High Point Owners

[chetcroc]

Hello. New to this forum, but not to Disney. Been going at least once a year for 14 years and bought into DVC in 2010. I bought a lot of points at multiple home resorts and I want to pose a question to other high-point owners, who have maybe owned their points longer than me. Has there been an attempt to offer a tiered system, like what Hotels and Airlines have (silver, gold, platinum) level system that would provide those who own several thousand points more perks (unlimited fast pass, best view accommodations, etc.). I asked the question to both sales people and the resort managers and they seem to agree it is needed. But I do not see Disney moving in this direction. I travel a lot for business and pleasure and when I walk into a Hilton hotel, they have me automatically upgraded and with Delta, the more points I accumulate, the more upgrades I receive. Any thoughts.

 

[graychef]

Since there is a finite number of points, I wonder if this has bearing on how Disney operates compared to other systems.

 

[Daddio]

Hello. New to this forum, but not to Disney. Been going at least once a year for 14 years and bought into DVC in 2010. I bought a lot of points at multiple home resorts and I want to pose a question to other high-point owners, who have maybe owned their points longer than me. Has there been an attempt to offer a tiered system, like what Hotels and Airlines have (silver, gold, platinum) level system that would provide those who own several thousand points more perks (unlimited fast pass, best view accommodations, etc.). I asked the question to both sales people and the resort managers and they seem to agree it is needed. But I do not see Disney moving in this direction. I travel a lot for business and pleasure and when I walk into a Hilton hotel, they have me automatically upgraded and with Delta, the more points I accumulate, the more upgrades I receive. Any thoughts.

I believe DVC has talked about it and there were rumours that it might be coming but I haven't heard any more about it since Jim Lewis left. I'm not sure it is a good fit for DVC although I would enjoy the perks as I do with hotels and airlines. But that type of program definitely creates "classes" and I'm not sure that would be good for sales to new buyers.

~ David

 

[chetcroc]

Thanks for the reply. The "class" creation is exactly why the sales people love this idea. It is a great selling tool. And I agree with the sales folks. If you have a client that is considering buying 360 points, but DVC has a perk available at the 500 point level, whereby you get priority seating at a restaurant or fireworks viewing or 3 free fast passes a day, I think many buyers would perhaps take the 500 points. Then when you reach 1000 points your perks increase, then at 2000 points perks get even better. I do not work for Disney, I am just accustomed to systems where the more you buy, stay or fly, the more you get. And Disney has certainly been behind on this system. Not only does this help Disney "up-sell", it gives high points owners (depending on points owned) the best rooms, the best experiences and the quickest way onto rides and attractions. As I explained to one DVC rep, the longer I wait in a line for an attraction, the less time I have to spend money at your stores, rent boats at your resorts and other things that I want and can pay for, but do not have the time (an now the energy) to do after waiting in multiple lines for 1.5 hours. The fast pass+ has helped, but it is too restricted. I believe if you have invested 1000 - 2000 points into the DVC program, your fast pass+ should get you on any ride at any time. Disney appears to want YOU to invest into their product, but treat you the same as someone who simple booked online and did not spend the hundreds of thousands of dollars with DVC. Just an observation.

 

[supersnoop]

There are two reasons I don't think this would ever happen. First, Disney has always seemed to treat everyone equal. Sure, they want to make more money off of you, but they provide the same level of service to everyone in most cases. Second, since DVC is a deeded real estate contract, treating people differently would cause huge problems. They'd effectively be treating people better because they bought a bigger house in the same neighborhood. I can only begin to imagine the PR and potential legal issues they would create.

They already do differentiate to a certain degree. But you have to remember that WDC, DVC, DVD, and the COA at each resort are all separate companies. DVD can treat resale and direct buyers differently, but I don't foresee any of the other companies making any distinction whatsoever.

 

[disneynutz]

I see it happening someday, Disney does not treat people as equals. They have different resort levels with different amenities at the different levels. Magic Bands are free to resort guests and soon AP holders while off-site guests will be paying $15.00 each for their Magic Bands. Club Level guests get extra perks and so do Disney credit card holders, the list goes on.

