How many FP+ do you want?

[DRDISNEYMD]

To me, the ultimate success of FP+ / My Magic isn't a specific number of passes - it's the idea that I'll be able to plan my day, and thus spend my time doing stuff other than waiting in lines - ideally for Disney, this would be shopping and eating, but I'll probably do other things.

Having 3 fastpasses isn'ta plan. Having 5 passes isn't a plan. Having a set of fastpasses and dinner reservations that covers my visit to a park (at least 6-8 hours, preferably 10 or more) is a plan.

I would guess that the normal visitor stays at a park for 8-10 hours. Let's say, hypothetically, 3 FP+ means you wait 30 minutes at an attraction (20 in line, 10 on the ride) instead of 90 minutes. 3 attractions x 30 minutes = 90 minutes "planned" out of the average person's day. If they stay for 9 hours, Disney has helped them plan one sixth of it. The other five sixths will be spent wandering around, waiting in line, and other, typically "unplanned" activities.

For Disney to spend (a reported) one billion dollars on a system that schedule less than 20% of a guest's time is ridiculous. Such a plan will not significantly reduce the amount of time anyone spends in line, and therefore will not increase the amount of time spent in restaurants and gift shops - thus negating the point of the program in the first place. I think FP+ has great potential, but to reach that potential will require a significant increase in the amount of "planned" experience.

~Yes, thank you! Zorro, comes to the rescue again & again! I think I agree with the gist of your post -- running around all day collecting fp's are not the central focus of our Disney vacations. With that said, I would rework the figures. I have never waited in a 30 minute FP line. We rarely wait in stand-by lines for that long.

 

[fla4fun]

I don't think people would have as many issues with "just 3" if they could use those three in any manner they wanted. For example, if you're a RnRR fan, and could use all three for RnRR, you would be happier with three than you are now.

For me, I'm OK with a maximum of three. What I don't like is the inflexibility. I don't like being forced to book three when I may only want one or two. I don't like having to book all three in the same park per day. I would ultimately like to see them set whatever the maximum number per day will be, and then let you use them however you wanted to - knowing that once they are gone, they are gone. As it is now, I end up booking FP+ I know I won't use because to get the one I want I have to take two I don't.

I doubt they will every allow us to book the same attraction twice in the same day though. But, back to the coaster fan, it would be nice to maybe be able to book SM, EE, and RnRR the same day if you choose to use your three that way. I do believe in the end that on property guests will get some kind of FP+ perk, either increasing the number, or allowing booking farther out than off property guests. I think part of the problem right now is they are still in testing mode - they have an idea of what will happen as they roll in each new category of guests, but until they have EVERYONE who enters the parks using FP+, they won't really know what limits they need.

I'm really trying hard to keep an open mind until we see the final product.

 

[fla4fun]

Oops - duplicate post!

 

[lucyem]

I think they should keep fp- as is and make fp+ a pay for service with their tiers and limitations.

Really i think they should have left well enough alone, but thats not happening. We only ever needed 1-2 fp's in epcot and ak. 2-3 in dhs. And would be pretty constant pulling them in mk the whole time there. We are also big hoppers.

 

[bcrook]

~Yes, thank you! Zorro, comes to the rescue again & again! I think I agree with the gist of your post -- running around all day collecting fp's are not the central focus of our Disney vacations. With that said, I would rework the figures. I have never waited in a 30 minute FP line. We rarely wait in stand-by lines for that long.

You have come a long way in understanding the implications of this new system. Early on you guaranteed that everyone would get three FP+ and plenty regular FP to pull on the day of. I think that idea has been dispelled. Then it was three FP+ will be all you need, because you won't waste time running all over the park, and by the time you grab a splash mountain FP and wait for the return time - you could have just waited in standby. Now you have been rescued by the Man in Black because he says that FP+ is inadequate.

Also his post says the entire FP+ experience is 30 minutes (waiting at check in #1, checkpoint #2, and then the ride). It probably takes 30 minutes to do a lot of the rides and attractions. A lot more than 30 minutes for stuff like nemo show, Fantasmic, Kilimanjaro safaris etc.

