How about points for tickets

[lehrsj]

The longer the DVC resorts stay closed the system becomes more unbalanced and there aren’t enough rooms to cover all the points that users own. One solution I see is that DVC do a “Disney world tickets for points” trade. I would see these tickets being good for at least 3 years. I would also see possible blackout periods but skip all the “different dates different ticket price” complexity.

Someone who can’t reschedule could turn in his points for future tickets.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Parks are an entirely different division and DVC would have to actively pay parks for the tickets, which would require using those points to have rooms for cash bookings. So the lack of units becomes an ongoing factor.

 

[drusba]

Not likely to happen even if DVC were considering alternatives to the shut down of rooms. Under the POS and applicable contracts, what you purchase and own is a real estate interest in a condominium. Points are designated to be merely symbols of the real estate interest you own and to have no value. Because of that, the documents also declare that points cannot be transferred for value.

To adopt an exchange where members could trade points for park tickets would have DVC giving monetary value to the the points in such a trade in violation of the POS documents, and DVC, consistent with the POS documents, never wants to do anything to concede that points actually have monetary value, e.g., it is well aware that members transfer points for value; one way DVC avoids ever being sued if it screws up such a transfer is that no injured party could assert any money lost in the deal between the members was recoverable from DVC because legally the points have no value.

 

[we"reofftoneverland]

well, I liked the idea.

 

[Deano45m]

I would like to see them give discounts on rooms for the Members that had to reschedule. There are always 1, 2 & 3 bedrooms opens. Let them go for a rate comparable to what you had scheduled for your cancelled trip.

 

[CarolMN]

I haven't read any proposed "solution" to lost points that doesn't involve Disney paying for it.** Can't see that happening. Disney has its own problems with lost revenue due to closings.

** Only exception is the proposal to just to let everyone bank points twice or beyond the banking deadline. Of course that will severely impact availability for the entire membership.

 

[bumbershoot]

I like the idea even if it can’t happen.

There are always 1, 2 & 3 bedrooms opens.

there aren’t *always* rooms available. If there were always a supply of those I would have stayed at a different resort for Princess. SSR never opened back up after 7 months, and even OKW closed up after a certain point.

 

[zavandor]

Not likely to happen even if DVC were considering alternatives to the shut down of rooms. Under the POS and applicable contracts, what you purchase and own is a real estate interest in a condominium. Points are designated to be merely symbols of the real estate interest you own and to have no value. Because of that, the documents also declare that points cannot be transferred for value.

To adopt an exchange where members could trade points for park tickets would have DVC giving monetary value to the the points in such a trade in violation of the POS documents, and DVC, consistent with the POS documents, never wants to do anything to concede that points actually have monetary value, e.g., it is well aware that members transfer points for value; one way DVC avoids ever being sued if it screws up such a transfer is that no injured party could assert any money lost in the deal between the members was recoverable from DVC because legally the points have no value.

But direct owners and the earliest resale can exchange points for cruises and ABD, isn't it similar? They exchange the points for something that has no correlation to a real estate interest. RCI exchanges fit in that rule (two owners exchanging their weeks), cruises don'.
Just for fun: Disney values points around $7-8 for exchanges like cruises or ABD.
So what about buying a one day ticket for 15 points? Or an annual pass for 100 points. Who would buy those?
I wouldn't do it normally, but better than losing them.

I haven't read any proposed "solution" to lost points that doesn't involve Disney paying for it.** Can't see that happening. Disney has its own problems with lost revenue due to closings.

** Only exception is the proposal to just to let everyone bank points twice or beyond the banking deadline. Of course that will severely impact availability for the entire membership.

What if we can bank indefinitely? I own a Timeshare where points expire after 5 years and you can borrow another year, so you can use 6 years of points for one booking and I cannot see major issues. Actually we do not even bank, in that system, points just expire after 5 years and you can use them whenever you want.
If they let us bank forever*, the excess of points created by the current situation would simple be reabsorbed by the lockoff premium over time. Maybe someone won't be able to book next year because of the surge, but they'd just have to skip a year and use more points the next or the year after. No one would lose a point.
Of course there are 0 chances of this happening. Disney like the lockoff premium and lost points because they generate extra revenue for them via breakage. That's why we can only bank once, higher chances of wasting points.

