How do i............?????

[mom2rtk]

OK, you guys have gotten me into the creative zones on my camera (canon Xsi). I've learned a lot about shutter speed and aperture. I am approaching new situations now with SOME idea of what I want to do and how to do it....

Track meet? Go shutter priority with a fast shutter speed (1/1000) and AI servo......

Close up of a flower? Aperture priority with a large aperture to accomplish a beautiful bokeh.

Dark ride at Disney? Use the 30mm/f1.4, go shutter priority for what I think I can hand hold, ISO 1600 (that's the best I can get) and EC of -1 or so (since you can recover some light in post, but you can't fix a blurry photo)


But to be honest, there are still some situations where for the life of me, I don't know what to do........ But we're heading out on vacation in a month and I'm still befuddled by some situations. So I'd like to throw some situations out there and see what you guys would do:

1)Scenery? I'm thinking Rocky Mountains, Grand Canyon and Arches national park. We've been before, but are going back through these areas. Can I guess that in most situations I'm going to want aperture priority with a fairly small aperture for a larger DOF (unless I'm specifically going for isolating something with a narrow DOF)........ Any other thoughts or considerations?

2) Sunset photos? My goal is to be at the Grand Canyon, and if it works, maybe at Delicate Arch at sunset. Do you meter the sun, the surrounding clouds? I'm guessing a smaller aperture to maximize DOF, but beyond that, I'm not sure........

3) Character photos? Although I have faster lenses now, I'm assuming I still want a fill flash. Unless I can pull the trigger on that Tamron 17-50 f2.8 before the trip, I'll probably still be using my kit lens for these. The widest fast lens I have is the 30mm (well, I'm not counting the Tokina here because I don't want to use that for the character shots) and I don't like that length for character shots. So assume I will be using the kit lens. I'm still a little lost on anything but program mode for flash shots.

4) various scenery around Disney: Castles, mountains, ships, etc...... Just go on the fly in auto for stuff like this? Some sort of average shutter priority setting? An aperture priority with a smaller aperture for a wider DOF?


I feel like I'm close to "pulling it all together"..... but just not there yet.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

One thing you could try is to practice before you go using the semi auto settings on your camera to see what "it" picks, until it becomes intuitive for you.

So for instance, on landscape photos, you probably want a deep depth of field, so you'd use a smaller aperture setting (higher number). See what the camera picks and practice on your own from there. (Of course there's nothing wrong with using the landscape mode for landscape shots, either. ) If you decide you want to get one object in focus with nice bokeh in the background of your landscape shot, you could change to Aperture Priority or even Portrait Mode, which will give you a similar effect. Ditto for sunset.

Characters will depend on the setting.

Auto setting? Eh. Somehow you don't sound like an Auto type of gal. Some people here recommend Program setting, while others shoot in Aperture Priority most of the time. It's a matter of personal preference. But once you leave Auto you need to be a little more creative about how you're going to get your shots, especially if there's low light, as Auto will usually make the flash fire.

But it sounds to me like you're on the right track. None of this happens overnight. No matter how much you prepare and try to think it through ahead of time, there's always some type of fly in the ointment once you get there and it's kind of overwhelming trying to deal with the realities of being at WDW while trying to get great pictures with a new dSLR. So my advice is to just roll with it as best you can and know there'll always be another trip where you'll be better at it than you were the last time. You'll still get plenty of nice pictures this time.

 

[mom2rtk]

One thing you could try is to practice before you go using the semi auto settings on your camera to see what "it" picks, until it becomes intuitive for you.

So for instance, on landscape photos, you probably want a deep depth of field, so you'd use a smaller aperture setting (higher number). See what the camera picks and practice on your own from there. (Of course there's nothing wrong with using the landscape mode for landscape shots, either. ) If you decide you want to get one object in focus with nice bokeh in the background of your landscape shot, you could change to Aperture Priority or even Portrait Mode, which will give you a similar effect. Ditto for sunset.

Characters will depend on the setting.

Auto setting? Eh. Somehow you don't sound like an Auto type of gal. Some people here recommend Program setting, while others shoot in Aperture Priority most of the time. It's a matter of personal preference. But once you leave Auto you need to be a little more creative about how you're going to get your shots, especially if there's low light, as Auto will usually make the flash fire.