I think FP+ had a lot of potential, but in its current state and planned state - inadequate is a great adjective.

Maybe if more executives are replaced, this system could become more of a "+".

 

[JessLCH]

I'm fine with three.
I'm not fine with being forced to choose three or none, tiers, or the inability to park hop and use FP+ in both parks. The new system has potential to be great, but I feel it's limiting in its current state.

I agree!

 

[Colleen27]

I always thought part of the whole idea of the FP was that rather than doing nothing but standing in line, the FP is "holding" your place while you do something else, preferably something that involves spending your money. The whole tier mess will have the opposite effect on us. My kids won't choose between TSM or RNR, we'll have to do both. So one day while I'm waiting in a line 60 minutes or more, it's going to be 60 minutes or more I won't be eating....I won't be shopping.....I'll be standing in a line doing nothing to make them a profit at all. Then off to the next long line, where I'll also be spending nothing. Can't waste time in gift shops when we have a lot of things we like to do in each park and more time to wait in line for them.

That's what I'm not understanding about the intent of this new system - I can't imagine that a shift from swipe-to-pay to tap-to-pay will increase spending enough to offset the lost revenue from guests spending a greater (and in many cases MUCH greater) percentage of their park day in lines. And if tap-to-pay is the revenue driver in the new system, why mess with the operation of FP at all? FP could still have been used as the incentive to opt-in to the tap-to-pay system by simply converting the in-park machines to tap instead of swipe.

 

[Robo]

why mess with the operation of FP at all? FP could still have been used as the incentive to opt-in to the tap-to-pay system by simply converting the in-park machines to tap instead of swipe.

The more I see Disney's response to the negative reactions from so many guests about FP+, the more I am convinced that they (the brass) had no idea of the difficulties of trying to make such an unwieldy "system" actually WORK.

We see a constant flow of "fixes" to what appears
to be more and more satisfactorily unworkable in practice...
in a reversal of the way it was initially proposed.

Disney brass never needed to use FP's in the parks.
They had no firsthand knowledge of its operation, in practice.

Some underling at a meeting makes a statement that (s)he has a plan to "improve" the FP system
and also "add to the corporate bottom-line," the brass gives the OK,
and the whole ball starts rolling.

That ball is now out-of-control and is bearing down for our collective "Indiana Jones" selves.

I'm hoping that we can all dive out of the way!

 

[mom2rtk]

This is myth. This is not designed to give these people a chance. Actually it is going to hurt them more .. The casual visitor will be blindsided by the more savvy visitors weeks in advance. Disney doesn't care who has those slots, they just want vacations locked in an advance to keep off site guests at their parks and not wander off.

Less than 10,000 people a day get TSMM a fp. There are 10,000 people who show up everyday to DHS to grab those FP before 11:30. Every single day. Those same people will know to go online weeks in advance. The headliners will be gone before even showing up at the park.

FP has gone from being a perk to being a tool to control behavior and spending patterns. Disney chose not to build rides, instead they chose to build a system that locks their customer base into attending their parks.

We will see how that philosophy works.

Another excellent post!

I wonder if Disney has figured out yet that the headliners will be gone before the "day of" once this goes into full rollout. One would think they would, but one would also have thought they would anticipate the mess the first day of BOG ADRs turned out to be. Or the "Unleash the Villains" event. They seem to have a track record of underestimating things. Or enjoying the frenzy. Not sure which it is.

I want Soarin' AND Maelstrom at Epcot.

I just want to say..... there's something wrong with any FP system that keeps someone who wants a Maelstrom FP from getting one.

So, having only 3 available while combining this with a tiered system tends to "spread the wealth."

I understand that's a popular notion these days. But that doesn't make it so. If you read back through the statements that have come out of Disney on this system over time, it really becomes clear that bcrook is right about the true motivation.

I would probably only want 5 or 6 at MK and DHS. But like you I detest the restrictions placed by the tiers and by not being able to get repeat FPs for my favourites. Why shouldn't we be able to get 3 FPs for Splash if that is how we want to allocate them? This 'Big Brother" aspect of the FP+ system is a big part of why we dislike this new system so much.

