How money changes people

[Lilo&Stitch]

I completely understand. My father moved in with my family in 1997 because of illness, even though I'm the youngest and very much the poorest of the 3 siblings. Doctors said he'd die if no one helped and my brother and sister refused outright. I was happy to take him in, even buying a house where he wouldn't have to use stairs. He had very little money when he passed in 2009, but the second my sister and her husband walked into the house after, my brother-in-law grabbed my father's checkbook to check the balance. My sister and her husband make at least a million a year, but when the money cleared the bank, they took their $1500 share immediately. They never came to see my Dad except on his birthday/Father's Day (same week) and Christmas. Same with my brother, though he doesn't make quite as much money. I was upset to say the least after caring for our Dad for 12 years that they would take the money they didn't need that we desperately needed to keep our heat and electric going (ended up using a credit card to cover). My husband works two jobs and I am full time also, but we can barely pay our bills each month. It just really burned me when they never cared about him enough when he was alive, yet felt they had the right to his things and his money.

THIS ! I guess that's how I feel, my other brother and I are the one's who help my parents out when they don't feel good, need something fixed etc..we will be the one's who will care for my parents when they need it, we will always be there for them and the other brother will not, he's just the one giving them a little extra money to help out with a cpl bills and live comfortable !

 

[RitaE]

I'm sorry you're having such difficulty with this but what in the world were your parents thinking? I guess the old adage of Nothing in Life is Free kind of applies here. It may not be something they want but I wonder if it wouldn't be better for them to just sell that house and get a small apartment, and live off the sales proceeds for awhile. And perhaps get part-time jobs for awhile, since they both seem to be healthy.

I admit the phrase "Money changes people" really hits a nerve with me because it is something my brother in law throws at us all the time, usually after we have refused to give him ours or "invest" in his latest scheme.

 

[luvmy3]

Thanks for the replies, don't know why i feel the need to clarify, but, my other brother and I DID give our blessing to my parents to do whatever they feel is necessary and we are both fine with the house being willed to the other brother, the problem is that my parents aren't comfortable with it, they're also afraid that even if they did do it, that he can just stop giving them money and their house is still his, and believe it or not, he could possibly do that ! he has made them wait for the money several times.
Also, this brother never comes over to visit & we aren't ever invited there, we see him maybe once a year (he lives no more than 30 mins away)
My parents decided my other brother and I should know because we are all close and they didn't think it was right to "surprise" us in the end.
We did discuss the reverse mortgage and it's definitely something my parents are thinking of doing, as for how much money they get, um seriously it's really not that much.
The thing that is really bothering us is that he wants this done behind our backs and I feel like he's giving my parents no other options.

OP, if it really isn't "that much" then your parents should have never agreed to retire and rely on your brother in the first place. They made sure they had no other options, what would have happened if your brother simply couldn't support them? What would they have done then?
Also, while you see it as doing something behind your back, it sounds like you aren't very close siblings and since this is a matter between him and your parents, I can understand him not wanting you to know the details.

 

[luvmy3]

THIS ! I guess that's how I feel, my other brother and I are the one's who help my parents out when they don't feel good, need something fixed etc..we will be the one's who will care for my parents when they need it, we will always be there for them and the other brother will not, he's just the one giving them a little extra money to help out with a cpl bills and live comfortable !

Well that seemed important enough to your parents since they agreed to let him do it. Honestly at this point it just sounds like you are a little jealous of your brother for being able to write those checks.

 

[eliza61]

Thanks for the replies, don't know why i feel the need to clarify, but, my other brother and I DID give our blessing to my parents to do whatever they feel is necessary and we are both fine with the house being willed to the other brother, the problem is that my parents aren't comfortable with it, they're also afraid that even if they did do it, that he can just stop giving them money and their house is still his, and believe it or not, he could possibly do that ! he has made them wait for the money several times.
Also, this brother never comes over to visit & we aren't ever invited there, we see him maybe once a year (he lives no more than 30 mins away)
My parents decided my other brother and I should know because we are all close and they didn't think it was right to "surprise" us in the end.
We did discuss the reverse mortgage and it's definitely something my parents are thinking of doing, as for how much money they get, um seriously it's really not that much.
The thing that is really bothering us is that he wants this done behind our backs and I feel like he's giving my parents no other options.

