"High School courses/thinking @ college" question (long, sorry) small update post 17

[agnes!]

This is a WWYD. Any college students around, any parents of HS seniors applying to schools, any one working (work? what's that!) in the arts, join in. Thanks.

Someone I know is a junior in HS. So far, has a great GPA, taking 2 AP courses this year, says that Honors Physics is their easy class, is in a Language 4 class, has outside interests/friends/etc.. WELL, course selection for next year has reared its ugly head and this is how things are stacking up.

First off, pertinent state requirements for graduating are:
4 years of English
4 years of Math
4 years of Science
Electives
3 years of a Language or 2 + 2 years of 2 different languages

This year this student is in 2 AP classes - an AP History & an AP English - doing well in each. Took a HS Math class and a Language 1 class back in 8th Grade so this is the "WWYD" dilemma...

*doesn't have to take any language next year, but the Lang teacher is great & the student had been planning to take the Lang's AP class senior year.

*doesn't have to take any Math classes Senior year but has a real gift for Math and had the teacher who teaches AP Calc A/B earlier in HS and would like to have him as a teacher again.

*Had thought of taking 5 AP classes next year, but then wouldn't have a life.

*Has just been invited to take AP Physics Senior year (that is NOT going to happen)...again, wouldn't have a life

*Has already locked-in a 2nd-year 2-Credit Elective, is taking the "1" class this year & loves the class, it's creative and the students actually get experience with professional-grade equipment and software

*Wants to get into a particular field in music and has become very focussed on that, so really needs to build a portfolio or body of work for possible admissions next year. No classes in this particular field are offered at the HS.

*A year-long seminar-style class is being offered next year on the greatest playwright in the English language *BUT* this class will not count as one of the English Requirements, it will only count as an Elective.
SO!
the student could actually take Remedial 12th Grade English and it would count as their Requirement (but they'd be bored the entire year) but remember! (as I said above), the "playwright" seminar won't.
BUT!
the seminar-class would tie in more to the student's chosen field.

It's different from years ago, this school system has Standard and Advanced Diplomas and all sorts of special seals that they can put on your diploma if you qualify - Early College Scholar, AP Scholar, etc. etc.

So, WWYD?...
Drop one or both of the AP classes that would be with teachers the student really likes but the student doesn't need those classes to graduate?
Damn the torpedos, full speed ahead and take all 5 AP Classes?
Will the student be penalized in the admissions 'race' because they could have taken AP Calculus senior year but didn't? Do music schools even care? Should the student take the AP Calculus class now just in case they change their mind about their major?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you might have on the situation. I am still gob-smacked (even though the shock has worn off), that the seminar will not count as an English class.

agnes!

 

[cabanafrau]

I'd recommend full speed ahead & all 5 AP classes because I think every advantage just might count in college applications these days.

I also think I'd strongly urge this student to appeal the status of the seminar to the school board. It can't hurt. It would be a great life experience & could end up doing a lot of good for many of his or her peers -- maybe even get a lot of them involved in the effort to change the rules.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

My dd took all AP classes she could (currently a college freshman), she hated the reg. classes. Not sure what you mean about "not having a life". She enjoyed the teachers and the students. She found she had less work than her peers that were not in AP. The reg. classes had more "busywork". Plus as a college freshman she will tell you the AP classes prepared her for college classes.

I would say that the student should take want they want to, esp. the math. The student will do better on the SAT/ACT with more math. That is just a fact. My dd was not in any AP math classes as that is her weak area. It is really hurting her as a college freshman and putting her behind as far as being able to take classes that are upper level. A huge hinderance.

Now with language my dd took four yrs. She is pretty good at it and loves language. Since she took the 4 yrs. she was able to gain credit. She could have opted out and gotten credit. However she tested into Span 3 as a freshman and got credits for the lower classes which count toward the degree. Right now she is in Span 4 and will be done with her lang. requirement. She wanted to become more fluent which is why she choose that path.

If they are looking to bulk up their portifolio they need to be looking at things outside the school.

I could go on, really, however bottom line is take the math and the other stuff you love. It is really hard to guess what admissions are looking for, trust me.

 

[puffkin]

First, if the student is going for an arts/music degree, then first and foremost the portfolio should be the top priority. Absolutely without a doubt.