The bit about no repeats for certain rides gets left out of the discussion an awful lot. That actually ranks right up there as one of the biggest takeaways of this system for us. You might prefer to do Splash 3 times. I might prefer to do Space 3 times. Someone else might prefer to do BTRMM 3 times. It seems so arbitrary to deny people that opportunity. But I do understand that TSMM would have to be excluded from any duplicates.

Once they have given every one three, what will they do with the leftovers?

That question is still a mystery. Will they simply be available to grab first come first serve? Not likely - no value in that..

Could they be sold? Possibly

Could they be doled out as perks - surprise and delight to guests in the park...Disney has actually said they would do that.

Could they be an on site deluxe room treat?

Could they simply be eaten and allow standby to progress faster? I don't know.

But this will be fun to see.

I agree, but wouldn't really use the word "fun". Interesting perhaps, but not fun. OK, maybe "fun" if I don't have a trip on the line..... because I know every FP they use to "surprise and delight" is a FP they denied me in the process. So what..... they take away my chance at a repeat trip to ride Space Mountain, then expect me to be happy and grateful when they give it back to me? I guess my memory is just too long. And maybe that's the problem. If they were rolling this out new, it could all be received as a great thing. But when you have to take it away in order to gift it back, it's a far tougher sell.

And don't tier me, bro.

And the hits just keep coming!

Maybe if more executives are replaced, this system could become more of a "+".

Or maybe we should just take away some of their pay, then gift it back to them as "surprise and delight" when they improve the system to better serve their guests.

 

[mom2rtk]

That's what I'm not understanding about the intent of this new system - I can't imagine that a shift from swipe-to-pay to tap-to-pay will increase spending enough to offset the lost revenue from guests spending a greater (and in many cases MUCH greater) percentage of their park day in lines. And if tap-to-pay is the revenue driver in the new system, why mess with the operation of FP at all? FP could still have been used as the incentive to opt-in to the tap-to-pay system by simply converting the in-park machines to tap instead of swipe.

FP+ is the gateway drug.

It's how they're going to get everyone on the band.

 

[mom2rtk]

Disney brass never needed to use FP's in the parks.
They had no firsthand knowledge of its operation, in practice.

I keep thinking back to Tom Staggs' comment about how his boys always like to go ride the 3 mountains in the MK and how he wants everyone to be able to do that.

Yeah. Sure. I'm sure his family doesn't even wait in a FP line. And with tiering, the general public's days of doing the "Triple Mountain Whammy" are a thing of the past.

 

[DRDISNEYMD]

You have come a long way in understanding the implications of this new system. Early on you guaranteed that everyone would get three FP+ and plenty regular FP to pull on the day of. I think that idea has been dispelled. Then it was three FP+ will be all you need, because you won't waste time running all over the park, and by the time you grab a splash mountain FP and wait for the return time - you could have just waited in standby. Now you have been rescued by the Man in Black because he says that FP+ is inadequate.

Also his post says the entire FP+ experience is 30 minutes (waiting at check in #1, checkpoint #2, and then the ride). It probably takes 30 minutes to do a lot of the rides and attractions. A lot more than 30 minutes for stuff like nemo show, Fantasmic, Kilimanjaro safaris etc.

I think FP+ had a lot of potential, but in its current state and planned state - inadequate is a great adjective. DPC did not say FP+ was "inadequate."

Maybe if more executives are replaced, this system could become more of a "+".

~This is just awful. I said, I *think* I agree with the "gist" of DPC's post -- not every single word verbatim.

~To say, I have come a long way in my "understanding" of the implications of FP+ is absolutely absurd. I was here the day news broke on "xpass" and you were nowhere to be found around here. I've been following this closely and discussing FP+ from day one. My original predictions have been spot on from the beginning. I don't have to waste my entire day chastising posters and waiting for the sky to fall.