Ok so IMO the main issue is that brother is forcing them to do things they are uncomfortable with. So let's look at it from a will issues. If you ever read a will most will have a line saying "being of sound mind and of free will". or some thing to that effect. basically it is stating that what has been written was a decision made by the signer. Your parents cannot say that. Your brother is coercing them big time.

Now next, they need to see an attorney pronto. once again we are back to the issue of forcing some one to sign documents they do not agree with. I don't care if it's a child, there are tons of seniors who have been bilked by "well meaning" children.

Lastly, your brother is not going to let up pressure until he gets his way. You right, he is trying to leave your parents with no option until he gets the house for whatever reason. You guys need to come up with a solution that gets them financial independance and pronto. Now whether the amount is large or small is moot, they are taking money from bro for assistance, if they truly want to remain independant then that has got to stop, like yesterday.

 

[Lilo&Stitch]

OP, if it really isn't "that much" then your parents should have never agreed to retire and rely on your brother in the first place. They made sure they had no other options, what would have happened if your brother simply couldn't support them? What would they have done then?
Also, while you see it as doing something behind your back, it sounds like you aren't very close siblings and since this is a matter between him and your parents, I can understand him not wanting you to know the details.

They agreed to retire because they thought the money was a GIFT, my parents spent alot of money on him while he was waiting to make it big and I guess they figured maybe he was showing his appreciation, why would they think there were strings attached ya know ?? and yes they will sell the house if there is no other choice, it's not that big of a deal but of course they would prefer not to

 

[Lilo&Stitch]

Well that seemed important enough to your parents since they agreed to let him do it. Honestly at this point it just sounds like you are a little jealous of your brother for being able to write those checks.

LOL um no ! I see how spoiled his kids are and I'm pretty happy being where i'm at

 

[luvmy3]

They agreed to retire because they thought the money was a GIFT, my parents spend alot of money on him while he was waiting to make it big and I guess they figured maybe he was showing his appreciation, why would they think there were strings attached ya know ?? and yes they will sell the house if there is no other choice, it's not that big of a deal but of course they would prefer not to

They put themselves in a position to rely on someone else, whether it was a gift or not. If someone doesn't have enough in retirement where they still need "not that much" every month to stay in their home, then they aren't ready to retire, period.Your parents made that choice when they shouldn't have. Maybe your brother sees the house as a gift for all that he has allowed them to do

 

[lovemygoofy]

THIS ! I guess that's how I feel, my other brother and I are the one's who help my parents out when they don't feel good, need something fixed etc..we will be the one's who will care for my parents when they need it, we will always be there for them and the other brother will not, he's just the one giving them a little extra money to help out with a cpl bills and live comfortable !

My husband and I have to help both our moms every month so they can continue to live in their own homes, which is an apartment.

I cannot tell you what a pain in the behind it is to have to pay for your parents lifestyle. You may not think your brother is contributing anything to your parents, but you have stated over and over they won't be able to stay in their house or continue on with the lifestyle they have without him. How is he the bad guy now? He is helping them whether you think so or not.

You also, whether you think so or not, don't know the entire relationship with your parents and that son. It can really wear on a relationship when the child has to start upkeeping the parents. Boundaries change and when you see your own money flying out the window especially if it is crazy things, you can get upset about it.

I would stay out of it until you also have to contribute to your parent's financially. If you visit and help them in other chores, that is great but I wouldn't throw rocks until you have to pony up money for them every month as well.

 

[sk!mom]

I don't like to share things on a message board, i'm laid back and pretty care free, but all of a sudden i find myself feeling sick over a family situation.
My oldest brother is well off, im talking his DD was given a BMW for her birthday type well off and his home is worth a cpl million.
Anyway, a few years back he told my parents they should retire and he would help them out with the bills so they could be comfortable, so they did ! well fast forward to this week when he saw my folks will, simply put, he is going to cut them off unless the will states that their home be signed over to him, they also had a few personal things willed to my other brother and myself, which he wants changed too.

