Help! Weird grades for my kindergartner!

[CrAzY4DL]

So, both of my daughters go to a Charter School. DD9 has been going since she was 5, we love the school, the teachers, the mandatory Saturday Schools, personalized learning plans, the small class sizes, everything. For grades, they grade by number.
1-Below the grade level standard
2-Approaching the grade level standard
3-Proficient at grade level standard
4-Advanced at grade level standard

DD9 has never received anything below a 3 (haha she got a 2 this year on her penmanship, which is HILARIOUS because I am constantly nagging that you need to be able to fit more than 3 words per line and her teachers totally called her on it!)

Here is my problem-DD5 started school in August and has been doing great. Always understands her homework, is starting to read, picking up math really quickly, teacher is always excited and happy with her work, constantly get notes home every week-excellent reading today or great listening or just general kudos. My 5 year old niece is in same school just a different teacher and their conferences this past week were SOOOO different that I am a little perplexed.
Niece got all 3s and 4s, what I would expect from all 3 of these little eager beaver learners, is on reading level C (yay!) and doing great. Teacher lists to SIL all of the wonderful things that niece is doing well and what needs to be worked on, etc., everything you want and need to hear at an end of trimester conference.
My dd5's conference was just so....weird to me, I guess. First off, teacher says I hope you have questions because I don't have anything negative to say. Huh?! DD5 got all 2's and it totally floored me. I asked why she got all 2's and the teacher says-she knows and understands everything I have taught so far, but because I have XYZ things left to teach her, I can only give her 2's. Also, DD5 is on reading level A. Ok...I understand, everyone learns reading at a different time and pace, not a problem. Then she says EVERYONE in her class on reading level A, except for 6 students who are on AA, which is before A. Wha?!?!? In all of DD9's classes she has been at least 3 levels ahead of the "norm" for her classses and NEVER has an entire class been on the same level at the same time. That is so crazy to me! In the teacher comments section, teacher writes-Jyl has wonderful focus skills. The next trimester will be more difficult to reach all 4s. Umm how can it be MORE difficult for my kid to get 4s???

Am I way off base here? Please help!! I talked with hubby and he was flummoxed as well and wants me to speak with teacher when school resumes December 1st. I REALLY enjoy this teacher and we only have 2 kinder teachers at our school so it's not like I can just switch DD5 to the other class, as niece is in that class and they frown upon relatives being in classes together (for good reason!! these 2 get along 1 day and then argue the next! hahaha)

Thanks in advance for any and all help!! I guess what I am looking for on here is
1. Am I off base here? Unreasonable? I am not a grade hungry parent, don't feel the need to be constantly bragging on my kids. We teach our kids that school is their job and grades are their pay and I would hate for DD5s very first report card, she sees she has done all of this hard work and then gets very little "pay" for it, especially when we sing DD9's praises and accomplishments all these years.
2. If I am not unreasonable, what should I do? If it were your kid, what would you say to teacher?

 

[disykat]

If you like the teacher, I'd try not to sweat the grades too much. However you can certainly ask the teacher for more information about why your child isn't at standard.

Personally, I find it hard to give 4's because you have to "justify" them. (Oops - I just noticed your 4 has a different definition than mine do. My 4's mean succeeding ABOVE grade level.) If you say they are above working above grade level it has to be more than doing well on grade level work. They have to be succeeding at above grade level work. So 4's don't go to my good students, they go to my "above and beyond" students. Since starting this method of grading I have had to do more differentiated instruction for my higher kids - which is a good thing. (I teach music right now and do all large group instruction - which is why this is such a challenge!)

4's can be confusing. A's used to mean doing well at grade level. That is not what 4's mean on our report card. On ours they mean "above grade level standard."

Some teachers don't like to give 3's at the beginning of the year and I'm guessing this is what happened to you. They want it to look like there was growth thoughout the year. I don't agree with this because a 3 at any given time should be based on what you are teaching currently not end of the year expectations, but it is easy to see how some might see it this way. Our 3's are meant to show they are on target at each grading period, not an end of the year standard.

