Hillary Supporters unite part 2; no bashing please

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:) hello!


Muslims barred from picture at Obama event

Two Muslim women at Barack Obama's rally in Detroit on Monday were barred from sitting behind the podium by campaign volunteers seeking to prevent the women's headscarves from appearing in photographs or on television with the candidate.

The campaign has apologized to the women, both Obama supporters who said they felt betrayed by their treatment at the rally.

"This is of course not the policy of the campaign. It is offensive and counter to Obama's commitment to bring Americans together and simply not the kind of campaign we run," said Obama spokesman Bill Burton. "We sincerely apologize for the behavior of these volunteers."

Building a human backdrop to a political candidate, a set of faces to appear on television and in photographs, is always a delicate exercise in demographics and political correctness. Advance staffers typically pick supporters out of a crowd to reflect the candidate's message..........

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0608/11168.html

:rolleyes1

Well gee that was not nice....dont think an apology would do it for me...sometimes it seems like Obama's campaign has some bully's in it::yes::

Does anyone recall this?


http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_facts_about_nafta-gate.html

Obama’s stance for campaigning in Ohio had been:


Democratic Debate in Cleveland Transcript
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/the_facts_about_nafta-gate.html


And in response to the leak from the Canadian television:




But now Obama says this:
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/mag...ma.fortune/index.htm?section=money_topstories


After that he does have to back track a bit as it is being pointed out to him his stance is a bit different now than it was just a couple of months ago and he has to explain with this:



And Bill Burton follows-up with:



But I have to agree with the article’s columnist when he states:



This new tone is too similar to what the CTV stated that Obama’s aide told the Canadian Prime Minister, you know the NAFTA discussion they 'didn't have'.

HMMMMMMMMM

Hi folks - been away for a while - ironically with some fellow Hillary supporters who aren't happy about voting for Obama either ......

Here's an interesting article about Hillary.

http://nymag.com/news/politics/47837/

Thanks for the article...i have been so busy with last 3 week school stuff that i have not been here very much either....
 
Hey Jarn. I hope that you're doing OK.

As for Obama, I don't really have a problem with him being conciliatory at times because let's face it, he's learning as he goes. However, I think he's overdoing it somewhat and it's hard to always know where he stands on some issues. :(
 
Obama on NAFTA now:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/18/magazines/fortune/easton_obama.fortune/index.htm

In an interview with Fortune to be featured in the magazine's upcoming issue, the presumptive Democratic nominee backed off his harshest attacks on the free trade agreement and indicated he didn't want to unilaterally reopen negotiations on NAFTA.

"Sometimes during campaigns the rhetoric gets overheated and amplified," he conceded, after I reminded him that he had called NAFTA "devastating" and "a big mistake," despite nonpartisan studies concluding that the trade zone has had a mild, positive effect on the U.S. economy.

***
From his website today under 'fact check':
http://factcheck.barackobama.com/

BUT OBAMA HAS BEEN CONSISTENT:
HE WOULD NOT REPEAL NAFTA...


Obama Would Not Scrap NAFTA. The AP reported, "Obama was also pressed on trade deals like the North American Free Trade Agreement. He said he disagrees with more liberal rivals such as Rep. Dennis Kucinich, who want to scrap the deal. A better approach is tougher enforcement of labor and environmental standards, he said." [AP, 9/22/07]


***
When this story broke in March:
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080227/dems_nafta_080227/20080227/

The staff member reassured Wilson that the criticisms would only be campaign rhetoric, and should not be taken at face value.

But Tuesday night in Ohio, where NAFTA is blamed for massive job losses, Obama said he would tell Canada and Mexico "that we will opt out unless we renegotiate the core labour and environmental standards."

***
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080227/POLITICS01/802270419&imw=Y

Despite those quotes from the past, each said they would demand changes to strengthen labor regulations and environmental standards in the deal, and invoke a provision allowing nations to opt out of it.

"We should use the hammer of the opt-out as leverage to make sure we get labor and environmental standards that are enforceable," Obama said.

***
This is great. This last part was on his website and I missed it!

Obama Said That He Would Use The Hammer Of A Potential Opt-Out As Leverage To Renegotiate Labor And Environmental Standards For NAFTA. Obama said, "I will make sure that we renegotiate, in the same way that Senator Clinton talked about. And I think actually Senator Clinton's answer on this one is right. I think we should use the hammer of a potential opt-out as leverage to ensure that we actually get labor and environmental standards that are enforced. And that is not what has been happening so far." [Ohio Debate, 2/26/08]

***
So he posts on his website that he's not going to repeal NAFTA and on the same exact page says he's going to use the threat of opting out to get what he wants. Hopefully those guys in Mexico and Canada don't have super secret spies to figure out what he's up to! This plan is genius.

