Help me decide on DVC or not - convince me!

[Dean]

what kind of rate are these non-dvc members getting for this available room? last summer we called ahead to hilton head to arrive early and were quoted $480 per night for an available two br villa. our dues for our 400 points for the year were about $1800, we used points to stay 5 nights, which by my non professional accountant reckoning comes to over $2400. we still had enough points left to stay five nights in dec at both the bcv and bwv in a two br.

In my case it's usually been a relatively small fraction of the cost. We've had 5 units at DVC in less than 2 years not using points and the total cost including indirect costs was around $2500, most of which I'd have paid whether I stayed at DVC or not. It would have been 993 points had these been points stays.

It is my opinion that DVC is a luxury purchase and as such should be made responsibly. It is not a right to go on vacation and not reasonable to mortgage one's future to do so, not to mention all the other costs associated with a Disney stay. Other than the situation where one has a chunk of money coming that's guaranteed but not here yet, I can't think of another circumstance where I feel it's reasonable to finance, others will have to make their own decision. Same could be said for vehicles in most situations but I suspect many DVC owners that financed are sitting there upside down with car loans as well.

As for DVC being reasonable to own in general or "paying for itself", it depends on how you'd use it and where you'd stay if you went to Disney without owning DVC. It is my opinion that most people are overly optimistic on the savings and return of investment. Certainly comparing to rack rates only makes sense if you would have paid those prices other than as a way to con oneself. The only situation where it's easy to justify the cost simply from a $$ standpoint is for studios S-F or for a 2 BR unit for a group where you'd need 2 regular rooms. Anything beyond that simply becomes personal preference and choice.

 

[Spectro is #1]

For us, our only regret was not doing it sooner. We are dinks and as I will be turning 40 in less than 2 weeks we will not be having children. Wow it seems like yesterday we were in your shoes. Where did the time go?

We made our first trip in 93. I had never been and it was a dream come true for me. I think that is why I am so obsessed. We would stay in the mods (value was not available) and were able to go every other year. Price paid, $99.00 to just over $100 a night. We went on our first cruise in Sept. 2000. We did the DVC tour on the ship. We always wanted to do the tour at WDW but there was to much to see and do. I won't be back for another 2 years! After several months of deciding and running numbers we bought 175 points. We now go more often and stay in resorts I used to dream about staying in. I never think people who compare DVC to staying at value resorts are making a fair comparison. Beds are smaller room is smaller pool not as cool, restaurants ect. ect. It is an unfair comparison just like comparing off site accommodations to the value resorts. You can get a 2 bedroom suite just outside of WDW for the price of a value resort room. It is not a fair comparison because of location. The same could be said about on property accommodations. Staying at BCV lets you walk over to Epcot. this is not a perk at all DVC resorts but you have to admit that they offer more than just a room.

We went this year in May and met with our rep Jone and picked up 50 more points. So we are going back in another week!
We will be staying at SSR for the first time. On years we went on cruises we paid cash because the exchange is to rich for my blood.
Banking and borrowing has allowed us to take my brothers family and stay in a GV at OKW. We have brought my wife's mom and on another trip we took my wife's sister and her husband.

For the time, it is correct that you can get some great deals on rooms that include food and discounts on tickets but those days may be numbered. Why? Jim Hill Media had a great article about Disney's over inventory of hotel rooms. To cure the problem, remove rooms. 2 floors of AKL now DVC, north wing of the CR now gone to make room for a DVC tower. POP phase 2 still not done. All Star rooms converted over to suites (2 or 3 rooms now only 1 room in inventory). A new rumor is that cbr will convert some of there rooms over to pirate suits. And lets not forget the Disney Inn that became SOG a few years ago. No planed expansion by Disney other than DVC. The 4 Seasons will open on property and the western beltway expansion will bring more non Disney budget hotel rooms on property and allow WDW to get out of the discount hotel business.

You need to decide if Disney is your thing. 4 trips if 2 years! Yes DVC is for you but it may not be your time. DVC will always be around but the price will likely be higher.

Yes you can vacation at WDW for less but to vacation as often and in the same type of accommodations DVC will save you money!

One thing we do is sometimes we do both. To save on points we will sometimes take advantage of the deals and spend a night or 2 in a value or mod. For example: Last year we payed for Friday and Sat. nights at Pop so we could go another 2 or 3 nights during the week. It is all about flexibility and maximizing the points system to fit you needs and your budget.

good luck, what ever you decide.

 

[mikesmom]

If I were to pay for a similarly priced suite in a deluxe I'd be getting daily mousekeeping. I realize the DVC includes bigger square footage in many cases, yet for the price I can't get around not having cleaning service. Has this bothered anyone?

I actually prefer not having mousekeeping. We like the option of sleeping in, coming back for a nap mid-day, or even just hanging out in pajamas 'til late some mornings - we are on vacation. Just like it better not having to worry about the maid wanting in.

