Homework rant

[honeydiane1953]

My daughter is now in her thirties but I still remember the amount of homework that child had in grammer school. I could not believe it. What did they do during the day? Now Paige had a college education but we still remark of the volumes of homework she did. Their ought to be a law!!!!

 

[SavvyMom]

Granted I teach 3rd grade. Definitely not on a high school scale. The homework I assign is thus: Spelling homework (words they see frequently in text or on tests); Math (review of concepts already taught and practiced and tested); Drill (times tables); and Reading (Read 20 minutes anything you want - including the newspaper - and summarize it with at least 5 GOOD sentences.). The final assignment is to study notes taken in school for at least 10 minutes. In my estimation this is roughly an hour. I do tell my parents that in no way do I want their child to spend the entire evening doing homework! If the child does not have time to play or relax I want to know about it. I'm perfectly willing to cut back homework or reteach how to do homework. Kids need to be kids!

I will also admit that when I watched my high schooler take an AP course I thought there was an awful lot of busy work. In the end though, I believe it gave her a variety of ways to study and organize her work.

Homework, in my opinion, is a necessary evil. From what I've read and studied, homework should not exceed 10 minutes X grade level + reading/study. IOW, a 10th grader should have 10 X 10 = 100 minutes of homework PLUS regular study of notes and reading.2 hours a night is plenty for reading/ELA/Sci/Soc Stu. Math homework should NEVER exceed time spent in class. If the child truly does not get it they should have examples that they attempted then definite questions about the material. Homework I give is 1st to remind them of what they've already done and 2nd to show me what help they need me to review with them. If I give an extra project, I know that it will be fun for the child and not very time consuming.

7 hours of homework is completely excessive. It is true though, that teachers are under immense pressure to have students master standards that by nature require independent/group work outside of school. Many teachers are grasping at straws to try to reach the goals that have been set for the children.

 

[SavvyMom]

Absolutely. My daughter carried all AP classes when offered. She spent HOURS every night doing homework. I saw her on weekends and breaks. There were many nights with very little sleep but it was worth every moment. (For weeks I was waking up at 2 AM and didn't know why. It was because that was the time that she was going to bed and the upstairs noises of her doing so would wake me.)

Consequently, she has a scholarship to an excellent college and can manage her work in a way that leaves time for networking, volunteering, and other activities.

She is well prepared for the collegiate academic environment and that, in turn, is preparing her for grad school.

Students cannot perform at such a level without many hours of work outside of the regular classroom instruction time. Like the saying goes with regard to college work: for every one hour in class, three hours of outside class study is needed.

And 20 minutes of math work per night at a high school level does not even begin to cut it.

I'm okay with this AS LONG AS the material has been taught and practiced in class. There's no doubt that math requires memorization and practice. In my small work example I would cite time tables. I don't spend a lot of time teaching it, but it does require a lot of time to master/memorize - by the student.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I was reading about Finland and found all that interesting, too. Also, if I remember correctly preschool through university is free for all students and all students from preschool through high school get free lunch. I assumed taxes would be a lot higher, because of this and other social programs there, but when I looked into it, they were only a few percentage points higher.

Very interesting.

Yep. Even with their very small class sizes and feeding everyone lunch, they spend less per pupil than we do in the US.

 

[shortbun]

I just told my eighth grader to enjoy his last month of middle school. While my kids are able to have some extracurricular activities, the homework load drastically increases for Ap and honors classes in high school. The payoff is experiencing college work learning to budget your time and being able to test out of college classes.

And a year after they all get to college, everything levels out and you can't tell the AP students from the regular class takers. The pressure we're putting on these kids gets a little ridiculous. I believe in keeping them busy so they don't get in trouble due to too much time on their hands BUT the academic pressure I'm reading about on this thread makes me nervous. Kids are having panic attacks, anxiety disorderss, migraines...not so much of that when I was in high school. I worked hard, had fun, got a full ride and wasn't doing 3-4 hours of homework every night.
Btw, been to Finland. Not exactly the USA-tiny, one climate, low population, not much immigration, more balanced incomes. Just not a good comparison although they do well with their system.