Since the teacher commented about 4's, I'm guessing that was a general comment that showed up on everyone's report cards. That does indicate she gave some 4's to other children, making the 2's more of a concern. I'd try setting a conference to discuss how to get your child up to grade level standards (3) and see where it goes from there.

Even though they set standards for grading, it is so individual depending on the instructor. There are many teachers who still try to translate A,B,C, etc. into 1 -4 and it just doesn't work that way.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Our district uses something similar for academics, but w/o numbers:

M: The student meets expectations by producing work that demonstrates understanding and consistently meets the standard of assigned tasks. The student produces evidence that demonstrates a thorough knowledge of concepts or topics.
A: The student is approaching expectations by nearing or demonstrating partial understanding of concepts and topics.
B: The student is beginning to approach expectations and showing a still limited awareness of understanding regarding concepts and topics. More time and practice is needed to increase student understanding.

Then for something they call "Qualities of the Learner" they use a number system:

3: The student consistently and independently performs at or above grade level expectations.
2: The student sometimes performs near grade level expectations.
1: At this time the student is not yet performing at grade level expectations.

Both appear on the report card in different places.

For the academics they are compared to the state education standards and the specific goals for their grade level. So my dd (now in 2nd grade) may receive a "B" or an "A" in the November report because she didn't meet the standards set for that skill set for her grade level yet...but in April she gets a "M" because she has then met it. Does that make sense?

In the past we've received a grade of A, B, or C based on our work to date...now our kids are being assessed against standards set for their grade levels and if they are achieving those standards.

Did any of that make sense? It is a totally different way to grade. It makes sense to me that a teacher doesn't feel as if any of her students have met any of the educational goals that have been set for them for the year in November.

Our district does have it set up a bit differently though in that they list a set of standards that are met through the year so there are some "M"s on the November report.

Hope that helps a bit?

 

[madmom1030]

Join the club that doesn't understand the new grading scale. Our district switched to this year. I have found it very upsetting. That they no longer grade on what your child knows now but what they are suppose to know by the end of year. If you haven't taught them something how can you grade it. Neither one of my daughters teachers really understand it and since it is no longer based on if they have 90% they have a 4 or if they have a 80% they have 3. My 1st grader received mostly 2 because they started learning stuff but haven't completed learning it so she couldn't give them 3 or 4. My
3rd graders report card was even stranger she received a 4 in subject where she missed several questions on a test. How can they be above grade level when they get things wrong? We were told the district had to change the way is grading because of the wonderful No Child Left Behind Act.

I understand your complaint and I would bring it up with adminstration, we were allowed to fill out a survey after we received our childrens report cards. I just have to wait and see if it gets better.

 

[Minniemouse07]

Join the club that doesn't understand the new grading scale. Our district switched to this year. I have found it very upsetting. That they no longer grade on what your child knows now but what they are suppose to know by the end of year. If you haven't taught them something how can you grade it. Neither one of my daughters teachers really understand it and since it is no longer based on if they have 90% they have a 4 or if they have a 80% they have 3. My 1st grader received mostly 2 because they started learning stuff but haven't completed learning it so she couldn't give them 3 or 4. My
3rd graders report card was even stranger she received a 4 in subject where she missed several questions on a test. How can they be above grade level when they get things wrong? We were told the district had to change the way is grading because of the wonderful No Child Left Behind Act.

FWIW our district started this grading system the year dd started school (she's now in 2nd grade) and there must have been A LOT of in service on it because everyone we've spoken to fully understands the system.

In our experience, dd's report cards have greyed out areas during the first and second trimesters if those educational goals are not introduced yet in the curriculum (ie. If ecosystems aren't studied in science until the third trimester, etc.). BUT, if it is a goal that is worked on all year I fully expect a "grade" reflecting that dd hasn't grasped the concept yet earlier in the year.

