Hiding in plain sight

[FergieTCat]

The President of Pakistan was on tv and he said, "we are moving on, it happened, we are mad, the U.S. didn't tell us and we aren't explaining a thing."

We are idiots if we continue to give them $3.5 billion annually. We also need to reduce our troops there.

I wonder what other countries are holding a knife behind their backs with one hand and stickng out the other hand for their annual payout.

 

[jen0610]

Answers to some of the questions posed:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110503/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_bin_laden_s_neighborhood

Quotes from the article.

People initially were curious about the heavily fortified compound — which had walls as high as 18 feet topped with barbed wire — but over time they just grew to believe the family inside was deeply religious and conservative.

"It needs to be appreciated that many houses (in the northwest) have high boundary walls, in line with their culture of privacy and security," the government said. "Houses with such layout and structural details are not a rarity."

Those who live nearby said the people in bin Laden's compound rarely strayed outside. Most were unaware that foreigners — bin Laden and his family are Arabs — were living there. Neighbors said they knew little about those inside in the compound but bin Laden apparently depended on two men who would routinely emerge to run errands or to a neighborhood gathering, such as a funeral.

While I do understand how - from the stand point of what they (the general public) deem customary for their culture - he could have lived there in plain sight of the neighbors, I do not believe for one moment that neither the Pakistan government and/or military had ZERO knowledge of who was living there.

 

[ols386]

We were talking about this yesterday. We figured that he could have been living next door to any of us and no one would really know. How many of you have neighbors you have never really seen/talked to, etc.

If he lived in my neighborhood, I can guarantee that people would at least attempt to find out who was living there. We live in a very friendly and open neighborhood/community.

It would seem that the house with the huge wall with barbed wire on top of it, would make people in the area curious about who was living there.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

If he lived in my neighborhood, I can guarantee that people would at least attempt to find out who was living there. We live in a very friendly and open neighborhood/community.

It would seem that the house with the huge wall with barbed wire on top of it, would make people in the area curious about who was living there.

And I think this is the difference between living in the U.S. and living in certain regions of places like Pakistan. Being nosy can get you killed.

 

[ols386]

The President of Pakistan was on tv and he said, "we are moving on, it happened, we are mad, the U.S. didn't tell us and we aren't explaining a thing."

I think the bolded statement says a lot!

And our response should be, "we aren't giving you anymore money".

 

[ols386]

And I think this is the difference between living in the U.S. and living in certain regions of places like Pakistan. Being nosy can get you killed.

That could very well be true.

 

[Anjelica]

This is why Pakistan should have HOA's - no way 10+ feet tall walls would have passed the indentures.

 

[IdesOmarch]

At first glance my reaction is that they better cut off that 3.5 billion pronto. But there are other issues to consider, primarily their nuclear stockpile. Part of our deal with them and the 3.5 Bil, maybe access to their arsenal so we can monitor it. I don't know for sure, but it sure would be about the only reason I wouldn't pull the funding.

The other is supposedly they have been cooperating with us on hunting down terrorist, and true there have been Pakistan forces that have partnered with us on some missions. Now obviously that is either a bad joke or token bones being thrown our way so that we think they are helping, or there are Pakistan military that the powers at be cannot control and this was being done behind their backs. Although I find that hard to believe. If I were the Pakistan leader and really didn't know about it, I would take the forces that were loyal to me and crush that internal opposition immediately.

If they don't do something along those lines, I think its safe to assume the primary Pakistan government was completely complicit in the entire situation, including possibly up to being responsible for hiding him.

 

[Deb in IA]

I have wondered that too, especially since he was only BLOCKS away from the Pakistani Miliary Academy, the equivalent of our West Point!!

 

[CurlyGirl]

And I think this is the difference between living in the U.S. and living in certain regions of places like Pakistan. Being nosy can get you killed.

Exactly!!! I think you don't question a lot of things in Pakistan. You keep your mouth shut, your head down, and go about your life without questioning what people are doing or why they're doing it. Maybe a husband and wife would talk about it in the privacy of their own home, but you're certainly not going to gossip with the neighbors about it.

 

[IdesOmarch]

Exactly!!! I think you don't question a lot of things in Pakistan. You keep your mouth shut, your head down, and go about your life without questioning what people are doing or why they're doing it. Maybe a husband and wife would talk about it in the privacy of their own home, but you're certainly not going to gossip with the neighbors about it.

Its not the neighbors fault he was hiding in plain site, its the Pakistan administration and the military. I think what it probably is, is the leadership was either complicit, and/or turned a blind eye and knew some rouge military were doing this behind their backs, but wasn't sure. Either way they were holding out. I can't imagine them not having any clue at all about this. I think its much more likely they were totally complicit. But the other side of the coin is why on earth would they do that? Why would they give a rats about protecting a terrorist thug like that that will no doubt turn on them one day, that part doesn't make any sense either. If I were the Pakistan leadership, I would want the guy killed pronto.

 

[PrincessKsMom]

Its not the neighbors fault he was hiding in plain site, its the Pakistan administration and the military. I think what it probably is, is the leadership was either complicit, and/or turned a blind eye and knew some rouge military were doing this behind their backs, but wasn't sure. Either way they were holding out. I can't imagine them not having any clue at all about this. I think its much more likely they were totally complicit. But the other side of the coin is why on earth would they do that? Why would they give a rats about protecting a terrorist thug like that that will no doubt turn on them one day, that part doesn't make any sense either. If I were the Pakistan leadership, I would want the guy killed pronto.