 

[NHdisneylover]

And a year after they all get to college, everything levels out and you can't tell the AP students from the regular class takers. The pressure we're putting on these kids gets a little ridiculous. I believe in keeping them busy so they don't get in trouble due to too much time on their hands BUT the academic pressure I'm reading about on this thread makes me nervous. Kids are having panic attacks, anxiety disorderss, migraines...not so much of that when I was in high school. I worked hard, had fun, got a full ride and wasn't doing 3-4 hours of homework every night.
Btw, been to Finland. Not exactly the USA-tiny, one climate, low population, not much immigration, more balanced incomes. Just not a good comparison although they do well with their system.

I agree with you that the pressure is too much.

I also agree that Finland is smaller, less diverse, etc. nonetheless, what they are doing is working much better than what other, very similar in make up and size, Scandinavia countries are doing.

We are also not at all similar in size, culture, etc to South Korea, China, etc. --but people see very willing to try to "compete" with them by making attempts to "copy" their system (how many people here have posted that those countries spend long hours in school and on homework so maybe we should too?)

At the end of the day, I am not convinced that even trying to be "the best" on math or science test scores is in our best interests.

I would like to see a base line standard that we try to get everyone to. One that is realistic and not making everyone in the general population have the background of an engineer.
Otherwise, much of our success as a nation has been built on people who had basic educational grounding and then a lot of encouragement and ability (including free time not in school or doign hoework) to learn what interested them, think out of the box and follow dreams. Think of major, life or cultural changing things from the last hundred or two hundred years.

Airplanes
Mass produced cars
Electric Lightbulbs
Facebook
Apple and Windows systems

ALL of those are from American Inventors. People who were a prodcut a school system that left time to do your own things and which also encourage learning HOW to think and not just the ability to produce the "right" answer on standardized exams.

 

[goofy4tink]

You want to talk about homework?

DD is in Pre-Pre-K and had an HOUR of homework today Yes, an hour, I am not exagerating and I was sitting with her while she was doing it (of course) and there was no playing around, she was actually doing her work. I felt so bad that I promised her that I would give her 3 stickers on her chart (it's for her occupational therapy) and she will get her Lalaloopsy doll on friday. I am going to talk to her teacher tomorrow, I know they want to prepare the kids, but, this is preschool

Everyone has to do what is best for their child, but really? There is no way my child is going to a preschool that gives homework. I don't care if it's busy work. I sent my dd, now 19, to preschool to be with other kids. To learn how to 'get along', to become a more social creature. I didn't send her so she could learn to read or add up figures, nor to learn a language.
In fact, when I went to parent conferences, the teacher would ask if I had any questions, to start with. I would always ask if my dd was sought after as a play mate, or if she was standing alone, off to the side just watching. I wanted to know if she had a group of friends. That is what was important to me back when she was between the ages of 3.5 and 5.
Believe me, she never felt deprived of homework by the time she got out of high school.

Homework is a necessary evil. In my opinion? I think it should cover what was taught that day. This way the student knows if he 'got it' as does the teacher. I know that in our school system, there is no busy work. The teachers all know that the kids are stretched to the limit. We all want well rounded students, so there has to be time for sports, fine arts, etc in addition to scholastics. And if those kids are spending 4-5 hrs a day on homework, they aren't on the playing fields or stages of our high schools. Most good teachers realize this and plan accordingly.

 

[luvmy3]

My elementary kids (1st & 3rd grade) have homework just about every night. It's usually one sheet, maybe two. It takes them about 10-20 minutes while they're watching TV.

Although my 1st grader has a group research project.

Defintely insane

Why?

What is insane?

That students that young will begin to research?

Or that students that young are expected to work together?

If not first grade, when?

School is not the same as when you were enrolled. The WORLD is not the same as when you were enrolled. Students are being prepared for life and all of its challenges.

How is that insane?