Oh... and the above academic levels are just for K. Once the students reach 1st grade they add on an "E" for "The student exceeds expectations by independently investigating concepts or topics beyond the standard. The student produces clear, convincing, and consistent evidence of expanded knowledge or skills."

 

[madmom1030]

FWIW our district started this grading system the year dd started school (she's now in 2nd grade) and there must have been A LOT of in service on it because everyone we've spoken to fully understands the system.

In our experience, dd's report cards have greyed out areas during the first and second trimesters if those educational goals are not introduced yet in the curriculum (ie. If ecosystems aren't studied in science until the third trimester, etc.). BUT, if it is a goal that is worked on all year I fully expect a "grade" reflecting that dd hasn't grasped the concept yet earlier in the year.

Oh... and the above academic levels are just for K. Once the students reach 1st grade they add on an "E" for "The student exceeds expectations by independently investigating concepts or topics beyond the standard. The student produces clear, convincing, and consistent evidence of expanded knowledge or skills."

Our district no longer allows them to leave something blank, they are suppose to work on everything all year long. So they start something and don't finish it so they have to give a 2. I am trying not to stress about the quarter grades and hopefully we will have all 3 and 4 at the end of the year.
It is upsetting because do you want to show a report card 20 years from now to your child with a bunch of 2 on it when you know they were doing just fine.

From my conversations with my teachers at conference, it didn't sound like they got alot of training on the new system.

 

[deedeecee]

I'm an elementary school teacher and our grading system also uses numbers.
It sounds like the teachers at your daughter's school do not use a consistent system for their grades. That's probably the reason why your niece scored 3's and 4's in one class and your daughter scored 2's in another class, even though your niece and daughter are probably very similar in aptitude.
Is it fair? No. The teachers should have consistent grading systems, although at this point in your daughter's schooling, I don't think it matters much. Do you think your daughter's teacher would be receptive to your concerns?
FWIW, I don't think your daughter's teacher should have given her 2's just because the teacher has not taught certain things. In my opinion, the teacher's grade should be based on what she has taught, whatever that is. Why should your daughter be penalized because the teacher has not taught something?

 

[koolaidmoms]

Our charter school also uses the 1,2,3,4 system but they define their numbers as:

1 - does not meeting state and school standards
2 - meets some state and school standards
3 - meets all state and school standards
4- exceeds state and school standards

I would talk to the teacher again. If you can not reach a place where you feel comfortable talk to the principal. Did the teacher test the students individually or just observe them in class for reading? In my DS kindergarten class there is everything from AA to L in reading. I think there may be a few on the same reading level but they are all spread out.

Good Luck!

 

[CrAzY4DL]

I'm an elementary school teacher and our grading system also uses numbers.
It sounds like the teachers at your daughter's school do not use a consistent system for their grades. That's probably the reason why your niece scored 3's and 4's in one class and your daughter scored 2's in another class, even though your niece and daughter are probably very similar in aptitude.
Is it fair? No. The teachers should have consistent grading systems, although at this point in your daughter's schooling, I don't think it matters much. Do you think your daughter's teacher would be receptive to your concerns?
FWIW, I don't think your daughter's teacher should have given her 2's just because the teacher has not taught certain things. In my opinion, the teacher's grade should be based on what she has taught, whatever that is. Why should your daughter be penalized because the teacher has not taught something?

This is my thought exactly! They have used this grading system since DD9 was in kinder and when they come to a subject they haven't started teaching yet, she has received a "/" in it which I am fine with. And yes, I am seeing that the 2 kinder teachers aren't grading the same which to me, isn't fair. I must add, I am so proud of niece for being level C reading tho, yay!!

My MAIN #1 concern is DD5 will have this teacher for 2 years (kinder and then 1st) so are we going to have 2 years of 2's? Hubby wants me to talk to teacher and I agree, I do need to but I am a huge wimp when it comes to speaking my mind in situations like this. I would hate to cause hard feelings when I know we have this whole year AND next to get through.

