Homeschooling

[Mo-Yo]

I would think it had been obvious from my first thread that I have seriously thought about homeschooling...and that my comments were legitimate attempts to gain understanding its strengths and weaknesses.

I've only known a few homeschoolers...one who has pre-schoolers whose philosophy and approach I really like and who has talked with me at length about her concerns about meeting the challenges when her kids get older...and the other two that I mentioned earlier, whose children I still worry for.

I taught school before becoming a journalist,and I am still very passionate about all children getting the education they deserve.

I thought you folks here could shed some light on it for me...but at first I was "exasperating", then I was "respectfully" told I was stupid, then I was called an intruder.

Not exactly the open minds one hopes to encounter on the cutting edge of education.

I never said that any person here specifically had "inadequacies". I said that I do - specifically in regard to math and science - and I think I am fairly well-educated. Obviously very few home schooling parents - or people on earth - have advanced degrees in science, literature, history etc. (Like Jancyn). The rest of mere mortals (and I do mean that as a joke and honestly respectfully) have "educational inadequacies" to overcome for ourselves and in order to teach our children...especially if we are the primary educators in our children's lives.

No one addressed the concerns I have about how parents without strong subject background manage to identify and overcome it - except to get defensive and attack. It would seem that this would be a concern for all homeschooling parents. I guess I was wrong, and that is disturbing.

Go back and read the posts...you can see where a truly respectful inquiry turned bitter.

I apologize that I also got angry and defensive. I meant no disrespect. I realize home schooling parents work hard and have the best interest of their children at heart. I said that before...but no one seemed to hear me.

 

[bookgirl]

jaycns-- Another great post!! Thank you for so eloquently saying what I was thinking. I love it when I see homeschooling posts. I love sharing ideas with other homeschoolers. I love helping newcomers to homeschooling with their questions and concerns. However, I think it is very unfair that others intrude and make insinuations and assumptions about us. I do not understand why they care so much about how we educate our children. How does this affect them?

I hope that the OP is able to ignore all of the intruding comments and get the answers to the questions that she asked.

It's a homeschooling thread so only homeschool families are allowed (which I am not homeschooling) and prohomeschoolers are allowed to insult those who are not (even though I said how much I respected anyone who was homeschooling and only gave advise on teaching alternative that they could access and use for homeschooling), and everyone not agreeing with the homeschoolers are intruding even we they are polite and don't insult others with differing opinions. There's a great lesson to teach your kids. I won't intrude anymore. I thought I was in a discussion about education but actually not. The original poster was looking for advice I hope she found what she needed and I hope that any advice I gave her makes her experience a good one for her and her family. To those that are insulting and defensive and attacking.... Well, have a nice day anyway.

 

[jaycns]

!!!
Im with the op I need tons of info lol! I believe I saw a post a page back with lots of info.on books and websites. Ill start there and then prob pm you if I have more questions,(im sure i will lol) since you look like a go to gal for homeschooling questions if that is ok.

No problem at all!! I really do love talking about anything to do with education...or Disney.

 

[horseshowmom]

And funny, our neighbors are both school teachers in the public school system and both of them support the idea of homeschooling 100%....so it makes me feel better that I can be at home and do this for my children.

Not as funny as you probably think. DH and I are both employed by the local school district (I've served as both a classroom teacher and an administrator while DH has always been in the classroom.), and I homeschooled our daughter (now on scholarship in pharmacy school).

BTW, we used A Beka and were very pleased with it (DD had a 32 on her ACT). We used the DVD program which has certified teachers for each subject. If a student has a problem with something, they can rewind their teacher (nice concept, huh?). They also have a toll-free number if further assistance is needed. In our case, we never needed to use it. The teachers did an excellent job!

 

[horseshowmom]

One more suggestion, you may want to check on whether your state offers any virtual school options. I attended a National School Board Association Technology conference in Dallas in November. The southeast is currently leading the nation in this area. Some states mainly offer high school courses, but some do K-12. I was very impressed with what was out there. I also recently found out that many, if not most, universities also have high school degree programs (that are done through distance learning).

 

[meandtheguys2]

A few years ago, I had neighbors who, due to a problem child (adopted child who had major problems due to the substance abuse of his biological mother), started homeschooling all of their kids. The younger ones adapted ok, but the oldest girl who was about 11, was totally miserable. This girl changed from a fairly happy but responsible child to a miserably lonely one. Admittedly, that was just one case, but it is a possibility. IMHO, kids need kids to play with. So, at the very least, Paper1225 needs to make plans for her kids to have a social life with other kids.