***
The best thing about Obama is if you don't like his position, just sit back and wait a few days. It seems the Clinton camp was right about Obama taking a position for political gain then telling world leaders something else. But of course this can all be answered with Bosnia. It was the answer for everything.
 

Hey Jarn. I hope that you're doing OK.

As for Obama, I don't really have a problem with him being conciliatory at times because let's face it, he's learning as he goes. However, I think he's overdoing it somewhat and it's hard to always know where he stands on some issues. :(

That is what worries me....he is trying to hard instead of smart IMO and his words are catching up to him. In all fairness I dont have a clue where him or McCain really stand. With Hillary I did. Will be nice to know who will be running things if Obama gets in. If he takes Kerry as his VP he will loose any chance of turning me around to vote. At this point I am opting out of voting.

He i(Obama)s so not new politics...
 
Reading elsewhere, I came across this post by a person who was responding to an attack from an OS. Obviously, I'm one of the HS that is trying to determine if McCain will have my vote come November since Obama wont. I hope this person doesn't mind that I'm posting this here since I don't have any way of contacting him/her but this poster was pointing out why McCain would be a better choice over Obama and I liked what they had to say:

We like McCainicare better than Obama’s health plan which will create a bureaucratic nightmare, line the pockets of his Insurance and Pharmaceutical friends and actually prevent true UHC from being implemented for nearly a decade.

We trust McCain to responsibly end the war and safely bring our troops home more than Obama who apparently has no idea how our military works, is misinformed on foreign policy and who’s positions are shifting daily.

We trust McCain’s open-minded economic proposals more than Obama’s latest backflip on NAFTA and his advisers who are all Chicago School neoconservatives like Jason Furman and Austin Goolsbee.

McCain has called for lifting the 27-year moratorium on domestic drilling and has a stronger energy and environmental record than Obama. Obama voted YES for the 2005 Energy Bill written by Dick Cheney and many energy lobbyists like Exelon. This gave $27 billion to oil companies while Americans are paying $4 a gal for gas. Obama opposed the gas tax holiday while he voted for it two years ago in the state legislature.

Obama claims to support women’s rights, but he fixed an election with Democratic party bosses like he did in Chicago when he forced a popular incumbent and woman off the ballot to run uncontested. He has more present votes than any other member of the body politic, and five of those present votes were about abortion. He voted in favor of early release from prison for sex offenders, and he was the LONE vote.

McCain supports strict constructionist SCOTUS justices which does not necessarily mean RvW would be threatened. It will take two appointments over the next four years to overturn the original ruling. If Bush couldn’t do it in 2004, McCain is even less likely to.

Women should vote against sexism and in favor of social, economic and political equality of the sexes. Anyone with a corporate background will see through the Democratic party promoting a younger, less qualified male over a woman who could do the job better. Use your angry vote to make your voice heard and Vote John McCain.
 
Reading elsewhere, I came across this post by a person who was responding to an attack from an OS. Obviously, I'm one of the HS that is trying to determine if McCain will have my vote come November since Obama wont. I hope this person doesn't mind that I'm posting this here since I don't have any way of contacting him/her but this poster was pointing out why McCain would be a better choice over Obama and I liked what they had to say:

Thank you for posting it. The more and more I think about it, if I do not care for the Independent candidate, I think McCain will get my vote. Not because I like him more then Obama, but I trust McCain to do a better job of running the country then Obama. McCain won't be perfect (far from it) but in my opinion Obama will be a whole lot worse.
 
/
Reading elsewhere, I came across this post by a person who was responding to an attack from an OS. Obviously, I'm one of the HS that is trying to determine if McCain will have my vote come November since Obama wont. I hope this person doesn't mind that I'm posting this here since I don't have any way of contacting him/her but this poster was pointing out why McCain would be a better choice over Obama and I liked what they had to say:

I particularly like this:

Anyone with a corporate background will see through the Democratic party promoting a younger, less qualified male over a woman who could do the job better.

It just really resonates with my experience.
 
I particularly like this:

Anyone with a corporate background will see through the Democratic party promoting a younger, less qualified male over a woman who could do the job better.

It just really resonates with my experience.

I've been in corporate Americas for 30 years. (even though i am only 19:rolleyes1 ) and this statement is sooooooooooooooooooooooooo TRUE!!!!!

