HOAs Strike Again

[focusondisney]

Maybe the woman should countersue the HOA for causing bad press which will depress housing prices in this neighborhood.

Or maybe the neighbors feel an area over run with ducks & their mess is already depressing their property values. Could be the HOA is acting to protect all the other resident’s properties.

As for why it took 10 years for the HOA to do anything, we don’t know the whole story of what has taken place over the last 10 years. The article said she had been warned before. I would assume there are steps specified in the HOA rules. First warning, second warning, fine,etc. these probably also have time frames. It is possible they have followed all these steps over the years. Maybe she stopped for periods & then started up again, requiring the HOA to restart the steps.

 

[HopperFan]

We specifically crossed off all houses in HOA communities when we were house hunting. Even if we agreed with all the rules at the time, what’s to say there wouldn’t be a new rule created that we would hate?

Should this person be feeding the ducks? Probably not. (I am curious what she’s feeding them.) I have a feeling this has been going on for longer than the articles claim and the neighbors are fed up.

Before buying it is good to read all the covenants and rules. In our neighborhood you can not change the bylaws without a huge majority vote. Our covenants are basically generic and I think originated in a FL community. We had a family move in with their own auto business and were parking commercial vehicles in their driveway and street. One with all flat tires and bad shape. We did a community vote that commercial vehicles were not permitted except in your garage. In 30+ years that is the only rule we changed. The current board wanted to mandate against painting brick homes and I had to walk them through that they didn't have that right based on the covenants and if they wanted to institute guidelines they'd need the 2/3 or 3/4 vote to change. They dropped it.

How can the HOA foreclose? Do they own the property?

My guess is they technically can't. What we can do is put a lien on someone's home to recoup the costs of something they violated or fines not paid. Like if they stopped mowing so we mowed for them paying someone, or if they built something unapproved and demo is anticipated. These are costs the owner was supposed to absorb, by refusing we can put a lien on their home to make sure they pay. There are other ways to force their hand but it all involves a process that will not initiate until the sale of the home. It is costly to go through with the process and my guess is they are trying to force these people out. But then their covenants might be very clearly defined. What they likely are saying is that there are $$$ in fines and the cost to repair whatever the ducks damaged. A good lawyer could probably put to question whether their feeding or not was the root cause of the duck's behavior. Ducks are there by their choice. The owners are likely selling because they can't afford to pay the fines/lien. NOW if I were the neighborhood my goal is her to stop or move. I would look to recoup the cost of proven damages but let the fines go. Sticky. The goal was met, the people moving is the end goal.

NOTE: Different states may have different parameters. In Georgia it is very easy to get a lien if you want to go through the court process.

 

[MillauFr]

Turning over code enforcement to untrained individuals is a recipe for disaster.

 

[mrodgers]

I never realized until some of these conversations on the DIS how fortunate I've been to live mostly in cities where city code regulates major eyesores and safety hazards like you describe without the need for a HOA that might take issue with the color I paint my front door. Literally every situation you describe in the non-HOA neighborhood would get you a visit from the city code enforcer here, and there are city resources to help with things like taking down potentially hazardous trees for homeowners who might not be able to afford to hire someone. So the choices aren't free for all non-HOA vs. micro-managing HOA; we have a pretty reasonable middle ground without need for a clique of busybodies pondering paint colors or acceptable children's toys.

But that's city, not outside of the city in neighborhoods. There aren't many rules made by the township in the older neighborhoods around me.

I couldn't live in a neighborhood or the city myself. I need to be as far away as possible from the nosy people sticking it in my business.

Unfortunately didn't have any choice these past few years as I didn't have any income for a mortgage any more and only had $10k cash to get somewhere to live. It's not living though, with what has happened with the housing, my life is on pause for another 10 years probably. It's not a place you live in if you can't do the things you do to live.

 

[Colleen27]

Well, if the HOA was doing this to protect the ducks, maybe, but they're not. They don't care about the health of the ducks, they care about being annoyed by ducks hanging around. Personally, I like ducks.

I think that argument breaks down when "I like ducks" comes with the addon of "... so my neighbors should just put up with the poo and the aggressive birds harassing them", which is what happens when wildlife is fed.

But that's city, not outside of the city in neighborhoods. There aren't many rules made by the township in the older neighborhoods around me.

I couldn't live in a neighborhood or the city myself. I need to be as far away as possible from the nosy people sticking it in my business.

Unfortunately didn't have any choice these past few years as I didn't have any income for a mortgage any more and only had $10k cash to get somewhere to live. It's not living though, with what has happened with the housing, my life is on pause for another 10 years probably. It's not a place you live in if you can't do the things you do to live.