* I know banking indefinitely can create a problem when resorts near the end of life. They would just have to ramp down the amount of points you can bank in the final years. For example, 10 years to go you can only bank 5x the points you own, in year nine only 4,5x and so on.

 

[Sandisw]

But direct owners and the earliest resale can exchange points for cruises and ABD, isn't it similar? They exchange the points for something that has no correlation to a real estate interest. RCI exchanges fit in that rule (two owners exchanging their weeks), cruises don'.
Just for fun: Disney values points around $7-8 for exchanges like cruises or ABD.
So what about buying a one day ticket for 15 points? Or an annual pass for 100 points. Who would buy those?
I wouldn't do it normally, but better than losing them.




What if we can bank indefinitely? I own a Timeshare where points expire after 5 years and you can borrow another year, so you can use 6 years of points for one booking and I cannot see major issues. Actually we do not even bank, in that system, points just expire after 5 years and you can use them whenever you want.
If they let us bank forever*, the excess of points created by the current situation would simple be reabsorbed by the lockoff premium over time. Maybe someone won't be able to book next year because of the surge, but they'd just have to skip a year and use more points the next or the year after. No one would lose a point.
Of course there are 0 chances of this happening. Disney like the lockoff premium and lost points because they generate extra revenue for them via breakage. That's why we can only bank once, higher chances of wasting points.

* I know banking indefinitely can create a problem when resorts near the end of life. They would just have to ramp down the amount of points you can bank in the final years. For example, 10 years to go you can only bank 5x the points you own, in year nine only 4,5x and so on.

When members exchange points for cruises, etc., what is really happening is that DVC gives Disney a room worth those points to rent for cash and then take that cash to pay for the cruise.

If you now have members using points to buy tickets, then you have more rooms coming out of inventory to cover the cost. Right now, people don’t use the Disney collection because its value isn’t there, So, the number of rooms being sent remains relatively low in comparison to the number of rooms in the system.

Offering people the option for tickets would increase the number of rooms needing to be released because I’d bet more people would want to take that option,

Can you imagine if they did this only for those whose points expired and not others? It’d cause outrage.

As difficult as this is, I’d like them to consider options that stay as close to the rules as possible so the system doesn’t suffer long term, even though we will have owners who in the short term may suffer, including me.

 

[zavandor]

When members exchange points for cruises, etc., what is really happening is that DVC gives Disney a room worth those points to rent for cash and then take that cash to pay for the cruise.

If you now have members using points to buy tickets, then you have more rooms coming out of inventory to cover the cost. Right now, people don’t use the Disney collection because its value isn’t there, So, the number of rooms being sent remains relatively low in comparison to the number of rooms in the system.

Offering people the option for tickets would increase the number of rooms needing to be released because I’d bet more people would want to take that option,

Can you imagine if they did this only for those whose points expired and not others? It’d cause outrage.

As difficult as this is, I’d like them to consider options that stay as close to the rules as possible so the system doesn’t suffer long term, even though we will have owners who in the short term may suffer, including me.

I agree with you that this is not going to happen. However my reply was about the legality of it, not the convenience for Disney. Someone can currently exchange points for a cruise at a rate of about $7pp. It would be similar for tickets. And it would still be much better to rent the points and buy the tickets with cash.

 

[mamaofsix]

Maybe tickets can't be officially "exchanged" for points, but I can definitely see Disney doing this as a complimentary gift to ease ruffled feathers from lost points.

When DVC was first for sale, they were giving away free park tickets with your purchase as an incentive. Heck, Disney was giving away free tickets to those who didn't get to ride Rise of the Resistance with their boarding passes only a month or two ago.

I think it would need to be very targeted, though. For example: a 7 day pass to only those owners / families who actually lost banked points from 2019 that have now expired and can't be carried forward to a future trip.