Bill

 

[supersnoop]

Again, I don't see DVC, nor WDC, doing anything like this. I can see DVD trying to create a VIP program, but it will be the same as it is now; restricted to direct buyers, not large ownership stakes.

The legal structure that encompasses DVC, and all U.S. timeshares, will not allow for special treatment based on ownership. Wyndham has a VIP program, but it is also based on resale/direct. El Cid has a VIP program, but they don't have any U.S. based properties, so their legal structure is completely different.

I think a lot of people would benefit from actually reading the documents that govern DVC. The structure shouldn't be too difficult to understand.

 

[disneysled]

We own 350 points and I can tell you from the "average" DVC owner - this type of sales tactic would not encourage me to purchase more points. I think there was a thread some time ago to find out the average amount of points DVC owners had and it unofficially came out to around 250 points. I asked our guide this and he said around 350-400 (which was probably some what inflated). If the majority of purchasers are starting out at less than 300 points telling them that at the 2000 point level you get priority views and restaurant seating as well as things like unlimited fast-passes its only going to annoy them - the majority of buyers will never be in this "market" and any good business person knows you don't want to alienate the majority of your consumer base. Even as you stated those considering purchasing 360 points would most likely move to the 500 point level if they were given better incentives - I'm not so sure about that. The tier perks would probably realistically be fairly minimal in first levels and only at the thousands of point level could Disney afford to give anything that would be considered "substantial". The price difference between 360 & 500 points is around $22,000 - that's a lot of money for a few extra fast-passes a day!

Also comparing it to an airline or a hotel tiering system is just not the same - you have a vast array of choices in those industries - they need to do something to keep you coming back to them with so many options available. Lets face it --- nothing really compares to Disney - you were willing to purchase 1000's of points without any incentives - why would you feel they would need to add them now?

Realistically Disney needs to meet the needs of the majority of their customer base and even though this might hurt a bit -- your not it.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Given the current DVC member benefits, I highly doubt something could be offered that would encourage us to spend thousands, if not tens of thousands, more on our membership.

We are already part of 4 Disney discount programs and the incentives across the programs are minimal.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Realistically Disney needs to meet the needs of the majority of their customer base and even though this might hurt a bit -- your not it.

For what it is worth, last year, my guide said that most members have between 160 and 200 points. If the overwhelming majority of members are under the 500 point mark, then I would suspect that there would be significant backlash from those unable to receive additional perks.

 

[lawboy2001]

Frankly, the equal treatment at dvc is one of the aspects that attracted me. I was interested in Marriott vacation club as well, but in their system, owners with a defined interest (I think three weeks of ownership interests or equivalent point totals) get preferential treatment in booking - they get to book 13 months out instead of 12 or 11 like everyone else. That didn't appeal to me.

 

[disneynutz]

Disney asked the VIP question a couple of years ago in a survey that they took. I also heard from a couple of sources that it was something that DVD/DVC was looking into.

As far as equal treatment for members, BLT TOTWL access was not available to all members until Disney wasn't making enough money in the lounge and the exclusivity wasn't needed to boost sales.

Resale buyers aren't treated equally either, in addition to the booking restrictions, processing the contracts and setting up the account is delayed for weeks compared to a direct sale that can be set up in 24 hours.

Bill

 

[Jennasis]

Disney doesn't seem to have any problem filling rooms or selling park tickets.

All Airlines provide the same service as their competitors...get you from Point A to point B...so there is competition amongst them for your business. They need incentive programs to fill seats and beat out the competition for those open seats.

IMO, Disney really isn't in competition with anyone (though some say Universal is gaining ground, and to a point I agree). Some day they might need "frequent flyer" programs, but not anytime soon.

As for the class system...well Disney does TREAT everyone the same. Sure amenities differ from place to place resort-wise but everyone is treated the same. People at Pop are treated just as magically, in my experience, as those at the Beach Club or Contemporary.