If the group does their research separately at home and then uses class time to work on it together, that is fine. If this is a project where the kids have to get together outside of school and do their research together, that is insane. These kids are 6, they have plenty of other opportunities to do research and work together in class.

 

[scrapquitler]

Defintely insane

If the group does their research separately at home and then uses class time to work on it together, that is fine. If this is a project where the kids have to get together outside of school and do their research together, that is insane. These kids are 6, they have plenty of other opportunities to do research and work together in class.

And really, how much "research" are first graders able to do? Are they expected to hit the library and find sources? Do they google? A research project by a first grader is going to require as much parental research and input as from the child, and a "group" project at this age outside of school means a bunch more work for the parents to organize the get together.

 

[luvmy3]

And really, how much "research" are first graders able to do? Are they expected to hit the library and find sources? Do they google? A research project by a first grader is going to require as much parental research and input as from the child, and a "group" project at this age outside of school means a bunch more work for the parents to organize the get together.

Exactly

 

[Mkrop]

I never had homework in kindergarten or first grade. We had to read or complete work we didn't finish in class in older elementary grades, but I think formal homework came in middle school. I can understand parents not wanting homework for young children. The PISA scores I mentioned above are for secondary school. I should have been more clear.

I absolutely want homework, a reasonable amount, for my younger child (maybe not preschool), I want them from K on to have a reasonable amount so they gradually learn more and more to do homework and not suddenly have homework to do in 6th grade.


It is be interesting, DS15 will most likely be in AP classes, but the one thing I love about his school is there are very much into balance. They want to challenge them but they also want them to have other activities to balance it.

He got accepted into a new dual math program they are trying and they talked to us parents about the balance needed btw academics and activities, and if the kids were not up to it is was ok, or if they were struggling that the school would offer help. They already offer "9th period" everyday where every teacher must be available for help or review with their students. Many kids take advantage of this before tests.

 

[HerRoyalHighness]

She has club meetings every day but Mondays.

Maybe cut this back...and record her study/homework times (secretly provides best results) and see what's going on.

We had a bunch of 4th grade parents complaining about homework taking so long, but the parents complaining had kids that were notorious for goofing off.

 

[Liberty Belle]

I agree with you that the pressure is too much.

I also agree that Finland is smaller, less diverse, etc. nonetheless, what they are doing is working much better than what other, very similar in make up and size, Scandinavia countries are doing.

We are also not at all similar in size, culture, etc to South Korea, China, etc. --but people see very willing to try to "compete" with them by making attempts to "copy" their system (how many people here have posted that those countries spend long hours in school and on homework so maybe we should too?)

At the end of the day, I am not convinced that even trying to be "the best" on math or science test scores is in our best interests.

I would like to see a base line standard that we try to get everyone to. One that is realistic and not making everyone in the general population have the background of an engineer.
Otherwise, much of our success as a nation has been built on people who had basic educational grounding and then a lot of encouragement and ability (including free time not in school or doign hoework) to learn what interested them, think out of the box and follow dreams. Think of major, life or cultural changing things from the last hundred or two hundred years.

Airplanes
Mass produced cars
Electric Lightbulbs
Facebook
Apple and Windows systems

ALL of those are from American Inventors. People who were a prodcut a school system that left time to do your own things and which also encourage learning HOW to think and not just the ability to produce the "right" answer on standardized exams.

Bingo. And, apparently, that's Finland's attitude, too.

 

[sam_gordon]

Defintely insane



If the group does their research separately at home and then uses class time to work on it together, that is fine. If this is a project where the kids have to get together outside of school and do their research together, that is insane. These kids are 6, they have plenty of other opportunities to do research and work together in class.

I thought at first DD had to do the project on her own. Yesterday, when she got on the laptop and asked for help "researching", I found out they're working as a group in class. We found and printed a website on her subject (Tigers) and she'll bring that in to class.

I think 1st grade is a little young to introduce "research". I feel that should start around 3rd/4th grade. 1st grade should still be working on basics... math, reading, writing. JMO.

