Help Me with a Teacher E-mail/ CAPD info

[Dancind]

Comments, please! I had a call from my daughter's 7th grade science teacher yesterday to let me know that my DD had been kicked out of the classroom for using profanity. She said "Oh my gaw". This is the third time that my kid has been kicked out that I know of, twice for disruption and this. The last time it was because she was laughing so hard at something a boy said that she fell out of her chair. I kind of agreed with that one, even though DD swears she couldn't help it. The thing that's really bothering me is that it was about 25 degrees outside yesterday where she had to sit.

Here's the thing. I don't want to get on this teacher's bad side, but I do want her to know that we don't agree with this disciplinary action. This class is a special Gifted science class, very hard to get into, and our DD is supposed to be in it next year too (same teacher). My draft is below, please tell me what you think. I know this isn't earth shattering stuff, but I'm not sure how to handle this. Thanks! Diana

"Mrs. R, I want you to know that I spoke to A last night about our conversation. My "official position" to her is that her pet phrase is offensive to you, and she needs to try very hard to stop saying it altogether, so that she won't say it in your classroom. Now I need to remind you that she has ADD. An element of ADD is impulsivity, which makes it much harder for her to break a habit than most kids. I hope she won't say it again, but I wouldn't be surprised. I just hope you will remember that she isn't doing it to deliberately offend you.

Now for our "unofficial" position. We do not consider "gaw" a profanity, and I can't believe APS does either. She doesn't say "God" because I made sure she didn't when she was younger. Even if she DID, that is still not a profanity to most of the world, as you know. So we need to respectfully request that if you feel the need to discipline her for this again, that you not send her outside to stand in the cold. Instead, please send her to the Principal's office, and call us immediately.

As I said, I agree that you are entitled to respect in your classroom. We certainly don't want to jeopardize A's relationship with you, and her place in the Gifted Science program. But we also don't want our daughter taught that she is a discipline problem over this matter. It doesn't take much for a child to internalize that message and actually become a discipline problem. Thank you, and please call me if you'd like to discuss this further."

 

[Boo'sMom]

It's well written, and your points well made.

Hope it all works out for you and your DD

 

[karebear1]

I think your response is wonderful! It's not offensive at all and gives the teacher the idea that you are supporting her in her discipline- but still getting your idea across about your daughters ADD and another appropriate consequence for her behavior. You're a good mom! It's so hard to balance our ideas of our children with what others percieve- but it looks to me like you have a good grasp of the reality of the situation - that is that you love your daaughter, but also realize she can be a problem sometimes. A lot of parents have their eyes closed to any wrong doing their kids might be involved in. Kudos to you !

 

[TimeforMe]

I think it's an excellent letter--very well written without being confrontational. Do you know for sure that the "profanity" she used was "oh my gaw"? I would make sure that is the case and if it is, I don't really see why that's so offensive, but she is the teacher

I don't understand why she made your DD stand out in the cold. I would actually speak to the principal about this. That's a bit extreme, IMO. Since this has happened a few times before as well, I would probably request a meeting to talk face to face. Good luck and keep is posted!

 

[CEDmom]

I made a few edits to your e-mail. It came off as a little defensive and accusatory which I'm sure you didn't intend to do.


"Mrs. R, I want you to know that I spoke to A last night about our conversation. We discussed how her pet phrase may be offensive to some people, and she needs to try very hard to stop saying it altogether. She has agreed to work very hard on this and assures me she doesn't mean to offend anyone when she says it. As you may know her ADD sometimes causes impulsiveness. However, she and I hope that this type of incident won't happen again.

We understand that you expect your students to respect you in the classroom and at times need to use discplinary measures to maintain that respect. We support your need to do this however, in the future, we request that you do not send A outside to stand in the cold but rather to the Principal's office.

A is enjoying your class and learning a great deal. We hope she has continued success in the Gifted Science program. Thank you, and please call me if you'd like to discuss this further."

 

[Mishetta]

I liked your letter, until I read CEDMom's letter. I prefer hers (no disrespect intended.)

Anyway, since when is "GOD" considered "profanity?" If in fact she did say "GAW" then this whole punishment thing is absolutely ridiculous & I'd look into if this teacher doesn't have some sort of "thing" against your DD!

I would DEFINITELY bring it to the Principals's attention that your child was put out in 25 degree weather! I am just in shock to have read that!! That is not appropriate "punishment" for anything she could have done!! Something just doesn't sound right here to me.

Good Luck!

 

[Bojangles]

I like the one CEDmom wrote.

 

[disykat]

I like CEDmom's version of your letter. I would leave out the "we don't consider Gaw profanity" part. A student could use the same argument for "fruck you" or "Bish". (sorry to be crass, just trying to illustrate how changing a letter doesn't neccesarily change the intent IMO!)

 

[kpgclark]

I'm especially sensitive to this issue. When I was in brownies I had to sit under a tree for an hour or two after saying "Oh my God" in response to something (which I can't remember.) There was no rule in our troop about not using that phrase by the way. My mother was livid about this punishment and ended up pulling me out of brownies. To this day I don't find that phrase offensive and lots of people use it. I do understand that some people find it offensive though and if anyone asked me not to use it I wouldn't just to be polite.

I think that having your daughter sit out in the cold is outrageous! How long was she out there? If she said "Oh my gaw or God" in the middle of the class where it was very disruptive then I think the teacher should have just regained control of the class and gone on with things, reminding the class that outbursts are not the kind of behavior that is acceptable. If it has been a recurring problem- a pattern of classroom disruption, then maybe she should have been asked to stand outside the room for a bit. Certainly not outside though.

