Help! Points sxpiring and assesing options!

[bricgray]

Greetings fellow Disney nuts,

Just found out due to scheduling that we have 174 pts expiring December 1st.

We were going to try to rent out the points, but availability is so limited I think they will be hard to rent (even cheap).

DVC recommended trading into RCI (even though value is weaker) because it would give us 2 years to use from time of transfer..

Thoughts? Ideas?

Can't lose the points so need to act soon.

Brian

 

[Judyat]

I have put points in RCI in the past when I didn't know what else to do with them. It does give you 2 years to look for something with RCI so that takes some of the pressure off.

 

[Dean]

Greetings fellow Disney nuts,

Just found out due to scheduling that we have 174 pts expiring December 1st.

We were going to try to rent out the points, but availability is so limited I think they will be hard to rent (even cheap).

DVC recommended trading into RCI (even though value is weaker) because it would give us 2 years to use from time of transfer..

Thoughts? Ideas?

Can't lose the points so need to act soon.

Brian

I'd either rent them out by securing a reservation that uses them or most of them OR ask for a one time exception to bank them.

 

[fromscratchmom]

Not being an owner yet, I can't say exactly how where and when a reservation could made that would work to spend them, but maybe if you are renting them cheap it will allow someone a trip whose willing to do a split stay. Or maybe you'll find a solid week long booking that uses most of them. Just by the points charts, looks like standard view BWV one bedroom for one week comes in under as does value one bedroom at AKV. Is therental points market skewed morein any partuclar direction, i wonder. Shorter stays would fit at BLT OR WLV. If it were OK to solicit you renting them to me I'd probably be downstairs trying to talk hubby into a rent-them-cheap deal. Lol. Guess I'll stay home this fall and budget in stuff for my kids and my first expected grandchild instead.

 

[JimMIA]

For 174 points, I would certainly consider the "super-secret one time exception" Dean mentioned. That would allow you to bank the points and use them next year, and that has to be your best option.

I think you are partially right about availability for rental purposes. Certainly from Thanksgiving week to New Years would be difficult. September - early November might be possible.

For RCI, I think you need to look at two things to assess the viability of that option:

• First, check the RCI point requirements and see what 174 points will buy you for various size units in different seasons. If you really NEED a 2 BR, your options may be very limited. If you're fine with a 1 BR, obviously that's better.
• Second, you need to adjust your expectations -- or at least reevaluate them. You are not likely to get the same quality accommodations as you would have at DVC. That's not universally true, but don't EXPECT it. On the plus side, you might be able to get a week's stay somewhere you really want to go. So there is a tradeoff, and location (for YOUR family) might offset any downgrade you took in accommodations.

All that said, IMHO the one-time exception is probably the best avenue.

 

[JimMIA]

I want to say a word about the "value" question of RCI exchanges in the context you face -- losing the points.

We often hear (and I have often posted) that DVC/RCI yields "lesser value" than use of the points at a DVC resort. That is both true...and a blinding flash of the obvious.

We also say not to even think of buying DVC to use with any frequency for RCI exchanges. Buying DVC with that as a rationale is just stupid. If you want to buy something to exchange via RCI there are tons of much cheaper alternatives. DVC is possibly the most expensive way to exchange via RCI.

But a DVC owner facing expiring points is not really looking to maximize "value." They're facing the LOSS of the points entirely, so now the "value" equation changes drastically. Doing ANYthing with the points is better than losing the points! (Unless, of course, it costs more than a straight cash rental.)

To me, using RCI rather than LOSING the points is about the only situation I'd do DVC/RCI.

But if you're staring losing the points in the face, RCI is a very viable alternative...IMHO.

 

[agie65]

I want to say a word about the "value" question of RCI exchanges in the context you face -- losing the points.

We often hear (and I have often posted) that DVC/RCI yields "lesser value" than use of the points at a DVC resort. That is both true...and a blinding flash of the obvious.

We also say not to even think of buying DVC to use with any frequency for RCI exchanges. Buying DVC with that as a rationale is just stupid. If you want to buy something to exchange via RCI there are tons of much cheaper alternatives. DVC is possibly the most expensive way to exchange via RCI.

But a DVC owner facing expiring points is not really looking to maximize "value." They're facing the LOSS of the points entirely, so now the "value" equation changes drastically. Doing ANYthing with the points is better than losing the points! (Unless, of course, it costs more than a straight cash rental.)

To me, using RCI rather than LOSING the points is about the only situation I'd do DVC/RCI.