I agree, and I am sure she would plan on that. I don't know anyone who doesn't.

 

[meandtheguys2]

If any of you would like to see the huge variety of homeschooling materials available (both Christian and secular), get your hands on a catalog from Rainbow Resource Center. Their site isn't the greatest, but they have a huge booth at most of the major homeschool conventions and a catalog as thick as a phone book with great descriptions of the products!

http://www.rainbowresource.com/catalog.php?sid=1170130320-771734

Gotta add that this is one wicked catalog. They discuss all of the products. I keep one by my bed, at our farm, and in the RR!

jaycns, did I see somewhere that you are big on the Rosetta Stone program? We've gone thru the first 3 levels of The Learnables in French, and the first in Chinese. My boys are 12, 10 and 7. Would the Rosetta program be a reasonable jump from here?

As per knowing a subject before teaching it, well, it isn't always necessary, and sometimes has awesome results! I took french in hs and college, but could only read it, not speak or hear it. We have all learned to speak, hear and read it the last couple of years. Proved it in Canada this year!

Frankly, for those concerned about the later years, most of the people we know put their kids in school when they get to high school. Or here in Ohio, my kids can attend either the comm. college, or an awesome 4 year private LA college and double dip. We personally just plan on taking them thru the hs years using both my husband's and my strong points. Perhaps, co-op chemistry with the small group of parents who are taking it to the end.

mo-yo, i don't understand why you were looking at someone's lesson plans when you were interviewing a care-giver. We are all extremely passionate about the education our children receive, btw.

 

[ohiominnie]

The rest of mere mortals (and I do mean that as a joke and honestly respectfully) have "educational inadequacies" to overcome for ourselves and in order to teach our children...especially if we are the primary educators in our children's lives.

PM-ing you so this thread stays on topic.

 

[meandtheguys2]

OP, forgot to add that there are some awesome conventions out there. We have a good one in Columbus, each year, but Cincinatti is doing one also this year. At conventions you have the opportunity to hear experts, and go thru curriculum. Overwhelming, but a good time!

 

[paper1225]

meandtheguys-
I am new to all of this, how do I find out about conferences? I know there is a catholic one in march in st.louis(I am 30 minutes outside of st.louis). I am willing to travel if I need to-this decision is worth it. I know I want to have catholic lessons in my teachings(if I choose to do this), but the entire program does not have to be catholic.

As for DD11, yesterday she came home wanting to be homeschooled. This is where we are with her-she is on the fence. I am sure something happened yesterday at school, but she will not tell us. In the last 2 years at her school we have lost 5 girls(to public, other catholic, and hs) due to problems. We have not seen such nasty girls in my other DD12 grade. DD11 can get caught up really quick with all of it. The newest issue is boy/girl parties. SHE IS 11!!!! No, I do not mean a party of just boy girls..........these are parties with "couples".

I do not want my children to be "unsocial". I just want their values to come from us-not so much from their peers. Social activities will be part of our schedule.

Also, this post was not meant to start any form of arguement. I just am looking for advice. I want to research and have done plenty on my own. From my experience though, the best advice I can get is from people using the systems, or have used them.

A HUGE thank you to all who have posted, and PMed me.......I am still mulling over all of it-I am pleasantly surprised at all the info I have gotten!!

 

[ohiominnie]

I've come to the conclusion that sometimes there are some topics where people just need to agree to disagree and they need to go on with their lives and respect other's choices.....and not challenge them every step of the way.

I'm like that with home births. No way, no how, no one could pay me enough to attempt a home birth. That's how strongly I feel about it. But I've learned that as strongly as I feel against it, there are those who feel that strongly FOR it.... and no amount of challenging on my part will change their mind.