And also, is it just me or is it weird that 14 kids in the class are in the same level of reading? No one in the class is above A?! I'm just not getting it.

 

[bumbershoot]

I asked why she got all 2's and the teacher says-she knows and understands everything I have taught so far, but because I have XYZ things left to teach her, I can only give her 2's.

That's the craziest thing I've heard of (today). That's like saying "you fail grades 1-11.5 b/c we haven't taught you everything yet". Makes no sense!

If a kid understands all that has been taught in the grade level so far, that kid should get the matching score to "understands what has been taught". You can't grade now based on what's to be taught in the future.

Sounds like a HUGE difference in the way this teacher and niece's teacher are understanding the grading scale.

 

[ajh88]

ACK - double post - sorry!

 

[ajh88]

1. Am I off base here? Unreasonable? I am not a grade hungry parent, don't feel the need to be constantly bragging on my kids. We teach our kids that school is their job and grades are their pay and I would hate for DD5s very first report card, she sees she has done all of this hard work and then gets very little "pay" for it, especially when we sing DD9's praises and accomplishments all these years.
2. If I am not unreasonable, what should I do? If it were your kid, what would you say to teacher?

I don't think you are off base if you don't understand why your DD was given the marks she was given - that is the whole point of parent-teacher conferences and communication - so that you are all on the same page regarding the progress of your child. It sounds from your description of the meeting that your DD's teacher thinks she is doing well and that she has a different philosophy to "grading" her student's than your niece's teacher. That "2" to her is good and the mark that should be expected at this point in the school year. I assume you are free to disagree with this approach, but I'm not sure that you'd be successful in changing her view on the matter.

I don't think I would have concern about your DD thinking her marks are bad - I understand she may be comparing grades with her cousin (or her sister), but the differences may be easily explained by having different teachers. Personally, I would put less focus on the mark itself and more focus on the fact that her teacher says wonderful things about her.

The one thing that would alarm me more than "2" marks would be that all the kids are reading at about the same levels - it just doesn't seem possible that an entire class is at the exact same ability (regardless of whether it is AA or C!) - I might choose to speak with her about that a little more extensively and find out what her criteria are for moving on to the next level for reading.

Good luck - it sounds like your DDs are both doing well. I know it is hard not to get hung up on marks - I worry when my DD gets a SD (still developing) mark, but I've learned not to freak out too much (the ACs - area of concern - still bug me but fortunately those are few and far between!).

I was a student who cried when I thought I was getting any grade below an A and I don't want my DD growing up with that pressure (which was completely self-induced - my parents were proud no matter what!). I want her to learn and grow and find the areas that excite her, but not worry if she isn't perfect at everything. My method of doing that is not to fret over the marks on her report card so much and to try and keep track of things I know she needs to work on (subtraction fact - ugh!). You seem proud as a peach of both of your DD's and I personally think that is more important in the long term than what she may perceive her first report card as in a few years!

 

[CrAzY4DL]

Thanks so much everyone! Now, the hard part-if you talked to teacher, what would you say?

LOL Please please PLEASE help this sissy!

 

[allyphoe]

My MAIN #1 concern is DD5 will have this teacher for 2 years (kinder and then 1st) so are we going to have 2 years of 2's?

I'm not sure why that's such a concern, though. It's not like those mid-year 2s would go on the dreaded permanant record, impair her chances of getting into a good college, or otherwise scar her for life. There's apparently no question that your DD is successfully learning the material, and a squiggle on a piece of paper doesn't change that.

is it just me or is it weird that 14 kids in the class are in the same level of reading?

Assessment ceiling.

I understand your frustration with the system. But I don't see that your DD is being in any way harmed by the teacher's scoring methods.