But it sounds to me like you're on the right track. None of this happens overnight. No matter how much you prepare and try to think it through ahead of time, there's always some type of fly in the ointment once you get there and it's kind of overwhelming trying to deal with the realities of being at WDW while trying to get great pictures with a new dSLR. So my advice is to just roll with it as best you can and know there'll always be another trip where you'll be better at it than you were the last time. You'll still get plenty of nice pictures this time.

Orrrr....... I could look at my photos of the Grand Canyon and such from 5 years ago and see if I can learn anything from what the camera chose...... And of course I could go to the pros and study yet more settings on Flickr........ Thanks for the nudge!!

And by "automatic" I really meant Program (with automatic shutter speed and aperture selection). I have always liked choosing my own ISO and focal point!

Many thanks for your thoughts! I am hoping to step up the pace on this trip. I lost a few shots I should have had last fall because I was using new lenses and stepping into the creative zones more...... Some one recently posted a graphic of the phases of a photographer's life....... I laughed at the spot where the photo quality took a nose dive right after moving out of "auto"... I had a big laugh at (WITH) that........

 

[Steve's Girl]

1)Scenery? I'm thinking Rocky Mountains, Grand Canyon and Arches national park. We've been before, but are going back through these areas. Can I guess that in most situations I'm going to want aperture priority with a fairly small aperture for a larger DOF (unless I'm specifically going for isolating something with a narrow DOF)........ Any other thoughts or considerations?

You should look into getting a circular polarizer filter. That will help immensely with landscapes. During daytime, program mode works fine for landscapes. I do switch to A mode when I want to focus on something in the foreground and blur the background.

2) Sunset photos? My goal is to be at the Grand Canyon, and if it works, maybe at Delicate Arch at sunset. Do you meter the sun, the surrounding clouds? I'm guessing a smaller aperture to maximize DOF, but beyond that, I'm not sure........

Don't meter off the sun, but rather meter off what the sun is shining on. Does that make sense? Put your back to the sun, meter off where the sun is shining (a tree, hill,etc), lock your settings and then turn around and shoot.

3) Character photos? Although I have faster lenses now, I'm assuming I still want a fill flash. Unless I can pull the trigger on that Tamron 17-50 f2.8 before the trip, I'll probably still be using my kit lens for these. The widest fast lens I have is the 30mm (well, I'm not counting the Tokina here because I don't want to use that for the character shots) and I don't like that length for character shots. So assume I will be using the kit lens. I'm still a little lost on anything but program mode for flash shots.

Kit lens, program and flash is what I use. I try to keep it simple. You only have a few seconds to get these shots and I don't like to be fiddling with a bunch of settings.

4) various scenery around Disney: Castles, mountains, ships, etc...... Just go on the fly in auto for stuff like this? Some sort of average shutter priority setting? An aperture priority with a smaller aperture for a wider DOF?

Yep. Although I prefer program over auto. It still gives me some flexibility to adjust settings. May also benefit from a circular polarizer during the daytime.


I feel like I'm close to "pulling it all together"..... but just not there yet. Well, when you get there, fill me in. I'd like to know how you got there!

hope that helps!

 

[VVFF]

OK, you guys have gotten me into the creative zones on my camera (canon Xsi). I've learned a lot about shutter speed and aperture. I am approaching new situations now with SOME idea of what I want to do and how to do it....

Track meet? Go shutter priority with a fast shutter speed (1/1000) and AI servo......

Close up of a flower? Aperture priority with a large aperture to accomplish a beautiful bokeh.

Dark ride at Disney? Use the 30mm/f1.4, go shutter priority for what I think I can hand hold, ISO 1600 (that's the best I can get) and EC of -1 or so (since you can recover some light in post, but you can't fix a blurry photo)


But to be honest, there are still some situations where for the life of me, I don't know what to do........ But we're heading out on vacation in a month and I'm still befuddled by some situations. So I'd like to throw some situations out there and see what you guys would do:

1)Scenery? I'm thinking Rocky Mountains, Grand Canyon and Arches national park. We've been before, but are going back through these areas. Can I guess that in most situations I'm going to want aperture priority with a fairly small aperture for a larger DOF (unless I'm specifically going for isolating something with a narrow DOF)........ Any other thoughts or considerations?