People can say all they want against homeschooling...
--poor socialization
--inadequate parents who don't completely know the subject
--isolation of the kids
--lack of government oversight on what the kids are learning
--kids who are unprepared for college
--kids who are unprepared for life
--kids who don't fit in....
(believe me, I've heard them all)

But people can also come up with a list why the
public schools are failing....
--improper socialization (meaning kids learning bad stuff from other kids)
--burnt out teachers who just don't care anymore
--educational standards handed down from the state without looking at each individual district
--teachers having to teach to the middle of the class leaving the gifted and those with learning difficulties out
--school shootings
--teaching to the test

etc etc. I think public school parents would get pretty ticked off if people were always questioning why they put their kid in a public school. Could you imagine me going up to ps parents at the bus stop and challenging them on their choices? It's absurd. And one of the reasons it's absurd is that the public school system has been around for so long that people accept it as "normal" and they don't question a parents choice to send their kid there. So, yes, homeschoolers can get a bit defensive because they are always being challenged and expected to defend why they chose the legal option to homeschool.

For every "homeschooler gone bad" case (i.e. the Yates woman who drowned her children) you can find a case of "public schooler gone bad (i.e. Columbine, Paducah, etc) So yes, there are extremes in each case. But those are EXTREMES. It'd be interesting to do research on the not so extremes. How do teen pregnancy rates compare between ps kids and homeschoolers? What are the smoking rates between kids who ps and kids who homeschool? Is drug use more prevelant in the ps group or the homeschool group? Are ps children more polite (opening doors for others, giving up their seat on the bus, etc etc) than homeschool kids---assuming the ps kids are much better socialized? Are gangs composed more of ps kids (or ps dropouts) or of homeschool kids (or homeschool dropouts?)

 

[Sunny37]

. It'd be interesting to do research on the not so extremes. How do teen pregnancy rates compare between ps kids and homeschoolers? What are the smoking rates between kids who ps and kids who homeschool? Is drug use more prevelant in the ps group or the homeschool group? Are ps children more polite (opening doors for others, giving up their seat on the bus, etc etc) than homeschool kids---assuming the ps kids are much better socialized? Are gangs composed more of ps kids (or ps dropouts) or of homeschool kids (or homeschool dropouts?)

I think all of these "not so extremes" that you have mentioned would be influenced more by parenting than the fact that a child is homeschooled or educated in a public school.

 

[meandtheguys2]

paper, I would check out the conference you mentioned. It is close, and Catholic. My gf would love that! Try googling it, and see if you can find the web-site. We are a small town, and i found our three co-ops on the library bulletin board! Maybe someone from a real city could help on this one!

We have friends who use Seton, and the Berquist program I mentioned earlier. either of those might have links to the options in your area, also.

 

[ohiominnie]

I think all of these "not so extremes" that you have mentioned would be influenced more by parenting than the fact that a child is homeschooled or educated in a public school.

Oh, I do agree to some extent, but think about this....homeschooling kids have more contact with their parents on a day in/day out basis. They have more of a chance to be guided and shaped based on the parents values. When a child goes away to school for 8 or 9 hours a day, their value system can be shaped more by their teachers and/or peers. So while it's not DIRECTLY a cause and effect thing, there is a correlation.

If you think about the fact that kids are in school 8-9 hours a day, they come home and have 1-2 hours of homework each evening, and then they are involved in some sort of activity (piano lessons, soccer, volleyball, whatever) they have very very little time to hang with their parents (no do they want to b/c their parents aren't "cool.")

There was a recent thread here on the DIS...someone's 6 yr old was getting very lippy after being in school for awhile. She was defiant and saying things that were very unlike you ("I hate you" "I'm sick of you" "you can't tell me what to do" etc) I experienced this same thing when my dd went to kdg (August-April) She all of a sudden was taking on the values of her peers and she was coming home being nasty to me and saying things to her little brother that were mean "you're a dork" "you're stupid" "I don't need you, I have friends."

People look at home schooled kids as not being socialized well b/c they don't spend 8-9 hours a day with their peers. I'm sorry, but I don't WANT my 12 yr old to be completely socialized completely and totally by other 12 yr olds!!! That's a scary thought!! Besides, when *I* was in school I was constantly getting in trouble for "socializing."

 

[ohiominnie]

an interesting view of socialization....

http://www.geocities.com/nelstomlinson/socialization.html

I can't seem to find one of my favorite commentaries about socialization in home schooled kids, but I'll keep looking...

 

[perdidochas]

Let me assure you...home schooled kids are NOT (for the most part) lonely kids. Sure, you will find some that are not "properly socialized"...but you will find those in public and private school settings as well. Most "normal" children can blossom in a home school setting just as easily as they can blossom in a class room setting (and vice versa). The important thing to consider is what is right for the family and then to make sure that no matter which choice is made that every child's need is being met in that fashion.

