Hiring Managers - Counteroffers - Update

[mickeyboat]

Hey hiring managers in the know. I could use your help.

My job is going to end shortly and I have been looking for a new job for a couple of months. I got an offer for a job I think I would really like, but the salary and benefits are substantially less than what I am earning now, and I would like to negotiate a bit. What are your thoughts about counter-offers. Do employers expect them? Or is the economy so bad that people just take whatever they are offered?

From the research I did on line and through others in the industry, the offer was less than standard for the position. Vacation time offered was also minimum, and it is important to me. I was the only candidate considered for the position, I am highly recommended and they are looking for someone to start right away.

What do you think?

 

[eeyore65]

Always negotiate. The worst they can say is no - or that it is our final and only offer. In this economy, vacation is easier to give then salary. Know what is most important to you and ask nicely. Start by saying how happy you are to receive the offer and how much value you think you can add - as specifically as you can. Then say that you would like to talk about the salary and benefits. Tell them the position is less then you are currently making and could they increase it by $x or x% (whichever sounds less). Then say that you are accustomed to x weeks of vacation. Would it be possible to start at this level? I am never offended when people ask and how they do it is usually a sign of how well we will work together and their professionalism.

 

[kydisneyfans]

Hiring manager here.

In this environment, I cannot take counteroffers. The offer is what my budget allows. There are others who want that position if you do not.

Sorry to be blunt, but this is much different than 5 years ago.

 

[tomthebarncat]

I agree you may be shooting yourself in the foot by doing this. The offer is what it is and you can either accept and then prove your worth for next years evaluations, etc or you can be unemployed when your current job goes away!

 

[DisneyBamaFan]

Hiring manager, as well. I would ask if there is room for negotiation. If not, be prepared to accept the job or walk away immediately. I have never been bothered by a person looking out for their own best interests during the hiring process (it means that the person is confident), but waffling may make you look bad...

 

[Pakey]

Another hiring manager here. I would never intentionally lowball an offer to a candidate hoping that I can get them for "less". What I offer is what I'm willing to pay and I would not be inclined to negotiate.

I would not be offended if a candidate asked but my answer would be "no".

 

[MOMTOCUTESTDOGEVER]

Another hiring manager here. I would never intentionally lowball an offer to a candidate hoping that I can get them for "less". What I offer is what I'm willing to pay and I would not be inclined to negotiate.

I would not be offended if a candidate asked but my answer would be "no".

I am also a hiring manager and I 100% agree with what Pakey wrote.

 

[mouseforcemom]

I agree with Pakey as well. In this economy you're not only looking out for your bottom line but so are the companies and the HR departments. We send out an offer and that is what several people, including the owners, have agreed that we are comfortable paying and still keeping x number of employees on the payroll and taking into bonuses for current staff that are on the horizon etc.

 

[marlynnp]

Another 'No" on the salary but vacation is negotiable.

 

[Nette]

Well, I'm not a hiring manager, but I went through this recently (as in June 2009). I expected to be laid off from IBM, so started looking elsewhere for a job. Lo and behold, I found a job at the place I've been trying to get into for years... and then they offered me less than my salary at IBM. Not a HUGE amount less, but enough to be noticeable in my paycheck, especially since my share of medical insurance would triple from what I was paying at IBM. I called them and said, look, I really want to work with you, but I am making X amount now and your benefits packages will cost me Y amount more, and I would like for you to at least match my old salary. Truly, they were horrified that they had offered me less than I was making. And they asked what it would take for me to accept. I didn't go nuts. I told them a figure that was just a tiny bit higher than my IBM salary and they were happy to do it.

Now, the new company is a big company, and the difference in the two salaries made a big difference to MY paycheck, but was really a drop in the bucket for the new company.

You can only ask...

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Well, I'm not a hiring manager, but I went through this recently (as in June 2009). I expected to be laid off from IBM, so started looking elsewhere for a job. Lo and behold, I found a job at the place I've been trying to get into for years... and then they offered me less than my salary at IBM. Not a HUGE amount less, but enough to be noticeable in my paycheck, especially since my share of medical insurance would triple from what I was paying at IBM. I called them and said, look, I really want to work with you, but I am making X amount now and your benefits packages will cost me Y amount more, and I would like for you to at least match my old salary. Truly, they were horrified that they had offered me less than I was making. And they asked what it would take for me to accept. I didn't go nuts. I told them a figure that was just a tiny bit higher than my IBM salary and they were happy to do it.