For now, we will use our DVC member card, AAA card and Disney Visa for their benefits.

 

[MELSMICE]

We own 525 points so if they started at a 500 point tier level that would include us, however, I'm not sure excluding other members would be a good move. I like the DVC perks that are offered to everyone. That being said, I would like to see additional DVC perks for all but as a business such as Disney I would hesitate to offer it to only certain members of their "elite" group that have invested in their product.

 

[MELSMICE]

As for the class system...well Disney does TREAT everyone the same. Sure amenities differ from place to place resort-wise but everyone is treated the same. People at Pop are treated just as magically, in my experience, as those at the Beach Club or Contemporary.

Definitely agree with this, and that is how it should be. They offer the different tiers of resort stays so that if you want better amenities (not service) you can choose that option yourself.

I'm sure there are many that can financially afford a deluxe but choose to stay at a value resort. It's like going to a grocery store or a restaurant. Service should be the same regardless of what or how much you purchase.

 

[chetcroc]

Thanks to everyone for the great discussion thread and the different perspectives. I agree with some points and disagree with others.

First, we are avid Disney fans and bought with DVC because of Disney's level of customer service to everyone, regardless of which resort you stay. With that said, this has nothing to do with changing the level of customer service and everything to do with enhancing the level of customer service. Being a DVC member alone, in my opinion, deserves what I call the 3 P's - Priority, Perks and Privileges. The reason I mentioned the tiered system is that this is how thousands of other organizations address their frequent customers. It would be great, if the fact of being a DVC member alone, would grant you special viewings, priority seating and of course the benefit of fast pass privileges. To me, buying into Disney should bring certain privileges to the buyer, than what is offered to the typical guest. You have not changed your service expectations overall, just added benefit for those who "invest" into and frequent your business.

Now, with that said, I do believe Disney can be compared to the airlines or hotel chains. Just because I bought DVC points does not mean I will be spending my time at the parks, which is what Disney wants you to do. The biggest selling tool the sales folks use is that by locking your room rates now, you beat the inflated pricing for the same level of room 30 years from now. When asked "why would Disney do this", the sales people say - Disney wants you to come to the parks and eat and shop and spend money at Disney. Well, guess what, Universal is 20 minutes away and I can use my points on any RCI property. So, in my opinion, it is certainly to Disney's advantage to offer the
3-P's for DVC owners. And the way to do this is either classify all DVC members as eligible for the 3-P's or create a tiered system that allows the 3-P's to expand as you buy additional points.

Lastly, it may benefit everyone if I explain my definition of what should be covered under the 3-P's program. Please add anything you think I may have missed. In my opinion, a DVC member should have, under the 3-P's program, the following - preferred room locations and views, preferred dining reservations with preferred seating and times, preferred fireworks viewing and show seating, preferred parking at the parks if you choose to drive (since the busses are getting more and more crowded) and unlimited fast pass+ privileges during your entire stay. I know I probably missed something, so please add what you think is important.

Again, I appreciate all of the comments and look forward to more discussion.

 

[SpaceMountain77]

Being a DVC member alone, in my opinion, deserves what I call the 3 P's - Priority, Perks and Privileges.

Ah, the wide-eyed optimism of a new DVC member. Several years ago, I recall posting a similar thread about exclusivity.

For what it is worth, you bought a timeshare; it just happens to be a Disney timeshare. DVC will neither bring you closer to Mickey Mouse nor provide you with additional pixie dust to get to Neverland.

You purchased a vacation interest that will ensure Disney vacationing for many more years to come. There are occasional offers and discounts, but you will be largely disappointed if you are expecting priority, perks and privileges.

 

[chetcroc]

Sorry, one last thing. I was reading through some of the replies and there seems to be debate on the average points that buyers have. In every sales pitch I have attended (I attend these while on the cruises), the sales people throw the number 220-360 as the average. And I have talked to many point holders on the cruise with 1000-2000. So, I think many of you may be off somewhat on the number of families with points over 500 to 1000.