I agree with your opinion that kids need kids to play with. I think you are making a BIG and incorrect assumption though when you feel concern over this happening just because someone home schools their child(ren). It's a fallacy based on old stereotypes and half educated estimations of what "those children" must be lacking.

I'm just basing it on my observations with the case of a girl who went to conventional (private) schools for 5 yrs, and was then homeschooled. That's a different situation than a kid who's been homeschooled their entire life. I've never said or recommended for her not to homeschool, just be careful about it.

I can promise anyone interested that my 10 year old is not only getting a very sound educational background but is also developing into a fine social butterfly. As I said in an earlier post, my sons are all so "normal" people are surprised to hear that they are home schooled. When I see hyper or needy children who are schooled in a classroom setting, I don't judge that to be a product soley caused by their educational venue.

This girl was not needy before they started homeschooling.

I would guess that any "strange" behavior on the part of home school child is attributed (by those who have brief contact with the home school community or a limited number of children who are home schooled) to the fact that they are home schooled. That is not true. Plenty of "strange" behavior exists in all children...no matter what type of education they are receiving.

EVERYBODY would be up in arms if a home schooler started making remarks like I know this one kid in Columbine who shot up his teachers and classmates and it's cause his socialization didn't take place properly at school...."Admittedly, that was just one case, but it is a possibility"...


That was of course, an extreme example. I am just saying that you will find well behaved and ill behaved, well adjusted and not so well adjusted, introverted and extroverted and all other kinds of children in all educational settings.

Hopefully this post does not upset anyone but rather helps to bring about an understanding between parents/teachers/friends/etc of all types of children. There is nothing inherently wrong with choosing to home school that would automatically hinder a child.


**And I don't think anything is wrong with a concerned parent making the choice to home school a child (nor do I see anything wrong with them sending a child to a school) even against the child's wishes. Sure, you should talk with your child...but you are the one who needs to make the ultimate decisions about what is BEST for your child. No 11 year old child knows what is best for them all of the time.**

As I said, I didn't recommend her NOT homeschool, just be careful about isolation. I'm sure most homeschoolers get plenty of interactions with other kids, but this isn't just something that happens, it has to be part of the homeschooling plan.

 

[Brier Rose]

Sorry to take this off topic..but I have been trying to PM Mo-Yo, and it doesn't seem to be going through...


Mo-YO

Please take my sincere apology. I assume since you mentioned the "exasperated" comment that I made that you thought I had directed that at you. I really reallydidn't.

I'm am so sorry you took it that way! It was more of a gereral statement regarding those who judge without ever really knowing what they're judging.

I think one of the bad things about these discussions is that some of us (homeschoolers) do tend to immediatly go on the defensive because we just get attacked so often!

I understand completly where your coming from, and have thought your posts nothing but respectful.
I for one am a homeschooling parent that knows full well where my weaknesses lie..and there are many..lol!

I have always used a program where I am not so much the primary teacher as I am the "overseer".
My oldest DD does an online program where she actually talks to her teachers..different ones for each class daily. They also have scheduled class discussions where each student logs on at the same time, and they discuss different topics.

My DS has been doing the Abeka DVD program. He has a teacher...and a class room full of other kids that he "sees" everyday. I send the work to them to be graded. He even reads to them over the phone for his reading grade!

Someone else grades their work and evaluates them so I know there is no danger of me not being objective.
I feel like I have the best of both worlds!

My frustration comes from the people who don't know there are things like this out there! They just assume that because a parent may not be the "best" at a subject..that automatically means the child should go to school.

Again..I'm sorry you felt like that was directed toward you.

Nicole

 

[Sunny37]

Oh, I do agree to some extent, but think about this....homeschooling kids have more contact with their parents on a day in/day out basis. They have more of a chance to be guided and shaped based on the parents values. When a child goes away to school for 8 or 9 hours a day, their value system can be shaped more by their teachers and/or peers. So while it's not DIRECTLY a cause and effect thing, there is a correlation.

If you think about the fact that kids are in school 8-9 hours a day, they come home and have 1-2 hours of homework each evening, and then they are involved in some sort of activity (piano lessons, soccer, volleyball, whatever) they have very very little time to hang with their parents (no do they want to b/c their parents aren't "cool.")

