Hoarders on A&E, do you watch?

[hoosll]

My older sister is a hoarder ... it seemed to sweep over her after she was divorced and raising 2 children (one who has mild CP and autism). She got caught up in the messages surrounding recycling and some how the message of "do not waste anything" became her mantra ... she would go around at work and pull paper from people's wastebaskets and put it in the recycle bins ... then she started doing it to public trash cans ... taking recyclables home. Everything that comes into her house stays, she is also someone who washes fast food cups, keeps straws, condiment packages. She keeps every book, magazine, and newspaper, all the junk mail - "because there may be something important in them that I missed" ... a couple of years ago her water heater burst and the first floor was cleaned out and EVERYTHING was packed up and moved to a storage unit (her second unit) since then the house has filled up again .... I guess it gives her a sense of control

I asked her if she watched the show and she said "yes, it makes me feel better that my house is not as bad as the one's on the show" - Uh, YES it is, Sis.

One of the themes that keeps coming up on the show is the shopping addiction especially when you feel like you "got a great deal" whether you needed it or not. My sister loves going to thrift stores, she loves the hunt.
Then you look at the people's house and it is full of bags of THINGS never taken out of the bag, tags still on them .... I can understand people not wanting to get rid of things because it makes them feel like they are throwing away money ... but to spend the money and then just toss the bag into the abyss ...

I also have an addictive personality trait, I will NEED to get a book or something, if I don't, I really feel anxious... luckily I have no problems throwing things out or donating tons of stuff ...

My nephew has begun to copy his mother's behaviors, especially gathering things from the trash to take home and "recycle" so now there are 2 people in the house hunting, gathering and clinging to their stuff.

 

[minkydog]

I still think you have to try to manage the issue and get in there and discard as much as you can.

So start purging, cleaning and tossing. If they get stressed or mad, oh well.

I tell you what, you tell me where you live and I'll just come over there and start purging YOUR stuff. After all, I might believe that you don't need all your linens, shoes, furniture,etc. I might decide that you can just get over it, because my belief that your house is atrocious takes precidence over your belief that your house is okay. Thence, bring on the garbage truck. We're going to have a purging party!

[/QUOTE=edandcolleen1995;33722395]

One visit by the fire department/ems will get the family members if it is that bad where you have safety issues (ie papers to the roof, no egress, windows blocked etc).

Actually, this is the first thing you have said that I agree with. In fact, we did this when my MIL was living in an assisted living facility. She had piled up stuff to the point that she only had limited space to get to the bathroom. The ALF was very concerned, but since it was her stuff they had no right to go in her room and start tossing stuff. We called the fire department, who came out and looked and the room and measured the walkways. They declared the room a mess BUT not violating fire codes. Therefore she was allowed to continue living in chaos until she was recently moved to a nursing home. So far, we have been able to keep the clutter to a minimum, probably because she no longer has the ability to go out and shop.

Everyone is ignoring the fire hazards, the health code violations and the rest.

Ditto

You cant bully people with mental issues. It just doesnt work. You have to get them recognize the issue then they have to be the ones who want to change. Its much like an addiction program. They have to admit they have a problem then they have to want to change.

They gravitate back to their old ways sometimes even when they dont want to.

Kudos for this tidbit. It is EXACTLY like an addiction. You cannot force someone to overcome an addiction to ANYTHING. You can't shame them, you can't threaten them. Until they come to an understanding of how addiction is affecting them AAAANNDD become willing to undergo the very difficult task of changing EVERYTHING in their lives, they will keep going back to their addiction.

If you had a loved one who was an alcoholic and you threw out all their liquor, they'd just get more. Then they'd start hiding the bottles, avoiding you, and refusing to let you be a part of your life. When they are in their addiction, they truly don't think they are sick.

People who hoard don't think of it as hoarding. They believe they are "saving". To a hoarder, the stress of living with their piled up stuff is far less than the stress and heartache of giving or throwing it away. Until they see themselves as they are, they cannot do it. Most hoarders will not change their ways without some emotional support, usually from therapy. The recidivism rate is enormously high. Because hoarding is like an addiction to food, drugs and alcohol. You can get rid of everything they own and they'll go out and get some more.

 

[browneyes106]

I have watched the show a couple of times. My aunt is sort of a hoarder. She has tons of stuff that she doesn't used boxed up or in plastic Rubbermaid cases. She has a habit of going to craft stores and buying tons of stuff she doesn't use.

 

[robinb]

One of the themes that keeps coming up on the show is the shopping addiction especially when you feel like you "got a great deal" whether you needed it or not. My sister loves going to thrift stores, she loves the hunt.
Then you look at the people's house and it is full of bags of THINGS never taken out of the bag, tags still on them .... I can understand people not wanting to get rid of things because it makes them feel like they are throwing away money ... but to spend the money and then just toss the bag into the abyss ...

