Horizons: Was it Worth Saving?

[HorizonsFan]

I never said I was the "true Disney fan".
I think an updated Horizons and WOM would have generated more riders.
I'm not against new attractions. I love Test Track and can't wait for MS.
Bob, why does the fact that we think Horizons should still exist make you so angry?

 

[Sleeping Beauty]

Opps - my wife logged in last time under Sleeping Beauty and it should say King Triton instead. sorry. This is King Triton speaking

Horizons, I think Bob was referring to me. I too don't understand Bob getting angry over Horizons. If you don't like Horizons, then go ride Test track. It's no big deal. (Hey Bob, if they did have Horizons and World of Motion, then you wouldn't have to wait so long in line for Test Track. LOL!!)

Bob simply prefers rollercoaster "thrill" type rides instead. That is his personal taste. That's cool. Bob, you are one of the few people I know of who didn't like Horizons. I would say you would have a better time going to Universal Studios instead. That is your cup of tea. I bet you if you took a survey of TRUE DISNEY FANS that you would see a demand to bring Horizons back. When the topic of "Why did they remove Horizons" keeps popping up at every Disney pin meet I attend, then it makes you realize how much that ride is missed. TRUE DISNEY FANS understand what makes Disney different from the rest. Why can't we have both types of rides?? I do agree 100% that keeping or having an updated version of Horizons or World of Motion would have attracted more people to Epcot. Why remove the classic rides? Keep them and add new ones. It's like removing Splash Mountain or the Haunted Mansion - YOU DON'T DO THAT!! The reason you see such long lines at Test Track is because there is not much else to do at Epcot. Kids could ride Horizons and World of Motion - the whole family together. When I took my kids, they loved riding Horizons and World of Motion over and over again. Test Track is ok but little kids can't ride it. Epcot has fewer things to do for the entire family.

Importnat point: What sets Disney apart from other theme parks is the animatronics type dark rides. That is the Disney magical touch. That is what Walt loved. I go to Disney for the magic and to see those types of rides. If I wanted thrill only, then I would go to Universal or Six Flags. (I would never do that)

Some people get it and some people don't. Stand still Bob.....I'm sprinkling some pixie dust on you right now.

King Triton

 

[King Triton]

Horizons was the heart and soul of Epcot.

Epcot hasn't been the same since.


King Triton

 

[WDWHound]

The problem is not the addition of new thrill rides. Disney can and does do this well. The problem is that they are abbonding the old animatronic show rides which only Disney could do well.

Lets look at Future World 1 year after it opened. It featured 5 Animatronic dark rides (Spaceship Earth, Horizons, World of Motion, Universe of Energy and Journey into Imagination). We have now lost Horizons and World of Motion, Rumors are that we will soon lose Spaceship Earth (to be replaced with a thrill ride) and Journey in Imagination has been turned into a giftshop with a short ride in front of it (Granted, its better now then than their first attempt at retheming it). This will leave one, count em, 1 large scale darkride in Future world. We had 5, soon we have one. Now do you understand why people are upset? We don't mind thrillrides being added to the park, but does the price have to be the loss of all the darkrides that we love?

If Horizons wasn't drawing crowds, it should have been replaced with a darkride that WOULD draw crowds and Mission Space should have been added somewhere else (gasp! that would actually increase the number of attractions in Futureworld! What a horrible thing that would be!). Destroying all the darkrides and only building thrillrides to replace them is taking the cheap and easy way out at the expense of half of their audience. Why cant they strike a balance and build some darkrides and some thrill rides?

The last major animatronic dark ride built in the US was The Geat Movie Ride. How many thrill rides have been built since then? (I count 5). I beleive Eisner has walked away from animatronics rides not because they cant draw crowds (Pirates and HM prove that theory wrong), but becuse they are expensive and require creativity and imagination to do well. If there's anything Eisner doesn't understand, its paying for quality or creativity, so we get stuck we all thrills, all the time.

Welcome to Six Flags Over Eisner.

 

[WDWHound]

One last thing. Horizons was the last ride left in ANY Disney park that attepted to show how we will live in the future. I know that building this sort of ride is hard and I know that they can become outdated quickly, but this is Future World for heavan's sake! Shouldn't there be a least on ride in Future world focusing on living in the future? (and please don't offer Innoventions as a substitute. Innoventions is a commercial, not an attraction).

 

[Bob O]

Am i mad/angry about horizons/wom, no!!!! When both rides were in operation i rode them often and for their time they were good, but time passed them by. Also neither attraction ever had a wait so it was nice to walk on to a ride instead of standing in line!!!
And while some here may have fallen under some pixie dust spell and believe the mass's out their loved these attractions like they did(as well as their so called true disney friends) the fact that neither attraction had lines speaks volumes of the overall popularity of these attractions. Or are we too believe they are more popular than TT is or MS will be which have (in tt's case) hour long waits which are common.
The true fact is neither attraction has ever been considered a true disney classic like potc/hm/tot/sm.
The bottom line is that neither attraction had the popularity to justify being in the park and were smartly removed by attractions that will be very busy and will help to increase attendance and merchandise sales. Which wom/horizons didnt do!!
Now should have disney put in different attractions than tt/ms can be debated but it was smart to remove attractions that no longer developed crowds of people to go on them.
And as much as we love potc/hm if either attraction fails to have enough ridership they will also be removed.
Now i guess before disney changes any ride they will have to contact people who trade pins as maybe they are the only true disney fans!!!