 

[cigarboo]

Our report cards for K-5 are something similar to that. You get 4's if you are working above grade level(actually switch out of class to go to a higher grade on a subject), 3's if you meet grade level expectation(even if you get 100% on everything) and 2's if you need help. The grading varies a bit by teacher. Some teacher's will give a 3+ to show that a child is doing very well within his/her grade, but others will not. I wouldn't compare the number score from kids of different teachers, because teachers grade differently. In the lower grades it's really not a big deal. The grading system is used mainly to try to identify the kids who are at the very top and at the bottem, who may need intervention. Everyone else who is doing OK in their grade level can just continue on. I think it's more important to focus on what the teacher actually told you rather than the number score. I think if you like the teacher, you should just ask her to clarify why she said 4's will be more difficult next trimester and also what your child needed to have done to earn the 3's. It may be she just gives out 2's at the beginning of the year. Frankly, I'd rather have a lower number at the beginning of the year and work up to the higher number. It bugs me more to see my kid go from a 3 to a 2 as the year goes on.

From my understanding, our district moved to this kind of grading because they wanted to be able to indentify the kids that are beyond the norm, whether it was above or below the "norm." For example, when they used the old ABC grading system, there were alot of kids who got A's... but it was difficult to differentiate between a kid that got A's because he was doing a bunch of extra credit and studying/preparing versus a kid who truely needed a higher level of work. From a district point of view, they needed to identify the child that is, for example, ready to do 1,2 or a few grades above his/her current level. In our district we had lots of problems with parents calling teachers everytime their kid got an 88% or something, always asking to see what extra things their kids could do to get a higher grade, so they end up with A's on their report cards. Another thing is parents working on their kid's projects. The second grader who brings in some project that obviously, they did not do. Mom and dad works on the project to get little Johnny an "A". We had lots of kids that got "all A's" but did poorly on standardized tests and more serious for the district is that we had kid's getting by with D's, but actually doing a lot worse. It's not good to graduate a kid who can hardly read/write. It's a bit hard to understand why some districts move to report cards like this and we had lots of parents who were very upset. The nice thing is that I don't sweat about grades anymore. My child always get's marked 10% off because he forgets to write his name on papers or spazzes out on an occasional test, but the teacher knows that he knows his stuff. He gets a 3 whether he got 90% or 100% in the subject. I know how my kid is doing by the work he brings home. The grading system is pretty weird but after a while, you get used to it. We go back to letter grades and grade points in the higher grades.

 

[CrAzY4DL]

I certainly hope the reading thing isn't a ceiling type of situation! Our school prides itself on it's personal learning plans and is the #1 reason our children go there. Personal learning plans have eliminated the need for children to be held back and skipped ahead a few grades. DD9 has always been 2-3 grade levels ahead in reading and 1-2 ahead in math and because all 20 kids in her class get their own personal individualized work, we didn't even have to think about whether or not to skip her ahead.

As for why I am concerned about the 2's is because 1. it is on her permanent record, all 3 trimester grades go on one report card at the end of the year and 2. if she is being marked down for work she hasn't been taught yet, that's not right or fair. In my mind I still change the grades from numbers to letters so to get a report card that is ALL C's, you wouldn't be concerned? Especially when the teacher is telling you your kid is right on track, ahead of the curve, cooperative learner, good listener, etc.? It just feels like mixed signals (outstanding reviews with less than great grades) and unfair. Bah!

PS-still curious what anyone would say, if anything, to teacher. at the very least, i want to make sure i understand her personal grading system 100%.

 

[cigarboo]

As for why I am concerned about the 2's is because 1. it is on her permanent record, all 3 trimester grades go on one report card at the end of the year and 2. if she is being marked down for work she hasn't been taught yet, that's not right or fair. In my mind I still change the grades from numbers to letters so to get a report card that is ALL C's, you wouldn't be concerned? Especially when the teacher is telling you your kid is right on track, ahead of the curve, cooperative learner, good listener, etc.?