 

[FantasticalWritings]

Why are kids expected to go to school for 7 hours day and then often have 3-4 hours of homework? I feel so bad for my DD. First day back after vacation and she has a huge SS packet, and tons of math homework due tomorrow. I know she just wants to relax. Fortunately we didn't have anything else going on today after school. She has club meetings every day but Mondays.

It just seems so unfair. Most adults aren't expected to start work at 7am, come home at 3, have an hour break and then work from home until bedtime. This has to be unhealthy.

She's is in all advanced classes, so some of this pressure she did put on herself. She's in 9th grade and I assume it's only going to get worse. She is not poking around or wasting time either. She did homework for an hour or two almost every day over vacation as well. How do families w/high schoolers go away those weeks?

Selfishly I would like to spend some time with her today but I know it's not going to happen. She can't stay up late because chorus starts at 6:50 am. tomorrow.

Thanks.. just venting. She's not the one complaining, I am.

Supposedly teachers use the rule that for every grade level, there should be 10 minutes of homework a night. That would mean an hour and a half of homework for a 9th grader...way more than she has.

I know when I was in high school, I was taking advanced courses because I was on an "advanced route" to college. I had 3-4 hours of homework a night. It was brutal. Then I got to college and it turned into every night being spent in my room doing homework.

I do think though that college is very different from high school. Teachers may say that they are preparing you for high school, but I didn't find that to be the case at all. Homework is good for building responsibility, but I don't think a 9th grader should be doing 3-4 hours of homework a night. Once I got to college, the playing field pretty much evened out. It didn't matter if you were in advanced courses or not in high school.

Not to mention she has to be at school at 6:30 AM for something else...you definentely don't have to be at college at 6:30 AM after doing homework all night. That's a little nutsy.

 

[nuke]

I must have the only high school kid in honors and accelerated classes that has minimal homework. Some nights nothing other days an hour or less. He does it throughout the day in other classes and still gets straight A's. It works for him I guess.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

I must have the only high school kid in honors and accelerated classes that has minimal homework. Some nights nothing other days an hour or less. He does it throughout the day in other classes and still gets straight A's. It works for him I guess.

No... I was in all honors classes through high school and we had minimal homework as well. Most of the actual work we did was components for bigger project, papers, reading for discussions, things like that. (Except for math.)

 

[CaliBear]

I agree with you that the pressure is too much.

I also agree that Finland is smaller, less diverse, etc. nonetheless, what they are doing is working much better than what other, very similar in make up and size, Scandinavia countries are doing.

We are also not at all similar in size, culture, etc to South Korea, China, etc. --but people see very willing to try to "compete" with them by making attempts to "copy" their system (how many people here have posted that those countries spend long hours in school and on homework so maybe we should too?)

No one said copy their system, but do you really not see why American students should be competitive with their Asian counterparts? Or why China would be the country we would MOST compare the US to in general?

 

[Disneyluvr]

No one said copy their system, but do you really not see why American students should be competitive with their Asian counterparts? Or why China would be the country we would MOST compare the US to in general?

Well in order to compare our scores to China or any other country we would have to have a system like they do, which means NOT educating everyone and only sending those that have high scores and/or abilities to school. Most of those high scoring countries do not educate their special needs children or those with learning problems. So we will never have scores comparable because we include EVERYONE in our scores

 

[mimmi]

Well in order to compare our scores to China or any other country we would have to have a system like they do, which means NOT educating everyone and only sending those that have high scores and/or abilities to school. Most of those high scoring countries do not educate their special needs children or those with learning problems. So we will never have scores comparable because we include EVERYONE in our scores

I read this in an article about the Chinese school system, is this also true for Korea, Singapoe and Japan?

On the other hand, there are countries like the Netherlands, Belgium, Canada among the top ten, where most definitely everybody goes to school, so it is possible to have an efficient school system without excluding the not so high achievers.

I'd like to think there's hope for every country as I very much dislike the school system in my country.