Huge Increase on Cruise Points for 2003

[vacationman]

Just checked into the points needed for the 7 day Western Caribbean during the Regular Season of 2003. For a Category 6, it is now 247 points for each of the first two occupants (up 10 points per person) 136 points for a teenager (up 19 points) and 110 points for a child under 12 (also up 19 points).

For my family the 2003 cruise now would cost 740 points. In 2002 the point total would have been 682.

After the increases from 2001, I was not expecting such another big increase and am disappointed.

 

[Dumbo]

740 points sold (rented) on the Rent/Trade board at the going rate of $10 a point equals $7400. Add to that the fact that the dues on 740 points is around $2525. Add the $75 booking fee and this cruise now costs $10,000.


Dumbo

 

[AnnaS]

Where are the new points posted at? We are planning on going in July 2003 - will be probably getting same two rooms on deck 6 if possible (cat.11). I have been also patiently waiting for them. Thanks.

 

[BWVDenise]

Thanks for posting this info. I've been waiting for it, too. This is a big disappointment

 

[Laurabearz]

Originally posted by Dumbo
740 points sold (rented) on the Rent/Trade board at the going rate of $10 a point equals $7400. Add to that the fact that the dues on 740 points is around $2525. Add the $75 booking fee and this cruise now costs $10,000.
Dumbo

I cant place my finger on it but I think something is wrong with this logic....

 

[AnnaS]

Better yet, July 5, 2003 - West. Carib. Cat. 11 (deck6 - not that deck matters) - # of points per adult? Also points for one child 10 yrs. old. Thanks a million - I can start some calculating since we plan on staying a few nights after the cruise at OKW - need to let the brain do some work. Thanks again.

 

[Horace Horsecollar]

I'm really not surprised.

At this time, the relative strengths of DCL and WDW on-site resort rooms have shifted. Cash DCL cruise prices remain high and cruises are selling out, while WDW on-site resort pricing is soft (CRO is offering larger discounts) and the vacancy factor is up. So the "buying power" of DVC points (converted to reservation points) is down.

Of course, as a DVC member who recently cruised as on points (3/23 Magic cruise) and would like to do again, this is bad news.

Two major new ships are calling Port Canaveral home in 2002 -- Carnival Cruise Line's 88,500-ton Carnival Pride, which began 7-night cruises from Port Canaveral in January of this year, and Holland America's 63,000-ton Zaandam, whch will begin seasonal service in November. These ships are in addition to the Carnival Cruise Line's 70,000-ton Fantasy.

Let's hope that for 2004, DVC will be able to negotiate more favorable point rates for DCL cruises, assuming that WDW on-site room demand recovers and that the increased competition and capacity at Port Canaveral will force DCL to keep prices in check -- and that DVC will once again welcome the opportunity to fill staterooms with DVC members.

 

[sgtpet]

I just called and it appears to vary but the increase is 5-10%. I don't see how this will decrease in the years to come. There is no indication that will occur. I guess we should cruise this year on points or as many suggest, not to use points for cruising. I wonder what the other WDW resorts will be for 2003.

 

[DVC-Don]

The 2003 cruise points are not posted at the official site as of this time.

 

[vacationman]

Since the same exact cruise I mentioned in the first post here would (right now) cost $4,335.08 according to the DCL Internet site (without vacation protection or ground transfers – just like when cruising w/points), I guess Disney values our points at $5.86. If you factor in an even cheaper price booking a cruise through a travel agent like Costco or Dreams Unlimited, that price per point goes down even further. Who negotiated this deal – Mickey Mouse?

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by Laurabearz


I cant place my finger on it but I think something is wrong with this logic....

Part of the problem is that by using the $10 pp and adding the yearly fees, you are essentially counting the maint fees twice. If one is renting, the rental fee should take into account the yearly fees. While I would could the points at $10 pp, I think some adjustment needs to be made when deciding whether to use points or cash. If one has enought points, I would think the renting and using cash has a risk and hassle factor. Therefore, I would use my points if I felt the value were at least $8 pp AND it's something I would pay cash for anyway.

 

[ripleysmom]

Which is why we are cruising Carnival next year. For a few hundred dollars more than what we would have paid to cruise DCL and use 357 points, we are cruising Carnival.