But if you're staring losing the points in the face, RCI is a very viable alternative...IMHO.

Agree with that. First you should try one time exception as mentioned before.

 

[Dean]

I want to say a word about the "value" question of RCI exchanges in the context you face -- losing the points.

We often hear (and I have often posted) that DVC/RCI yields "lesser value" than use of the points at a DVC resort. That is both true...and a blinding flash of the obvious.

We also say not to even think of buying DVC to use with any frequency for RCI exchanges. Buying DVC with that as a rationale is just stupid. If you want to buy something to exchange via RCI there are tons of much cheaper alternatives. DVC is possibly the most expensive way to exchange via RCI.

But a DVC owner facing expiring points is not really looking to maximize "value." They're facing the LOSS of the points entirely, so now the "value" equation changes drastically. Doing ANYthing with the points is better than losing the points! (Unless, of course, it costs more than a straight cash rental.)

To me, using RCI rather than LOSING the points is about the only situation I'd do DVC/RCI.

But if you're staring losing the points in the face, RCI is a very viable alternative...IMHO.

No doubt. I'd add that if one does decide to deposit I'd likely deposit 150 points (new HIGH season for RCI red 1 BR). I'd also make sure I knew what I was getting in to AND put in an ongoing exchange request almost immediately. Travel would have to be completed by 31 Dec, 2015. I'd also make sure the deposit was 45 days or more from the check in day and given the days would have to finish by 1 Dec check out, that doesn't give a lot of time.

 

[JimMIA]

Travel would have to be completed by 31 Dec, 2015.

Having never used DVC to exchange OUT, you lost me here. Don't the points get extended TWO years from deposit?

I'd also make sure the deposit was 45 days or more from the check in day and given the days would have to finish by 1 Dec check out, that doesn't give a lot of time.

I think OP has to deposit prior to 11/30 this year in any event -- unless I misunderstood, that's the expiration date of their points.

 

[Dean]

Having never used DVC to exchange OUT, you lost me here. Don't the points get extended TWO years from deposit? I think OP has to deposit prior to 11/30 this year in any event -- unless I misunderstood, that's the expiration date of their points.

Not as I read it for deposit first, you'd have to check in by 31 Dec of the next year. How would you interpret this requirement under deposit first of the RCI exchange rules.

An exchange may be requested for the same time period or for a time period that has a comparable exchange value as the Vacation Time deposited. (See Paragraph 9 under Exchange Procedures and Priorities.) The exchange request may be placed at the same time that the Vacation Time is deposited or at any time thereafter, but no later than the end of second calendar year after the date of the deposited Vacation Time.

You also lose the ability to extend compared to regular RCI members. One change of note which is really an increase in cost compared to several years ago is that any red time is now HIGH time where with II it was only bright red and all white time is MID season. This offsets the minor decrease in points requirements, is likely the reason for it and is likely a wash overall but a slight decrease for the items most likely to be a true value if one can get them.

As for the deposit, they have to deposit a unit that finishes by 1 Dec (start of day 30 Nov) with the usual requirement to do F-S, that means check in 23 Nov is likely to be the latest deposit that'll work. Technically there also have to be a unit available that can be deposited. Since DVC doesn't do developer deposits, they don't have things in RCI already that can be reassigned to the member in all likelihood. You also want to deposit 45 days out to have a truly functional deposit. I suggested considering 150 since that's the number required for red time (HIGH season) 1 BR. IF I were going to use this option I'd put in a number of requests that work ASAP. I think you can have as many as 48 listings on the regular RCI side, I'd assume it's the same through RCI. A listing could be the same resort for 48 different times or 48 resorts. It is my understanding that the same resort for consecutive days counts as one listing.

 

[JimMIA]

Not as I read it for deposit first, you'd have to check in by 31 Dec of the next year. How would you interpret this requirement under deposit first of the RCI exchange rules.

Not sure; that's why I asked.

An exchange may be requested for the same time period or for a time period that has a comparable exchange value as the Vacation Time deposited. (See Paragraph 9 under Exchange Procedures and Priorities.) The exchange request may be placed at the same time that the Vacation Time is deposited or at any time thereafter, but no later than the end of second calendar year after the date of the deposited Vacation Time.

Is that from RCI regs or from DVC?

I see what you are saying -- the end of the first year in this scenario would be 12/31/2014 and the second would be 12/31/2015.

