Heterosexuals who are tolerant of the same right of gays/lesbians--Question

[cardaway]

This is such an uplifting thread! Thank you for sharing.

Yes, despite the couple of tools who felt it necessary to trot out their "lifestyle" crap, it's been very nice to see how much better things are getting and why.

 

[pooh4evr]

For the most part we were raised in a tolerant home much more so than my Mom's upbringing- although as she gets older she exhibits (sp) more of an untolerant view of things different. That being said- I have known many people in my life and the only conclusion I have come to is that as long as you are a good person it should not matter what your preferences, color or religion. I hope my kids will feel that way too. When the day comes that the girls "bring some one home" I just want them to be someone who will treat them well, respact and love them- no matter their gender or color. As for the rest of my family - my Dads side is very strict Catholic (my grandma prays extra for my husband and I because he is not Catholic ) It s kind of ironic thought that they have a daughter and a nephew who are both gay. So I guess in a nutshell after all that- I think marriages should be legal and all rights other couples share in regards to next of kin in hospital situations and so on, children (adoption) and well everything should be equal.

 

[andromedaslove]

But I have to say, I was talking to my grandfather the other night, who's 80 years old. We were watching Ellen Degeneres. He's a very genuine and loving man, with a heavy french accent. He looks at the tv and says "Ellen, isn't she what they say Lesbian? I don't know much about that, but she's a very nice person who brings so much joy to so many people, who cares who she loves." I thought it was so sweet to see someone of that age who was raised in a very conservative manner, be so open minded.

Oh my gosh!! That is quite possibly one of the sweetest things I have ever heard!! I grew up spending ALOT of time with my grandparents, because my Mom was a single parent. They weren't the most accepting people in the world, but I think they tried their best. My grandparents were not accepting AT ALL when I came home with a black boyfriend. He was a wonderful stand up kind of guy, but they couldn't get past the color of his skin. I remember as a teenager my Mom flat out telling me that in nicer words, if I were gay she would disown me. That she couldn't have a lesbian for a daughter. Not that it was really an issue for me. To say the least as a teenager I was open to trying lots of things, but knew where I stood as far as my sexual preference went. I don't think that their way of thinking really influenced the way that I was. I had many black, gay/lesbian/ and bisexual friends, and I never even as a child judged them for that just because of the way I was raised.

I think that if two people love each other that's all that matters. It isn't the religous people's place to tell that what is right or wrong, or try to control what they do just because it makes the religous people uncomfortable. In my opinion that goes against the rights of everyone. By the way, I am religous but I choose not to attend a church, we teach our children about our religion in our home. In my opinion, it isn't our right to tell anyone what to do with their lives or tell them where they will go in the afterlife, that decision should be left to the man upstairs himself. BTW, I am not one of those who believe that being g/l means you will go to heII.

Ok, done ranting now!!

Dana

 

[icebrat001]

Keep in mind I grew up in a very affluent community.

My family thought...
whites could not be trusted
hispanics should be maids/do yard work
asians should be manicurist
and days were satans children, the sickest people on earth, full of disease.

When I was 4 I told my mother that I was going to marry a girl and she freaked, said I couldn't be a "maggot with a F".

So when I told her at 15 she told me when I finished high school that would be my last day as her family and we would never talk or see one another again.

I havent seen or spoken to anyone.

 

[CheshireVal]

It wasn't really discussed much either way in our household, now that I think back on it. I don't remember ever having specific discussions about homosexuals-- I'm not sure it ever really came up in a way that would ever be an issue.

My parents were always pretty tolerant/open-minded about people-- it never occurred to me not to be that way, too.

 

[ead79]

My parents and I feel largely the same about the issue of homosexuality. That being said, they do not personally know any g/l people, so I think the idea is more of a concept to them than a situation with a face as someone else put it so eloquently. I, however, do have several g/l friends, so the issue is more “real” to me if that makes sense.

As a Christian, I do view the behavior as a sin based on the Bible. However, I absolutely cannot tolerate it when people jump on the “judgment bandwagon” and attempt to point out g/l people as some sort of “really bad sinners.” It seems to me that people who are so quick to judge others and speak to them in harsh tones are avoiding looking at their own lives and worrying about their own lives first. I cannot and will not tolerate people using hate-filled speech about another person. The way I see it is that we’re all sinners, so who am I to try to point out somebody else as being one. I’m going to focus on loving all people, regardless of their lifestyle, and I hope they will choose the same for me. I’ll let God worry about the judgment. I think it’s easy when you see yourself as not being perfect to love others—if we’re all in the same boat there isn’t as much room for judgment.

FWIW, I support legal unions for g/l people so they have the same access to healthcare, survivors rights, etc. as a heterosexual couple. I don’t support calling it “marriage” per se. I think that all people should receive “legal union” paperwork (whether gay or straight) that gives you the rights of a married couple today, then let churches handle marriages (each church deciding who they will or won’t marry according to their beliefs). Sorry, I guess that’s a bit of a tangent.