2) Do you find that you use your kitchen out of "obligation"? I still want to feel like I'm on vacation - I don't know that cooking regularly will do that for me. Do you find that you live in the DVC like you do at home - cooking, cleaning, etc.? In the same vein, do you miss the DDP?

Oh no, LOVE the kitchen. We like to do a nice breakfast in, keep lots of fruit, cheese, snacks, ice cream and wine around. Even when we used to use hotel rooms we'd drag a cooler in to keep wine, cheese and milk for coffee. We've traveled often with 2 teen boys. Believe me , ever do that and the kitchen WILL save you money on food!

Have you ever regretted your decision when you realize that non-DVC members have a villa next door or what have you because it was available? Did you feel foolish then? (I know, this is a subjective question - it's something I'm wondering about myself, however....)

Well, most times there is no non DVC member next door because we are addicted to the Boardwalk view at BWV and that is available only to members. Seriously, at many times of the year, there are very few non-members around - holidays, December, Food & Wine Fest fills those rooms up. If there are non members in those rooms it's because a MEMBER chose to trade out to a wonderful vacation somewhere else and CRO gets the room to cover the cost of the members room elsewhere. Trading is good when you are the one choosing to do it!

Your mileage may vary, but even as a family of only three, we were getting 2 rooms or a suite-type room offsite on every vacation. Sharing a room with a teenage boy and not having any privacy for a week is NOT DH's idea of a vacation. For us, DVC paid for itself pretty fast.

 

[GreatLakes5]

Thank you 'mikesmom' for your kind but honest answers.....I"m wondering if many get berated on this board from those "asking for advice" who are obviously anti-DVC? I'm getting the impression from answers that this is the case? Honestly, we really ARE considering this - my questions are not meant to be loaded to show that DVC is a bad thing. There are just certain questions that I think I need answered from users and not sales people.

Here's the other consideration we have:

One of our two trips per year is usually camping. I'm not sure we'd want to give this up (yet). One of the DVC salespeople during the last trip implied (correctly?) that points could be used at FW....is that true? I digress....even if we could use the points it certainly would not compute in terms of financial matters On the other hand, we can see a cruise in our future.....and if it goes well, it may be the beginning of multiple cruises. Then it seems that the DVC begins to pay for itself sooner.

Understand as well that I have a housecleaner in my "regular" house every other week I may be a housecleaning wimp which is why mousekeeping DOES appeal to me. Thus, that question.

We are also a family of five with the kids growing bigger and taller rapidly & larger accommodations seem unavoidable.

One more question if you don't mind....for those with kids (or who have kids that often vacation with them)....where would you attempt to start off with your home resort? We were leaning toward WL just because of close proximity to MK (we're still very much at the character/MK age...okay, who isn't, but you know what I mean). We're already mentally eliminated SS (just personal choice). Wondering if trying to AKL would be good though we've never stayed in the lodge as is. Advice??

 

[Newcastle]

GreatLakes5, I would seriously consider BCV. WL is certainly great in terms of its proximity to Magic Kingdom but BCV is also nice because it is within walking distance to Epcot and MGM. During our trip this past May, we did not need to take any buses (we prefer the Monorail so that the kids can stay in the stroller) because we actually preferred to take the Monorail from Epcot to Magic Kingdom. I know some people say that this is a bit of a trek but I would estimate that it never took us more than 45 minutes from our villa door at BCV to the entrance to Magic Kingdom. We also enjoyed the walk through Epcot. One of the best things about BCV is the pool (SAB) which in my opinion, far exceeds the pool at WL. My youngest, who is 3, is a disaster in a pool that isn't zero entry because she doesn't want to be held, nor will she wear flotation devices. At SAB, they have a zero entry section which was great for our daughter because she could go in as far as she wanted to. She absolutely loved playing in the sand and if you read my previous post on this thread, spending time at the pool was virtually the only thing that she wanted to do during our trip. And don't forget, there's no pool hopping to BCV. Lastly, the proximity to the Boardwalk and abilty to watch the fireworks at Epcot every night were great selling points as well. Of course, some people just really value that proximity to Magic Kingdom and depending on when you travel, I'm sure that you'll have the opportunity to stay at BCV at some point in the future. Hope this helps!

 

[TenThousandVolts]

...I"m wondering if many get berated on this board from those "asking for advice" who are obviously anti-DVC? ...

I don't think so- I think the people who are weighing in on the opposition are just showing the downside- as requested in the thread title. The math can work out to show DVC as a terrible deal or the bargain of the century- depending on which formula you choose to use. I am a happy DVC owner and my opinion on the financial aspect is that it won't save me much (or any) money- but I will be getting a tremendous VALUE from the vacation dollars I spent with DVC.