If that quote is from the DVC regs, that is very different from regular RCI deposits, no? Normally, it's the end of the month two years after the date of the deposit. So if I deposited Wyndham points on 11/15/2014, I'd have until 11/30/2016 to use them regardless of UY.

I think this has been discussed previously, and that you're correct. I doubt seriously if DVC owners understand what an awful deal that is for them.

In OP's particular case, they are losing 11 months compared to what I would get with Wyndham -- but if someone deposited in January 2015, they'd get two full years. Makes no sense. I hope it's just some sloppy wording on the DVC website, not the real deal...because that deal stinks.

If your interpretation is correct -- and I'm afraid it is -- DVC owners should raise that issue at the Annual meeting and ask that it be changed.

 

[Dean]

Not sure; that's why I asked. Is that from RCI regs or from DVC?

I see what you are saying -- the end of the first year in this scenario would be 12/31/2014 and the second would be 12/31/2015.

If that quote is from the DVC regs, that is very different from regular RCI deposits, no? Normally, it's the end of the month two years after the date of the deposit. So if I deposited Wyndham points on 11/15/2014, I'd have until 11/30/2016 to use them regardless of UY.

I think this has been discussed previously, and that you're correct. I doubt seriously if DVC owners understand what an awful deal that is for them.

In OP's particular case, they are losing 11 months compared to what I would get with Wyndham -- but if someone deposited in January 2015, they'd get two full years. Makes no sense. I hope it's just some sloppy wording on the DVC website, not the real deal...because that deal stinks.

If your interpretation is correct -- and I'm afraid it is -- DVC owners should raise that issue at the Annual meeting and ask that it be changed.

I didn't mean for it to come across snarky, I apologize if it did. That quote is #3 of the Deposit first section from DVC's "RCI Disclosure Guide". While it is different, DVC is a hybrid product sitting somewhere between RCI weeks and RCI points. It's also different than it was in II. I doubt it could be changed until the contract is up for renewal with RCI. I don't see much emphasis to change it though. Here is the title page info on the Disclosure Guide.

RCI DISCLOSURE GUIDE
DISNEY VACATION CLUB® MEMBER GETAWAYS
DISCLOSURE GUIDE TO THE RCI EXCHANGE PROGRAMS
Available from Disney Vacation Club Management Corp., through corporate participation in the RCI
Exchange Programs.
This publication contains important information that explains the terms, conditions and use by Disney
Vacation Club Members of the RCI Exchange Program operated by RCI, LLC and sets forth the RCI
Member Resorts participating in such exchange programs. You should read this document prior to your
purchase of an Ownership Interest.
Unless otherwise stated, the information contained in this publication is correct as of January 1, 2014.

 

[bricgray]

Update:

Had a call with DVC supervisor just now, easily one of the worst calls I have ever had with any business, nevermind its the company that tells me to "Welcome Home"...

She basically told us "sorry, tough luck". We mentioned the DIS boards as a resource for sharing her less than acceptable bedside manner and she basically DENOUNCED THE SITE as if I told her her child were ugly!

I explained that this is where a great many of their most loyal and valued customers reside online and she basically said in so many words that they/DISNEY didnt care.

As a loyal Disney customer who has spent more money there than some people make in a lifetime, I am appalled to the point of wanting to cancel the trip I do have scheduled for Christmas and find another destination out of anger.

Please talk me off the ledge. I love Disney, but todays call soured me pretty bad.

Brian

 

[Dean]

Update:

Had a call with DVC supervisor just now, easily one of the worst calls I have ever had with any business, nevermind its the company that tells me to "Welcome Home"...

She basically told us "sorry, tough luck". We mentioned the DIS boards as a resource for sharing her less than acceptable bedside manner and she basically DENOUNCED THE SITE as if I told her her child were ugly!

I explained that this is where a great many of their most loyal and valued customers reside online and she basically said in so many words that they/DISNEY didnt care.

As a loyal Disney customer who has spent more money there than some people make in a lifetime, I am appalled to the point of wanting to cancel the trip I do have scheduled for Christmas and find another destination out of anger.

Please talk me off the ledge. I love Disney, but todays call soured me pretty bad.

Brian

First, don't let emotions cause you to make it worse. You've just learned that DVC is just another timeshare, likely better than your experience today and worse than many here think. Tell us about specifics. Did you specifically asked for the one time exception and if so and it was denied, have you used it before possibly unknowingly? After that I'd get a reservation and try to rent it or explore the deposit first option with RCI. If so I'd suggest you call and spend some time talking to the DVC exchange department. There has been one report of being able to deposit and use the deposit in smaller chunks through the RCI points resorts. If you do, I'd suggest you set up request first right away for a workable 1 BR for as many options as possible. Lastly, if you are truly disgusted once the emotions subside, you may want to consider selling and moving on.