 

[Laura]

My parents and I feel largely the same about the issue of homosexuality. That being said, they do not personally know any g/l people, so I think the idea is more of a concept to them than a situation with a face as someone else put it so eloquently. I, however, do have several g/l friends, so the issue is more “real” to me if that makes sense.

As a Christian, I do view the behavior as a sin based on the Bible. However, I absolutely cannot tolerate it when people jump on the “judgment bandwagon” and attempt to point out g/l people as some sort of “really bad sinners.” It seems to me that people who are so quick to judge others and speak to them in harsh tones are avoiding looking at their own lives and worrying about their own lives first. I cannot and will not tolerate people using hate-filled speech about another person. The way I see it is that we’re all sinners, so who am I to try to point out somebody else as being one. I’m going to focus on loving all people, regardless of their lifestyle, and I hope they will choose the same for me. I’ll let God worry about the judgment. I think it’s easy when you see yourself as not being perfect to love others—if we’re all in the same boat there isn’t as much room for judgment.

FWIW, I support legal unions for g/l people so they have the same access to healthcare, survivors rights, etc. as a heterosexual couple. I don’t support calling it “marriage” per se. I think that all people should receive “legal union” paperwork (whether gay or straight) that gives you the rights of a married couple today, then let churches handle marriages (each church deciding who they will or won’t marry according to their beliefs). Sorry, I guess that’s a bit of a tangent.

I can kind of understand your position, and I'm glad you want gays to have rights like us heterosexual folk. But I have to say that I don't really want to be considered "legally united" to my husband instead of "married" just because I didn't have a religious wedding. I'm just as married as my sister is, and she had a full-length Mass as her wedding ceremony. We both had to go to the courthouse and do the "legal union" paperwork anyway, regardless of who performed the ceremony and where.

Semantics, I know, but marriage is simply not strictly a religious institution.

 

[CheshireVal]

FWIW, I support legal unions for g/l people so they have the same access to healthcare, survivors rights, etc. as a heterosexual couple. I don’t support calling it “marriage” per se. I think that all people should receive “legal union” paperwork (whether gay or straight) that gives you the rights of a married couple today, then let churches handle marriages (each church deciding who they will or won’t marry according to their beliefs). Sorry, I guess that’s a bit of a tangent.

I agree with the previous poster about this. I don't really like that "legal union" idea, to be honest. I didn't get married in a church because I don't belong to one (though I'm a Christian). But I did get married by a pastor, who is my cousin's husband.

I don't think people should have to go through a church to be considered legally married.

 

[ead79]

I can kind of understand your position, and I'm glad you want gays to have rights like us heterosexual folk. But I have to say that I don't really want to be considered "legally united" to my husband instead of "married" just because I didn't have a religious wedding. I'm just as married as my sister is, and she had a full-length Mass as her wedding ceremony. We both had to go to the courthouse and do the "legal union" paperwork anyway, regardless of who performed the ceremony and where.

Semantics, I know, but marriage is simply not strictly a religious institution.

I totally understand your point of view. I realize that the concept I talked about would be very different from what is done now. I’ll admit that I don’t know this for a fact, but I thought I had heard that marriage did begin as a religious institution, and now has morphed into more of a religious and/or civil one depending on the couple. I could be wrong though.

 

[TheRatPack]

I thought long and hard about the word tolerant and almost didn't use it, but I looked it up first and figured that it fit the bill as well as anything that I could come up with, even though my initial feel was that it meant "to put up with", which wasn't my intention using the word.

The meaning that I came up with was: adj 1: showing respect for the rights or opinions or practices of others .

I agree with your interpretation/definition Tigger&Belle. I tolerate a lot of things that I don't necessarily approve of. Someone else used the word embrace, and although that is a lovely word to describe how you accept other cultures or sexual preferences I don't feel that word would necessarily fit the way I feel about it.

I don't 'put up with' anyones sexual preference, religious beliefs, race....etc. I do however accept that I have a freedom and that freedom is also extended to them. No matter what my beliefs are, and no matter how I feel on the matter I accept that they have a right to choose what they think is right and I don't have a right to condone them for choosing differently than I might have.

I don't however embrace a g/l lifestyle, and really I do not 'accept' it either. I just accept that everyone has a right to make their own decision, regardless of my point of view or way of life

 

[ead79]

I agree with the previous poster about this. I don't really like that "legal union" idea, to be honest. I didn't get married in a church because I don't belong to one (though I'm a Christian). But I did get married by a pastor, who is my cousin's husband.

I don't think people should have to go through a church to be considered legally married.

It’s funny you should mention that. I got married at WDW, so it obviously wasn’t in a church. An ordained minister performed my ceremony (which was very religious in it’s language). I think what I was trying to say is that it would keep the civil/legal aspects separate from the ceremonial aspects if there were legal unions for everyone, then “marriages” performed by ministers. I think that what I would want to avoid is churches being forced to marry g/l couples even if it goes against their beliefs.

 

[cardaway]

But I have to say that I don't really want to be considered "legally united" to my husband instead of "married" just because I didn't have a religious wedding. I'm just as married as my sister is, and she had a full-length Mass as her wedding ceremony. We both had to go to the courthouse and do the "legal union" paperwork anyway, regardless of who performed the ceremony and where.