I am not much of a shopper but I had an epiphany of sorts when I was cleaning out my mother's house. I realized at least one of the reasons why people enjoy shopping so much. The new stuff at the stores was nice. It was sparkly and new. It was displayed in neat and orderly rows. It had potential. After spending weeks in a house stuffed to the gills with stuff I began to crave that order. That newness. The magic potential that that thing would be just as nice "at home". Of course, the magic seems to wear off somewhere between the store and home and the new stuff just gets integrated with the old stuff.

 

[dicar123]

So far the answer everyone has is basically wait till the person passes (god forbid) and then be careful, look for valuables and toss the rest..

Does not seem like a great gameplan in treating it. I mean you got people eating old/expired food!

They aren't eating the food anymore than they are reading the books, playing the board games or using all the Christmas decorations.

The food is there "just in case" or because it was on sale or because it comforts them to have a full refridgerator.

The back 2/3 of my mil's fridge and freezer is old stuff, the front one third is the new stuff that actually gets eaten. The freezer in the garage is where the really disgusting stuff is and my husband threw a bunch of that out while his mom was gone one day. He was promptly ratted out by other relatives.

We did teach our children early to NEVER go poking around on their own for something to eat at Grandma's house.

 

[minkydog]

We did teach our children early to NEVER go poking around on their own for something to eat at Grandma's house.

Isn't that the truth! Last week when I was at Mother's I had to FORCE her to throw out a 3 week old ham that she was till eating on. She actually wanted to serve it *to me* for supper. Uh, no thank you, Sam I Am. I do not like your 4 month old eggs and green ham.

 

[C.Ann]

While depression and/or OCD can cause these issues, they are often also caused by growing up poor - or being raised by parents who lived through the depression and felt as though they needed to hang on to everything "just in case"..

It's difficult to see people living like that - and they can be helped - but there's no "quick fix" and it takes a long, long time to break those life long tendencies..

 

[agnes!]

I am not much of a shopper but I had an epiphany of sorts when I was cleaning out my mother's house. I realized at least one of the reasons why people enjoy shopping so much. The new stuff at the stores was nice. It was sparkly and new. It was displayed in neat and orderly rows. It had potential. After spending weeks in a house stuffed to the gills with stuff I began to crave that order. That newness. The magic potential that that thing would be just as nice "at home". Of course, the magic seems to wear off somewhere between the store and home and the new stuff just gets integrated with the old stuff.

I hadn't thought of that, but I really think you have something there...the potential, the hopefulness, the "this will make everything *better*" kind of feeling. It's the "future plans", the fun things that will take place in a "tomorrow" that never comes.

agnes!

 

[barkley]

my mom was by no means a hoarder but when she moved into senior housing and we had to clean out her home it was my brothers could'nt believe the amount of 'junk' she had squirlled away as well as the post dated food in the cabinets. maybe it was because i was the much younger child so i had lived with her more in her later years (and after my dad had died) but i totaly understood some of her mindset. i knew with some items it was entirely logical as far as she was concerned-

paperwork (warranties, receipts, cancelled checks....)-she was of a generation where calling a store or buisness and them having the info. at their fingertips via a database was unheard of. therefore she kept every scrap of paper 'just in case'. photos-she kept everyone anyone ever sent her. it was because she was of the era where photos were expensive-you went to a photography studio and paid for each copy. when cameras became popular for ownership there was the cost of the camera, the film and the processing (and extra copies cost more). i have family members who are thrilled that my mom had this habit-when i went through the boxes and boxes of them i contacted some of the cousins who had no copies of their school pictures let alone candids taken at their communions or birthday parties. they were thrilled to receive these (and one cousin in particular was in tears to be in receipt of the letters her late father had written my mom and dad during his time overseas in ww2).

old butter/cool-whip/plastic containers-they ARE re-usable. she could'nt see putting out money for tupperware or the like when she had it 'free' by virtue of another purchase (though she obviously did'nt need dozens and dozens).

food-for decades she bought to feed an entire family. she watched her budget and the ads and knew what a 'good deal' was. it killed her to consider buying smaller size portions at what she perceived as 'rip off prices'. she would therefore buy larger packages believing she would use them up but rarely did. when stuff was on a 'great sale' she stocked up, but she stocked up based on her family size shopping habits, not what she needed for just herself-so stuff post dated.


with my mom, when she was younger she would routinely purge the cabinets periodically (with the non perishables it would be 'spring cleaning' so at least once a year)-as she got older it just did'nt happen and since her saving habits remained in tact stuff piled up. so for some it's not truely hoarding it's just what can happen with habit and age.

my mom was'nt a shopper so i can only blame my brothers for the fact that she had multiple identical appliances-they would buy her new ones as gifts and did'nt take into consideration that due to her frugal nature it would never occur to her to toss out the still working old one (she would stick it in a cabinet -'just in case the new one breaks down'-mom had enough just in case appliances to stock a hardware store).