~As far as I know, FP+ is still in testing and has not been released to the general public, so I can't predict with certainty what the implications will be. I can't predict the future.

~That said, I do know the implications of the legacy FP. It was not "perfect" for me, which is why we exploited the time return loophole for years! We pulled FP after FP and used them *whenever* and *however* we wanted to (after the time window expired) -- not the way Disney intended for us to use them. If FP legacy was so perfect, we would not have had the desire to do that.

~Also, I said FP+ will be free and available to everyone and I was right about that. I never "guaranteed" anything to anyone. I really don't appreciate your desperate attempts to twist my words. I have said from the very beginning that I didn't care for chasing down FP's all day, so that's nothing new. Why are you attempting to bring up my past comments out of context anyway? How low can you go? If you don't like what I write to someone, just don't read it. You don't have to attack me.

~I really don't need you to interpret to me what DPC wrote. This is very bizarre to me. It's obvious that we both perceive things very differently. Frankly, I find the majority of your posts to be unpleasant, aggressive and rude. I have never agreed with a single word you have written on this board.

~I agree with the "gist" of DPC's post and more importantly I totally agree his spirit. He's a nice guy and doesn't attack or mock posters for their opinion(s). He always comes up with fascinating topics, amazing concepts, and delightful ideas related to Disney -- and even if I don't quite agree with them, I love his zeal and spirit. I could just read his posts all day. Plus, he's respectful and doesn't act like an obnoxious know it all. And, I've never seen him back peddle on his comments and continually change his "predictions" as more info comes forward.

To me, the ultimate success of FP+ / My Magic isn't a specific number of passes - it's the idea that I'll be able to plan my day, and thus spend my time doing stuff other than waiting in lines - ideally for Disney, this would be shopping and eating, but I'll probably do other things.

~Nowhere in this post does DPC say FP+ is "inadequate." However, I do agree that "inadequate" is a great adjective for other reasons. I think DPC is a fabulous writer, one of the best on this board. He certainly doesn't need someone like you to mess up his posts with your tacky words. He says, "the ultimate success of FP+ / My Magic isn't a specific number of passes - it's the idea that I'll be able to plan my day, and thus spend my time doing stuff other than waiting in lines." And, I really like this.

~The details concerning FP+ are not final. NO ONE KNOWS. I said that *I* would adjust the figures and that is to accommodate our touring style based upon our personal accounts and experiences. We don't spend twenty minutes in the FP line, that's more like stand by for us.

~You certainly don't know what's adequate or inadequate for everyone. I disagree with everything you say. I love FP+ a million times better than legacy FP! And, I cannot wait for Disney to hammer out the details and work out the kinks! I'm really looking forward to it. And, I just saw those adorable flash drives that Disney is sending to people. Awww, they're are so cute. Disney, I want one!!!

 

[rt2dz]

I've been thinking about this a lot. Even post a similar thread a few weeks ago. I don't think it is necessarily the number that is the issue. I think it has more to do with use.

Tiering is awful. There are only two rides we FP at Epcot--Soarin and TT. Obviously, I need only 2 at Epcot, but I need to get those 2 and not just 1 of them.

Only 1 per ride is no good either, to me. At AK I won't ride Kali because I hate water rides, but I do like to ride EE 2-3 times.

Limiting to one park is no good. We frequently go to DHS early, rude TSMM and what else we want to do and are finished for the day. We'll go to another park. Or we hop into DHS to catch F! Yes, we'll probably now FP+ are rides later to correspond to F!, but we'll still want FP at our am park.

And 3 is no good because we FP SM, PP, BTMRR, SM, POOH, and others (sometimes twice) at MK. One if the things about having a larger family with age gaps and one with special needs.

I get MB are a tracking device and MM+ is about increasing Disney profits (won't work with me because I'm not easily manipulated) and not at all about FP+. FP+ is the sell to get guests to opt-in to Disney's game. I just think that it is backfiring with a lot of us experienced Disney people.

What I might do instead is, give onsite guest the ability to book three, any ride, the night before with the ability to get more in the park the next day. Keep the two hour window. Maybe have people use one before they can book another. It can still all be virtual offsite guests can book three first thing in the morning (day of) with more available after use of one.