2) Sunset photos? My goal is to be at the Grand Canyon, and if it works, maybe at Delicate Arch at sunset. Do you meter the sun, the surrounding clouds? I'm guessing a smaller aperture to maximize DOF, but beyond that, I'm not sure........

3) Character photos? Although I have faster lenses now, I'm assuming I still want a fill flash. Unless I can pull the trigger on that Tamron 17-50 f2.8 before the trip, I'll probably still be using my kit lens for these. The widest fast lens I have is the 30mm (well, I'm not counting the Tokina here because I don't want to use that for the character shots) and I don't like that length for character shots. So assume I will be using the kit lens. I'm still a little lost on anything but program mode for flash shots.

4) various scenery around Disney: Castles, mountains, ships, etc...... Just go on the fly in auto for stuff like this? Some sort of average shutter priority setting? An aperture priority with a smaller aperture for a wider DOF?


I feel like I'm close to "pulling it all together"..... but just not there yet.

First thing to note is there is more than one way to do something. For instance, in your track meet example I would probably use Av mode and select an aperture that got what I wanted in focus. This would likely be a very large aperture in the first place as I would normally be tracking one person so I would automatically get the best shutter speed possible. No sense in having your camera use a smaller aperture if its capable of going to a faster shutter speed for something like this.

For the flower example, depending on how close you are getting you may find a smaller aperture may work better. Using a 100mm Macro lens at 1:2 magnification if you use a F2.8 aperture you'll find that the outer petals are in focus but the inside of the flower is completely out of focus. This may be what you are going for but its often too much. It's not uncommon for my flower photos to use F7.1 or higher. On my last close up of a pine branch I used F16. It's just necessary as you get closer.

Now for your questions:

1)Scenery - Most likely Av mode. Provided I was at a fairly wide angle you can focus on something maybe halfway into your scene and use F7.1 and get everything in focus. There are some special considerations but in general I find F7.1 works fine around 17mm(28mm equivalent).

2)Sunset photos - Just set exposure compensation in Av mode to -1 or so...possibly more or less depending on effect. Otherwise, like night scenes the camera may try to overexpose the picture. If you have a subject in the picture that needs illuminating you need flash. Set exposure compensation to -1 or so and Flash exposure compensation to -2/3 or so.

3) Character shots - If shadows fall on your subjects faces use the flash in Av mode. The problem generally is that the flash needs to sync to the camera. The max shutter speed without a external flash capable of high speed sync is 1/250th(generally speaking). So, what you want to do is stop down the aperture until the shutter speed reaches this value or a bit slower. If you don't then you will blow out your background(it will be white). You may have to stop down to F7.1 or so on a particularly bright day.

4) Everything else - Again, some falls on personal preference, but generally Av mode will do what you want to do. The only exception would be if you are using a flash as your main light source. If you do this I would recommend manual mode(its not as bad as it seems).


Shutter speed priority mode is useful for me when using flash indoors as a fill to guarantee decent shutter speeds. Otherwise I rarely use it. If you use it indoors your lens will generally open as far as possible and the flash will fill in the rest.

 

[mom2rtk]

1)Scenery? I'm thinking Rocky Mountains, Grand Canyon and Arches national park. We've been before, but are going back through these areas. Can I guess that in most situations I'm going to want aperture priority with a fairly small aperture for a larger DOF (unless I'm specifically going for isolating something with a narrow DOF)........ Any other thoughts or considerations?

You should look into getting a circular polarizer filter. That will help immensely with landscapes. During daytime, program mode works fine for landscapes. I do switch to A mode when I want to focus on something in the foreground and blur the background.

2) Sunset photos? My goal is to be at the Grand Canyon, and if it works, maybe at Delicate Arch at sunset. Do you meter the sun, the surrounding clouds? I'm guessing a smaller aperture to maximize DOF, but beyond that, I'm not sure........

Don't meter off the sun, but rather meter off what the sun is shining on. Does that make sense? Put your back to the sun, meter off where the sun is shining (a tree, hill,etc), lock your settings and then turn around and shoot.