I am just sick over this, and honestly it's not about the money or anything, it's the fact that they feel like they have no other options if they want to keep their house ( and yes they paid for the house themselves ) they can't afford to stay there without that extra they get from him monthly, we have offered to let them move in with us and tried tossing other ideas around, but they just love their home, they're healthy and active and don't want or need to leave. I just don't get why he wants to do that to my parents, or to us for that matter, my parents are so upset that he wants my other brother and I cut out of the will and yet they just don't know what to do ?? and the best part !!! my parents are not supposed to tell my brother and I about this revised will, so we have to pretend not to know anything and of course i'm sure you know what I want to say to him

Well, thanks for listening, sometimes it just feels better to type it out

First of all, I've very sorry. Family situations as parents get older can get very stressful.

However, as an unbiased observer, I see a few points. 1. The economy has tanked over the last few years so it's very likely that your "well off" brother isn't in the same position that he was when he made this offer to your parents. 2. He may need the proceeds from the eventual sale of their house to help him recover from continuing to support them. 3. If he has already supported them for a few years and they are still active and healthy, he may be supporting them for many years to come.

Bottom line to me, if he's taken on their support for many years then it's probably fair for him to receive the house in return.

I will agree that he should not be pressuring them to cut his siblings out of receiving personal sentimental items.

You say that they are healthy and active, could they resume working? Just how much is your brother subsidizing them? Could they earn it instead? If not, could you and your other brother begin contributing to support them and let them leave their will as is?

 

[luvmy3]

LOL um no ! I see how spoiled his kids are and I'm pretty happy being where i'm at

That maybe true, but that post I quoted comes off like you are.

 

[Marionnette]

Thanks for the replies, don't know why i feel the need to clarify, but, my other brother and I DID give our blessing to my parents to do whatever they feel is necessary and we are both fine with the house being willed to the other brother, the problem is that my parents aren't comfortable with it, they're also afraid that even if they did do it, that he can just stop giving them money and their house is still his, and believe it or not, he could possibly do that ! he has made them wait for the money several times.
Also, this brother never comes over to visit & we aren't ever invited there, we see him maybe once a year (he lives no more than 30 mins away)
My parents decided my other brother and I should know because we are all close and they didn't think it was right to "surprise" us in the end.
We did discuss the reverse mortgage and it's definitely something my parents are thinking of doing, as for how much money they get, um seriously it's really not that much.
The thing that is really bothering us is that he wants this done behind our backs and I feel like he's giving my parents no other options.

Your parents can also change their will at any time and cut your brother out entirely without him knowing. It goes both ways.

They have options. They just don't like the choices.

THIS ! I guess that's how I feel, my other brother and I are the one's who help my parents out when they don't feel good, need something fixed etc..we will be the one's who will care for my parents when they need it, we will always be there for them and the other brother will not, he's just the one giving them a little extra money to help out with a cpl bills and live comfortable !

Sorry, but I regard caring for your parents as an act of love that is not borne out of the expectation of financial reward at some point. We all help in whatever manner we can. Some offer emotional support. Some handle the little maintenance problems. Others cannot do either but they can offer financial support. Each form of support has its value but just because your brother is not physically present for your parents, it doesn't mean that he is not helping out.

 

[eliza61]

They agreed to retire because they thought the money was a GIFT, my parents spent alot of money on him while he was waiting to make it big and I guess they figured maybe he was showing his appreciation, why would they think there were strings attached ya know ?? and yes they will sell the house if there is no other choice, it's not that big of a deal but of course they would prefer not to

Ok so then it's just a matter of asserting themselves. I'll take a page from Dr. Phil, here is how the conversation can go.

