HOA, is this legal?

[turkeymama]

We live in a subdivision with a very involved HOA. In fact, there are many such subdivisions where we live. We appreciate them for what they do, but I think they may have overstepped some legal bounds here. I got an e-mail today, along with most of the other residents of our subdivision, that was in reference to delinquent fees. I knew that we weren't behind because I remembered turning our check in this month. However, I opened the e-mail anyway because I thought I could have been mistaken (I wasn't, for the record). I was shocked when I opened the attachment and realized what it was. The HOA board decided to publicly shame residents who were seriously delinquent on their dues. They listed the homeowner's name, address, and the amount of money they owed. Then they suggested we "talk" to these neighbors in an attempt to "get them back on track" with their dues.

First of all, I'm pretty sure this is illegal, and even if it wasn't, our bylaws are written to protect a homeowner's privacy in just such situations. This was confirmed to me by a previous board member.

Second of all, do they really think this is going to help them get their money? Do they really think the rest of us are going to go talk to these people about their delinquent fees? Um, no way. It seems the only residents who didn't get the e-mail were former board members and the delinquent homeowners.

Thoughts about the legality of this?

 

[Silent1CB]

Towns post lists in the newspaper of people behind on their taxes and how much they are behind.

I would want to know if my neighbors are not paying their share of services we all use. Whether it be taxes or HOA fees.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I don't know. I was a trustee for an HOA in the past and all we did was put a lien on the properties.

I suppose it is public information for your subdivision members. Pull out your bylaws and read them. The thing about bylaws is that they can be so vague.

We never published delinquent members but I do not remember if we were obligated to keep it private.

At the end of the day what your board members did was inflammatory and certainly may have breached some ethics there, but probably not illegal in the criminal sense. Read your bylaws and it will give you the answer.

 

[turkeymama]

I don't know. I was a trustee for an HOA in the past and all we did was put a lien on the properties.

I suppose it is public information for your subdivision members. Pull out your bylaws and read them. The thing about bylaws is that they can be so vague.

We never published delinquent members but I do not remember if we were obligated to keep it private.

At the end of the day what your board members did was inflammatory and certainly may have breached some ethics there, but probably not illegal in the criminal sense. Read your bylaws and it will give you the answer.

Second-hand information here, but I was told it was against the bylaws. Same person also told me the previous board members consulted with an attorney and was told they couldn't legally publish the information. I have no reason to doubt this person, but it is still second-hand information.

Obviously, I don't have a dog in this fight, but it bothered me that they handled it so poorly. AND suggested other homeowners confront these people.

 

[Becky2005]

I guess it would depend if they are bound by the same laws as other creditors, etc... Banks can't call your neighbors and go "Hey your neighbor owes us tons of money, here's the records, go be our collection agent and harrass them". The do try ways to skirt around this but they can't publish the information like that.

I don't know if HOA are bound by the same legal standards though as I've never been part of one.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Second-hand information here, but I was told it was against the bylaws. Same person also told me the previous board members consulted with an attorney and was told they couldn't legally publish the information. I have no reason to doubt this person, but it is still second-hand information.

Obviously, I don't have a dog in this fight, but it bothered me that they handled it so poorly. AND suggested other homeowners confront these people.

Bylaws are really weak to be honest. Found that out.

It has to specifically state in the bylaws in plain english that the board cannot disclose delinquent members to the the association. It has to be extremely specific otherwise it is up for interpretation.

That was certainly a crappy thing for the board to do. I don't know what I would do in your situation. You do have a dog in this fight. Your board has gone rogue.

 

[turkeymama]

Bylaws are really weak to be honest. Found that out.

It has to specifically state in the bylaws in plain english that the board cannot disclose delinquent members to the the association. It has to be extremely specific otherwise it is up for interpretation.

That was certainly a crappy thing for the board to do. I don't know what I would do in your situation. You do have a dog in this fight. Your board has gone rogue.

That's funny, I used the exact language to describe them today. We are actually listing our house in the next week or two because we are leaving the area. I would hate for word to get out that the board has decided to act this way. I know I wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood if I thought the hoa was going to violate my privacy. To my knowledge, they have already placed the liens on the homes in question so I knew that would have been public record. We really do have a nice little subdivision. I hate that the new board members are acting this way.

 

[Katie's Butterflies]

I don't know if that is legal or not. It depends on what the CC&R (or whatever it's called for you) says.

However, our HOA announces at each meeting which houses are overdue in fees.

Of course, our HOA breaks so many rules it's not even funny. We found out though it's nearly impossible to stop them legally.

 

[mom2d&b]

Our board discussed posting those that are late on our website. Yes, this was discussed as a way to "shame" people into paying. The thought process is that if everyone knew who was not "pulling their weight" it would not be a shock when the assessments are raised to cover the late assessments. We have 115 homes. 63 are late by amounts ranging between $5 - $3,000. With the difficulty collecting the assessments it has put us in a very bad financial situation. Those paying every quarter are getting very frustrated.

 

[Art 1]

I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if it's legal or not. You should call a lawyer in you area to find out if you want to know. Your board may have a lawyer that gave them the green light.

Personally, I think it's a wonderful idea and am going to suggest this to my HOA.

 

[kydisneyfans]

I completely stay away for HOA neighborhoods to begin with.

 

[MommyJack]

If the email went out to members of the HOA only, I doubt it was illegal. Tacky, tastless and mean spirited yes, but probably legal.

 

[DVC~OKW~96]

If our HOA did that, we would be writing a letter of disapproval to the board without fail.