--OR--

Give onsite guests immediate FP access to x number of rides based on number of nights booked onsite that can be used whenever, however--like dining credits. Then, if someone wanted to use it for 15 rides on SM, all the power to them. No time slots needed. If the FP line is backed up, just come back later (although I've never seen this with other parks that use this system). I'm sure IT could make it so some rides, TSMM are limited to just one or are excluded from all of that. Pretty much, a six flags/Uni front of the line pass--doesn't Uni exclude HP? Then offsite guests could book virtually day of the same way FP- works. Onsite guests could also use FP the way offsite guests do once their pre-allotted FP+ run out.

I don't know...

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[cheesemouse]

5 for us. That would work well for us in all of the parks.

 

[kmarie99]

I like the thought of using the magic bands like the new Dumbo ride (sort of). You can swipe the bands at a ride, it will tell you how long your wait is, but instead of waiting in a queue to get on the ride you can roam around the park and come back at a specific time. You are not using a fast pass system since you are not given a one hour window, you are just in a 'virtual' line while you wait.

If we could do that 3 fp+ would be fine, even with the tiering.

 

[johde]

This is myth. This is not designed to give these people a chance. Actually it is going to hurt them more .. The casual visitor will be blindsided by the more savvy visitors weeks in advance. Disney doesn't care who has those slots, they just want vacations locked in an advance to keep off site guests at their parks and not wander off.

Less than 10,000 people a day get TSMM a fp. There are 10,000 people who show up everyday to DHS to grab those FP before 11:30. Every single day. Those same people will know to go online weeks in advance. The headliners will be gone before even showing up at the park.

Playing devils advocate for a minute. With tiering it has the possibility of giving the casual visitor a chance. As it stands now, those 10,000 people now need to choose between TSMM and RNR for their Tier 1 FP+ (along with a couple others that don't really matter). On most days there enough capacity for a FP on either ride. With no FP- and tiering, I think it's totally possible that there will still be same day FP+ available for TSMM later in the day than the current FP- system.

To the OP question, Most of the times I've traveled, I could make 3 FP+'s work for me. That being said, in it's current form I'd probably need to change my touring patterns especially during busy times.

 

[rebbyparker]

Playing devils advocate for a minute. With tiering it has the possibility of giving the casual visitor a chance. As it stands now, those 10,000 people now need to choose between TSMM and RNR for their Tier 1 FP+ (along with a couple others that don't really matter). On most days there enough capacity for a FP on either ride. With no FP- and tiering, I think it's totally possible that there will still be same day FP+ available for TSMM later in the day than the current FP- system.

To the OP question, Most of the times I've traveled, I could make 3 FP+'s work for me. That being said, in it's current form I'd probably need to change my touring patterns especially during busy times.

This is where all the anxiety comes in, at least for me, for now. The busier, upcoming holiday season. I get that no one is having any problems now, when the parks aren't crowded and they don't need any type of FP anyways. My biggest concern is when the crowd level is 10 across the parks and whatever form FP+/FP- test is in.

 

[Scott]

I keep reading post complaining about only 3 a day only one park.

How many do you really want?

I think 5 would be nice at any park.

Ok, I will play along. Give me 4. One that I can book in advance as a reward for staying on-site, and 3 that I can book via my mobile device in the park (no more having to send runners for FP's!).

Scott

 

[ArwenMarie]

2 for Epcot
2 for DHS
2 for AK
5 for MK

No tiers.

 

[Crystal824]

I am fine with three prebooked FastPass+ as long as once you are in the park you can book more while in the park in a similar fashion to how FP- work. For instance, if I booked the FP+ for Test Track at 3pm, Maelstrom at 5pm, and Soarin at 8pm. If I could also schedule other fastpasses when I arrived at say Magic Kingdom at 9am using similar rules to FP- where you can only have one booked at a time (not counting the prebooked FP+)

Of course, it probably won't work this way, and having tiers just complicates things further.

I like this.