 

[Grumpy by Birth]

And it would still be much better to rent the points and buy the tickets with cash.

You avoid the poor "exchange rate" going that route, but some previously unforeseen risks with renting have just emerged. This might make folks re-think conventional wisdom with regards to renting vs. trading into cruises, etc.

 

[Sandisw]

Maybe tickets can't be officially "exchanged" for points, but I can definitely see Disney doing this as a complimentary gift to ease ruffled feathers from lost points.

When DVC was first for sale, they were giving away free park tickets with your purchase as an incentive. Heck, Disney was giving away free tickets to those who didn't get to ride Rise of the Resistance with their boarding passes only a month or two ago.

I think it would need to be very targeted, though. For example: a 7 day pass to only those owners / families who actually lost banked points from 2019 that have now expired and can't be carried forward to a future trip.

So only those losing resort closure? But again, if this was offered, understand it would not be from Disney. DVC...owners...would have to pay for it.

When tickets were offered with purchase, it was part of the sales program. You are not talking that. You are suggesting Disney bail out DVC Members for free,

Now, if DVC negotiates that with Disney, that might be great for those members, but the membership as a whole would be responsible for that remedy.

 

[TraderSamWDW]

Are DVD (and DVC) business units that are entirely owned by Disney?

 

[Sandisw]

Are DVD (and DVC) business units that are entirely owned by Disney?

DVD is Disney’s development. DVC is the management arm to oversee the operations of the DVC resorts,

So, yes, DVD is the arm of Disney tasked with development. But, DVC is in essence owners,

We contract with Disney to provide operations of the resorts, etc. but they are in no way responsible for any issues DVC has.

As owners, we agree to allow DVCM to oversee and run things without a vote, including choosing board of directors Each unit in the resort gets one vote and the only way for owners of a unit to control that..if I understand correctly...is 60% of the owners of that one unit become involved.

 

[mamaofsix]

So only those losing resort closure? But again, if this was offered, understand it would not be from Disney. DVC...owners...would have to pay for it.

When tickets were offered with purchase, it was part of the sales program. You are not talking that. You are suggesting Disney bail out DVC Members for free,

Now, if DVC negotiates that with Disney, that might be great for those members, but the membership as a whole would be responsible for that remedy.

No, I'm not suggesting Disney bail out DVC members for free. I'm suggesting that Disney offer a gift to only those members who cannot use their 2019 banked points - points owners lost through no fault of their own because Disney is closed.

 

[Sandisw]

No, I'm not suggesting Disney bail out DVC members for free. I'm suggesting that Disney offer a gift to only those members who cannot use their 2019 banked points - points owners lost through no fault of their own because Disney is closed.

DVCM has the authority to close the resorts under emergency powers and Disney has no obligation to reimburse DVC for any of its losses.

So, it comes down to what is legal, That is how I approach it. I wouldn’t expect Disney, giving their own loses to do it, not to mention I understood that when I bought,

I expect, as an owner, to see the membership absorb whatever decisions are made for members...short and long term.

 

[FreeTime]

I will likely lose points as a result of this. I may be in the minority but I absolutely do not want to see Disney “make this right” as their solution will most likely be detrimental to me. Be it higher dues or lack of availability. I purchased with the understanding of what I was buying. It was a risk. There is no reason for them to bail us members out. I don’t think they need to create goodwill. This is not their fault and should not be a costly measure passed onto us.

 

[lehrsj]

When I made this suggestion I had no thought of our dues paying for the tickets. That shouldn’t happen. And I knew it would be pointed out that the DVC company is different than the theme park company. My thought is the theme park company should provide the tickets for free. Consider it good will. Consider that the DVC member are a big ticket purchaser. Make it right.

 

[Chuck S]

My thought is the theme park company should provide the tickets for free.

Surely you jest. Each operating company is responsible for their profit. Theme parks are spending a ton of money on new attractions already. They aren't going to be inclined to give free tickets. Heck, even us early purchasers that got free tickets they were paid for by Disney Vacation Development, they weren't free from Disney Parks.