Here it is - Announcement re More FP+ Beginning 4/28

[OtherScott]

That - in my opinion (I haven't seen an official announcement) - is exactly what it will do. Which is why this announcement doesn't seem like great news to me.

Basically, this is extending one of the biggest problems of FP+, which is that now there are FP lanes in so many rides where they didn't used to be. Now they are increasing the number of FP they are giving out for all those secondary rides.

So, FP has blown up touring strategies in these ways:

Rope drop diminished, because people are in the FP lane at 9:00am
Tiers and one-and-done limits on the FP you can reserve
FP lines are longer because of the higher usage
Secondary rides have longer lines because they are now part of the FP system

This change really doesn't help any of those problems, in fact it exacerbates them. I can appreciate that an effort is being made to improve the experience, but I don't think this will do it.

Where were the people who now populate these lines before FP+?

It seems to me that FP+ isn't the problem, it's FP = 90% is.

Had Disney gotten 90% to use legacy FP, result would have been the same - except you would have no prebooking of favorite 3*.



*Some restrictions apply, see store for details. Not applicable in FL.

 

[DisneyFive]

Trust me, you are preaching to the choir when you're talking about your feelings on the tiers. Many, many of us agree with you, even people who do overall like FP+.

Tiering is necessary for FP+ to function in the way Disney wants it to. And that's what counts. That's why it's not going anywhere until those parks see significant expansion.

Agreed. ...and thanks for the nice reply.

This latest announcement is a nice change to the current FP+ system IMO, but as I said with my "just back report" last year, I still like the old paper FP system. (and that's considering that we used FP+ when there was NO tiering and you could double dip, which I think we only did once or twice in 9 days)

Take care.

Dan

 

[DisneyFive]

It seems to me that FP+ isn't the problem, it's FP = 90% is.

Had Disney gotten 90% to use legacy FP, result would have been the same - except you would have no prebooking of favorite 3*.
*Some restrictions apply, see store for details. Not applicable in FL.

I think there's lots of merit to this, although I don't have the hard numbers. The promotioin of FP+ has raised awareness, and I suspect many more guests are using the FP system. I would LOVE to see the numbers, what % used FP- and what are now using FP+.

Dan

 

[practicallyperfect77]

I am seeing lots of availability at 12:30 pm for everything that was once out even Toy Story Mania... It looks like checking on extra fast passes today at 12:30 would have been great but who knows what the future holds.

Thanks Mom Poppins! This is the information I'm interested in seeing. Am I mistaken or is the only way to see availability if you have tickets or an AP linked to MDE?

 

[garjanjones]

Do they have FP+ windows during extra magic hours?

No. I actually wanted to get safari right at the end of meh window...long story there ( not staying in the park long, and wanting to do mostly characters...which Are not available during meh), but couldn't get the option to book before regular rope drop.

 

[Sammie]

Disney boards aren't the only place people complained. Almost everyone (non Disney fanatic) that I have talked to about this had the immediate reaction of "why do I want to schedule rides 2 months in advance??". I think it is a bit offbase to assume the only people who don't like the system are a small few on a message.board.

Beyond that, even many (dare I say most) of those here who have liked fp+ from the beginning have said all along they didn't like the limit of 3 and lack of park hooping either. So, imo, to say that only a small few "complained" (I.e. gave Disney feedback on those 2 things) is a bit inaccurate.

I am aware there are other places people complained but it was still a very small percentage compared to number of guests that visit.

 

[clsteve]

Had this "do research, arrive early, tour effectively" advice resulted in 90% of guests adopting and using it, the result would have been similar to FP+.

Disney developed a mechanism to put this advice into practice across a broad group - more broadly than some would like.

And this is where it starts to get interesting: we have no idea where it's going and, scarily enough, neither does Disney.

This is a social experiment as much as anything else and one that's never been tried before- using ride capacity to manage human behavior...

They have the blue sky, 50,000 ft level models and estimates they paid dearly for, but that can't tell them what the backlash might be for HM and POTC now having crazy stand-by times because the ride and queue configurations weren't designed for this. Or, will guests actually conform to what they expect as far as time in or out of the Parks?

Now, the capacity issue will be out there for everyone to see. Plus, the evidence that not everybody gets to see and reserve the same things based on guest-type is now starting to pop up.

Are FP's being held back for same day? If so, can I only see it when I'm in the Park

Do I need to continually check back day after day to see what comes available after I made my 60 day advanced ressies?

Why can that on-site guest see availability that I, as an off-site AP holder, can't?

Do I risk hopping, just hoping that something good is still there for my 4th FP?

Man, does it and should it really need to be this complex?

 

[Sammie]

Are you honestly being serious?

