How Can Parents Be So Clueless?

[pacrosby]

If I see your or anyone else's children alone in a vehicle, I will definitely call the authorities. Then at that point I would be happy to leave you alone to discuss your parenting choices with the responding officers. A warning though, the officer may not agree with you and might even choose to take action that you most definitely don't agree with.

Just curious....would you call as soon as you noticed the child or would you wait 5 or 10 minutes first? Would you try to engage said child in a discussion (if it would be possible to do so without scaring them) to see what the situation was before you called or just assume the worst and call asap? Is there a cut off age at which you would actually decide it's not a federal offense (8, 9, 11) or does it really not matter (beyond the obvious...obviously)?

Would you do so if traveling in Massachusetts and saw it happen? Because, in MA, as I believe it's already been mentioned, it's NOT against the law. Have you researched the laws in all states so that you know when you have the right to risk being a busy body vs. when you do not?


Just for the record I'm not for leaving infants, toddlers and preschoolers unattended in a car (with the one exception of when someone will be in and out in less than 2-3 minutes and can see the car the whole time). Nor am I in support of leaving an early elementary school aged child (5,6 or 7) in a car alone for more than 10-15 minutes or so. But anyone who possesses this extreme point of view that " there should be NO child ANYwhere left in ANY car for ANY length of time for ANY reason and therefore if I see one I will do my civic duty and call the poiice so that they will be punished by the law" translates into nothing more than a holier-than-thou busy body who needs to spend more time worrying about their own life than the lives of others.

OK...I feel better now. Play on

 

[mandynee22]

Just curious....would you call as soon as you noticed the child or would you wait 5 or 10 minutes first? Would you try to engage said child in a discussion to see what the situation was before you called or just assume the worst and call asap? Is there a cut off age at which you would decide it's ok (8, 9, 11) or does it not matter (beyone the obvious...obviously)?

Would you do so if traveling in Massachusettsw and you saw it happen? Because, in MA it's NOT against the law. Have you researched the laws in all states so that you know when you have the right to risk being a busy body vs. when you do not?


Just for the record I'm not for leaving infants, toddlers and preschoolers unattended in a car (with the one exception of someplace where I will be in and out in less than 2-3 minutes and can see the car the whole time). Nor am I in support of leaving an early elementary school aged child (5,6 or 7) in a car alone for more than 10-15 minutes or so. But this extreme point of view that "NO child should be left in ANY car for ANY length of time regardless or the circumstances or you will do your civic duty and call the poiice" translates into nothing more than a holier than thou busy body who needs to spend more time worrying about their own life than the life of others.

OK...I feeel better now. Play on

This reminds me of something recently in the police report. Someone called the police because 2 kids were in a car unattended at the grocery store. Cops came. Determined the oldest was 11 and the AC was on and they were fine. Cops left.
If it bothers you, wait a few minutes. Chances are the parent can see you from where they are. Chances are, they'll be right back. Organize your change cup while you wait LOL If that isn't the case and you feel the need to call then call and move on when they get there. Otherwise, the only reason not to really seems a lot like "Look how much awesomer I am than you"
And I think people seem to be missing the whole not illegal thing

 

[PrincessTiffany]

Ummmm...the other poster asked if she meant that a 5 yo should be able to drive a car. You said 'yes, that's what she meant". Whether or not you think she is a kook and disagree with her parenting style is not the point. She didn't mean that a 5 yr old should be able to navigate the pkg lot while driving in a car.

As I see it, there seems to be a heck of a lot of judging going on from both sides

Well, if you will reread my post, I didn't comment about the child being able to drive a car. The poster asked nchulk if she was joking in her absurb posts and I indicated that nchulka was NOT joking. If you took the time to read nchulka's previous posts you would see where the judment comes in.

 

[PrincessTiffany]

This reminds me of something recently in the police report. Someone called the police because 2 kids were in a car unattended at the grocery store. Cops came. Determined the oldest was 11 and the AC was on and they were fine. Cops left.
If it bothers you, wait a few minutes. Chances are the parent can see you from where they are. Chances are, they'll be right back. Organize your change cup while you wait LOL If that isn't the case and you feel the need to call then call and move on when they get there. Otherwise, the only reason not to really seems a lot like "Look how much awesomer I am than you"
And I think people seem to be missing the whole not illegal thing

In the state of Alabama the situation the OP posted about would be considered illegal, a misdemeanor, but illegal. The case in which the OP wrote about the child was 5. 5 years old, not 11. Big difference.