 

[JimMIA]

I didn't mean for it to come across snarky, I apologize if it did.

NO, I didn't take it as snarky at all.

That quote is #3 of the Deposit first section from DVC's "RCI Disclosure Guide". ... I doubt it could be changed until the contract is up for renewal with RCI. I don't see much emphasis to change it though.

In that case, I guess the best we can hope for is that it's sloppy wording, and the reality willl be different from that description.

That wording creates very different treatment of DVC members than owners of other timeshares affiliated with RCI -- who get two full years, period. Now I fully realize that DVC/RCI is not the same as a full regular RCI membership through another system...but still.

Worse than the second-class treatment of all DVC owners, it creates grossly different treatment of DVC owners who have UYs in the latter part of the calendar year. One DVC owner who makes an RCI deposit in January would get almost two full years to use their RCI deposit. Another DVC owner, depositing in November, would have only 13 months.

That's grossly unfair, and I doubt it's what anyone intended. Why would DVC set up a system which treats one group of owners differently from another group?

I really think someone should bring it up at the annual meeting, because I think it's a correctable mistake.

 

[JimMIA]

We mentioned the DIS boards as a resource for sharing her less than acceptable bedside manner and she basically DENOUNCED THE SITE as if I told her her child were ugly!

I explained that this is where a great many of their most loyal and valued customers reside online and she basically said in so many words that they/DISNEY didnt care.

Nor do we care what she thinks about the DIS, although I think you'll find most DVC MS folks understand and like the DIS.

Just as a side note, I think I know that lady and her children ARE truly ugly if that makes you feel any better.

Please talk me off the ledge. I love Disney, but todays call soured me pretty bad.

Well, first of all, take a deep breath and don't compound the problem by making a silly decision like canceling your family's Christmas vacation.

Second -- remember the cardinal rule of dealing with MS. If you don't like the first answer, call back tomorrow! They can tell you "no" 20 times -- but you only have to get a "yes" once to win!

 

[JimMIA]

Tell us about specifics. Did you specifically asked for the one time exception and if so and it was denied, have you used it before possibly unknowingly?

Agree. What, specifically, did you ask for?

Also understand that the "super-secret one-time exception" is just that -- they make an EXCEPTION to their banking rules. It's not something they have to do, not something we are entitled to.

And seriously, call back tomorrow, be nice, and don't even mention the call today.

 

[Dean]

NO, I didn't take it as snarky at all. In that case, I guess the best we can hope for is that it's sloppy wording, and the reality willl be different from that description.

That wording creates very different treatment of DVC members than owners of other timeshares affiliated with RCI -- who get two full years, period. Now I fully realize that DVC/RCI is not the same as a full regular RCI membership through another system...but still.

Worse than the second-class treatment of all DVC owners, it creates grossly different treatment of DVC owners who have UYs in the latter part of the calendar year. One DVC owner who makes an RCI deposit in January would get almost two full years to use their RCI deposit. Another DVC owner, depositing in November, would have only 13 months.

That's grossly unfair, and I doubt it's what anyone intended. Why would DVC set up a system which treats one group of owners differently from another group?

I really think someone should bring it up at the annual meeting, because I think it's a correctable mistake.

Thanks. As for the timing options, 31 December is consistent with other dates in the document as illustrated by the cancellation info.

45 or more days before the check-in date, the full number of Vacation Points used for the
reservation is returned into the Member’s RCI account. The DVC Member may request
additional RCI exchanges, but the check-in date must occur by December 31st of the next
year and an additional non-refundable $95 transaction fee must be paid.
b. Less than 45 days but more than 6 days before the check-in date, the full number of

Reading the 2 together and timing the exchange and cancelation, I'm thinking one could extend an additional year by investing the $95 exchange fee into the process.

 

[JimMIA]

Thanks. As for the timing options, 31 December is consistent with other dates in the document as illustrated by the cancellation info.
Reading the 2 together and timing the exchange and cancelation, I'm thinking one could extend an additional year by investing the $95 exchange fee into the process.

I started another thread on the question of points expiration in RCI. Hopefully, we can get some owners with points already deposited into RCI to go check their actual deposit and expiration dates and see if there is a real problem.