Last, last thing - Many have said that Disney and DVC maintain the same level of customer service for everyone. Disney Cruise Line was featured on National news for canceling the reservations of hundreds on the Dream so they could use it for the DVC member cruise (which I will be on) in August. Disney and DVC seem to be doing some of the 3-P's I have been talking about. Just needs to step-it-up some.

 

[disneynutz]

Thanks to everyone for the great discussion thread and the different perspectives. I agree with some points and disagree with others.

First, we are avid Disney fans and bought with DVC because of Disney's level of customer service to everyone, regardless of which resort you stay. With that said, this has nothing to do with changing the level of customer service and everything to do with enhancing the level of customer service. Being a DVC member alone, in my opinion, deserves what I call the 3 P's - Priority, Perks and Privileges. The reason I mentioned the tiered system is that this is how thousands of other organizations address their frequent customers. It would be great, if the fact of being a DVC member alone, would grant you special viewings, priority seating and of course the benefit of fast pass privileges. To me, buying into Disney should bring certain privileges to the buyer, than what is offered to the typical guest. You have not changed your service expectations overall, just added benefit for those who "invest" into and frequent your business.

Now, with that said, I do believe Disney can be compared to the airlines or hotel chains. Just because I bought DVC points does not mean I will be spending my time at the parks, which is what Disney wants you to do. The biggest selling tool the sales folks use is that by locking your room rates now, you beat the inflated pricing for the same level of room 30 years from now. When asked "why would Disney do this", the sales people say - Disney wants you to come to the parks and eat and shop and spend money at Disney. Well, guess what, Universal is 20 minutes away and I can use my points on any RCI property. So, in my opinion, it is certainly to Disney's advantage to offer the
3-P's for DVC owners. And the way to do this is either classify all DVC members as eligible for the 3-P's or create a tiered system that allows the 3-P's to expand as you buy additional points.

Lastly, it may benefit everyone if I explain my definition of what should be covered under the 3-P's program. Please add anything you think I may have missed. In my opinion, a DVC member should have, under the 3-P's program, the following - preferred room locations and views, preferred dining reservations with preferred seating and times, preferred fireworks viewing and show seating, preferred parking at the parks if you choose to drive (since the busses are getting more and more crowded) and unlimited fast pass+ privileges during your entire stay. I know I probably missed something, so please add what you think is important.

Again, I appreciate all of the comments and look forward to more discussion.

We felt the same way years ago but after living DVC and being active members, attending association meetings, talking to DVC management and CM's from all levels, living through management terminations and re-organizations, point reallocations, and policy changes, I realized that DVC is a different animal not like Disney. They do not spend much effort to provide service after the sale, why, because they don't have to. Once a contract is sold, DVC has a guaranteed customer for the life of the contract.

Currently they have launched their Membership Magic program allowing DVC Members to purchase special events. I haven't priced the events but my guess is that they aren't losing money on them. It's a way of making Membership special at zero cost. Members soon to vacation are getting phone calls at home from MS advertising the Membership Magic events, at the same time Members are on hold anywhere fro 15 to 40 minutes waiting for MS, does that make sense?

DVC could be different, better website, more trained MS CM's less telephone hold time, rooms rehabbed and taken out of service when needed, but that's not the DVC business model.

Bill

 

[disneynutz]

Many have said that Disney and DVC maintain the same level of customer service for everyone. Disney Cruise Line was featured on National news for canceling the reservations of hundreds on the Dream so they could use it for the DVC member cruise (which I will be on) in August. Disney and DVC seem to be doing some of the 3-P's I have been talking about. Just needs to step-it-up some.

The only reason Disney canceled hundreds of cash reservations on the Dream is because they couldn't book a full boat on an old ship.

Disney has all kinds of analysts forecasting profit and revenue for everything and they take the steps necessary to make as much money as they can, if they can put a positive spin on it at the same time they will, they are very good at the spin game too.

Bill