Get a grip people. Use the common sense God gave you. It's not okay to leave a 5 year old alone in a running car in the grocery store parking lot for more than 15 minutes. Excusing this behavior is almost as bad as the behavior.

 

[YO's Mom]

For those of you who think 5 year olds are "mature" enough to be alone:

http://video.foxnews.com/v/12403678...ls-911/?playlist_id=161697&intcmp=sem_outloud

Listen to the little girl's voice. Can you hear the fear?

 

[Tramp68]

I guess you did not read the entire first post - the car was left running, with a child inside. That is not only illegal in the state of Massachusetts, it's incredibly stupid and dangerous. Did you read the part about how a person just stole a truck that was left running outside a dentist office, with a 7 yr old girl asleep in the back seat?

Autostarts allow the car to run with the doors locked and no key in the ignition. As soon as someone steps on the brake to put the car in gear the car shuts off.

So, this is no more stupid or dangerous than leaving the child alone in a locked car that is not running.

Have you read about the part where children are snatched right out their parent's grasp? Yes it does happen. If someone is so bold as to smash a window in a parking lot to steal a child or a car they will do it regardless.

I have left my child in a running car (using autostart with keys in my hand) doors locked and window cracked slightly. I give my son a spare cell phone, which he knows how to use and I do my errand as quick as possible.

I would never do this to a sleeping child though...way too scary for them to wake up to noone in the car.

 

[Tramp68]

Right or wrong what you did was try to impress upon the mom that the child was not safe. Any child in a running vehicle unattended is dangerous!!!!! Too many times a child will get in the driver's seat and decide to "play" driving..I know, I lost a little cousin due to his playing in the car. I am a mandated reporter and I know if I saw no police in the area I would have called for someone. Also, I would have been sure to take the license plate number just in case the driver came out of the store..

Remote start eliminates this danger

 

[Tramp68]

Has anyone noticed that Disney rules allow children age 7 and up to be unattended in the parks? (not that I agree with this)

Should we all get on Disney's case?

 

[ppony]

Goes to show "well educated" and common sense are far from the same thing!!!

Scares the ____ out of me that someone can possibly think leaving a young child in a running car is a matter of parenting style and not a VERY REAL danger!
My brother was in my grandpas car when he was about 4-ish (back in the mid 70s). It wasn't running, but he somehow got it out of park and it rolled down the street into a tree! Everyone was very lucky!

 

[ccgirl]

I know perfectly well what she meant, I've been reading her crazy post here on the Dis for a while. If you will look at her other posts here, the majority are about her "free range" parenting and the judging of everyone else's parenting skills. No, I did not misundertand.

Here's the thing...you are doing the same thing. You are calling her names (crazy posts) and judging her parenting skills (free range). Why can't people understand that criticizing and judging others because their way is "different" makes them no better than anyone else???

Parenting a different way is not wrong. It may be wrong for you but it is not wrong. Some people are more/less protective than others. Some think it is dangerous to be over/under protective. Bottom line, if you raise your child and they are a positive contributing member of society then, IMHO, you are doing your job.

 

[PrincessTiffany]

Here's the thing...you are doing the same thing. You are calling her names (crazy posts) and judging her parenting skills (free range). Why can't people understand that criticizing and judging others because their way is "different" makes them no better than anyone else???

Parenting a different way is not wrong. It may be wrong for you but it is not wrong. Some people are more/less protective than others. Some think it is dangerous to be over/under protective. Bottom line, if you raise your child and they are a positive contributing member of society then, IMHO, you are doing your job.

Again, if you have read her earlier posts, you will see that she often ADVOCATES for putting children in dangerous situations because it teaches them good lessons and gets them ready for the real world. SHE defines her parenting as free range, I did not come up with that term. In fact, I had never heard that term until she talked about it here on the Dis.

I'm sorry, but anyone who advocates for this style of parenting is wrong. It is dangerous, and it is wrong. Period. I pray to God that her children can overcome the crazy situations she has and will continue to put them in and that they will in fact be able to become productive citizens in spite of their mother.