 

[hoosll]

I hadn't thought of that, but I really think you have something there...the potential, the hopefulness, the "this will make everything *better*" kind of feeling. It's the "future plans", the fun things that will take place in a "tomorrow" that never comes.

agnes!

I call my sister a "fatal optomist" - some day she will have the time to read ALL the newspapers and magazines she's saving... today will be the day there is no traffic so she'll arrive on time ... if she puts off handling something it will go away ... if she drives towards that cliff she'll run out of gas before she flies off it.

It drives me nuts that she never examines the possibility of failure or human intervention. Of course things will go the way she wants them to go. All of her life my parents complained that she was brilliant but had no common sense.

Some day I will have to go to California and help her daughter clean out the house ... I cannot even stand to go in now as it gives me such claustrophobia ...

 

[HelenePA]

That is the part that folks are just glossing over.. Everyone is saying don't touch their stuff. Don't do this, don't do that. But nobody is offering any viable solution.

Everyone is ignoring the fire hazards, the health code violations and the rest.

Can't sweep that under the rug.

What you dont understand is to us its garbage, trash, junk clutter what ever ya wanna call it.. to them its memories, "just in case", stuff that is "good", stuff that they will use one day. No one is ignoring the "rest" I just dont think any of us have any solutions. Its not just as easy as you make it seem to just throw it all out when they aren't home.. it might take a team of 10 for a week to clean out some of these places.. Honestly you'll never understand and that's okay I'm happy you wont have to deal with it..

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

I only watch because it really inspires me to clean. Kind of like seeing a terrible accident makes you check your seat belt.

Yes, I watch it for the same reason. I turn it on, and by the first commercial I stand up, look around and go "Argh!" and clean for the next few hours-it's like looking at your own house with fresh eyes.

I'm not a hoarder; I tend to be a minimalist, but I am totally guilty of ignoring dustballs until they evolve to higher life forms So this show works for me.

I used to watch "How Clean is Your House" on BBC America, but the attitude on that show was that people were lazy or poor cleaners, and it never stuck. The Hoarders show has made me much more sensitive to friends/family members with hoarding issues.

From what I've seen in real life, hoarding and obsessive shopping seem to go hand-in-hand, and people who crawl thrift stores/clearance bins/yard sales may also have hoarding problems on the horizon.

I've seen two issues-the thrill of the "score" when you buy something at at a super discount (I'm totally guilty of that), whether you need it or not, and attaching sentimental value to objects so you can't throw them out when they're not useful anymore-like a boarding pass for someone who has passed away. I've been doing the No Buy thread to help stop my habit of "sport shopping". I'm lucky that I don't attach sentimental value to objects. Having both those compulsions must be very difficult...

I've found a scanner to be very helpful in instances with family members who hoard paperwork-encouraging them to scan it in so they can throw it away.

It's still very difficult for them. Sometimes we have to scan it in and print it out so they can throw away the original. I know, it's weird, but then they can throw away the scanned copy a little later because they know it's in the computer.

 

[lajones81]

I think you are so right! I think it as the *first* hoarder that Oprah had on, a few years ago (I believe the lady was a real estate agent). Her house was a mess. The mental health professional guest said that many hoarders are perfectionists. Oprah just COULD NOT get how that could be true. They said that many hoarders are so afraid of making the wrong decision (where to put things, what to throw out, etc) that instead, they do nothing with the stuff and it just piles up.

I can easily relate to the comparison that the mental health professional guest stated. Some days are tough...

 

[ADisneyQueen]

I just watched this for the first time last night and now I am cleaning out my dd8 bedroom. She doesn't like to get rid of much and has way too many toys and art projects.
I'm not sure what I think about the doctor wanting the little boy to get rid of some of his stuffed animals. My dd would never do that, unless it was one that she thought was ugly. I never did either as a kid. I think some kids give a personality and name to a stuffed animal and then they can't get drid of it b/c it is like a friend to them. I throw stuff away when my dd is at school and doesn't miss it. She will, however, give some things away to "poor children" who don't have anything- a charity place in our town. Maybe that would have worked for the little boy.