And to the bolded...what about the families they screwed over in the meantime? Or is their plan really to focus on the "one and done crowd"? Disney must measure their success differently than most companies.

If I use your analogy, it's like they offered up a crap burger with the intention of eventually using 50% less crap in their burger in case people complained they were tired of eating so much crap.

And I disagree....Disney was really stupid in this case.

ETA -you revised your post since I quoted the original but it still has a certain "stench" to it.

It truly makes no difference, because these changes, adding the ability to get more Fastpass+ and park hopping were in the plans all along. They just had no intention of rolling out everything on Day one.

I don't think they screwed over anyone. No one had to participate in the Tests. It was all well advertised. And in case anyone forgets going to Disney is something everyone makes a choice to do. If what they offer does not feel worth it for the cost, then they can choose not do go.

What I find humorous is some honestly believe that Disney owes them exactly what they want and the way they want it.

Kinda hard to do that with millions of guests visiting every year. Parks are packed I don't think it hurt their business at all.

 

[Laketravis]

Wouldn't it be great if all of this had its roots in a high-level executive discussion in which the topic was "Gee, how can we enhance the magic, spread the pixie dust, increase the happiness and satisfaction levels of every single one of our park guests in the fairest and most equitable manner possible?"

Because if that was the original intent, then many of the posts I read would make total sense.

But that was not the original intent. The objective was how to accommodate more guests, get those guests to spend more, and to do so by leveraging existing capacity in the parks without substantially increasing that capacity thru the use of yield management techniques to maximize unused capacity of less-than popular attractions by forcing them into the choice pool and literally manufacturing demand for attractions that previously had none.

That's where we are today. And as clsteve posted above, quite the social experiment.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

That - in my opinion (I haven't seen an official announcement) - is exactly what it will do. Which is why this announcement doesn't seem like great news to me.

Basically, this is extending one of the biggest problems of FP+, which is that now there are FP lanes in so many rides where they didn't used to be. Now they are increasing the number of FP they are giving out for all those secondary rides.

So, FP has blown up touring strategies in these ways:

Rope drop diminished, because people are in the FP lane at 9:00am
Tiers and one-and-done limits on the FP you can reserve
FP lines are longer because of the higher usage
Secondary rides have longer lines because they are now part of the FP system

This change really doesn't help any of those problems, in fact it exacerbates them. I can appreciate that an effort is being made to improve the experience, but I don't think this will do it.

My thoughts exactly.

I was geniuely shocked at the constant stream of FP+ riders on Maelstrom until I realized it and the M&G were the only two FP+ in Group 1 available.

It sort of highlights the lack of anything new and interesting at Epcot if that is the best you have to offer guests that day.

The other thing I noticed is the amount of empty tables at Le Cellier for lunch. That place had always been jammed peak season. I ended up cancelling two of my TS lunches because I felt overscheduled.

DHS is still a half day so I won't stick around for dinner there.

 

[morethananyonex]

It truly makes no difference, because these changes, adding the ability to get more Fastpass+ and park hopping were in the plans all along. They just had no intention of rolling out everything on Day one.

Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying a lessened experience to those of us who visited during "the dark months" makes no difference because the changes were planned all along? It makes no difference in the long run or to the group, but it sure makes a difference to my family and the others like mine.

I couldn't care less about anyone's vacation experience that is not my own. Maybe that makes me an awful person, meh, I'll take it. I've yet to see someone whose trips are negatively impacted by FP+ love FP+ because of what it does for the greater good.

Wouldn't it be great if all of this had its roots in a high-level executive discussion in which the topic was "Gee, how can we enhance the magic, spread the pixie dust, increase the happiness and satisfaction levels of every single one of our park guests in the fairest and most equitable manner possible?"

Because if that was the original intent, then many of the posts I read would make total sense.

But that was not the original intent. The objective was how to accommodate more guests, get those guests to spend more, and to do so by leveraging existing capacity in the parks without substantially increasing that capacity thru the use of yield management techniques to maximize unused capacity of less-than popular attractions by forcing them into the choice pool and literally manufacturing demand for attractions that previously had none.

That's where we are today.

 

[mom2rtk]

I am aware there are other places people complained but it was still a very small percentage compared to number of guests that visit.

Because you counted?

 

[KS_Disney_Dad]

Possible solutions to what seem to be the biggest issues so far in this post...

-Change tier system to a time range before you can schedule the 2nd ride (3 hours between rides? ).

-Make kiosks only for those local area rides - kiosk will only have Space Mountain, Buzz, and Stitch. Want your 4th FP to be BTMRR, go to the kiosk in that area.

