Hillary Supporters unite part 2; no bashing please

[DisneyMomx7]

I try never to post on the Hillary thread. I understand this is a time of hurt for Hillary supporters and I respect that.

I do beg the Hillary supporters who are thinking of voting for McCain to think of how you will feel if the Supreme Court, who the next President will most likely be appointing at least one new justice, overturns Roe v. Wade. I certainly do not believe it is a "scare tactic" since McCain has made it clear that he intends to appoint a Justice similar to Roberts and Scalia. Is that the America you really want to live in?

Is it worth getting back at Obama by voting McCain to live in a country where abortion will be outlawed? Please, please think this through. I believe that most of the "I'll vote for McCain" is just hurt feeling right now. I honestly don't believe the Democrats want a President who is gung ho on a war with Iran and overturning Roe v. Wade.

I had much more respect for McCain before he started changing to appease the far right.

 

[MermaidsMom]

Jeffrey Toobin, Chief Legal Analyst on CNN predicts that if McCain wins, Roe vs. Wade will be overturned within one year. That's something for women and their daughters to be worried about.


Obama/Sebelius '08

Let's pull out the golden oldies from campaigns past:
If Bush wins:
*There will be a draft (Reagan smear too)
*Roe v Wade will be overturned (Reagan & Bush 41 smear too)
*Back alley abortions will return (All Republican smeared with this one)
*African American vote will only count as 2/3 (5/8 or whatever the % was)
*Women will lose their rights
*Bush will take away Social Security (Reagan & Bush 41 smear)
*Bush will take away Medicare (Reagan & Bush 41 smear)

*It's been 4 years since the last election, give me a minute and they'll all come back to me! There are dozens more and they would be funny if they weren't designed to terrify uninformed people. Especially the elderly.

My point is, get ready for the "silly season" Obama talked about. Apparently it's beginning.

 

[jacksonsmom]

Is it worth getting back at Obama by voting McCain to live in a country where abortion will be outlawed? Please, please think this through. I believe that most of the "I'll vote for McCain" is just hurt feeling right now. I honestly don't believe the Democrats want a President who is gung ho on a war with Iran and overturning Roe v. Wade.

I had much more respect for McCain before he started changing to appease the far right.

If I don't vote for Obama won't to "get back at him" it will be because I believe he will not make a good president.

As far as the abortion issues, that is where I am not heavy Dem. I believe abortions should be used in rare cases (health, incest or rape) any other reasons I do believe abortions should be outlawed (just my opinion on that matter)
I also do not believe Roe vs Wade will be so easily overturned as some people are making it sound -- again all my opinion.

Don't know if I will vote for Obama or vote for someone else (which I've been told is a vote for McCain) Right now I dislike both Obama and McCain the same so to me either one of them would not make a good president. Both scare/worry me as a President. Both of course for different reasons, but all the reasons are valid TO ME as why I do not want either as President.

I won't listen to any guilt trips from other Dems. With this election I will vote with my conscience and who I feel is truly the better President. Right now that person is Hillary Clinton and as of now she will be the one I will write down when I vote in the general election. At least when I vote for Hillary Clinton I know I voted for the BEST person to run the Country, IMO

EVERYONE has the right to vote how they see fit and NO ONE should try to change a person's opinion on the matter --- and right now that is how I see fit

 

[robinb]

Let's pull out the golden oldies from campaigns past:

I have one for you: Bush will appoint ultra-conservatives to the Supreme Court. Oh wait! That really happened and now we have Roberts and Alito {{shudder}}.

 

[DisneyMomx7]

I have one for you: Bush will appoint ultra-conservatives to the Supreme Court. Oh wait! That really happened and now we have Roberts and Alito {{shudder}}.

That's exactly what I'm talking about!

 

[frndshpcptn]

If I don't vote for Obama won't to "get back at him" it will be because I believe he will not make a good president.

As far as the abortion issues, that is where I am not heavy Dem. I believe abortions should be used in rare cases (health, incest or rape) any other reasons I do believe abortions should be outlawed (just my opinion on that matter)
I also do not believe Roe vs Wade will be so easily overturned as some people are making it sound -- again all my opinion.

Don't know if I will vote for Obama or vote for someone else (which I've been told is a vote for McCain) Right now I dislike both Obama and McCain the same so to me either one of them would not make a good president. Both scare/worry me as a President. Both of course for different reasons, but all the reasons are valid TO ME as why I do not want either as President.

I won't listen to any guilt trips from other Dems. With this election I will vote with my conscience and who I feel is truly the better President. Right now that person is Hillary Clinton and as of now she will be the one I will write down when I vote in the general election. At least when I vote for Hillary Clinton I know I voted for the BEST person to run the Country, IMO

EVERYONE has the right to vote how they see fit and NO ONE should try to change a person's opinion on the matter --- and right now that is how I see fit

i completely agree with what you wrote here.

