Herbst appliance or headgear

[katie01]

which would you choose for your 11 year old for an overbite (braces will be applied with either option we choose), and why? Will both have essentially the same results on profile after treatment? I'm finding it hard to find reliable sources online, some sites even say that braces "ruin" the profile or that there is some sort of "headgear" effect that causes all sorts of ills (breathing problems, bad profile, longer face) but I don't know if that is junk science or based on any facts. I'd be glad to hear any real life experience with either

 

[kimblebee]

As a parent, I would avoid putting my kid in headgear at all costs. Kids are mean and will jump on any little thing they can to tease others. It’s easier to say ignore it than to actually ignore it.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

As a parent, I would avoid putting my kid in headgear at all costs. Kids are mean and will jump on any little thing they can to tease others. It’s easier to say ignore it than to actually ignore it.

Typically headgear is only worn at night, when home.

 

[katie01]

Typically headgear is only worn at night, when home.

Yes, that is correct, I'm trying to edit my post but computer is being glitch-ey. Headgear would only be worn at night. Herbst is non removable (may interfere with eating, at least initially)

 

[Southernmiss]

Typically headgear is only worn at night, when home.

This. Did your orthodontist tell you what they expect for each-headgear and the appliance?

Orthodontics has become much less complicated than when I had braces. My kid's total experience was such a non-event. They had night time headgear, but it was such a short amt of time that I don't remember it.

The initial consult for child #4 in braces sounded like the treatment would be much longer and more of a process than it turned out to be.

I would go with whichever apparatus is easier for my kid to follow through with.

Seeing your update, I would do headgear. I've worked with teens with non removable appliances and their speech is affected, too.

Braces have become such a 'thing' now, that kids here are excited to get braces. It's like a status symbol or something that no one makes fun of them. Kids get to pick colors of rubber bands, etc.

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Yeah, I was trying to add something to my post, also. And it went POOF!

Anyway, OP, I had headgear as a child (bad overbite). I wore it only at night, and it held my upper jaw in position (didn't allow it to grow), while (in theory) the lower jaw would grow and "fix" things. Yeah, well, that didn't happen. Still have an overbite, and front teeth don't meet up to bite food well.

My son, also with overbite, had head gear, but the upper braces were also connected to the lower jaw to encourage it to grow/move forward to line up teeth. His teeth seem to fit together, maybe a little overbite, but he definitely has a jaw/chin line. I don't.

 

[Flowerem]

which would you choose for your 11 year old for an overbite (braces will be applied with either option we choose), and why? Will both have essentially the same results on profile after treatment? I'm finding it hard to find reliable sources online, some sites even say that braces "ruin" the profile or that there is some sort of "headgear" effect that causes all sorts of ills (breathing problems, bad profile, longer face) but I don't know if that is junk science or based on any facts. I'd be glad to hear any real life experience with either

My daughter ended up with both. I can tell you I wouldn’t do the herbst appliance again. It was an awful experience for her and she had a lot of problems with it. We weren’t given a choice and I really wish I’d have gone to another orthodontist before agreeing to do it.

 

[katie01]

Thanks everyone. I didn't add a lot of detail in my first post, but can do so now in response to questions. I had a consult with ortho #1. They said Herbst and full braces the same day, didn't offer any options. I was concerned, the videos I saw on YouTube about the Herbst showed kids talking with a lisp and what looked like a face full of metal, and talking about mouth sores, trouble eating, and all of that. I went to ortho #2. He had a great bedside manner, took more time making measurements with DD, explained things well, and said she could have Herbst OR headgear, her choice. If he does the Herbst, he won't do full braces the same day like the other guy. DD is a rule following kid and I know she'd wear the headgear every night. My concerns with the Herbst is she has a lot of mouth sensitivity as it is, and she worries about peers making fun of her--she said she's afraid of not being able to talk correctly with the Herbst, or not being able to eat. But she says she wants to do what is best overall for her teeth and bite. I just can't figure out what that is! Like I said I'm reading all these stories of "headgear effect" and it affecting the face, but mostly written by orthodontists with some new "pioneering" method, not by actual patients who supposedly lived through these so-called "horrors" of headgear ruining their face.