3) Character photos? Although I have faster lenses now, I'm assuming I still want a fill flash. Unless I can pull the trigger on that Tamron 17-50 f2.8 before the trip, I'll probably still be using my kit lens for these. The widest fast lens I have is the 30mm (well, I'm not counting the Tokina here because I don't want to use that for the character shots) and I don't like that length for character shots. So assume I will be using the kit lens. I'm still a little lost on anything but program mode for flash shots.

Kit lens, program and flash is what I use. I try to keep it simple. You only have a few seconds to get these shots and I don't like to be fiddling with a bunch of settings.

4) various scenery around Disney: Castles, mountains, ships, etc...... Just go on the fly in auto for stuff like this? Some sort of average shutter priority setting? An aperture priority with a smaller aperture for a wider DOF?

Yep. Although I prefer program over auto. It still gives me some flexibility to adjust settings. May also benefit from a circular polarizer during the daytime.


I feel like I'm close to "pulling it all together"..... but just not there yet. Well, when you get there, fill me in. I'd like to know how you got there!

Thanks Steve's Girl! I've seen you over on the disboutiquer thread. Been sewing anything lately?

The CP is a good idea. I had one several lenses ago, but I need to pull it out and see if it fits any of my current lenses, and maybe buy another one. Maybe I should take a moment to summarize what lenses I have available in case anyone has specific recommendations:

Kit lens 18-55IS/f3.5-5.6
Tamron 18-270VC/3.5-6.3
Sigma 30mm/f1.4
Canon 50mm/51.8
Tokina 11-16mm/f2.8
Sigma 50-150/f2.8

Thanks for the sunset metering tips! I had no idea!!

As for the character photos, kit lens on program mode is mostly what I do now. Anyone have thoughts on what ISO to use at an indoor character meal when using fill flash? It seems to me that sometimes the faces of my daughter and the face characters still seem underexposed. Maybe I need to try using some flash exposure compensation?

And sure, I'll let you know when I have it all pulled together.... you don't mind waiting a few years, do you?????

 

[Pea-n-Me]

First thing to note is there is more than one way to do something.

This can't be overstated.

 

[mom2rtk]

First thing to note is there is more than one way to do something. For instance, in your track meet example I would probably use Av mode and select an aperture that got what I wanted in focus. This would likely be a very large aperture in the first place as I would normally be tracking one person so I would automatically get the best shutter speed possible. No sense in having your camera use a smaller aperture if its capable of going to a faster shutter speed for something like this.

For the flower example, depending on how close you are getting you may find a smaller aperture may work better. Using a 100mm Macro lens at 1:2 magnification if you use a F2.8 aperture you'll find that the outer petals are in focus but the inside of the flower is completely out of focus. This may be what you are going for but its often too much. It's not uncommon for my flower photos to use F7.1 or higher. On my last close up of a pine branch I used F16. It's just necessary as you get closer.

Now for your questions:

1)Scenery - Most likely Av mode. Provided I was at a fairly wide angle you can focus on something maybe halfway into your scene and use F7.1 and get everything in focus. There are some special considerations but in general I find F7.1 works fine around 17mm(28mm equivalent).

2)Sunset photos - Just set exposure compensation in Av mode to -1 or so...possibly more or less depending on effect. Otherwise, like night scenes the camera may try to overexpose the picture. If you have a subject in the picture that needs illuminating you need flash. Set exposure compensation to -1 or so and Flash exposure compensation to -2/3 or so.

3) Character shots - If shadows fall on your subjects faces use the flash in Av mode. The problem generally is that the flash needs to sync to the camera. The max shutter speed without a external flash capable of high speed sync is 1/250th(generally speaking). So, what you want to do is stop down the aperture until the shutter speed reaches this value or a bit slower. If you don't then you will blow out your background(it will be white). You may have to stop down to F7.1 or so on a particularly bright day.

4) Everything else - Again, some falls on personal preference, but generally Av mode will do what you want to do. The only exception would be if you are using a flash as your main light source. If you do this I would recommend manual mode(its not as bad as it seems).


Shutter speed priority mode is useful for me when using flash indoors as a fill to guarantee decent shutter speeds. Otherwise I rarely use it. If you use it indoors your lens will generally open as far as possible and the flash will fill in the rest.

Thanks VVFF!