Semantics, I know, but marriage is simply not strictly a religious institution.

Exactly. Another attempt at the "separate but equal" idea that we know has turned into not really equal in the past given the opposition in this case.

It's really too bad the government had to get into the marrige business in the first place, but now that they have, I can't Christians ever giving up the that government recognized marriage has to be the Christian version.

 

[Miss Inga Depointe]

I think that what I would want to avoid is churches being forced to marry g/l couples even if it goes against their beliefs.

I don't see how that would ever happen. In fact, I think people who want to prohibit gay marriage tend to try to scare church going folks into thinking that gay rights means that their minister will be forced to marry people he or she doesn't want to.

Churches should have the right to marry who they like. But the government should offer equal rights to everyone.

Back to the original question. My parents taught me to be open minded and about equal rights being an important part of being an American. They never talked about homosexuality because they didn't know any gay people and it just wasn't something they gave much thought to. Today, my parents ask me alot about it and I can see that they are tryng to understand it and be accepting.

 

[AnaheimGirl]

I don't see how that would ever happen. In fact, I think people who promote the idea of gay marriage tend to try to scare church going folks into thinking that gay rights means that their minister will be forced to marry people he or she doesn't want to.

Did you use the wrong word there? Did you really mean "people who want to prohibit gay marriage", versus those who promote? Because that's the way I see it. Those who promote gay marriage wouldn't want to scare people into thinking such a silly thing. It's those against same-sex marriage who want to scare people into thinking their church will be forced to marry same-sex partners. And sadly, it seems to be working.

I also don't see it happening and don't understand how anyone could think it would. The Catholic church right now is not forced to recognize divorce, just because it's legal. Many churches require couples counseling before marriage, and this is still legal, even though it's not a governmental requirement. Why on earth would same-sex marriage be any different?

Churches should have the right to marry who they like. But the government should offer equal rights to everyone.

This is a very good and succint way of putting it.

 

[Tigger&Belle]

(Sorry if this got too OT, Tigger&Belle. I just couldn't stop my fingers!)

I'm that LAST person that could ever say anything about a thread going off topic--I'm the queen of derailing threads! A special knack of mine that must drive other "on topic" people crazy.

 

[Miss Inga Depointe]

Did you use the wrong word there? Did you really mean "people who want to prohibit gay marriage", versus those who promote?

Yes, oops! I'll change that! Thanks!

 

[ead79]

I haven’t been “scared” into thinking any certain way by anyone. Perhaps you think it could never happen (I’m referring to church’s being forced to marry someone); I disagree. Please don’t paint with a broad brush and assume that fear drives my perception. I didn’t mean to hijack this thread—sorry about that!

 

[Tigger&Belle]

I never thought anyone would choose to be that way (for more than say a wild evening anyway ) because it would be a hard "choice." I really, truly believe that our basic sexuality is hardwired in the brain and that society does *some* shaping of it but, basically, you can't go against what is inside.

Christine, when I meet you, I want to hear about that wild night!

 

[cardaway]

It's those against same-sex marriage who want to scare people into thinking their church will be forced to marry same-sex partners. And sadly, it seems to be working.

I also don't see it happening and don't understand how anyone could think it would. The Catholic church right now is not forced to recognize divorce, just because it's legal. Many churches require couples counseling before marriage, and this is still legal, even though it's not a governmental requirement. Why on earth would same-sex marriage be any different?

I agree, nothing but another scare tactic. Sad that it's used so often and that it seems to work.

 

[Nancyg56]

Keep in mind I grew up in a very affluent community.

My family thought...
whites could not be trusted
hispanics should be maids/do yard work
asians should be manicurist
and days were satans children, the sickest people on earth, full of disease.

When I was 4 I told my mother that I was going to marry a girl and she freaked, said I couldn't be a "maggot with a F".

So when I told her at 15 she told me when I finished high school that would be my last day as her family and we would never talk or see one another again.

I havent seen or spoken to anyone.

How very sad for her. I cannot imagine giving up a child of mine for any reason.

My own mother never spoke about G/L. I'm not even sure that she thought about it. She was raised in an era when you did not marry outside of your own ethnic background or your faith. Imagine her stuffyish Canadian French Dad having to deal with my Irish fun loving hugging everyone Dad. I remember that she sometimes bucked the system when she really did not want us to grow up avoiding people who were "different." Kinda hard to do that in a strict Catholic home.

My first DH brother was gay. His Mom and Dad had such a hard time with this, and for a long period of time avoided him and his partner. We lost him over 10 years ago to aids. This family had to work so hard to overcome hard feelings and pain, but thank God that they did, they had all lost so much time together.

Now, I really admire these two old gals. They are elderly women who believe that fighting over this is such a waste of valuable time. They have seen so much bigotry in their lifetime. The belief that was so important to my MIL at one time will never bring back lost years with her first born. My own DM has gotten so "worldly" now, and she spends her powerful prayer time praying that her grandson comes home from Iraq alive and without harm, that her family stays healthy. She said she'll let God handle the rest.