 

[RitaZ.]

Did the teacher leave a message or did you speak with her when she called?

My opinion...

Personally, I would not respond with an email to a call from the teacher. I would return the call and discuss what happened and your point of view, etc.

Good luck!

 

[Dancind]

I did speak to the teacher when she called. She started by saying that she had to remove DD from the classroom for using profanity. By then, I was in shock. She went on to tell me what the phrase was, and telling me that the school system has "zero tolerance" for profanity. I guess the interpretation of profanity is up to the teacher. Anyway, I promised to deal with it, which I did. My DH was appalled when I told him about it, and I feel I should let the teacher know that we don't agree with this somehow, before escalating it. But I do like CEDmom's letter. I just don't think it gets across my feelings on the matter. I don't really want to go "over her head", but I do want to let her know that we will take it to the next level. And I should call her back, but I'm one of those Moms that gets a little emotional about their kids, and I can't be positive that I would express myself well without being offensive. I think I will add the part about calling us if she is sent to the Principal to CEDmom's version, and hope that doesn't happen!

 

[RitaZ.]

And I should call her back, but I'm one of those Moms that gets a little emotional about their kids, and I can't be positive that I would express myself well without being offensive.

I totally understand what you're saying. I'll send you a pm.

 

[Bojangles]

Originally posted by Dancind
She went on to tell me what the phrase was, and telling me that the school system has "zero tolerance" for profanity. I guess the interpretation of profanity is up to the teacher.

Was she warned not to say that particular pharase in class on other occasions? If she was warned and continued the behavior I can see why her teacher would be upset. Is there any way you could set up a face to face meeting to try to sort things out? I am concerned that if you get too defensive and start "threatening action" they may tell you that your child has in fact been too disruptive and move her into a non-gifted class. Try to be receptive and work things out together with the teacher rather than being confrontational.

 

[Dancind]

Bojangles, do you know any kids with ADD? You can't tell them once to stop a behavior and expect it to happen, it takes a lot of reinforcement. Yes, the teacher got "very mad" (DD's words) once before when she said this. I'm not "threatening action", I'm just very worried that if she does it again, things will quickly escalate. And she might do it again. I'm actually going to tallk to the Principal about this, I've decided. I'm going to ask that he not speak to the teacher about it, but if my DD gets dragged to his office by the ear, that he call us before he takes any action. The counselor suggested that I talk to the Principal. She also seemed to think that sending a student outside to stand in the cold was unusual. I sent CEDmom's e-mail already, I'll let you all know if I hear anything else. Diana

 

[bananiem]

I really shouldn't open threads about teachers...
Anyway, I also like CED's email better. In yours it comes across as using her ADD as an excuse. Kids with ADD should have to take the consequence for their actions just like any other kids would be expected to.
As for each teacher deciding what profanity is to each classroom...Well, your beef shouldn't be with the teacher. It should be with whoever wrote that rule without any parameters!!
As for the "gaw". My parents never allowed that growing up. They allowed "gosh" but that was it. Anything else was just a shortened version of taking the Lord's name in vain. My MIL didn't even let her boys say "Jeez" because in her eyes it was a shortened version of Jesus.
As for being an emotional Mom... I should tell you about the time I reamed out the WalMart guy because they sold the last swingset I had already purchased for my kids before I could come pick it up! They drove an hour that night to dismantle one at another Walmart and put it up for us free of charge at 10:00 at night. I did write a letter saying how great they were but at the time I was so mad! My dh told the people he works with that I'm a nice person with a level head, until you mess with my kids. Then I turn into a mother bear!
OK, now I'm donning the flame resistant suit...

 

[bananiem]

I forgot to add that sending a kid out into 25 degree weather was a bit extreme. Is it one of those schools where the classroom doors all open to the outside? Seems like they need a better place to be able to send kids. Some principals don't deal with disruptive kids so maybe the office doesn't do any good. The principal where my sister student taught used to make the kids sit in his office for awhile and then gave them a lollipop when they left!!

 

[Dancind]

NO flames here, Bananaem! Don't mess with the kid! It's funny how grown, intelligent women can turn into complete raging maniacs when someone does. I never use her ADD as an excuse, honest. But this class has a lot of group work situations, and she gets very excited, and LOUD! I don't know what to do about it. She's a triple whammy kid, gifted, ADD, LD. She gets no accommodations for any of it, except the gifted classes. Sometimes I just feel like screaming, give her a break! Besides being "weird", she has to try three times as hard to keep things together. As my DH would say "weh". Or maybe it's "wah". Diana

 

[bananiem]

Thanks for not flaming me!! I was a little nervous to post my reply. It's hard to get your meaning across when the other person can't see your facial expressions and tone of voice.
I used to work with 4 & 5 olds at a child care center and dealt with a many "newly-diagnosed" ADD and ADHD kids. I hear what you're saying. SOmetimes even when they make great progress they still aren't given a break.

 

[Dancind]

And for the record, I have never allowed DD to use ADD as an excuse for herself. As far as she knows, we back her teachers up, and she has to take the consequences for her actions. She won't know anything about any conversations with the Principal, etc. And we don't discuss it in front of her. There was an exception to this, in 1st grade she had a teacher that was extremely verbally abusive. After I learned about a horrific incident involving my daughter, from another parent, we met with the Principal and got her moved. I then explained to her that it was not OK for a teacher or any adult to scream at her like that, and if it ever happened again, she needed to tell us. It's always a fine line when you need to advocate for your kids, and you always wonder if you're doing the right thing. Diana

 

[Kallison]

If she has all three of those things she should have an IEP and have accomodations made.