...One of our two trips per year is usually camping. I'm not sure we'd want to give this up (yet). One of the DVC salespeople during the last trip implied (correctly?) that points could be used at FW....is that true? I digress....even if we could use the points it certainly would not compute in terms of financial matters On the other hand, we can see a cruise in our future.....and if it goes well, it may be the beginning of multiple cruises. Then it seems that the DVC begins to pay for itself sooner.

You can use points for FW cabins- I am not sure it would be very economical- points for a cabin in regular season for a cabin are about 32 weeknights- 58 on weekends. I am not sure if you can use points for the regular campground. This is very cheap on cash though- I think around $40 per night for a spot with cable and electric.
As for the cruise,I would not recommend buying points with intention of using them for cruising. It is a very expensive exchange. I think you would be better off paying cash. I think using the points for DCL would actually make your break even point come later, not sooner.

...We are also a family of five with the kids growing bigger and taller rapidly & larger accommodations seem unavoidable.

This was the clincher for us- we usually stayed in vals or mods but with 3 kids we want a bigger space. The minute our baby turned 3 and became a real person in the eyes of WDW- we bought in. Suddenly we need 2 rooms - so now even at the values we are in around $200 per night. (Remember when doing financial comparisons add tax -and resort fees if applicable- to cash ressies, but not to DVC rooms)

As for home resort: I won't give any advice as to which resort is the right one- it doesn't matter much what anyone thinks but you. If you love VWL then that sounds like a smart choice.

 

[Liljam]

Understand as well that I have a housecleaner in my "regular" house every other week I may be a housecleaning wimp which is why mousekeeping DOES appeal to me. Thus, that question.

We are also a family of five with the kids growing bigger and taller rapidly & larger accommodations seem unavoidable.

I feel ya completely! I have a cleaner come weekly and I wouldn't have it any other way! She even does my laundry. With that said, when we do a weekly trip, I am expecting to pay the extra price to have a full cleaning done mid week just for my own well being. It's a zen thing ! I even hire someone to stay at my house when I vacation to care for my beloved pups. They have to abide by many rules and make sure to keep my pups' bedroom (yes they are spoiled) in tip top shape so that the pups don't eat something (like a remote!)

As for larger accommodations - I totally agree that as a family grows, more room is a must. I have a large family and even larger since I got married. We love to have family gatherings and vacations, and I find it a treat to be able to have my entire family with us on our vacations. It will be much easier for us to spend time in a villa than in 4 or 5 rooms in other resort hotels.

Also, I don't look at the full kitchens as a downfall. I'm thankful we'll be ordering groceries. I'm a late night snacker and it was not fun to wake up in the middle of the night and find that I was out of soda and water and had to drink tap water ! Then I'd have to hope the my husband didn't eat the last seasonal sugar cookie ! Having that kitchen available will actually save us money and trips to the refill stations in between breaks and rests at our room.

 

[cgcruz]

I think some people just need to relax. No one is picking on anybody. We are just discussing the pros and cons of DVC. Heck, even weighing in all the options, i'm still considering buying DVC and financing it for 5 years. The fact of the matter is that there is no way to know where you'll be in life 5, 10, or 40 years from now. DVC, or any timeshare, is really a risky venture.

 

[JadeDarkstar]

i have to say i am not rich at all. I just crunched the numbers i get 600 from ssi becouse im disabeled, my fionce makes 800 (will make more just started) and i get 200 child suport. I have figuerd all my bills paid (including this in it) and figuerd i have 600-800 left a month for things might come up. we do not do much of anything excpet yearly trip and movies.. we dont do excpincve food or clothing. I shop at walmart. But i have decied with all the money i will shell out in the next 5 years for disney alaska hawwi, and cruises..well this makes since.

If you think you will use this for your husbend and you and in futre take your kids id say its worth it. moneys tight every where but going some place every year or 6months is needed to stay sain in this world.

I am going to join in september I hope you will to but will not try to convince you only do it if it fills right for you

fyi. my son at 3month loved disney and has every year or year in half since.
(also didnt finsh reading from page 1 and dont want to offend any one sorry if i did

 

[boomhauer]

The fact of the matter is that there is no way to know where you'll be in life 5, 10, or 40 years from now. DVC, or any timeshare, is really a risky venture.

This is just it. I mean, I would say chances are near 100% we'll be going to Disney at least once a year for the next 20 years or so, but I like to know that if something unforseen happens, I'm not obligated to spend money I might not have.

And as I said earlier, if you crunch the numbers and you're happy with Value Resorts or even hunting down discounts for moderates, then DVC makes no financial sense.

 

[gkrykewy]

but I like to know that if something unforseen happens, I'm not obligated to spend money I might not have.

But if you can rent out points annually for more than twice your annual dues and even recoup all or most of your buy-in cost through resale, where's the risk?