I think I was just using the really wider aperture because of my new 50-150 f2.8 lens... A kid with a new toy you know....... I took a picture of the same flower at various apertures up the range. It was really cool to see how the DOF changed.

Your sunset approach sound interesting too. Maybe I'll try both approaches!

I see what you're saying on the character shots. What ISO though? I'm guessing that's going to vary depending on the location and available sunlight? Maybe 200 outdoors? What about inside with a flash?

This can't be overstated.

I AM finally getting to the point where I can appreciate more than one approach and understand the advantages of both. Before it just frustrated me. Progress???? I guess we'll see......

 

[photo_chick]

I totally agree with VVFF that there is no one way to do something.

There are no default settings for a given situation. There are only preferences that individual photographers develop over time and those preferences can be vastly different.

The biggest thing is to remember that it takes time. Provided you already understand how an exposure is made, it takes time to get to know your camera and how it will react in a given situation with a given lens.

Going off the camera results is great if you don't understand how aperture and shutter speed affect your images, but it sounds like you already have a grasp on that. And really, that kind of shooting will only take you so far. Sooner or later you have to move to considering the desired results and what you need to do to get them. Then you use the camera information to determine what went wrong, rather than what went right.

My advice is to think about what you need to accomplish with the shots. Are you wanting to freeze action? Make sure all the subjects fall within the depth of field? Capture movement like fountains and fireworks? Push the camera to get the fastest shutter speed in low light? Those types of things. They will generally tell you how you need to approach the shot to get the results you want. And from your post it sounds like you are already on that road, just trust your instincts.

Also remember you're going to blow a lot of shots. There really is no way around that and you can't be timid about it. You just have to shoot.

 

[mom2rtk]

Do you guys use a CP on your UWA lenses?

I have the Tokina 11-16. I'm not exactly sure yet how I intend to use it in the scenery along the way, but I'm thinking I will.

In my mind I have a vision of using it creatively with some of the cool rock formations in Arches.

This is going to be fun. Last time we went west, my DLSR died at Disneyland and I had to shoot the scenic desert southwest with my point and shoot. It just didn't seem right.......... I haven't done that scrapbook yet, but plan to title it "Little Camera, Big World"........

 

[mom2rtk]

I totally agree with VVFF that there is no one way to do something.

There are no default settings for a given situation. There are only preferences that individual photographers develop over time and those preferences can be vastly different.

The biggest thing is to remember that it takes time. Provided you already understand how an exposure is made, it takes time to get to know your camera and how it will react in a given situation with a given lens.

Going off the camera results is great if you don't understand how aperture and shutter speed affect your images, but it sounds like you already have a grasp on that. And really, that kind of shooting will only take you so far. Sooner or later you have to move to considering the desired results and what you need to do to get them. Then you use the camera information to determine what went wrong, rather than what went right.

My advice is to think about what you need to accomplish with the shots. Are you wanting to freeze action? Make sure all the subjects fall within the depth of field? Capture movement like fountains and fireworks? Push the camera to get the fastest shutter speed in low light? Those types of things. They will generally tell you how you need to approach the shot to get the results you want. And from your post it sounds like you are already on that road, just trust your instincts.

Also remember you're going to blow a lot of shots. There really is no way around that and you can't be timid about it. You just have to shoot.

That all makes great sense. I think I'm at the point where I can decide what I want to accomplish, but the problem is that the little squirrels up in my brain can't run the wheels fast enough to translate it all into action on the fly. I think I'll do OK out in the national parks because I won't be rushed and can think about things for a few moments (well..... as long as the kids don't start with the "Come on Mom's"..............)

I think Disney is where I'll have more trouble. There's just SO much to do and there's typically not time to sit and contemplate the right settings.....

It really helps immensely though to hear it all talked out here.

Thanks and keep the thoughts coming! Although there is no one right approach, it helps a lot to hear everyone's thoughts on different ones!

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Going off the camera results is great if you don't understand how aperture and shutter speed affect your images, but it sounds like you already have a grasp on that.

She indicated she's a beginner and is looking for help in learning how it all goes together, so I wouldn't say she's already got a grasp on it.