There was a recent thread here on the DIS...someone's 6 yr old was getting very lippy after being in school for awhile. She was defiant and saying things that were very unlike you ("I hate you" "I'm sick of you" "you can't tell me what to do" etc) I experienced this same thing when my dd went to kdg (August-April) She all of a sudden was taking on the values of her peers and she was coming home being nasty to me and saying things to her little brother that were mean "you're a dork" "you're stupid" "I don't need you, I have friends."

People look at home schooled kids as not being socialized well b/c they don't spend 8-9 hours a day with their peers. I'm sorry, but I don't WANT my 12 yr old to be completely socialized completely and totally by other 12 yr olds!!! That's a scary thought!! Besides, when *I* was in school I was constantly getting in trouble for "socializing."

I see your point, but your original point was comparing hs/ps students in the cases of teen-pregnancy, drug usage, smoking, etc. I feel that if I discipline my child properly and instill our family values, then any "outside" influences will not affect my child's choices in life or change his behavior. He knows our expectations for him and that his choices need to be good choices, or else he will have consequences for his actions.

For what it's worth, I disagree with the opinion that homeschooled children lack socialization. I also disagree with the opinion that just because a child attends ps he/she will somehow be negatively influenced by the "socialization" he/she gets while in school.

 

[perdidochas]

I've come to the conclusion that sometimes there are some topics where people just need to agree to disagree and they need to go on with their lives and respect other's choices.....and not challenge them every step of the way.

I'm like that with home births. No way, no how, no one could pay me enough to attempt a home birth. That's how strongly I feel about it. But I've learned that as strongly as I feel against it, there are those who feel that strongly FOR it.... and no amount of challenging on my part will change their mind.

People can say all they want against homeschooling...
--poor socialization
--inadequate parents who don't completely know the subject
--isolation of the kids
--lack of government oversight on what the kids are learning
--kids who are unprepared for college
--kids who are unprepared for life
--kids who don't fit in....
(believe me, I've heard them all)

But people can also come up with a list why the
public schools are failing....
--improper socialization (meaning kids learning bad stuff from other kids)
--burnt out teachers who just don't care anymore
--educational standards handed down from the state without looking at each individual district
--teachers having to teach to the middle of the class leaving the gifted and those with learning difficulties out
--school shootings
--teaching to the test

etc etc. I think public school parents would get pretty ticked off if people were always questioning why they put their kid in a public school. Could you imagine me going up to ps parents at the bus stop and challenging them on their choices? It's absurd. And one of the reasons it's absurd is that the public school system has been around for so long that people accept it as "normal" and they don't question a parents choice to send their kid there. So, yes, homeschoolers can get a bit defensive because they are always being challenged and expected to defend why they chose the legal option to homeschool.

For every "homeschooler gone bad" case (i.e. the Yates woman who drowned her children) you can find a case of "public schooler gone bad (i.e. Columbine, Paducah, etc) So yes, there are extremes in each case. But those are EXTREMES. It'd be interesting to do research on the not so extremes. How do teen pregnancy rates compare between ps kids and homeschoolers? What are the smoking rates between kids who ps and kids who homeschool? Is drug use more prevelant in the ps group or the homeschool group? Are ps children more polite (opening doors for others, giving up their seat on the bus, etc etc) than homeschool kids---assuming the ps kids are much better socialized? Are gangs composed more of ps kids (or ps dropouts) or of homeschool kids (or homeschool dropouts?)

Considering that there about 50 times as many public schoolers as there are homeschoolers, each homeschooling crazy equals 50 public school crazies.

Also, I do think homeschooling is good for people that want to do it, and who have the right combination of personalities that are needed. My wife and I couldn't do it with our sons. The combination of our personalities (as we see when we help with homework) wouldn't be particularly productive. We prefer to supplement rather than actively teach.

 

[perdidochas]

There was a recent thread here on the DIS...someone's 6 yr old was getting very lippy after being in school for awhile. She was defiant and saying things that were very unlike you ("I hate you" "I'm sick of you" "you can't tell me what to do" etc) I experienced this same thing when my dd went to kdg (August-April) She all of a sudden was taking on the values of her peers and she was coming home being nasty to me and saying things to her little brother that were mean "you're a dork" "you're stupid" "I don't need you, I have friends."

Well, regardless of the source, that's the kind of thing you have to nip in the bud. My kids are a little more defiant, etc., after being with their cousins and grandparents. That's not a reason for us to take them away from contact with their relatives.