I said before and will say again....Obama is the antithesis of every thing that is wrong with corporate America. All ego, as if he is the FIRST ever to come up with solutions, and not a spit of experience to back up anything. He is the new kid who bamboozeles his way into any office and said he will change everything. Then messes up everything beyond belief, then 6 months later Everyone gets laid off.:headache:
 
I am also shaking my head at this.this is his video off the Obama site....http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/samgrahamfelsen/gG5SPm

something else he said he would not due he is doing....and he is putting a gigantic spin on why hs has made this decision. He told McCain flat out to his face that he would not do this during the general...but he is....and IMO he is doing it. He does not seem to stick to his word.....if it workd in his best interest to achieve what he wants it does not matter to him. He blammed it on the Republicans and put the spin on them...

He broke his word and if that is not old politics I dont know what is....



Quote:
Obama to Break Promise, Opt Out of Public Financing for General Election

June 19, 2008 8:58 AM

In a web video to supporters -- "the people who built this movement from the bottom up" -- Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois, announced this morning that he will not enter into the public financing system, despite a previous pledge to do so.

"We've made the decision not to participate in the public financing system for the general election," Obama says in the video, blaming it on the need to combat Republicans, saying "we face opponents who’ve become masters at gaming this broken system. John McCain’s campaign and the Republican National Committee are fueled by contributions from Washington lobbyists and special interest PACs. And we’ve already seen that he’s not going to stop the smears and attacks from his allies running so-called 527 groups, who will spend millions and millions of dollars in unlimited donations."
In November 2007, Obama answered "Yes" to Common Cause when asked "If you are nominated for President in 2008 and your major opponents agree to forgo private funding in the general election campaign, will you participate in the presidential public financing system?"

Obama wrote: "In February 2007, I proposed a novel way to preserve the strength of the public financing system in the 2008 election. My plan requires both major party candidates to agree on a fundraising truce, return excess money from donors, and stay within the public financing system for the general election. My proposal followed announcements by some presidential candidates that they would forgo public financing so they could raise unlimited funds in the general election. The Federal Election Commission ruled the proposal legal, and Senator John McCain (R-AZ) has already pledged to accept this fundraising pledge. If I am the Democratic nominee, I will aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."

Not so "aggressively," according to the McCain campaign, which argues that Obama did not discuss this or try to negotiate at all with the McCain campaign, despite writing that he would "aggressively pursue an agreement with the Republican nominee to preserve a publicly financed general election."
The Obama campaign disputes this. Obama campaign counsel Bob Bauer met with McCain campaign counsel Trevor Potter and, according to Obama spox Bill Burton, Potter "immediately made it clear there was no basis for further discussion," that they weren't interested in any sort of agreement. "McCain and the RNC had spent months raising and spending money for the general election, and their basic attitude was 'You'll catch up,'" Burton says, suggesting that the Republicans were also turning a blind eye to the activities of 527s.
In April Obama seemed to be preparing an argument to opt out, as we noted at the time.

"We have created a parallel public financing system where the American people decide if they want to support a campaign they can get on the Internet and finance it, and they will have as much access and influence over the course and direction of our campaign that has traditionally been reserved for the wealthy and the powerful," Obama said at the time.
Today he said something similar, telling supporters, "Instead of forcing us to rely on millions from Washington lobbyists and special interest PACs, you’ve fueled this campaign with donations of $5, $10, $20, whatever you can afford. And because you did, we’ve built a grassroots movement of over 1.5 million Americans. ...You’ve already changed the way campaigns are funded because you know that’s the only way we can truly change how Washington works."
Obama said, "I’m asking you to try to do something that’s never been done before. Declare our independence from a broken system, and run the type of campaign that reflects the grassroots values that have already changed our politics and brought us this far."
Declaring independence from a "broken system" by breaking a promise. Obama hopes you'll care more about the former than the latter.

- jpt

UPDATE: McCain campaign communications director Jill Hazelbaker emails: “Today, Barack Obama has revealed himself to be just another typical politician who will do and say whatever is most expedient for Barack Obama. The true test of a candidate for President is whether he will stand on principle and keep his word to the American people. Barack Obama has failed that test today, and his reversal of his promise to participate in the public finance system undermines his call for a new type of politics. Barack Obama is now the first presidential candidate since Watergate to run a campaign entirely on private funds. This decision will have far-reaching and extraordinary consequences that will weaken and undermine the public financing system.”
 
On another forum I visit they are all justifying Obama's camp treatment of the two Musling woman, saying things such as "the end jusitfies the means" and so.

So it's OK for *him* to do anything to get elected? Such double standard and hypocrisy!
 
On another forum I visit they are all justifying Obama's camp treatment of the two Musling woman, saying things such as "the end jusitfies the means" and so.

So it's OK for *him* to do anything to get elected? Such double standard and hypocrisy!


That is what the OS are sure to say about him breaking his word about Public financing...dont forget he can do no wrong in the eyes of the OS :goodvibes
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";25769590]That is what the OS are sure to say about him breaking his word about Public financing...dont forget he can do no wrong in the eyes of the OS :goodvibes[/QUOTE]

They are starting to sound like the 28 who support Bush, no matter what.