 

[ccgirl]

Again, if you have read her earlier posts, you will see that she often ADVOCATES for putting children in dangerous situations because it teaches them good lessons and gets them ready for the real world. SHE defines her parenting as free range, I did not come up with that term. In fact, I had never heard that term until she talked about it here on the Dis.

I'm sorry, but anyone who advocates for this style of parenting is wrong. It is dangerous, and it is wrong. Period. I pray to God that her children can overcome the crazy situations she has and will continue to put them in and that they will in fact be able to become productive citizens in spite of their mother.

I tried to search but couldn't find any of the posts. I found posts which she contributed to but none on free range parenting. Guess I will search for free range parenting and see if I can find it. You may feel it is wrong but it is not wrong because you say so. Has she had her children do anything illegal?

 

[wmharley]

I came out of the grocery store today and parked in front of my car was a high end car (not that it really matters what kind of car it was) RUNNING, wipers going, with a little girl and a small dog in the front seat. I was stunned. As luck would have it there was a local police cruiser in the parking lot. He approached the girl, found out her name, age, 5, and the fact that her mother was in the store. So we waited and waited. Roughly 15-20 minutes later out walks the mother. She wasn't even concerned that the police were at her car. To make a long story short, I had some not so kind words for her. She in turn told me to mind my own business numerous times, waving her hand in my face and so on. I guess I was a little stunned. I am sure nothing will happen to her, but the woman really needs some parenting tips.

To top it off, also today in a separate town, a car was stolen with a sleeping child in it. Apparently, the carjacker had second thoughts because that child is fine.

Okay, let me have it. Should I have gone on my merry way without contacting the police? Who else would have stuck their nose in the situation?
Any men out there who would have done the same?

This happened to me at Publix. a lady left her 8-10yo (found out 10yo) and an infant in tha car when she went in. I'd say she was there 5-10 minutes, and isn't in a spot visible from the front door. I called the cops, had choice words for the clueless lady.

The cops tried to contact me, but we played voicemail tag and I don't know what ever happened.

 

[PrincessTiffany]

I tried to search but couldn't find any of the posts. I found posts which she contributed to but none on free range parenting. Guess I will search for free range parenting and see if I can find it. You may feel it is wrong but it is not wrong because you say so. Has she had her children do anything illegal?

Here's one for you, in which she calls herself a "free-range" parent, first one I pulled up in the search:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=37629175#post37629175

I guess you can check all the facts of her others posts, you apparently thought I made up, and you can decide for yourself if her parenting style is dangerous. But, personally, when someone posts on here that she chooses to put her children in situations that others probably would not choose to and would probably deem unfit, so she can teach them "life lessons", that sends up a red flag for me.

 

[Hooked On The Mouse]

I would have called the cops and then left once they got there. If they determine that there is no law against leaving a 5 year old in a running car by herself, then no harm done. I would never say anything to the parent because no good can come of doing so for any of the people involved.

 

[ccgirl]

Here's one for you, in which she calls herself a "free-range" parent, first one I pulled up in the search:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=37629175#post37629175

I guess you can check all the facts of her others posts, you apparently thought I made up, and you can decide for yourself if her parenting style is dangerous. But, personally, when someone posts on here that she chooses to put her children in situations that others probably would not choose to and would probably deem unfit, so she can teach them "life lessons", that sends up a red flag for me.

I didn't think you made it up. I think what one feels is "dangerous" is not necessarily dangerous for another. I didn't deem anything unfit about that post. She was talking about her letting her 6 year old brown hamburg while other parents of 6 year olds teach them the stove is too hot to go near. She does seem judgemental about others as well. Personally, I just believe we all choose to parent the way we see is best. We need to jump off our soap box and stop criticizing others because they think differently than us. A good friend of mine, a teacher, says "I don't do anything for my kids they can do themselves." I agree with that. If someone else doesn't. That is their preroogative. It doesn't make either of us right or wrong. My children are taught to say hello to everyone, even strangers. Some might not think that is right. They are also taught not to go anywhere with a stranger.

 

[pacrosby]

Well, if you will reread my post, I didn't comment about the child being able to drive a car. The poster asked nchulk if she was joking in her absurb posts and I indicated that nchulka was NOT joking. If you took the time to read nchulka's previous posts you would see where the judment comes in.