I think you should talk to the teacher if you don't like or don't understand the way she grades. It sounds like your DD is doing fine. The number is just how her teacher grades. For a different teacher, the same ability might have been a 3. The numbers are not suppose to correspond to a letter grade. Is your child super strong in any particular subject? I'm only asking to see if the teacher gave her a 2 in that subject as well. Also, are other kids with the same teacher getting 3's? If so, I would question the teacher to see what things you can do to help sharpen DD's skills. I think as the year goes on she will get more 3's. I wouldn't get so hung up on the numbers. Colleges are not going to look at grade school grades for college entry. As long as the teacher is teaching her at a proper level and that your DD is improving in all subjects. When I say improving, I don't mean moving from "c" level of work to "b." I mean is she reading with picture clues or with more fluency, etc. as time goes by.

Our report card also comes with a continuum bar for each subject. On one end knowing the very basic(preschool type stuff) and the other end is the goal at the end of 2nd grade, with little descriptions of skill levels in between. The teacher makes an x on the bar to tell us where we're trying to get to by the end of Kindergarten. As time goes by, with each report card, we see where our child is moving, hopefully in the right direction. So improving is not that they were not doing well before, but rather that they are getting closer to the goal. Best thing though is to talk to the teacher to get a better understanding of her grading and what it actually means as far as teaching your child goes. Good luck.

 

[koolaidmoms]

Thanks so much everyone! Now, the hard part-if you talked to teacher, what would you say?

LOL Please please PLEASE help this sissy!

I would ask her to clarify some things:

1. How are students reading abilities assessed. Are they done individually? As a group? Who completes this assessment? Can you see your child's scores and any information gathered during this test time? When will students reading ability be assessed again?

2. How did she arrive at all 2's for your child? Why is information not yet covered counting in the grade your child receives?

For the principal - How is the grading scale being used across the school. Is there any checks to see that all teachers are using the same scales within the same grade. ie. Jimmy gets all 3s and 4s in second grade - Mr. Smith's class. If Jimmy were in Ms. Johnson's class would he still receive 3s and 4s or 2s and 3s? No you are not "grade hungry" but children know what the grades mean. My son can tell you whether he is doing well or not.

Talk to the teacher. It really is the best place to start.

Good Luck!

 

[brymolmom]

I had similar concerns for my ds last year in Kindergarten - we are graded similarly. I have some teacher friends and they explained it this way. Basically - for reading for example - in our school they hope to have them at level 6 by the END of Kindergarten. So in the 2nd marking period, when he was already at a 5 and by far the most advanced reader in the class - I was very suprised that he got a 3 instead of a 4 on his report card. I was told that they look at the year as a whole - not just the current marking period. So, basically, he COULDN'T receive a 4 until he had reached the level for the END of the year - so until he was a 6 or beyond (he ended the year at level 14 and did get a '4' on the final marking period).

Anyway - it made more sense to me when they explained it this way. That is not to say in any way that I AGREE with it, but at least it made more sense to me. I've gotten used to it now. Still don't agree wholly with it....

 

[rt2dz]

I haven't read beyond the first post, but...

When DS7 was in K he had a teacher who would tell me how great he is, one of the best in the class (behavior), a very mature kid, so polite, and so on and so forth. Then all his conduct grades were S (U= unsatisfactory, S=Satisfactory, E=Excellent). Nothing was excellent in her eyes. She was a tough teacher. EVEN THOUGH he never misbehaved in any way, shape or manner (from her mouth)! So, what constitutes an E?

Of course, this turned out to be a symptom of a much bigger problem (which is a whole ‘nother post) and we ended up switching K teachers. Second K teacher gave him all E's despite his being a little talkative in her class ; the first teacher didn't allow talking so DS followed the rules and *still* couldn’t please her. Turned out all his academic grades went way up too with the switch of K teachers. The second K teacher couldn’t understand how his grades were so low. And it wasn’t that the second K teacher had low standards or was lax, I think she was just more experienced with kids and realistic.

The problem is grading is rather subjective to a certain point. Some teachers’ standards are soooo high, no one can meet them. Some teachers really require a ton more. When it becomes simply this is right and this is wrong, I think you find a little more evening of real skills and the grades.