 

[Chicago526]

I just watched this for the first time last night and now I am cleaning out my dd8 bedroom. She doesn't like to get rid of much and has way too many toys and art projects.
I'm not sure what I think about the doctor wanting the little boy to get rid of some of his stuffed animals. My dd would never do that, unless it was one that she thought was ugly. I never did either as a kid. I think some kids give a personality and name to a stuffed animal and then they can't get drid of it b/c it is like a friend to them. I throw stuff away when my dd is at school and doesn't miss it. She will, however, give some things away to "poor children" who don't have anything- a charity place in our town. Maybe that would have worked for the little boy.

I think the mom in that case found a happy compromise. She kept the "fluffies" that she removed from the room in a garbage bag ("time capsule") and if her son didn't ask for the missing fluffies after a few months, she was planning on donating them. Now, the mom had her own hoarding issues and finding space to store the fluffies was a challenge, but it seems like a good way to handle it. If the kid had an emotional melt down after finding a beloved fluffy was missing, she'd have the ability to get it back for him. If he forgot he even had the missing fluffies, then she could toss it all a few months later. They tried to get the child to pick and choose, and the poor kid looked like his heart was being ripped out. This seemed like the way to go, because when he saw his cleaned out room, he seemed okay with it.

 

[Jennasis]

That is the part that folks are just glossing over.. Everyone is saying don't touch their stuff. Don't do this, don't do that. But nobody is offering any viable solution.

Everyone is ignoring the fire hazards, the health code violations and the rest.

Can't sweep that under the rug.

Serious therapy/counseling/meds would be a step in the right direction, but you can't FORCE someone into treatment, be it for hoarding or alcoholism. They have to want the help.

When my sister announced to my parents that she was anorexic/bulemic (just before going away to college for the first time and after I found out, confronted her and threatened to tell them if she didn't), my dad's response was "Just stop throwing up. Simple as that. Oh yeah...and eat!"

It doesn't work that way. These people are suffering from serious mental/behavioral disorders.

So what you are asking is "What CAN be done to step in and save these hoarders from themselves?" the answr is, sadly, not much. About as much as can be done to stop an alcoholic, or someone on drugs, or someone suicidal. Stage an intervention, offer help and support, BEG if you must. but ultimately they have to want and accept the help.

As you pointed out, sometimes in extreme cases, the state will step in due to fire code violations or health code violations. Sometimes the person will lose their families to CPS or divorce. It's called hitting rock bottom. Sometimes it makes them want help and sometimes it doesn.t

It is so sad. Whether you "believe in it" as a bonafide disorder or not is irrelevant (because it is). The comparison to cancer was not to point out how BAD the disorder is, but merely to point our that it is as REAL a thing a person can be afflicted with as any other disease or disorder.

thank you.

 

[Tantor]

I'm sure everyone with elderly hoarders in their family-tree knows this, but I'll repeat it again here...
When the that sad time comes, GO THROUGH EVERYTHING. Every pocket, every drawer, every cardboard box, every envelope, every shoe & slipper, every sugar canister, every coffee-cup and so on. Do NOT assume that because junk is on the top, that it's junk all the way to the bottom. As some up-thread have mentioned, Hoarders can be afraid of losing their stuff and will often secret away valuables in odd places... like pockets, in little gift-jewelry boxes, taped to the back of dresser-drawers, *inside* mattresses and pillows... you get the idea.

agnes!

very true....we found $1000.00 socked away in my mom's bedroom among the piles and piles of paper.

 

[tink20]

I've caught the show once or twice (my parents are mild hoarders). Anyway I think the new show last night was a man who lives in my town. They had said something about him being on the show on our local news. He faces jail if he can't get it cleaned up. I hope it works out for him.

My mom told me that she knows her and my dad have a problem, and she thinks it comes from them being really poor as children, so they save everything, they think everything has some value. But you can walk in their house, ( except all three of the bedrooms (we used as kids) are now junk rooms)

 

[Morganpics]

What you dont understand is to us its garbage, trash, junk clutter what ever ya wanna call it.. to them its memories, "just in case", stuff that is "good", stuff that they will use one day. No one is ignoring the "rest" I just dont think any of us have any solutions. Its not just as easy as you make it seem to just throw it all out when they aren't home.. it might take a team of 10 for a week to clean out some of these places.. Honestly you'll never understand and that's okay I'm happy you wont have to deal with it..

You understand the situation really well. There really is no answer, and we know we are not dealing with the situation as we probably should, but there it is. I am not usually one to walk away from a situation, part of my issue is that it is my DH's parents, not mine. Not that I don't want to deal with it, but there are 4 siblings that have to work it out, and I'm not one of them.

 

[KSchwagg86]

The one with the old man who kept crying broke my heart