 

[Johnnie Fedora]

Looks like the same people negotiated this deal as the ones who came up with the "stick it to the DVCers" 2002 DC points chart. This is very sad.

However, I'm sure they will lower the cruise points required once the on-site room demand "firms-up"........NOT!!!

Maybe DVC could negotiate a deal with Disney recreation for the fireworks cruise as that may be the only way to cruise on points.

I am soooooooo looking forward to the 2003 DC points chart. I wonder what surprises it will hold?? What do you think???

 

[Caskbill]

$10,000? I don't think so. Let's look at this again.

Rent 740 points at $10/point = $7400
Pay $3.50/point dues = $2590
Net gain on sale = $4810
Income tax on the gain, assume Federal & State = 34% = $1635

So after tax profit = $3175

Option 1: Current cash price for cruise is $4335. So take your $3175 profit, add $1160 of additional money and buy the cruise. Total cost to you is $1160 out of pocket, and loss of 740 points. (note dues are not additional as they've already been deducted from the $7400)

Option 2: Don't sell the points but just use them for the cruise? Then total cost to you is the dues you paid of roughly $2590 + $75 fee. Total cost to you is $2665 out of pocket (dues you've paid on those points), and loss of 740 points.

Looks like you would come out ahead about $1500 by renting the points and paying cash.

Also consider the value of the points at DVC. For 740 points you can get a 1-B/R at OKW mid season for 27 nights (20 weekday, 7 weekend).

Just for comparisons:
Cash for the cruise at $4335 = $619/night
Rent points at $10/pt for the cruise and pay cash = $166/night
Use points for the cruise = $381/night
Use points for a 1-B/R at OKW mid season for 7-night week = $98/night

Note that none of the above considers the initial points purchase into DVC (Thus the big difference between a strictly cash cruise and using points (either directly or via renting them out)). But if you do use points, then the above gives you a relative value based on your total ongoing cost for those points (dues).

Finally, while dividing $4335 by 740 points gives a 'Disney' value of $5.86/point, the true selling price for a point would have to be about $7.00/point in order to 'break even'. This is because of the tax implication.

That is, if you rented 740 points at $7.00 each, your after tax income and dues payment would equal the cash ressie price. Thus you essentially traded 740 points for a cruise. Use your points directly is the same with the addition of the $75 fee.

Rent points at more than $7.00 and you come out ahead. Rent them for less? Well then you're just better off using them yourself for the cruise.

Not report the income to the IRS? Try to hide an almost $5000 gain? I would hope all DVC'ers are more honest than that.

Note: examples will vary depending on actual dues. I used $3.50/point as an average.

P.S. Sell the points for about $12.35/point, and the cruise is free. That is, you made enough after tax profit to make a cash reservation for the cruise. You traded 740 points and got enough money to pay the dues on those points AND pay cash for the cruise.

Anyway, just playing with numbers for the fun of it.

 

[Dean]

If one rents out the points, one should use the entire amount received as available to pay for cash for the cruise. If you're getting reimbursed (by way of rental) for the dues, you have that cash extra when compared to using points and should not deduct that from the total. As for income tax reporting. My accountant tells me what I though I knew already, that one can rent out a vacation property and that if 2 weeks or less is rented, There is no requirement to report the income or pay taxes on it.

 

[zurgswife]

After all is said and done regarding points and a cruise...I think I'll just pay cash....for a family of 6 i don't think i'd have enough points any way...

 

[larry_poppins]

If the points keep going up for a Disney cruise. I will start looking at Disney's competition. True, you can pay cash for the cruise, but that is not very appealing to me. Carnaval and other cruises are often much cheaper than a Disney cruise. And if you don't cruise Disney you can also sail out of the port of Tampa which has itineraries not found from Port Canaveral.

However, I am not bitter about Disney's point structure for the cruises. If it weren't for Disney I never would have cruised. Now I know I like it and I am willing to try other cruise lines.

Larry

 

[Bennet]

Originally posted by zurgswife
After all is said and done regarding points and a cruise...I think I'll just pay cash....for a family of 6 i don't think i'd have enough points any way...

LOL - ... and where's the cash? Zurg!