Now, the new company is a big company, and the difference in the two salaries made a big difference to MY paycheck, but was really a drop in the bucket for the new company.

You can only ask...

This--simply be honest if you need to negotiate so that you aren't shooting yourself in the foot by getting a job that really does not support your needs.

DH got laid off Nov 1 and began a new job, out of state Dec 1. Within a week--I don't know what happened, but it was like a miracle and they wanted to figure out how to keep my husband.

We did not relocate him nor could we on the provided salary and our current housing situation.

But they realized they got something good I guess--or at least good enough to make some adjustments.

We figured we had no room to beg and honestly, my husband did negotiate a slighly higher rate than what he originially offered. But the whole deal was much lower than what he had been making. (IMHO his prior job overpaid everyone and thus I strongly feel it contributed to the ultimate decision to lay everyone off.)

But in the long run, it was not enough and DH really had to continue looking for work.

The job he took b/c he had to is now a job he wishes to keep because he wants to.

While the job market is not too hot right now, there is a high need for someone in his niche and there is incredible difficulty in finding people who know how to do what he does. What he does is now govt mandate and comnpanies do not have the option of not doing what he does.

So yes, by all means do not be afraid to ask in a professional manner for an increase. Sure, in this market beggars cannot be choosers and you have to be careful to not be greedy. However, there is nothing wrong with any kind of negotiation.

In the end, my husband will have negotiated twice with this company.

In about March or so, he will see a significant increase in pay which will make it possible to not lose our home while living at his new location. In the end everybody wins.

It's when you appear greedy that a simple inquiry will reflect poorly on you.

 

[VickiVM]

If the job is highly specialized, then confidently ask for what you are looking for and be prepared with an answer if they will not budge.

Another thing that you may be able to negotiate is a raise in 90 days or so dependent on performance. AND get that in writing.

 

[bumbershoot]

Soooo many answers, not all of them agreeing with each other.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Soooo many answers, not all of them agreeing with each other.

Actually that's not true. The OP asked a question of the hiring managers on the DIS. All of the hiring managers have given the same answer. The only different answers have come from two people who've successfully negotiated a higher starting rate - EMPLOYEES, not hiring managers.

I also think a lot depends on what state the person who is giving advice resides in. Based on my experience here in Michigan, there are thousands of unemployed people willing to do any job that's offered to them and at least 10 (if not more) who are just as qualified as you are for any one position.

If someone here were to come back with a counter-offer to a job offer, the company's response could very well be, "I'm sorry but it sounds like we aren't a good fit for each other. Since you're turning down the original offer, we thank you for your time and will move on to the next candidate. Best of luck in your search!"

 

[supercarrie]

It depends very much on the type of job you do (in demand or not?), how senior you are, and your location.

I am a recruiter for a management consultancy. We do not typically issue counter offers because we obtain salary expectations in advance of the final interview, and advise the candidate accordingly if there is not a "fit" there.

I would approach it this way - if you feel confident they "really" liked you, and that your job is in demand, you are not simply a "dime a dozen" candidate, I would ask, very politely, if there is room for negotiation. If there is, you are in luck. Otherwise, take the original offer.

 

[anniemae]

No way, not in this job market. I would take the position and in 6 months or so talk to your boss and ask for a raise or more vaca. That way you can document your contributions and have more of a "leg to stand on" so to speak.

 

[NotUrsula]

Not in HR, but I share an office space with them -- does that count?

Seriously, I think it depends on the industry and what sector you are in, as well as the situation in the local economy.

In some industries lowballing is a standard tactic -- law comes to mind. If you are being hired for your negotiation skills, they want to see you use them. Naturally, any offer not yet accepted can be withdrawn.

My field mostly is in the public sector, and in that case, the pay grade is what it is, and the same usually goes for the vacation. However, in the public sector the benefits almost always are better than the pay.

 

[mickeyboat]

I decided to go ahead and ask for a slight salary increase and additional vacation time. I figured the worst they would do is say no.

I heard back today and they met me half way on both.

So I start my new job March 1. I am so excited!

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and advice.

 

[sue1013]

Great News!

 

[Metsfan520]

Congrats!