Yeah, townships can be free for alls. I use city pretty loosely; it is our municipal/legal structure, but we have about 4000 residents and one business district of just a few blocks so it's really just a cluster of neighborhoods. Around me, the townships are still mostly cornfields and small farms so there are almost no codes... but you're also not likely to care much what your neighbor is doing because of the distance between residences.

 

[tzolkin]

“They’ve never had a mother” … seriously? This woman seems disturbed. People who attribute human feelings and relationships on animals are usually well intentioned, but never actually understand what is in their best interest and wind up causing more harm than good. Geese/ducks/whatever do not need you to step in to be their “mother”.

We had a geese problem in our previous neighborhood so I can definitely see why the neighbors would be bothered enough to want to make her stop feeding them. There was a huge area near the water where the sidewalks were completely covered in feces so you couldn’t walk. The geese would also act aggressively toward children and pets so even staying on the other side of the road was problematic. People were unable to enjoy the water and any of the public spaces nearby. For those whose homes were across the street it became an issue as they started encroaching into their yards as well. Their kids couldn’t play outside, etc. If someone was feeding/encouraging the geese, there would have been some major conflict.

 

[cvjw]

I never realized until some of these conversations on the DIS how fortunate I've been to live mostly in cities where city code regulates major eyesores and safety hazards like you describe without the need for a HOA that might take issue with the color I paint my front door. Literally every situation you describe in the non-HOA neighborhood would get you a visit from the city code enforcer here, and there are city resources to help with things like taking down potentially hazardous trees for homeowners who might not be able to afford to hire someone. So the choices aren't free for all non-HOA vs. micro-managing HOA; we have a pretty reasonable middle ground without need for a clique of busybodies pondering paint colors or acceptable children's toys.

We don’t live in a city. In fact, we just had a vote to form a city and it was overwhelmingly rejected in my county. No one wanted the extra set of rules and taxes that forming a city would bring. It is pretty straightforward with regards to an HOA. Some love them, some hate them. We are thrilled with ours. They handle the big things and don’t sweat the small stuff. We don’t have busy body ladies making decisions. We hire an outside company to manage the HOA violations in accordance with our governing standards.

And, since it is a free country, if you hate an HOA, just don’t live in one.

 

[tvguy]

We hire an outside company to manage the HOA violations in accordance with our governing standards.

This was the problem my friend had. The outside company had a seat on their board. And all money from any fines went to the outside management company. Nobody from the company lived in the community. Seems like a horrible setup.

 

[Disneybuckeye]

This was the problem my friend had. The outside company had a seat on their board. And all money from any fines went to the outside management company. Nobody from the company lived in the community. Seems like a horrible setup.

We have a management company to handle administrative tasks only. That is on the HOA if they allowed the management company to keep any fines paid. Does the management company have a life time contract to do this work? Or does the management company charge a lesser base cost and use fines received to make up the difference/increase profit? The HOA might have done that as a cost savings for those who follow the rules.

I love our HOA. Our grass is cut, snow is removed, landscaping maintained, flower beds cleaned out twice a year, and other common areas kept nice. All I have to do is pay a quaterly fee that costs me less than I would pay someone to do all of this myself.

Yes we have rules, but I do not have to worry about our neighbors painting their house pink, having a chicken coop, or junk cars or commercial vehicles parked all over the place. The only rule changes have been positive IMHO. Allowing solar panels as long as they are not visible from any of our roads (and the way our houses are designed this can be done very easily), and added additional color options for front doors. We also have a monthly social activity.

I would prefer to not live in an are without an HOA,, but this is definitely a to each their own.

 

[cvjw]

This was the problem my friend had. The outside company had a seat on their board. And all money from any fines went to the outside management company. Nobody from the company lived in the community. Seems like a horrible setup.

Our outside company is contract only. No seat on the board. Our actual board members who live in the neighborhood handle all money. Outside company handles all the administrative tasks that the board doesn’t have time to do or wants to do. No one wants to confront a neighbor about a violation - let a paid outside company do that.

 

[RedAngie]

I ocassionally toss old bread out to the birds - I'm such a monster that I guess I should lose my house over it.

I do too. But we have no ducks or geese in the neighborhood. It’s for those little brown hoppy birds. Wrens? But squirrels seem to steal most if it.

I like feeding seagulls at the beach. It’s a big no-no in most places. But I do it before 8am or after 7pm when few other people are around, never at noon 5 feet away from others.