Second, at this point I would only take AP classes if you are planning on taking the test to try and get college credit. AP Physics is not going to be as desirable to a music school as it would in an engineering school.

Finally, it sounds like this is an excellent student with their head on straight. I would say that they should take the courses that they want to take and are passionate about.

 

[jsmith]

Take every AP class they can and take the tests-as long as it allows time to build the portfolio-Reason-money. those AP credits cost about a 4th of the actual college credit, can be applied to electives at most schools and if you have enough of them can save you a years tution somewhere-thats alot of money-up to 10k at some schools. (i have kids in college now-both entered as sophomores thanks to AP and dual enrollment credits-thats more than 10K that im not spending in tution per child.)

 

[Christine]

agnes,

What school is this student applying to?

 

[claudia]

The most important thing this child can do is decide which colleges he/she wants to attend and then find out the requirements for admission.
Then build a strong portfolio based on what they want to study.
My nephew attends The Boston Conservatory (he is a pianist) and while he did fairly well in HS grade wise (B student), the school was not concerned with that as much as his talent. Also my friends 2 children attend art schools in NYC at FIT and SVA. When they were applying they said the portfolio was the most important and that was utlimately the factor for admission. Again, both kids were B+ students. Although all of them took the SAT/ACT, SVA was the only school that had a guideline for grades....the other 2 schools were not interested.
So....once this child understands the requirements and makes sure that all the ducks are in a row portfolio wise I would just let the child decide how to plan out the final year based on that info. Take classes that are relevant to what he/she wants to study. If there are AP classes that will apply to college credit in their major, then take those....if the child has room in their schedule to take other AP classes that interest them, then go for it. Kids change their minds all the time.
And don't worry about not having a life, DS took 5 AP's senior year...calculus, physics, micro and macro economics and english language....he definitely had a life and also scored a 5 on all of his exams.

 

[MrsSpratt]

My advice is: take the 5 ap classes. It sounds like your son is well rounded, and he will probably be in classes with the same kids he has been in class with - good support group for getting all of the work done. Also, colleges don't like to see people taking the "easy route" in their final year of HS.

As he applies to conservatories, also encourage him to apply to STRONG universities with a good music program - he can have the complete college experience while pursuing his dream - if, for whatever reason, that dream doesn't work out, he has a degree from a good school.

I graduated the High School for the Performing and Visual Arts in Houston Texas and attended the Boston Conservatory, if that helps...

 

[Shmily1]

I have two teens in two different colleges right now. Both took AP classes. Both DS19 and DD18 will tell you that the only good that came from taking the AP classes was that they were more able to push through to get all the work done that is required at college better because of the push of AP classes. Neither of them had any issues with getting into the college they wanted and neither of them needed the AP classes to be accepted. These are universities and not local colleges.



That said, if the student is interested in something, they will make better grades, thus bringing/keeping up the GPA, which is what is really needed to get into college. If the student is going to a special field and can show they have had classes that pertain to the field, that is a plus. If the student can work in the seminar to get the credits he needs to graduate, I think it would be great to take it. If the two AP classes he wants to take can fit his schedule of classes he has to have to graduate, then I say go for it. Heck, I took AP Calculus my senior year for the same reason and because I loved math and had it count as my electives so they would let me take it!! About the 5 AP classes in his senior year--nope, not a chance... senior year is busy and fun and it should be. Do what he needs to so he can graduate but don't let him bury himself up to his neck when it's totally not necessary to get into the college. This is the best years of his life--live it!!!

 

[jsmith]

About the 5 AP classes in his senior year--nope, not a chance... senior year is busy and fun and it should be. Do

both my boys did 5 APs in senior year-and one was an AP scholar-meaning a score of 4 or 5 on the test both junior and senior year-and they were athletes, played in orchestra, worked and were Link leaders, took at least one class at the jr college in addition to the AP courses-and had girlfriends-so im going to disagree with that. But it depends on the student-how motivated they are-and how much down time they need-for some that would be way to much-i thought it was too much-but its what they were comfortable with.