 

[WDWHound]

Just for the record Bob, I suspect that no group of Disney Fans could ever come to full agreement on issues like this. Clearly your opinions make you no more or less a fan. And while I miss Horizons and WOM, the big thing for me is not that they decided to get rid of them, but that we never got another darkride to fill the void they left. Disney must tear down that which is not popular (my one exception would be the CoP, since I see that as one of the few remeining Walt originals), but it would be nice if they at least tried to replace them with better rides of the same type.

 

[Bob O]

Wdwhound-I would agree that i would also have liked a dark ride if done right alot better than i like tt which is a ok attraction but nothing special. It does seem that due to money disney is unwilling to put in the time and effort to make a new attraction matching the quality of potc/hm which are timeless and one of thier last attempts Superstar Limo in DCA was a disaster from all reports. I love dark rides but if they arent done properly they wont get repeat rides or sell merchandise which disney really wants atthis time.
While i have never been a fan of COP(my wife lovesit by the way) i would also agree that since it is one of the few remaining attractions Walt did have a hand it should be kept for its historical perspective even if not that busy in ridership/viewership.
While i am a lover of thrill rides like TOT/Indiana Jones at DL i do believe that all disney parks need to have a mix of all type of attractions to meet all of their guests needs. But if rides have little to no lines they do need to be replaced and rides that arent classics should be repalced so as to keep the parks fresh and give the guests new things too experience.
If parks become stagnant/boring that wont make people want to make repeat visits.

 

[Barb]

But if rides still see significant lines, why do they insist on getting rid of or changing such rides? Why mess with JIYI? The first was great, the second version was totally awful and the third is an acceptable replacement. Why take away Mr. Toad's Wild Ride? Both still had stong followings. Seems like popularity is not always the only reason to junking a ride or attraction.
I do agree, Bob, that the smart way for Disney to proceed to have something for everyone. They need to incorporate the classic with new and fun technology. I, too, am a huge fan of the dark ride. (Alice in Wonderland is DL in one of my favorites!) Why not use that same idea to produce something new and exciting? Why does every new ride have to be a stomach churner? I can only handle so many simulator rides in one vacation. Why does making one toss their cookies have to be a prerequisite for a new attraction?

 

[Bob O]

Barb-I cant explain all that disney does!!!!
I agree that JIYI was a awful decision!!!!! They made a excellant ride medicore and im guessing they wanted to make the ride smaller so they could sell more in the expanded merchandise area.
As for Toad i think they were too cheap to build a new building for pooh so they took out the ride instead and also added space too sell merchandise. They are probably justifying their decision by saying the mr Toad characters arent well known(not that i buy it).
And i do agree with a good mix of attractions for all guests. IMHO they are still short of attractions geared to the non-crumb cruncher set but im sure alot would disagree with that!! I would love to see a great dark ride but at this time they are either too cheap or lack the creativity to add one!! Its sad that we get the dinsoaur attraction at AK when it just pales in comparsion to a truely great attraction like Indy at DL when both are based on the same ride mechanism.

 

[DC7800]

Originally posted by Bob O
the fact that neither attraction had lines speaks volumes of the overall popularity of these attractions. Or are we too believe they are more popular than TT is or MS will be which have (in tt's case) hour long waits which are common. The true fact is neither attraction has ever been considered a true disney classic like potc/hm/tot/sm. The bottom line is that neither attraction had the popularity to justify being in the park and were smartly removed by attractions that will be very busy and will help to increase attendance and merchandise sales. Which wom/horizons didnt do!! Now should have disney put in different attractions than tt/ms can be debated but it was smart to remove attractions that no longer developed crowds of people to go on them. And as much as we love potc/hm if either attraction fails to have enough ridership they will also be removed.

Actually, the fact that neither Horizons or World of Motion had long lines says absolutely nothing about their overall popularity or the number of guests riding (which is really two different criteria). So long as every seat in every ride vehicle is occupied by a warm body, the attraction will carry the same number of guests whethor those guests waited in line two minutes or two hours. Granted, this hinges on filling every seat (a condition Horizons didn't always meet, particularly in it's final years, though there are other reasons behind this), but the mere fact a ride has a long line doesn't mean it's popular. Attractions with low (loading) capacities also develop long lines. I once waited a good thirty minutes to ride the Mike Fink Keel Boats, as only one boat was operating. Wonder how many people passed through wait-free Spaceship Earth in the same time frame?

Thus, the argument to remove (supposedly unpopular) attractions solely because they lack long lines doesn't hold water. By that standard, The American Adventure, COP, Impressions de France, WDW Railroad, and the TTA should all be removed. None have lines, yet all are quite popular. Sure, you may have to wait for one show to finish (or a train to arrive) before you enter the theater, but that is quite a different case from a "queue".

In fact, a walk-on Horizons was indeed more popular than many attractions with long lines, such as Space Mountain (2,660 people per hour for Horizons, vs, 900-1,200 for SM. Again, this assumes filling every seat. But, Horizons still "wins" even when running with half it's ride vehicles empty!). Until Horizons was allowed to wither and deteriorate from neglect (and endured several cycles of open again/closed again/open again) it probably did ok. You cannot honestly compare (popularity or attendance) of Horizons in its final months to Test Track or Mission:Space as new attractions. And, of course, the effort (and money) necessary to bring Horizons (or World of Motion) back to respectability seems trivial, even for Disney. Further, both attractions were simply lost too soon to be seriously considered as "classics", not because they werent...

Now, haven't we had this (actually fun!) little debate before........