I actually did read all of nchulka's posts and the post in question that you replied to. As I read it that poster was specifically alarmed because she thought nchulka was saying that a child should be able to navigate the pkg lot as a driver of the car. That was why she asked "is this a joke". Go back and read post #67.

Anyway...what does it really matter You clearly have issues with this poster. So be it. I'm not sure that her "free range parenting" has her led her too far into left field with regards to this topic though. Maybe alittle bit.....but not too far. I also believe many are alittle overboard in their opinions on this. As it's been pointed out many times....it's not a crime to leave a 5 yo in a car unattended in Massachusetts (which is where this incident took place)

 

[PrincessTiffany]

I didn't think you made it up. I think what one feels is "dangerous" is not necessarily dangerous for another. I didn't deem anything unfit about that post. She was talking about her letting her 6 year old brown hamburg while other parents of 6 year olds teach them the stove is too hot to go near. She does seem judgemental about others as well. Personally, I just believe we all choose to parent the way we see is best. We need to jump off our soap box and stop criticizing others because they think differently than us. A good friend of mine, a teacher, says "I don't do anything for my kids they can do themselves." I agree with that. If someone else doesn't. That is their preroogative. It doesn't make either of us right or wrong. My children are taught to say hello to everyone, even strangers. Some might not think that is right. They are also taught not to go anywhere with a stranger.

That was posted when she first joined and I linked it to show that she calls herself a free range parent. You would need to read her many, many other posts to get the whole picture of her questionable parenting style. And you defending her bad judgment by calling it a personal parenting style is your choice, but, in reality, it's clearly something else. I don't usually get all caught up in judging others parenting styles, but do, apparently get sucked into these threads sometimes, but her posts ALWAYS catch my eye, there's something just not right.

 

[Wadecool]

Just curious....1) would you call as soon as you noticed the child or would you wait 5 or 10 minutes first? 2) Would you try to engage said child in a discussion (if it would be possible to do so without scaring them) to see what the situation was before you called or just assume the worst and call asap? 3) Is there a cut off age at which you would actually decide it's not a federal offense (8, 9, 11) or does it really not matter (beyond the obvious...obviously)?

4) Would you do so if traveling in Massachusetts and saw it happen? Because, in MA, as I believe it's already been mentioned, it's NOT against the law. 5) Have you researched the laws in all states so that you know when you have the right to risk being a busy body vs. when you do not?


Just for the record I'm not for leaving infants, toddlers and preschoolers unattended in a car (with the one exception of when someone will be in and out in less than 2-3 minutes and can see the car the whole time). Nor am I in support of leaving an early elementary school aged child (5,6 or 7) in a car alone for more than 10-15 minutes or so. But anyone who possesses this extreme point of view that " there should be NO child ANYwhere left in ANY car for ANY length of time for ANY reason and therefore if I see one I will do my civic duty and call the poiice so that they will be punished by the law" translates into nothing more than a holier-than-thou busy body who needs to spend more time worrying about their own life than the lives of others.

OK...I feel better now. Play on

No problem, I'm happy to assuage your curiosity. You've asked several questions here, so let's take them one by one.

1) I would call as soon as I saw the child alone in the car. It is not my job to investigate or try and wait around to see if and when the parent returns to the vehicle. That is the job of the police officers, I would simply contact them and let them take it from there.

2) As referenced above, it is not my job to attempt contact with the child alone in the car to assess the situation, but I can certainly contact the authorities and let them take care of that.

3) That is a tough one but I think you are pretty well on target (8, 9, 11).

4) If I were anywhere, including MA, I would call the authorities if I saw a child in an unattended vehicle. Although MA may not have a law which specifically spells it out, all states including MA have child endangerment laws. It would be up to the responding officers as to whether those laws apply in this case. Maybe they brush it off, and maybe they don't.

5) All states have some form of child endangerment laws, even MA.

With regard to the last part in bold, you are certainly entitled to your own personal opinion, but that is ultimately all it is. Hopefully, there are enough people in the world who would do the right thing and not just walk on by doing nothing.

Play on.

 

[Scarlett81]

Ok, ok...
As a NYPD family member, I would have called the police for sure, and said something to the child or the woman. But as soon as they were there-I'm outta there.
The public is law enforcement's best friend. But it can be much worse when they get in the way.