 

[katie01]

My daughter ended up with both. I can tell you I wouldn’t do the herbst appliance again. It was an awful experience for her and she had a lot of problems with it. We weren’t given a choice and I really wish I’d have gone to another orthodontist before agreeing to do it.

I'm so sorry your daughter had a bad experience! Do you think she would have been ok had she just had headgear, no Herbst? Or has someone told you there is a better option out there?

 

[katie01]

Yeah, I was trying to add something to my post, also. And it went POOF!

Anyway, OP, I had headgear as a child (bad overbite). I wore it only at night, and it held my upper jaw in position (didn't allow it to grow), while (in theory) the lower jaw would grow and "fix" things. Yeah, well, that didn't happen. Still have an overbite, and front teeth don't meet up to bite food well.

My son, also with overbite, had head gear, but the upper braces were also connected to the lower jaw to encourage it to grow/move forward to line up teeth. His teeth seem to fit together, maybe a little overbite, but he definitely has a jaw/chin line. I don't.

Ah, that is interesting, so maybe the way they are doing the headgear nowadays is better or more effective?

 

[PrincessShmoo]

Ah, that is interesting, so maybe the way they are doing the headgear nowadays is better or more effective?

I would hope so. It's been over 50 years since I had my orthodonture work done. I would think there have been SOME improvements.

 

[katie01]

This. Did your orthodontist tell you what they expect for each-headgear and the appliance?

Orthodontics has become much less complicated than when I had braces. My kid's total experience was such a non-event. They had night time headgear, but it was such a short amt of time that I don't remember it.

The initial consult for child #4 in braces sounded like the treatment would be much longer and more of a process than it turned out to be.

I would go with whichever apparatus is easier for my kid to follow through with.

Seeing your update, I would do headgear. I've worked with teens with non removable appliances and their speech is affected, too.

Braces have become such a 'thing' now, that kids here are excited to get braces. It's like a status symbol or something that no one makes fun of them. Kids get to pick colors of rubber bands, etc.

The expectations were about the same timeline for Herbst or headgear--that she'd likely need either of those for one year, and braces a total of two years. They just said she'd wear headgear "at night" but she's ok with wearing it at home immediately after school too.

Yes, the affected speech is a concern for my DD too. She likes singing, acting, and she plays sports, so she's concerned she won't be able to do that with the non-removable appliance (that Herbst sticks out so far on the sides, it seems like it could hurt the face quite a bit if you get hit with a ball). Again though she did say she will do whatever we think is best, but I can tell she's nervous about the Herbst and not nervous about the headgear--her only concern with headgear is the same as mine, if it will work as well.

Thanks for your thoughts!

 

[katie01]

I would hope so. It's been over 50 years since I had my orthodonture work done. I would think there have been SOME improvements.

lol definitely!

 

[Flowerem]

I'm so sorry your daughter had a bad experience! Do you think she would have been ok had she just had headgear, no Herbst? Or has someone told you there is a better option out there?

My daughter had a headgear after the herbst and it was far better for her.

She had speech issues as a younger child and the herbst made everything so much worse. They sent us to a special speech therapy person who apparently works with patients who have appliances that affect speech. She did not improve at all and after a year they removed the herbst and we did a headgear. The headgear was so much easier and less invasive I was upset with myself for letting them keep the herbst there for so long.

The headgear took a few nights to get used to it but after that it was so much better! I just asked my daughter what she would say to your daughter who is trying to decide which option to choose. Her response: “Mom, tell her it was terrible! The headgear was so much easier and less painful, I wouldn’t advise anyone to get one if there’s an alternative.” She’s 17 years old now btw and I think she was 13 when she had the herbst.