I think the panic of kiosks being long lines is probably inaccurate (outside of the end user taking all day to decide). Right now we can pick our ride, pick our time. I have a feeling that with the kiosks in the park it will be "this is the ride we have with these times, take it or leave it". I don't think you'll be able to search for Space Mountain each half hour of the day. If I'm wrong and you can search every ride by every 15 minute interval - then yeah, you're gonna need a FP for the kiosks.

As for you should get a 4th pass because you chose Wishes - nah. That same logic says that if I chose BTMRR at 9pm, I should get another one.

The only issue I have at this time is that they're electronic fast passes instead of the paper. I have a feeling people will schedule an attraction just to have something. If they use it great, if not, no biggie. But it is to the person who actually does want that attraction. At least with paper you can give it to a stranger.

One issue that I can see arise (if it hasn't already), and I hope Disney squashes it immediately, is line saving. I'll wait in a 60 minute line while half my group goes and does there FP and then when they're done they just jump in with only a 10 minute wait. I can see this happening with Soarin and TT. Same with TSM, ToT, and RnR.

Just my two cents...

 

[Sammie]

Am I misunderstanding, or are you saying a lessened experience to those of us who visited during "the dark months" makes no difference because the changes were planned all along? It makes no difference in the long run or to the group, but it sure makes a difference to my family and the others like mine.

I couldn't care less about anyone's vacation experience that is not my own. Maybe that makes me an awful person, meh, I'll take it. I've yet to see someone whose trips are negatively impacted by FP+ love FP+ because of what it does for the greater good.

If someone complained about only getting 3 Fastpasses and not being able to park hop, then those complaints did not produce any changes as those changes were coming regardless.

You honestly think Disney can make everyone happy. That is totally unrealistic.

They said from the very beginning, it was a Test. They also said it would evolve. Some of you were just not willing to wait and see what the changes would be.

Some still won't like it and that is their right and they have to decide to accept it as is or move on somewhere else.

 

[Sammie]

Because you counted?

No because I know someone that works in the department. Do you follow what is going on at the Polynesian? Do you follow Tikiman and his updates? If you do, do you think he has a crystal ball he uses, of course not. As he said, he knows the people that do the work.

I have no idea why it is so hard for some of you to believe that some of us know people that actually do know.

 

[notnothin]

No because I know someone that works in the department.

LOL .. come on. This is getting ridiculous at this point.

 

[mom2rtk]

No because I know someone that works in the department. Do you follow what is going on at the Polynesian? Do you follow Tikiman and his updates? If you do, do you think he has a crystal ball he uses, of course not. As he said, he knows the people that do the work.

I have no idea why it is so hard for some of you to believe that some of us know people that actually do know.

In the counting department?

And sorry, but I don't follow what's going on at the Polynesian.

 

[OtherScott]

And this is where it starts to get interesting: we have no idea where it's going and, scarily enough, neither does Disney.

This is a social experiment as much as anything else and one that's never been tried before- using ride capacity to manage human behavior...

They have the blue sky, 50,000 ft level models and estimates they paid dearly for, but that can't tell them what the backlash might be for HM and POTC now having crazy stand-by times because the ride and queue configurations weren't designed for this. Or, will guests actually conform to what they expect as far as time in or out of the Parks?

Now, the capacity issue will be out there for everyone to see. Plus, the evidence that not everybody gets to see and reserve the same things based on guest-type is now starting to pop up.

Are FP's being held back for same day? If so, can I only see it when I'm in the Park

Do I need to continually check back day after day to see what comes available after I made my 60 day advanced ressies?

Why can that on-site guest see availability that I, as an off-site AP holder, can't?

Do I risk hopping, just hoping that something good is still there for my 4th FP?

Man, does it and should it really need to be this complex?

While the unknown can be scary, I think what Disney saw years out was more scary. This is a bold move - one that signals to me it was of necessity.

I don't know what Disney knows...I don't know what I don't know. But their business is tapping into emotion to trigger behavioral responses. They've demonstrated an ability to succeed across a broad array of mediums, generally, and given very little alternatives, I'd bet them in the long run.

 

[notnothin]

In the counting department?

Props, Mom. Good one.

 

[Sammie]

In the counting department?

And sorry, but I don't follow what's going on at the Polynesian.

You seriously don't believe Disney has a department that tracks guest feedback? Then you don't know them at all. Or anything about any major company that track consumer feedback.

They monitor these forums and others, they monitor Facebook, twitter.

They do guest surveys. So yes they have numbers and percentages as to what the feedback was since this began.

If you don't believe they track this, then why do so many feel their complaints were listened to and brought about these changes.

The very reason so many people leave this forum is due to this, it seems only a few on here think their comments are credible.