 

[punkin]

If I don't vote for Obama won't to "get back at him" it will be because I believe he will not make a good president.

As far as the abortion issues, that is where I am not heavy Dem. I believe abortions should be used in rare cases (health, incest or rape) any other reasons I do believe abortions should be outlawed (just my opinion on that matter)
I also do not believe Roe vs Wade will be so easily overturned as some people are making it sound -- again all my opinion.

Don't know if I will vote for Obama or vote for someone else (which I've been told is a vote for McCain) Right now I dislike both Obama and McCain the same so to me either one of them would not make a good president. Both scare/worry me as a President. Both of course for different reasons, but all the reasons are valid TO ME as why I do not want either as President.

I won't listen to any guilt trips from other Dems. With this election I will vote with my conscience and who I feel is truly the better President. Right now that person is Hillary Clinton and as of now she will be the one I will write down when I vote in the general election. At least when I vote for Hillary Clinton I know I voted for the BEST person to run the Country, IMO

EVERYONE has the right to vote how they see fit and NO ONE should try to change a person's opinion on the matter --- and right now that is how I see fit

I am very pro choice, but that is not the only issue that's important to me. I feel Obama will make a very bad president, particularly now.

 

[MerryPoppins]

While I think we (HS and OS alike) should think before we speak (or type as the case may be), this is the Hillary thread. I do think the Obama folk who visit here should remember that. No, I'm not saying you aren't welcome. Just realize that we are who we are. Especially now, you might see some of us saying things that you won't like to read. Come here with an understanding of that and try to rein in your arguments to change our minds about your candidate. Now probably isn't the best time to voice the reasons we should see it your way. There will be plenty of time before the election to try to come together. We aren't quite ready for that yet.

But like I said, I do think the HS should try to keep our cool. It's not really helping anything to say ugly things. I'm trying to rise above the level of those that have hurt me. Most of us will want to remain in the Democratic party in the end...nothing against those of you who don't. I completely understand why you feel the way you do. We'll have to all try to be "friends" again in the end. It's easier if you haven't been in each other's faces. So take a deep breath before you type and maybe wait a few minutes before you hit submit reply. And btw, "I'm sorry" can be pretty healing if you lose control. I've had to do it when I went off about something.

I'm beginning to think we'd all do a little better if we'd share a few drinks and loosen up a smidge...and I say that after a long talk with my Obama-voting 21-year-old son this afternoon.

Oh, and you'll probably still find me saying "some OS" are thus and so. Sorry. I can't help it. I'm not necessarily pointing the finger at you. If I forget to say "some", call me on it and I'll fix it. But sometimes I need to blow off a little steam.

 

[DISUNC]

I'm not going to pretend to know the exact moment everything started, but I will say that you've given every bit as good as you've gotten.

ETA: I was wrong. you haven't been in the Obama thread. However you have been in many contentious threads about Obama.

On both sides of this thing, there are a couple of specific posters that have been particularly strident and contentious, and you have been one of them on the Hillary side. I've bitten my tongue because you are funny and have been a source of valuable info most of the time. But frankly this is getting old. It's a vicious circle and it needs to stop.

The difference is I did not go to their thread and start in. They came here.
Yup I can dish it, but I also think I can take it.

But I will not bite my tounge when someone attacks me, or changes my words around. Not now. not ever, never. Again I will stand stand by my remarks, as I had had written them, not as someone else distorted them.

Thanks for the 'funny' remark...I try to be.

I will try to tone it down, to the best of my abilities. I am Irish Catholic from Brooklyn NY....therefore sarcasim is in me blood.

I agree with you on that but here's the thing........ it's our opinion not a fact, The man doesn't have enough of a record to say with a certainty either way. So both points of view are equally valid. .

Yes you are correct it is indeed my opinion, but my opinion based on much reading and observation. This is not my opinion based on a 'off the cuff' thought.

Look I get how hard it can be. There was a discussion yesterday just about made my head explode for the total lack of logic and side stepping. But what do you think you are accomplishing by getting into these arguments? .

I dont know the disucssion you are referring too, yesterday. As far as the arguments....IT POLITICS. I have never seen Politics dicussed non argumentativly before.

You're certainly not changing anyone's mind. Sometimes it's just better to get along then to be right. Use the ignore feature on those posters that really get to you. I did it yesterday for the first time ever on any message board and I can't tell you how much more pleasant it makes the boards. .

I have been told I have changed some peoples minds. Honestly I get along with most everyobody I ever met. I have debated many issues on these threads with everybody, but I never had any problem with any of them (from any side of any fence) unless they were Obama supporters.