Parents: "Son, we love you and we really appreciate the financial assistance that you have given us. We did think that that assistance was given without any strings attached to it. You have requested us to do some thing we do not feel comfortable with so we want you to know that the matter of a will and who we will leave what to is between us. We totally understand if you decide you can no longer assist us financially and please believe that no matter what we will always love you. So let me repeat we will make the decision of who will benefit and who will inherit our possession ourselves. We will not be forced into making a decision. We hope you can understand and respect our decision"

 

[mafibisha]

I completely understand. My father moved in with my family in 1997 because of illness, even though I'm the youngest and very much the poorest of the 3 siblings. Doctors said he'd die if no one helped and my brother and sister refused outright. I was happy to take him in, even buying a house where he wouldn't have to use stairs. He had very little money when he passed in 2009, but the second my sister and her husband walked into the house after, my brother-in-law grabbed my father's checkbook to check the balance. My sister and her husband make at least a million a year, but when the money cleared the bank, they took their $1500 share immediately. They never came to see my Dad except on his birthday/Father's Day (same week) and Christmas. Same with my brother, though he doesn't make quite as much money. I was upset to say the least after caring for our Dad for 12 years that they would take the money they didn't need that we desperately needed to keep our heat and electric going (ended up using a credit card to cover). My husband works two jobs and I am full time also, but we can barely pay our bills each month. It just really burned me when they never cared about him enough when he was alive, yet felt they had the right to his things and his money.

Aw so sorry

And so sorry OP. Family should mean everything but sometimes they're the worst
(to put it mildly LOL)

Not that it will change anything, but OP, could it be your brothers wife, your sister-in-law behind all this? Maybe there isn't one, or maybe I missed it somewhere.
But many times in family issues, the in-law is the instigator and your brother may be doing this to keep the peace with her?
Again, not that it would make a difference, but then again, it might?

(No flames please, I'm an in-law and have them too! And there have been moments over the years )

 

[Pigeon]

Ok so then it's just a matter of asserting themselves. I'll take a page from Dr. Phil, here is how the conversation can go.

Parents: "Son, we love you and we really appreciate the financial assistance that you have given us. We did think that that assistance was given without any strings attached to it. You have requested us to do some thing we do not feel comfortable with so we want you to know that the matter of a will and who we will leave what to is between us. We totally understand if you decide you can no longer assist us financially and please believe that no matter what we will always love you. So let me repeat we will make the decision of who will benefit and who will inherit our possession ourselves"

I agree with this.

I'm frankly baffled by the people making excuses for your brother's egregious behavior. If he had been upfront with your parents when he first proposed that they should retire, that would be fine. But to promise to contribute to their retirement and then demand the house later on is not honorable behavior.

If talking with him as Eliza suggests goes nowhere, if I were your parents, I'd tell him I was making a will as he demands, and then I'd make a later will revoking the earlier one and leave it with my attorney, leaving my estate as I saw fit.

 

[Lilo&Stitch]

Ok so then it's just a matter of asserting themselves. I'll take a page from Dr. Phil, here is how the conversation can go.

Parents: "Son, we love you and we really appreciate the financial assistance that you have given us. We did think that that assistance was given without any strings attached to it. You have requested us to do some thing we do not feel comfortable with so we want you to know that the matter of a will and who we will leave what to is between us. We totally understand if you decide you can no longer assist us financially and please believe that no matter what we will always love you. So let me repeat we will make the decision of who will benefit and who will inherit our possession ourselves. We will not be forced into making a decision. We hope you can understand and respect our decision"

I agree with this.

I'm frankly baffled by the people making excuses for your brother's egregious behavior. If he had been upfront with your parents when he first proposed that they should retire, that would be fine. But to promise to contribute to their retirement and then demand the house later on is not honorable behavior.

If talking with him as Eliza suggests goes nowhere, if I were your parents, I'd tell him I was making a will as he demands, and then I'd make a later will revoking the earlier one and leave it with my attorney, leaving my estate as I saw fit.

Thank you this is exactly how I feel ! and my parents in NO way have a certain "lifestyle", they maybe go to dinner and movie one night every cpl weeks and they don't spend money on anything really. They assumed the money was a gift with no strings attached and they feel forced into a situation that makes them uncomfortable.

As for them working, that's exactly what they've both been looking in to.

 

[drcmk]

he saw my folks will, simply put, he is going to cut them off unless the will states that their home be signed over to him, they also had a few personal things willed to my other brother and myself, which he wants changed too.

First of all, you have this second-hand, from your parents, who are emotional about it. Maybe these aren't "exactly" the words your brother used.

Objectively, this looks like your brother is basically offering them a reverse mortgage at MUCH better rates than they'd get at any bank. It sounds like a great deal for your parents and they are lucky he can offer it to them.