That is completely inappropriate to humiliate someone who, for all they know may actually be on the brink of losing their home. It's a tough world out there right now, with no lack of foreclosures.

I would NOT want to know my neighbor's private business, and I absolutely would NEVER presume to discuss what they should do financially with them. That's just ridiculous.

I'm sure not all of those in arrears are in fear of losing their homes, but that's not the point. I'd not want them to turn on me, and I surely wouldn't condone their having turned on others.

 

[MommyJack]

Personally, I think it's a wonderful idea and am going to suggest this to my HOA.

I don't mean to start something here, but in these economic times I think we should all be giving eachother a break. While it's true some people are just dead beats. If someone can't pay their HOA dues, how is making that public info going to help? All this does is shame people who are probably having a miserable time of it anyway. It's sad.

Maybe it would have been nice if the HOA said "These are your neighbors who appear to be in trouble financially. Go talk to them, see if they're OK, and if there is anything you can do to help."

 

[aprilgail2]

I completely stay away for HOA neighborhoods to begin with.

Me too!! I had really never heard of them before the Disboards! They seem to be just a bunch of power hungry little people making rules just to make them....no painting your house unless WE say the color is ok, keep your garbage cans inside (BLECH), no taking down shrubs unless WE say you can, no parking your car on the street.......sounds like it is living in a dictatorship not a neighborhood!

 

[ICF]

It may be many things, but illegal probably isnt one of them.

As was mentioned above, newspapers print notices all the times of people not paying taxes. Our small town paper even prints the arrests in there each week.

The issue is, if a family doesnt pay their HOA fees then the board doesnt have money to provide upkeep to the neighborhoods facilities...be it a play area, pool, club house, etc. I can agree with giving people a break, up to a point. However, eventually action neds to be taken against people that are way behind.

Im not part of an HOA so I dont know what all they can do, but if they can embarass a few to pay I guess I dont think its that big of a deal as its not fair to those that pay their fees to see their neighborhood fall behind because of a few slackers.

 

[dawson5]

Me too!! I had really never heard of them before the Disboards! They seem to be just a bunch of power hungry little people making rules just to make them....no painting your house unless WE say the color is ok, keep your garbage cans inside (BLECH), no taking down shrubs unless WE say you can, no parking your car on the street.......sounds like it is living in a dictatorship not a neighborhood!

I think it depends on your subdivision. Our HOA was put in place before they built this neighborhood. We're part of about five or six planned neighborhoods. We were given a copy of the by-laws before moving in, we knew what to expect when we moved here. I wouldn't classify the people on the board as power-hungry though. Just kind of like the school hall monitors, they want everyone else to live by the same rules that were put in place at the inception of the neighborhood. Ours are elected also, you don't like it, show up and vote.

OP, it is a pretty mean-spirited thing the the HOA did, but when you look at the financial papers, I can sympathize. It's not nice, but do you want to pay for the neighbors? That's basically what it amounts to. If they don't pay, the burden has to be picked up by the others. I love my neighbors, but I'm not sure I love them enough to pay for their HOA dues. I don't think the way they approached it will help anything, but I am guessing this is a last effort to trying and get people to pay up. I would hope there is an upcoming meeting so that you can get a full assessment of what is going on. I just can't imagine any HOA doing because people are a month behind, I would bet several months and it might jeopardize services that are offered.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

Me too!! I had really never heard of them before the Disboards! They seem to be just a bunch of power hungry little people making rules just to make them....no painting your house unless WE say the color is ok, keep your garbage cans inside (BLECH), no taking down shrubs unless WE say you can, no parking your car on the street.......sounds like it is living in a dictatorship not a neighborhood!

No, HOA's are not "power hungry people" most of the time.

It is a thankless volunteer job for the subdivision you live in. You will be surprised to learn that when a subdivision is built the city may require you to have an HOA. You have common areas to maintain.

There are grass areas to mow and maintain, insurance you have to carry for your subdivision, structures to contend with like pools, paths, or tennis courts, etc. and other little details for your neighborhood.

For example when someone took out a section of fence in a car accident, I had to get estimates, file the claim, make sure the work was done, etc....

 

[LoraJ]

As the treasurer of a small condo association, I have no problem with what they did.

I cannot tell you how frustrating it is when people do not pay their maintenance dues. One of the units is trying to sell and this hurts him since a chunk of the reserves is missing because people don't pay. One guy does not pay for months and I am tired of hounding him. A couple of other units seem to skip a month and then pay one month, skip the next month but pay the next. It's unfair to those of us who always pay on time. It's unfair to the guy trying to sell his unit and the buyers getting denied by the mortgage company because our reserve is not big enough.

Not one of these people behind have come to me claiming a hardship.

At our last condo association meeting it was asked if everyone was up to date and I pointed out the guy who was 5 months behind at that point. He gave me a check that did not bounce the next day. He hasn't paid since though.

We are thinking of putting our spreadsheet that tracks payments up publicly where everyone can view, hoping the same thing, that it will get people to pay.

Even the condo president is behind in payments. I just wonder if my neighbors are the same with their mortgage companies and other creditors.

 

[turkeymama]

Our HOA does take care of common areas, they are responsible for upkeep of all front lawns, we have a clubhouse and pool, along with a children's playground. We live in a gated subdivision (also very common around this area, we discovered) so they have to maintain those, which apparently break when teenagers hang onto them while they swing open and shut. Who knew! Out of over 200 homes, less than 10 are in arrears. I'm not sure those few homes are really putting such a financial strain on the HOA, but then again, I'm not on the board. I really have no idea. I do know this; I have no intention of confronting anyone about their delinquent dues. That's just crazy.