ended up paying OOP. I called my insurance company but they seemed to think this was not going to be covered. The good news is that it didn't end up costing too much money (about $150 to get someone to remove the subfloor and $500 for the water proofing company). My Dad and BIL took care of the carpet and drywall. We'll probably need to replace the carpet when we go to sell, but for now it's salvagable.

So my advice is to first find out where the water is coming from. If your sump pump did give out, that's good news for you. If the water is coming from outside and not making it to the drain tile (our scenario), that may not be considered a failure of the sump pump. Likely the source of the leak is one spot. When we finally located the source, it was literally gushing in like a creek.

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. It's a pain, and I totally understand where you're coming from having a DH who leaves it to you to deal with. Hope it's a quick fix!

 

[msmayor]

This is one big reason why we're adding flood insurance to our policies.

We don't live in a flood zone, but my sump rider will only cover up to $10,000 in damages due to sump failure. If I get water in the basement through any other means, I'm screwed.

I'd rather pay for a flood policy than deal with the damages out of pocket.

 

[Melmac]

OP, sorry that you had to deal with this. Water in the basement is no fun (as I well know - we just had our basement sealed due to foundation seepage).

My cousin had 2 feet of water in her basement a month ago when the large storms went through MI and Southern Ontario. Since we live in Canada, I don't know if this works the same but all of the contractors working in her house had to be supplied from the insurance company, i.e. the restoration/cleaning company was contracted out by the insurance company, etc. If my cousin had called in her own plumber (like you did), the insurance company would have rejected her claim. This is so the insurance company can control the cost of the repairs that they would be paying for. I am sure this varies between companies but I would double-check that. I would also make sure I had paperwork from the plumber stating that your sump pump was faulty when they replaced it.

Do not throw anything away that got damaged until an adjuster comes out. They have to see everything and the condition it is in. If you have thrown it away, they will not compensate you for it.

My cousin's flood was due to stormwater sewer backup from the storm sewers - could this have been your case too? The water came up through her drain in the basement. This was covered as was sump pump failure but not seepage.

Good luck - in my cousin's case, it has been over a month and they are just starting to work on her basement. Stuff was thrown out just last week. I hope that all works out for you.

 

[HHSTigerFan]

If its seepage, doesn't Perma-Seal have a lifetime warranty on that?

 

[Gr8t Fan]

I so feel your pain! We're in Chicago and we got 8-10 inches of sewage in our basement when the municipal sewers backed up. We were pumping it out but it came in so fast and with such fury that the pump wasn't able to keep up. And after we opened a claim with Liberty Mutual we found out that we don't have sewer backup or flood insurance (they insisted that they had to open a claim in order to check coverage -- took all of the info on damages, etc. Can't wait to see our HO insurance go way UP! Not!). Everything not higher than 12 inches was ruined and DH and I have been cleaning and tossing things out nonstop since Saturday morning - 2 TVs, futon, videos, video games, photo albums, bookshelves, TV cabinets, toys, clothes -- the works!

Where is your sump pump in relation to the area where the carpet is soaked? Is it nearby or way across the basement? Is the area that isn't soaked carpeted or just tile or cement? Also, as someone else said, doesn't Permaseal guarantee their work? When you deal with the adjuster, be sure not to express your doubts. You reported the claim in good faith thinking it was sump pump failure. If they tell you it wasn't, that it's seepage and not covered, get it in writing so you can go to the Permaseal people.

Good luck to you and KUP!

 

[Darcy03231]

First, you really need to find out where the water is coming from. We had this happen to us. Because the ground was so saturated hydrostatic pressure was literally forcing the water up through the concrete basement floor. It wasn't a sump pump issue at all.

We ended up putting in an interior french drain system to keep it from happening again. Once water has found a way in, it will find it even easier the next time.

Ours wasn't covered by homeowers insurance so we payed OOP.

 

[ccgirl]

When we had water damage they told us not to do anything until they had the adjuster come out. If things have already been removed/replaced the adjuster really can't see the whole picture. Call your insurance company and find out if you should halt work until the adjuster comes out.

 

[mrspaha]

THANK YOU EVERYONE so much for your replies... This is the first moment I sat down at the computer since I first posted this morning.

Permaseals guarantee is that if it ever does leak, they'll come back and reseal it -- they won't pay for any damages as a result of seepage. And BTW, my mom who had 2 feet of water in her basement had spent several hundred dollars (I think about six or seven hundred at least) for Permaseals Backup system for her sump pump, and their backup system failed after her sump pump failed. They told her the same thing. They'll fix their backup system for free, but won't pay her damages.

Her insurance will pay (up to a certain limit) because hers is clearly sump pump failure, and not seepage. In my case, I don't know where the water came from, because I wasn't home all day, and didn't even know about it till later.

The sump pump is located in the laundry room in the back of the house (west side of the house. Next to the laundry room on the southeast side of the house is a "bedroom" that we basiclly just have the workout equipment and stuff (junk) storage, old furniture, etc. Next to that room (south side of house) is another "bedroom" that my son who lives away at college all year uses when he's home. I also have a coupla filing cabinets, desk, bookshelves, storage for xmas stuff, etc etc. Closets for each are between the two rooms. Every inch of those rooms/ closets and the open hall area are carpeted -- that's all soaked -- wall to wall. Then a huge cedar closet in the front of the house next to my son's room is soaked. The family room, which is basically the whole north half of the basement is mostly dry. There's a few damp areas, but not soaked like the rest of the house. The downstairs bathroom (which is kind of in the center of the house -- it butts against the laundry room close to where the sump pump is is dry. But that's the only room not carpeted except for the laundry room.