 

[firefly_ris]

I had 4 pet ducks and am someone who would never willingly choose to move into a neighborhood like that. But I assume this woman knew what type of community it was when she bought the house.

 

[BrianL]

I do too. But we have no ducks or geese in the neighborhood. It’s for those little brown hoppy birds. Wrens? But squirrels seem to steal most if it.

I like feeding seagulls at the beach. It’s a big no-no in most places. But I do it before 8am or after 7pm when few other people are around, never at noon 5 feet away from others.

In my experience I have found that it is impossible NOT to feed seagulls at the beach - on those Rhode Island beaches, they'd come swipe a clam cake right out of your tray!

And, yeah, I get that it's not ideal to feed the ducks, my only point is that it's a bit over-the-top to try to force someone out of their home over it. That's my stance here.

 

[shh]

We moved out of a non-HOA neighborhood into an HOA neighborhood about a mile away. The non-HOA neighborhood was anything goes. Want to park a huge, dilapidated boat in your driveway? Go for it. Don’t want to take down a massive dead oak in your yard? Your choice. Want to park your 18 wheeler on the street? Who are we to judge? It was awful. With that mind set, almost no one kept their house or yard up.

Love my HOA neighborhood. We know that everyone has to keep their house and yard up to a certain standard, or they get a violation citation. We enjoy living around others that also take care of their properties.

This. We are surrounded by non HOA areas that all look like crap - dead lawns, car parts strewn everywhere, peeling house paint - and have more crime/vandalism as well. The city doesn't have time or inclination to enforce its own rules. Our neighborhood after decades has held up a LOT better than surrounding non HOA areas.

Having said the above, I would NEVER buy a condo: those condo associations scare the heck out of me. Many are beyond unreasonable - many are outright bullies with way too much power. I've heard way too many horror stories from others as well as what I read.

Luckily our HOA is fairly reasonable about things - but it will hold homeowners to certain standards of maintenance. Do I like paying those monthly HOA fees and getting the occasional nagging note about something we let slip? Not really. But overall, I'm glad there's a team ensuring that our area stays nice and doesn't look like a junkyard.

 

[tzolkin]

And, yeah, I get that it's not ideal to feed the ducks, my only point is that it's a bit over-the-top to try to force someone out of their home over it. That's my stance here.

I'm wondering if that's exactly what the HOA thought too. It says that she has been doing this for a decade and has repeatedly received warnings for violating four different HOA rules. It sounds like this was likely a last resort for someone who is very stubborn and refused to comply with the rules over a period of many years. The HOA may have assumed that once they sued her for the legal fees and threatened to foreclose on her home if she didn't cease that she would simply agree to stop feeding the ducks and that would be the end of it. I think most sane people would say, "this definitely isn't worth losing my house over so maybe I should just stop doing it".

 

[sam_gordon]

Like many things, people will experience or read about "bad" HOAs and declare they're ALL bad. But, as some have pointed out on this thread, many HOAs can be OK, if not "good".

 

[SandyinMonterey]

I am living in my second HOA. Both very different. The first one was in California and to be honest, never heard from them (besides an occassional update or increase fee notice). The one I live in now, opposite side of the coin. I have caught a board member walking down my lower driveway and clearly coming from my backyard, have gotten letters that "blades of grass were coming up thru the pine bark (mind you it was a patch about 6 inches in length). What really, really bothered me was the pandemic really hit, schools closed/grocery stores empty, people dying, etc. the HOA sent out notifications (power wash your house, power wash driveway, replenish pine bark, trim flowers by mailbox, refinish mailbox). I thought that was in really poor taste.

 

[PollyannaMom]

We technically have an HOA, but all it does is collect the money for / pay the taxes on the common land. It's actually a struggle to even get anyone to run it, and that's the way I like it. I would hate to live in one that dictates matching mailboxes and the colors of doors and stuff.

 

[Brett Wyman]

Like many things, people will experience or read about "bad" HOAs and declare they're ALL bad. But, as some have pointed out on this thread, many HOAs can be OK, if not "good".

Good or bad, just not for me. I'll never pay 3/4 of a million dollars for home that I don't have true freedom over. We have a 25 foot travel trailer we park on the side of our house. Completely not allowed in a lot of HOAs.

 

[sam_gordon]

Good or bad, just not for me. I'll never pay 3/4 of a million dollars for home that I don't have true freedom over. We have a 25 foot travel trailer we park on the side of our house. Completely not allowed in a lot of HOAs.

I'll never pay 3/4 of a million dollars for a home.