IMHO, because they were WINNING! Playing both sides of the fence. Cashing the checks and covering him. If they didn't he could have easily gotten to them. So they were allowed the best of both worlds. Protecting that SOB with our money, I'm sure.

 

[Bilberry]

Another theory I saw on the Bin Laden compound - it might have not been a home, but a prison.

"Why didn't bin Laden have a gun?"
http://isteve.blogspot.com/2011/05/why-didnt-bin-laden-have-gun.html

There could be a lot of reasons, but commenter Wandrin just pointed out one: If he were in prison.

Was that big wall around his compound to keep outsiders out or to keep bin Laden in? Or both?

 

[bumbershoot]

I think we're putting American-neighborhood sensibilities on a country that is vastly different. And I think we shouldn't do that.

We might not see or talk to them, but we sure as heck know who lives in the big ugly house. And prevented them from building the 8 foot walls they wanted.

Celebration residents tend to be a nosier, more intrusive bunch. We're just neighborly!

Sounds absolutely miserable to me! It's one of the reasons I like living in apartment buildings, b/c people keep to themselves. It's one of the difficult things for me, living in the condo building we live in, because everyone is neighborly and I'm expected to remember peoples' names (which has never been easy for me). My son and husband are neighborly and go to the parties and such, and every so often my son and I will pop in at the every other Wednesday lobby party, but that's for my son...I hang back as a wallflower while my kid amuses the mainly long-retired residents at the party...

And it's one of the things about having a house, one of the things that has kept me back from going forth with buying one, that I don't like...can't control your neighbors, and we'll probably be expected to know them. Bleah.


Heck, OBL could have been living in my building and I might not have known it...I still haven't met everyone. There was an elderly couple that hadn't been otu of their condo for years...their adult children visited, and they had a nurse every day, but when notice of their deaths (within a week of one another) went up on the bulletin board, I had never heard their names, let alone met them.

Answers to some of the questions posed:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110503/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan_bin_laden_s_neighborhood

Quotes from the article.

People initially were curious about the heavily fortified compound — which had walls as high as 18 feet topped with barbed wire — but over time they just grew to believe the family inside was deeply religious and conservative.

"It needs to be appreciated that many houses (in the northwest) have high boundary walls, in line with their culture of privacy and security," the government said. "Houses with such layout and structural details are not a rarity."

Those who live nearby said the people in bin Laden's compound rarely strayed outside. Most were unaware that foreigners — bin Laden and his family are Arabs — were living there. Neighbors said they knew little about those inside in the compound but bin Laden apparently depended on two men who would routinely emerge to run errands or to a neighborhood gathering, such as a funeral.

While I do understand how - from the stand point of what they (the general public) deem customary for their culture - he could have lived there in plain sight of the neighbors, I do not believe for one moment that neither the Pakistan government and/or military had ZERO knowledge of who was living there.

Excellent view inside a completely different culture!


I dated a guy from Iran just before college, and he spoke of his family's "compound" that they hoped to go back to once the leadership changed again. It had high walls and there was no need to go out because when they lived there they had servants for all of that. (and the reason i didn't marry him was when he said I wouldn't need to cover completely up while in the compound, but if I ever wanted to go out I would need to...this (former) California girl did not like that idea one little bit! oh, and I didn't love him.)

Our postman married a woman from India, and described their recent visit there...her family has money, and they too have a compound with high walls.

In America we see "compounds" as being highly negative and scary, but in other countries it's not so abnormal.

The other is supposedly they have been cooperating with us on hunting down terrorist, and true there have been Pakistan forces that have partnered with us on some missions.

In one article I read it said that Pakistan has found MANY terrorists "for" us (for the world, really, IMO). I see nothing token about that.

I've been thinking a lot about this...in a tiny little way, it's sort of like OBL was Charles Manson, and all the other people captured, the ones far more "involved" in more than the planning, are Manson's followers. YES it's very important that Manson was caught, but having the people who DID the deeds is not unimportant, in fact is VERY important as well.

So a country that has caught the "family", continuing with the Manson idea, is not an UN-helpful country, and that shouldn't be discounted.

 

[eliza61]

1) # 1 it's right next door to afgahnistan. so basically if you want to do a military operation in that area, you've got to have the help of the neighboring countries. makes it a lot easier. contrary to popular belief we can't go willy nilly into other soverign states.

2) Pakistan has nuclear weapons and India is developing them if not gotten them already. Like it or not, it makes security sense to have at least a cordial relationship with folks who are walking around with nukes. Do I think they would use them? maybe, maybe not. but you don't want them selling the technology to say North korea do you?

3) According to General petreaus and Defense secretary Robert Gates, Pakistan has been invaluable in the last 10 years, many of their citizens risking their lives to help the army. capturing many, many terrorist and giving valuable information. So what happens if they turn around and say, we will no longer help you at all. What happens if they totally close down their air space?

Now maybe they do have some explaining to do but be careful what you wish for, simply reneging on financial aid could cause a lot of instability. Whether we like it or not the U.S. can no longer play the "isolation" card. the world is way to interconnected.

 

[Carly_Roach]

I think we're putting American-neighborhood sensibilities on a country that is vastly different. And I think we shouldn't do that.

X2.

We're also talking diplomacy here - a fine art that escapes 99.9% of the US population who can only see things from their own POV.

What did Pakistan know or what didn't they know? I don't know. And I probably never will. In any case, that's none of my business because even if I did know there'd be absolutely nothing I could do about it anyway.

I also agree with bumber about it not being a good idea to cut Pakistan off completely. IMO they're far more valuable to us as an ally than they are as an enemy.