 

[princess.chell]

Okay, I tried to take 4 AP courses plus a writing intensive honors course as a senior (this year). This did not work, at all! Started the year in AP Psych, AP Environmental Studies, AP Calculus AB, and AP Studio Art (going to art school next year). Plus an elective course that I had to do 40 hours of community service and a part time job and an internship. Yes I am crazy. Yes I did not survive. Two weeks into first semester I was miserable. I should have dropped my science course right away. But I didn't. Nearly failed out. My GPA was saved by my A in AP Studio Art. I've now dropped out of my science class, and my life is so much better.
The moral of the story...if you've got outside of school stuff going on that is of importance to you, don't try to take 5 AP courses. Plus he needs to build a portfolio. That takes a lot of time, especially since he has no class for it. Take it worth a grain of salt though; every student is different and that was just my experience with the first half of my senior year.

What I would do: take the AP Calc. In my experience in looking for art schools, I have to take liberal arts courses. I would guess that music schools do the same? But I don't really know for sure. Most schools take AP Calc. I would drop the language class too. I'm a little confused on the other classes, but if you have any other questions PM me

 

[Plannin'Shannon]

I'd recommend full speed ahead & all 5 AP classes because I think every advantage just might count in college applications these days.

I also think I'd strongly urge this student to appeal the status of the seminar to the school board. It can't hurt. It would be a great life experience & could end up doing a lot of good for many of his or her peers -- maybe even get a lot of them involved in the effort to change the rules.

I agree. I took every AP class my school offered, which included 7 my senior year of high school, and have never once doubted that I made the right decision. That said, every student is so vastly different that it's hard to make a recommendation without personally knowing someone. My priority was academics; I was not involved in a ton of extra-curricular activities, as some students are. I graduated an AP Scholar. More than anything, it required self-motivation. If he's a very self-motivated student, I'd say go for it! If nothing else, I do recommend he take AP Calculus.

 

[agnes!]

The seminar has no chance of being accepted as the English requirement for English 12. None. At. All. Appointments have been made and talks have been had with TPTB and word has come down from on high...no way, no how, not gonna happen.

Yeah, the requirements are confusing, what is accepted by the local school system (the requirements, btw, are mandated by the state Board of Education) and what is *not*.

I'm thinking that either the AP Language or the AP Calculus class will be the one to go. The student took a HS Math and a HS Language course in 8th Grade, so they don't *have* to take a Math or Language to graduate with an Advanced Diploma. It just makes me sad, they've worked so hard, they've done so well and suffered through some..."interesting" classes. Senior year was supposed to be the year this student would be able to reward themselves with (believe it or not) the AP Calculus and the AP Lang classes, but, I am sad to say, I think one of them will have to go. The student has GOT to have the time to finish building their portfolio next fall, which they are trying to gearing up on *now*.

The student *has* to take the following classes Senior year:
an English class - choice of AP English Lit or a general ed. English 12
a Science class - choice of 1 of 4 AP classes, or general ed. Geosystems or Human Anatomy/Physiology
a Social Studies class - choice of 2 AP classes or 2 general ed. US/(state) history
at least one Elective - The student has already made this choice and will NOT give up this one class, I agree with their decision.

Thought about trying out summer school (trying to take a class this summer so a period would be freed up during the regular school-year)...well, with the budget crunch, there might not even BE any brick&mortar summer school in the county this year and the on-line courses are pretty slim-pickins.

Many thanks to everyone who has taken the time to post. This situation has been painful to watch unfold and the stress...I guess it is just ratcheting up, preparing for next year...college apps, FAFSA....ugh.

agnes!

 

[golfgal]

Keep in mind that he will most likely have to take a math course of some kind in college. Often kids can test out of that class either by having enough high school math or actually taking a math test before signing up for classes in college and seeing if you test out. Not having a math class senior year is going to make that a lot harder.

In our high school we have 7 periods/day. The VAST majority of the college bound kids (94% of our school goes on to a 4 year college) take at least 5 AP classes junior and senior year. Most of these kids are in sports, arts, have jobs, etc. and they manage just fine. I think what helps is that they are all home doing homework after school/sports, etc. as are all of their friends so they aren't missing out on anything anyway.

Our twins will be sophomores next year and will have AP science, social and English along with honors math -DS might take AP math though--Spanish III, band and PE. Band being their only elective.