Scary.
 
"We've made the decision not to participate in the public financing system for the general election," Obama says in the video, blaming it on the need to combat Republicans, saying "we face opponents who’ve become masters at gaming this broken system. John McCain’s campaign and the Republican National Committee are fueled by contributions from Washington lobbyists and special interest PACs. And we’ve already seen that he’s not going to stop the smears and attacks from his allies running so-called 527 groups, who will spend millions and millions of dollars in unlimited donations."
I thought that he planned to be different no matter what the other side did? All of this flipping and flopping is starting to confuse me.
 
I thought that he planned to be different no matter what the other side did? All of this flipping and flopping is starting to confuse me.

Seems he has me making 1 step forward 5 steps back.....:confused3 he miust not care about my vote
 
On another forum I visit they are all justifying Obama's camp treatment of the two Musling woman, saying things such as "the end jusitfies the means" and so.

So it's OK for *him* to do anything to get elected? Such double standard and hypocrisy!

I can actually understand Politians with double standards & hypocrisy. :headache:
But I cant understand those who support his SO OBVIOUS HYPOCRISY. That goes for his supporters & the media.
 
[QUOTE="Got Disney";25769096]
.....if it workd in his best interest to achieve what he wants it does not matter to him. He blammed it on the Republicans and put the spin on them...[/QUOTE]

Got Disney - that's what he's been like since Day 1: if it's in his best interest he'll do it regardless of what he's said previously and he'll do whatever it takes to achieve it. Geeze, I recall all the times I've had to shake my head at the OS because they'd post something crass like 'Hillary will do whatever it takes to get elected.' in a derogatory slam against her and then I'd watch the election play out with Obama being the underhanded one to to whatever it took - not Hillary.

It's all about him

Also, besides the race card he has no problem pulling --- he pulls the victim card all the freakin’ time. It will never be his fault. That is the primary reason that I do not want Hillary as his VP. He's too arrogant to actually listen to Hillary's expert advice and when he falls - as he will do should be elected, he'll push as much of the blame on her as he can get away with and take her down with him.

This man has no ethics and I trust him about as much as I trust a rattlesnake.


UPDATE: McCain campaign communications director Jill Hazelbaker emails: “Today, Barack Obama has revealed himself to be just another typical politician who will do and say whatever is most expedient for Barack Obama. The true test of a candidate for President is whether he will stand on principle and keep his word to the American people. Barack Obama has failed that test today, and his reversal of his promise to participate in the public finance system undermines his call for a new type of politics. Barack Obama is now the first presidential candidate since Watergate to run a campaign entirely on private funds. This decision will have far-reaching and extraordinary consequences that will weaken and undermine the public financing system.”


Good for the McCain campaign. I agree with that released statment. I really hope that the McCain campaign calls Obama on all the :mad: (not allowed to post my word of choice here) he'll pull -and try to pull- in this general. That was the problem with the Hillary campaign; they really didn't call him on everything.

Now, in their defense, they had to be more on the defense during this primary rather than the offense due to Obama's underhanded campaign ethics that the main stream media was conveniently turning a blind eye on. But I honestly think that Hillary was trying to run a decent campaign and not go too negative on him since that was what she was being accused of doing. Since she was accused of that and regarded as a monster by any OS regardless of how clean she tired to keep it, I wish that she truly had gone negative on him. Maybe then enough people would have seen Obama for what he really is and we’d have Hillary (the better candidate) going into this GE.
 
I can actually understand Politians with double standards & hypocrisy. :headache:
But I cant understand those who support his SO OBVIOUS HYPOCRISY. That goes for his supporters & the media.

Yeah, that's what I meant -sorry I wasn't clear- His supporters and the media going along no matter what. It'll be interesting watching how it goes in the coming months with more things coming to the surface and more contradicions on his part. How will the keep sustaining that he is "different" from the rest.
 
Got Disney - that's what he's been like since Day 1: if it's in his best interest he'll do it regardless of what he's said previously and he'll do whatever it takes to achieve it. Geeze, I recall all the times I've had to shake my head at the OS because they'd post something crass like 'Hillary will do whatever it takes to get elected.' in a derogatory slam against her and then I'd watch the election play out with Obama being the underhanded one to to whatever it took - not Hillary.

It's all about him

.

Well, I wonder what the OS think of this latest Yahoo headline (from the AP)

Analysis: Obama chose winning over his word
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080619/ap_on_el_pr/obama_money_analysis

I was actually surprised at the bluntness of the title, considering the treatment he's gotten.....so far
 
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