 

[barkley]

which would you choose for your 11 year old for an overbite (braces will be applied with either option we choose), and why? Will both have essentially the same results on profile after treatment? I'm finding it hard to find reliable sources online, some sites even say that braces "ruin" the profile or that there is some sort of "headgear" effect that causes all sorts of ills (breathing problems, bad profile, longer face) but I don't know if that is junk science or based on any facts. I'd be glad to hear any real life experience with either

if it were my child, based on my own experiences i would take them for a consultation with a maxillofacial surgeon before i made any decision on braces or headgear.

i had an overbite as a kid that was treated with braces. braces did what they are 'supposed to do'-made my teeth nice and uniformly straight and my overbite less apparent over time (and my growth/aging up) but when i was in my late teens i started having episodes of my jaw catching and locking. a consultation with an orthodontist led to a diagnosis of tmj which took me to a maxillofacial surgeon who said it wasn't entirely uncommon for individuals with overbites as kids to have issues with their jaw joints later in life b/c of the pressure of orthodontic devices (which place the priority on the appearance of the teeth vs jaw growth).

in order to prevent further deterioration of my jaw joints i had to have major surgery entailing portions of bone on both sides of my upper jaw removed along with the tooth below each section (i was split from end to end inside my mouth). i was wired shut for 6 weeks. not pleasant but no more lockjaw and no further deterioration. the sad thing is it all could have been avoided with a couple of extractions and much less invasive braces when i was a kid.

 

[pxidst119]

My daughter had the herbst appliance for 18 months. She got it in at 11 years old. She had a good experience with it and it worked really well. Yes it was a lot in her mouth but she got used to it fairly quickly and didn’t have a lisp or talk differently after the first few days. She played sports that required a mouth guard and played her clarinet perfectly fine.

2 of my friends kids also had the herbst both with good experiences. One mom insisted on having the herbst before the braces so it didn’t all go on at once. My daughter got used to braces first and then added the
Herbst.

As a parent I admit that I did freak out when the ortho first showed me the appliance and told me what she needed. I just wanted to skip that part. I was so sad to have to put her thru that. But my daughter did great with it and didn’t complain about it. She is now 15 with a beautiful smile.

 

[kdonnel]

My son had a MARA appliance. He definitely spoke differently for awhile and only chewed with his front teeth. He had the MARA for months prior to braces, then both for a long time, then finally just braces.

He did lose a little weight the first two months of the MARA as he had to learn how to eat again and was afraid to eat many things in public.

He was finally told that should be getting a removal date at his next appointment.

2+ years of metal about to come to an end.

 

[Southernmiss]

OP, I forget that we have an amazing orthodontist with a fabulous reputation that all his patients rave about. And that not all orthodontists are like him.

The orthodontist's practice and bedside manner also make a huge difference.

What do the kids your dd goes to school with say abt their orthodontist? That also could help make the decision.

Our orthodontist is all abt the kids. He sponsors sports teams, hosts free leadership and ACT preparation courses, has the kids read teen motivational books, etc. and offers scholarships to his patients. He is one of a kind. There's coffee, tea, bottled water, juice and cookies for waiting parents and ice cream waiting for kids after braces are tightened.

 

[canadianjovigirl]

My son had the Herbst appliance for a 10mm overbite change and did okay with it. It was a tad tough to get used to as was a lot in the mouth but he continued in band and playing hockey and lacrosse. The worst part was they put it on Dec 21st and he was so upset over Christmas dinner as eating took a bit of time to get used to. My daughter had the Mara and it took her time to figure out how to play her band instrument but she adjusted to it as well.

 

[katie01]

My daughter had a headgear after the herbst and it was far better for her.

She had speech issues as a younger child and the herbst made everything so much worse. They sent us to a special speech therapy person who apparently works with patients who have appliances that affect speech. She did not improve at all and after a year they removed the herbst and we did a headgear. The headgear was so much easier and less invasive I was upset with myself for letting them keep the herbst there for so long.

The headgear took a few nights to get used to it but after that it was so much better! I just asked my daughter what she would say to your daughter who is trying to decide which option to choose. Her response: “Mom, tell her it was terrible! The headgear was so much easier and less painful, I wouldn’t advise anyone to get one if there’s an alternative.” She’s 17 years old now btw and I think she was 13 when she had the herbst.

Thank you for sharing your experience, and please tell your daughter “thank you” also!