I agree that Obama is reaching some supporters on an emotional level, but to say that that's the only reason any of them support him is just as insulting as saying the only reason we support Hillary is because she's a woman or because she's white. Like it or not, agree or not they have their own reasons for supporting him - just as we have ours for supporting Hillary.

And this remains the complete mystery to me! So I must speculate.

 

[LuvDuke]

I will try to tone it down, to the best of my abilities. I am Irish Catholic from Brooklyn NY....therefore sarcasim is in me blood.

Now it all makes sense. Italian Catholic from Brooklyn, NY here ............ Bushwick to be exact.

 

[DISUNC]

Now it all makes sense. Italian Catholic from Brooklyn, NY here ............ Bushwick to be exact.

Lets step outside!

Flatbush!!!

 

[chobie]

If I don't vote for Obama won't to "get back at him" it will be because I believe he will not make a good president.

As far as the abortion issues, that is where I am not heavy Dem. I believe abortions should be used in rare cases (health, incest or rape) any other reasons I do believe abortions should be outlawed (just my opinion on that matter)
I also do not believe Roe vs Wade will be so easily overturned as some people are making it sound -- again all my opinion.

Don't know if I will vote for Obama or vote for someone else (which I've been told is a vote for McCain) Right now I dislike both Obama and McCain the same so to me either one of them would not make a good president. Both scare/worry me as a President. Both of course for different reasons, but all the reasons are valid TO ME as why I do not want either as President.

I won't listen to any guilt trips from other Dems. With this election I will vote with my conscience and who I feel is truly the better President. Right now that person is Hillary Clinton and as of now she will be the one I will write down when I vote in the general election. At least when I vote for Hillary Clinton I know I voted for the BEST person to run the Country, IMO

EVERYONE has the right to vote how they see fit and NO ONE should try to change a person's opinion on the matter --- and right now that is how I see fit

That's what campaigning is all about -trying to change a person's opinion on who to vote for. What do you think Hillary has been doing the last several months but trying to change people's opinion about who to vote for?

 

[punkin]

for all the Obama Supporters on this thread, a bit of advice:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/obamicans_pile_on_clinton_at_o.html

 

[DISUNC]

for all the Obama Supporters on this thread, a bit of advice:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/obamicans_pile_on_clinton_at_o.html

Obama's Inability to Hire Good Help Rears Its Head … Again

"We started covering Sen. Barack Obama's inability to hire good staffers in June 2007, when he blamed staffers for some opposition research trying to link Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, to outsourcing in India; for injecting some venom in the David Geffen/Hillary Clinton fight; and for missing an event with firefighters in New Hampshire.

In December, we noted again that Obama was blaming the answers on a 1996 questionnaire on a staffer; and was blaming his touring with "cured" ex-gay gospel singer Donnie McClurkin (which antagonized gays and lesbians) on bad vetting by his staff.

Yesterday, in an interesting New York Times look at Obama's rise in Chicago politics, we learned that in 2004 some Jewish supporters became alarmed to learn that in a questionnaire Obama refrained from denouncing Yasir Arafat, or from expressing strong support for Israel's security fence.

Reports the Times: "In an e-mail message, Mr. Obama blamed a staff member for the oversight, and expressed the hope that 'none of this has raised any questions on your part regarding my fundamental commitment to Israel’s security.'"

In January, during MSNBC's presidential debate in Las Vegas, Obama was asked about a document put together by one of his South Carolina staffers that listed comments made by the Clinton campaign that some perceived to be attempting to stoke racial fires. "In hindsight, do you regret pushing this story?” asked Tim Russert.

"Our supporters, our staff get overzealous," Obama said. "They start saying things that I would not say, and it is my responsibility to make sure that we're setting a clear tone in our campaign.”

In February in a meeting with the Chicago Tribune, Obama was asked about an earmark that went to the University of Chicago while his wife Michelle Obama worked there.
....that this is something that slipped through our cracks, through our screening system.” "


....................And the list goes on & on.

So, for those keeping track at home, that's ten instances of Obama publicly blaming his staff for various screw-ups.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10!

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/obamas-inabilit.html

 

[Planogirl]

Wow, you guys have been busy today.

Kikifan and MerryPoppins, you're voices of reason! I agree wholeheartedly that both sides should try to be reasonable. Some get a little too strident I guess. I think that it does little good to chide and correct people who have strong feelings but I suppose that we all want to have our say.

 

[MAKmom]

If Obama gets the nomination his choice of VP will seal his fate. If he gives it to Richardson I think the HS will just stay home & not vote. IMO they will not vote for McCain they will just not vote in many cases.