 

[disneychic2]

Your parents can also change their will at any time and cut your brother out entirely without him knowing. It goes both ways.

They have options. They just don't like the choices.


Sorry, but I regard caring for your parents as an act of love that is not borne out of the expectation of financial reward at some point. We all help in whatever manner we can. Some offer emotional support. Some handle the little maintenance problems. Others cannot do either but they can offer financial support. Each form of support has its value but just because your brother is not physically present for your parents, it doesn't mean that he is not helping out.

Yes, caring for parents is an act of love, whether monetary or physical. However, extorting their house from them after encouraging them to retire early, making them dependent upon him financially is not. And it is in no way "helping out".

If the brother had sat down with the parents and said, I can make it possible for you to retire early by supporting you financially, but I would require you to will your house to me, the parents would probably not have done it. But if they had, at least they would know what they were agreeing to up front. That's the honorable way to do it. And if brother's financial circumstances have changed, then the honorable thing to do would be to go to the parents, explain the situation, and come up with a solution the whole family can live with.

And for the poster who said it gets draining to be forced to support parents financially, while that is very true, and sadly happening a lot more than ever before, this is something he brought about himself. He wasn't forced into it. It is so sad when parents don't plan ahead for their retirement and the children have to pick up the slack. I have a friend who picks up the slack for not only her mom, but her sister and nephews as well! Big pain!

I agree with this.

I'm frankly baffled by the people making excuses for your brother's egregious behavior. If he had been upfront with your parents when he first proposed that they should retire, that would be fine. But to promise to contribute to their retirement and then demand the house later on is not honorable behavior.

If talking with him as Eliza suggests goes nowhere, if I were your parents, I'd tell him I was making a will as he demands, and then I'd make a later will revoking the earlier one and leave it with my attorney, leaving my estate as I saw fit.

I'm baffled as well. I can't support someone who belatedly puts strings on a deal struck long ago, and on top of that, demands even the small sentimental items go to him. And I'm a person who always looks for the good in someone and gives them the benefit of the doubt.

I think having the parents go back to work would be a solution or selling the house. This just doesn't seem like it could have a happy ending. OP, best of luck in this difficult situation!

 

[rumrunnergirl]

Hope it works out.

 

[Marionnette]

Yes, caring for parents is an act of love, whether monetary or physical. However, extorting their house from them after encouraging them to retire early, making them dependent upon him financially is not. And it is in no way "helping out".

If the brother had sat down with the parents and said, I can make it possible for you to retire early by supporting you financially, but I would require you to will your house to me, the parents would probably not have done it. But if they had, at least they would know what they were agreeing to up front. That's the honorable way to do it. And if brother's financial circumstances have changed, then the honorable thing to do would be to go to the parents, explain the situation, and come up with a solution the whole family can live with.

And for the poster who said it gets draining to be forced to support parents financially, while that is very true, and sadly happening a lot more than ever before, this is something he brought about himself. He wasn't forced into it. It is so sad when parents don't plan ahead for their retirement and the children have to pick up the slack. I have a friend who picks up the slack for not only her mom, but her sister and nephews as well! Big pain!

I'm not supporting the backdoor way that the brother is handling this if this is indeed how the situation is. But I'm assuming that the OP's parents accepted his offer of help knowing that they could not afford to retire on their own income at the time. What did they think would happen if the brother was no longer capable of giving them that "little extra money to help out with a cpl bills and live comfortable"? Sounds like they were a little too eager to retire early on someone else's dime.

I'm baffled as well. I can't support someone who belatedly puts strings on a deal struck long ago, and on top of that, demands even the small sentimental items go to him. And I'm a person who always looks for the good in someone and gives them the benefit of the doubt.

I think having the parents go back to work would be a solution or selling the house. This just doesn't seem like it could have a happy ending. OP, best of luck in this difficult situation!

Of course, we only know what the OP is telling us. And she only knows what the parents have told her. She hasn't even spoken with the wealthy brother, who "spoils" his kids, to get his perspective. For all we know, this may have been the agreement all along and the brother is asking the parents to make good on their promise by formalizing it with their will.