The restoration company I called was the one that the insurance company told me to call. I called the plumber on my own; insurance wouldn't pay for a new sump pump anyhow; I just wanted to get a new one right away.

I'm not sure what my insurance limit is -- even if it's "just" $5,000 that will help up tremendously. I do know they will pay for sump pump failure. I do know they will NOT pay for damage due to seepage.

I'm just afraid they'll say it was seepage and not pay anything.

Gotta back down there and keep sifting thru my mountains or stuff. Going thru my stockpiles of stuff I got on special deals -- anyone want 48 big rolls of wet charmin or 18 rolls of wet paper towels?

Thanks for your help everyone.

 

[Gr8t Fan]

I think the fact that the north part of the house is mostly dry bodes well for you. To me that means the water originated at the sump pump and spread out from there.

 

[kelleyrn2000]

My MIL's basement flooded a few years ago while she was on vacation. We went to check on her house and discovered several inches of water in her finished basement. The insurance refused to cover it (it was due to a water softener not functioning properly), and so we called a restoration company.

They told us to remove all the baseboards and they brought over huge fans to put under the carpeting and into the drywall and these ran for days. Eventually it was all dried up. It ended up being less than a thousand for clean up, and there is no smell or anything in the basement. The restoration company said that it had to be dried out within a certain period of time in order to save the carpet and drywall.

GL and I hope your insurance covers the damage. After MIL's episode, we now have two backup sump pumps, including a battery one, just in case!

 

[mrspaha]

I feel better now. I just assumed they would have to rip out the carpet and padding since it's soaked thru, and it does smell pretty bad! (not sanitation sewer smell, but just a very very unpleasant odor - I don't know how to describe it.

The lady at the restoration company said they usually do take it all out though, and then with the cost of replacement, I would it expect we're going to get hit pretty hard.

Does anyone know how long it takes mold to develope, like on the bottom of the drywall? Like I think I said before the wall is dry from what I see, but then I don't know what's behind the baseboards.

 

[msmayor]

Am I to assume from your post above that the carpet is soaked through and you have not yet lifted it?

Oh heavens, that needs work IMMEDIATELY. You need to get some type of shop vac or carpet cleaner that will suck water up and get as MUCH of the water out of that carpet that you can. You need air circulating throughout the room continuously to get things dry!

When my sump failed, my berber carpets were soaked through. My insurance company assured me that the adjuster did not need to see the carpets as is, and to immediately contact someone to get those carpets up.

Stanley Steemer came out with their giant vacs and sucked up a lot of water. The carpets were lifted, and they put some very big fans down there. Initially, we thought if we could dry the carpets they could be saved but alas they could not, and I got new.

The other thing to remember...if there is wet carpet sitting up against the baseboards/wallboard, it will create the perfect environment for mold to grow on the walls as the moisture will not be able to dry with wet carpet up against it.

 

[tinkarooni]

Claims Adjuster here, property specialist for years. First of all you do not necessarily have to dispose of the carpet. You must lift the carpet up immediately and pull out the pad, the pad must be disposed of. Than you need to dry out the carpeting while it is up off the floor, usually big fans, run dehumidifiers etc. Do not try to suck up the water from on top of the carpet, waste of time, will not solve the problem. I would take some photos, call you insurance tomorrow and tell them that you are going to start cleaning up to try and save some property. Your policy undoubtedly requires you to mitigate your damages so this is something you need to do anyway.

As far as if it's covered, you probably have a limit to the coverage for overflow of a sump pump. What do you think happened? Why did you have to replace the sump pump, did you get something from the plumber saying what was wrong with it?

 

[OrangeCountyCommuter]

I went through a flood last fall. (No basement, slab home and it was Seepage)

I did file a claim with my insurance company who wound up denying as it was not covered, but it did NOT change my premium at all. (I did add Flood Insurance. Probably means it will never happen again, but when it was pouring at home this week and I was out of town, I didn't panic )

My insurance company had me save "samples" of the carpet and pad. We also took photos of everything as we 'uncovered' (Trust me, mine had to go.....) So call and see what you can do, I would not keep that wet stuff down long because......that drywall SUCKS that mositure up, make sure someone does some real testing to make sure they have gotten ALL the mess. Better that then mold!

One of my neighbors went the "restoration" company method. I replaced the drywall. Ran into her last weekend. She's now replacing the drywall. MOLD! The Restoration company says "too bad" so basically it's a double payment.

 

[Disney_Freak56]

I so feel your pain! We're in Chicago and we got 8-10 inches of sewage in our basement when the municipal sewers backed up.

I realize you're not the original poster, but have you contacted the City about this? The worst they can tell you is that they can't do anything, but they might. Our city, apparently, knows they have issues with sewer issues, but won't offer to help or make it a well-known fact unless someone calls them on it.

I realize Chicago is a bigger city than Kansas City, but as I said, it may be worth a couple of phone calls. The worst they can tell you is no.