 

[mom2twinz3]

We are worried about the general election of course. If all the Hillary supporters sit this one out or vote for MCain we will have 4 more years of Bush, nothing changing with health care and more neocons appointed to the federal bench. We can't win this election without the Dems.

If Hillary gets the nomination and all the OS say they will not vote for her, then the Hillary supporters will be very worried as well.

The cons have much to rejoice about these days.

You know, I posted here earlier because I am an Independent who became an Edwards supporter and then a Hillary supporter.

I have to say that you aren't doing anything to attract us Indies to Obama by cutting down McCain. He is NOT Bush--he actually served in 'Nam and more than that was a POW for years. Anyone who has been through that deserves some respect even if you oppose his politics. He may be doing a dance right now, but he is NOT a neocon.

That said, there are other things that will likely rule out my voting for him..like Iraq. I can't support anyone who is pro-Iraq like he is. But at least have some respect for the guy and be truthful about him. You're going to chase people away if you go after him on anything other than the issues.

Mary

 

[jacksonsmom]

That's what campaigning is all about -trying to change a person's opinion on who to vote for. What do you think Hillary has been doing the last several months but trying to change people's opinion about who to vote for?

Yes, this is true but if a person already feels passionate about a candidate then that is their choice. Right now Hillary is still in the race so us, Hillary supports, don't want to think about supporting Obama. Maybe some of us will in the future, maybe some of us won't
We need to come to that position within ourselves in our own time. No amount of pushing or telling us we should support Obama will make it happen any faster.

I am not trying to be mean or anything. I am trying to state how I feel right now. I can not support Obama, that might change in the future, then again it might not.

I also will say that it will matter A LOT to who Obama picks for his VP. I can not say I will support him until I know who he would pick for a VP. If it is Richardson, then Nope, he won't get my support.
So I also think that is what a lot of Hillary supporters are waiting for.

 

[MermaidsMom]

Obama's Inability to Hire Good Help Rears Its Head … Again

"We started covering Sen. Barack Obama's inability to hire good staffers in June 2007, when he blamed staffers for some opposition research trying to link Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-NY, to outsourcing in India; for injecting some venom in the David Geffen/Hillary Clinton fight; and for missing an event with firefighters in New Hampshire.

In December, we noted again that Obama was blaming the answers on a 1996 questionnaire on a staffer; and was blaming his touring with "cured" ex-gay gospel singer Donnie McClurkin (which antagonized gays and lesbians) on bad vetting by his staff.

Yesterday, in an interesting New York Times look at Obama's rise in Chicago politics, we learned that in 2004 some Jewish supporters became alarmed to learn that in a questionnaire Obama refrained from denouncing Yasir Arafat, or from expressing strong support for Israel's security fence.

Reports the Times: "In an e-mail message, Mr. Obama blamed a staff member for the oversight, and expressed the hope that 'none of this has raised any questions on your part regarding my fundamental commitment to Israel’s security.'"

In January, during MSNBC's presidential debate in Las Vegas, Obama was asked about a document put together by one of his South Carolina staffers that listed comments made by the Clinton campaign that some perceived to be attempting to stoke racial fires. "In hindsight, do you regret pushing this story?” asked Tim Russert.

"Our supporters, our staff get overzealous," Obama said. "They start saying things that I would not say, and it is my responsibility to make sure that we're setting a clear tone in our campaign.”

In February in a meeting with the Chicago Tribune, Obama was asked about an earmark that went to the University of Chicago while his wife Michelle Obama worked there.
....that this is something that slipped through our cracks, through our screening system.” "


....................And the list goes on & on.

So, for those keeping track at home, that's ten instances of Obama publicly blaming his staff for various screw-ups.

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10!

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/obamas-inabilit.html

SARCASM ALERT!
You've made my earlier point! He's exactly right by saying the staffers are at fault. I believe he hasn't done ANY of this himself so of course he needs to blame others! They are the ones who've gotten him to this point and at least it proves he's honest by not taking credit for others work.

 

[chobie]

Yes, this is true but if a person already feels passionate about a candidate then that is their choice. Right now Hillary is still in the race so us, Hillary supports, don't want to think about supporting Obama. Maybe some of us will in the future, maybe some of us won't
We need to come to that position within ourselves in our own time. No amount of pushing or telling us we should support Obama will make it happen any faster.

I am not trying to be mean or anything. I am trying to state how I feel right now. I can not support Obama, that might change in the future, then again it might not.

I also will say that it will matter A LOT to who Obama picks for his VP. I can not say I will support him until I know who he would pick for a VP. If it is Richardson, then Nope, he won't get my support.
So I also think that is what a lot of Hillary supporters are waiting for.

I get it. You're saying you tired of people like, well, me lecturing you about who you should be voting for. I can understand that. My apologies.