 

[mjkacmom]

My advice is: take the 5 ap classes. It sounds like your son is well rounded, and he will probably be in classes with the same kids he has been in class with - good support group for getting all of the work done. Also, colleges don't like to see people taking the "easy route" in their final year of HS.

As he applies to conservatories, also encourage him to apply to STRONG universities with a good music program - he can have the complete college experience while pursuing his dream - if, for whatever reason, that dream doesn't work out, he has a degree from a good school.

I graduated the High School for the Performing and Visual Arts in Houston Texas and attended the Boston Conservatory, if that helps...

I agree with this. My poor neighbor spent a lot of $ sending her dd to a good private HS. Turns out she wants to major in drama in college! Unfortunately, this private school didn't have a great arts program (unlike our local HS, which has awesome award winning music and drama programs). She got into the drama program at both Pace and NYU, and decided on Pace. My neighbor was not thrilled, although it is less expensive.

 

[agnes!]

In the course of doing my research recently, I have come across the following links that are very interesting. Thought I'd pass them along in case others are interested.

A documentary was made about the stress many students are experiencing as they climb the ladder towards high-school graduation and college apps. Just viewed the trailer, sad and intriguing all at the same time.
http://www.racetonowhere.com/

This is a Great College Advice column about GPAs, class rankings and college admissions:
http://greatcollegeadvice.com/weighted-gpa-unweighted-gpa-class-rank-and-college-admission/

This is another GCA column about choosing majors that will or might or might not matter in our coming century:
http://greatcollegeadvice.com/choos...the-21st-century-and-the-quest-for-relevance/
This writer, Mark Montgomery, has other posts on his website, they are all certainly food for thought.

agnes!

 

[agnes!]

Well, I now have an appointment with an administrator tomorrow morning, so if you don't mind maybe wish me luck, keep me in your thoughts, say a prayer.

I had called them about it over two weeks ago, didn't hear anything back, so called them a few days ago and was able to snag an appointment. I want to really understand why that playwright-seminar is designated an elective and why it really won't count as one of the requirements. Yeah, good luck with that eh?

Yeah, I know I'm probably tilting at windmills but I gotta try. If the system won't budge on this elective, then the student in question has decided to drop AP Calculus AB from their schedule for next year. 5APs with all the other things they need to get done senior year would be insane...4 will be ummmm...interesting, but with the choices now pending I think the year will probably be a very successful one.

The student feeling unable to take AP Calc stinks, but oh well....what can you do. There just won't be enough time next year in the day or in the school-year to get everything done.

I was reading over the thread today and re-read MM's post. MM makes some good points but I wanted to respond to some statements.

My dd took all AP classes she could (currently a college freshman), she hated the reg. classes. Not sure what you mean about "not having a life". She enjoyed the teachers and the students. She found she had less work than her peers that were not in AP. The reg. classes had more "busywork". Plus as a college freshman she will tell you the AP classes prepared her for college classes.

Here the amount of hours per AP class can be very daunting, though it does depend on the teacher & the subject-matter. This year the student probably has at least 3-4 hours per class taught so that's 6-8 hours every time the 2 AP classes roll around in the schedule - definitely not less work at their school. The student since middle school has always at least been in Honors classes and started with APs as soon as the system let them.

I would say that the student should take want they want to, esp. the math. The student will do better on the SAT/ACT with more math. That is just a fact. My dd was not in any AP math classes as that is her weak area. It is really hurting her as a college freshman and putting her behind as far as being able to take classes that are upper level. A huge hinderance.

If the student took what they wanted next year it would probably be the AP Calculus AB, the seminar, the AP (language) and the 2-credit professional/technical class. Not the AP Science class, not the AP English class.

I don't understand how some HS seniors seemingly get to almost take a year off, whatever happens tomorrow an easy/slough-off year in 2010/11 is not in this student's future.

If they are looking to bulk up their portifolio they need to be looking at things outside the school.

I could go on, really, however bottom line is take the math and the other stuff you love. It is really hard to guess what admissions are looking for, trust me.

Oh yeah, I'm sure the "portfolio" is being thought-of daily. At least one college visit is in the cards for spring break.

agnes!