Seeing what the camera chooses is indeed a good way to learn because (for those who may not know this) settings are predetermined by camera engineers in order to help those who may not be so inclined to learn settings on their own still get beautiful photos using those settings. In this case, it's a learning *tool*, one among the many I'm sure mom2 is using.

And really, that kind of shooting will only take you so far. Sooner or later you have to move to considering the desired results and what you need to do to get them. Then you use the camera information to determine what went wrong, rather than what went right.

Where's the rush?

 

[mom2rtk]

Honestly, I can appreciate both approaches. There are a lot of good pictures in my history I can look back at and want to see WHY I got a good photo. Likewise, there are plenty of ..... shall we say..... "not so stellar" ones I could learn from too!

I'm not a beginner, but not accomplished by any means. I've had a DSLR for almost 6 years, but rarely moved out of program mode until about 6 months ago. I consider myself decent at composition and creativity, but probably just a step beyond a beginner technically.

Really, I just want to learn more. You won't insult me by putting beginner tips out there, nor will you likely overwhelm me with more advanced stuff.

Clear as mud??????

 

[Steve's Girl]

I see what you're saying on the character shots. What ISO though? I'm guessing that's going to vary depending on the location and available sunlight? Maybe 200 outdoors? What about inside with a flash?

I use ISO 800 inside. I'm not too worried about noise since I don't make huge prints of those photos. I use the higher ISO so I can better balance the ambiant light with the flash and get a more natural looking photo rather than the deer in the headlights blast of flash! I use ISO 200 outside with balanced fill flash.

 

[VVFF]

Thanks VVFF!

I think I was just using the really wider aperture because of my new 50-150 f2.8 lens... A kid with a new toy you know....... I took a picture of the same flower at various apertures up the range. It was really cool to see how the DOF changed.

Your sunset approach sound interesting too. Maybe I'll try both approaches!

I see what you're saying on the character shots. What ISO though? I'm guessing that's going to vary depending on the location and available sunlight? Maybe 200 outdoors? What about inside with a flash?



I AM finally getting to the point where I can appreciate more than one approach and understand the advantages of both. Before it just frustrated me. Progress???? I guess we'll see......

Because of the issue I mentioned earlier with flash sync speed you'll want to keep your ISO as low as possible on bright days when using fill flash. If you increase ISO you will have to use a smaller aperture which isn't typically what you want to do.

 

[photo_chick]

She indicated she's a beginner and is looking for help in learning how it all goes together, so I wouldn't say she's already got a grasp on it.

Seeing what the camera chooses is indeed a good way to learn because (for those who may not know this) settings are predetermined by camera engineers in order to help those who may not be so inclined to learn settings on their own still get beautiful photos using those settings. In this case, it's a learning *tool*, one among the many I'm sure mom2 is using.


Where's the rush?

Her initial post told me enough to know that she has a basic grasp on what things do. I'm not saying technically proficient, but the person who wrote that post has some idea how things work together. Enough to take a step forward.

Going off the camera settings... I was trying to be polite. It's generally regarded, at least where I went to school and by people I've worked with, as stabbing in the dark and not the best way to learn. Yes, you can get an idea of what settings do what. But it doesn't tell you why. And understanding both how and why is really the key to becoming technically proficient. But people learn by what tools are available and if that's all that is available it's better than nothing. It does give you a starting point.

But hey, to each his own. We've all got our own philosophies. Obviously yours is different from mine.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

Going off the camera settings... I was trying to be polite. It's generally regarded, at least where I went to school and by people I've worked with, as stabbing in the dark and not the best way to learn. Yes, you can get an idea of what settings do what. But it doesn't tell you why. And understanding both how and why is really the key to becoming technically proficient. But people learn by what tools are available and if that's all that is available it's better than nothing. It does give you a starting point.

Wow.

Mom2, if you wonder why there sometimes aren't a lot of responses on threads looking for help, posts like this will help you understand why.

 

[mom2rtk]

 

[photo_chick]

Pea-N-me ... Gee you really put me in my place with that motie.

Seriously though, I'm not trying to be snobby, snooty or even snotty... just being honest. Like I said, different philosophies. And I'll leave it at that.

 

[ssanders79]

Check out Understanding Exposure by Bryan Peterson. It is a quick read and full of great information. I wish I read this years ago as I am just finishing it up for the first time before it is due back to the library.