The only risk I see is a national economic or political catastrophe on the order of 9/11 or gas shocks, which would hit resale values and point rental values hard for awhile.

 

[boomhauer]

But if you can rent out points annually for more than twice your annual dues and even recoup all or most of your buy-in cost through resale, where's the risk?

True. But it's alot more work and worry than need be.

No doubt, if you compare apples to apples and prefer to stay in a DVC resort studio or above, it makes sense. If you're content with values or moderates, it doesn't make sense.

Vacations shouldn't be stressfull. I'm not wealthy enough (unfortunately) to buy into DVC without any worries at all.

 

[JadeDarkstar]

i always stay value stuff and im a littel tierd of it and i think that dvc haveing trips all over the world just works and being abel stay in nice hotels ya that works better

 

[cgcruz]

But if you can rent out points annually for more than twice your annual dues and even recoup all or most of your buy-in cost through resale, where's the risk?

The only risk I see is a national economic or political catastrophe on the order of 9/11 or gas shocks, which would hit resale values and point rental values hard for awhile.

Technically, yes, you can rent out your points. Have you seen the Rent boards on Disboards alone??? There are a lot of people trying to rent out their points. There are no assurances you'll be able to rent out your points in part of in full to anyone.

I haven't done the math, but it appears that renting points from a member for a stay at DVC might be a better deal than buying DVC. It seems like with the average price per point around $10 you can have a great DVC stay without the big bite out of your wallet. I've actually rented points last year to stay at the Boardwalk Villas. Although now with so many restrictions ( like a renter not being able to verify the reservation with DVC) its a very risky move. If you have someone you really trust though, its a great way to enjoy DVC.

 

[JadeDarkstar]

well i got say I dont own a house, my wedding is gona be relly cheap becouse id rather have this (as my honny moon then have a 10k wedding)
I do not think it relly matters if we have car house and all these things. I have always spent my money on trips and would rather just join and have it. I know id use more then 16k in the next 5 to 10 years on vacations and rembering it isnt just disney (like it has alaska and hotels all over the world, some right up the street from me. I think if you want it jump on it. it seems to be going up. i will join in september and hope to meet alot of you though out the years.

 

[GreatLakes5]

well i got say I dont own a house, my wedding is gona be relly cheap becouse id rather have this (as my honny moon then have a 10k wedding)
I do not think it relly matters if we have car house and all these things. I have always spent my money on trips and would rather just join and have it. I know id use more then 16k in the next 5 to 10 years on vacations and rembering it isnt just disney (like it has alaska and hotels all over the world, some right up the street from me. I think if you want it jump on it. it seems to be going up. i will join in september and hope to meet alot of you though out the years.

(remember I"m an accountant so pardon my conservative nature)...but at least CONSIDER trying to buy a house that will build equity for you in the future before buying DVC....or any timeshare for that manner! Really! We are looking at DVC but I do think you should have your financial house "in order" when considering such a thing.
(okay, off the accountant soap box...please no flame throwers!)

 

[JadeDarkstar]

lol no flame thoughters but we arent moveing for 5 years at least. and actely my fionces parents want to just get there triler and leave this house to us. we all live together.. i pay rent.. and for my own food and stuff. I was eather gona buy land this year (2500 down and 250 a month) or this (1600 down and 227 month) pluse the lady just convinced me the trip im taking in november to do it with points and makes 800 cheaper then the trip i had planed.. its much better deal when i look at it like that (and i live in phx az witch i will never buy a house in.

When if we move it will be up north the heats killing me I cant go out side and play with my son becouse of how sick i get. I want to move but we cant yet. once my fionce gets to sallery we will move to another city (up north) and then be making good money for a house. (i know we cant have house for five years and ive acepted it. but I will never stop taking my summer money from my dads death (21 years air force) and spending it at disney..so it makes since to invest in this.)

Im not yelling or arguing i do apreciate your input but ive added everything together and figuerd this is better then the land i was thinking of getting.
(it wouldnt have worked for anything we wanted it for , and woulda been more excpicve and down payment was way to much.) Ty forthe input agine. I do hope I can make friends here

 

[gkrykewy]

(remember I"m an accountant so pardon my conservative nature)...but at least CONSIDER trying to buy a house that will build equity for you in the future before buying DVC....or any timeshare for that manner! Really! We are looking at DVC but I do think you should have your financial house "in order" when considering such a thing.
(okay, off the accountant soap box...please no flame throwers!)

Depending on where one is located in the country, one could lose more money over the next few years buying a house NOW than a DVC membership would cost.

 

[Deb & Bill]

Don't buy into Disney for trading out. It's a rather expensive use of your points. Use DVC points to stay at DVC resorts for the best value. We bought in about 10 years ago and paid about $50 a point for our first 175 points. I think we spent less than $70 a points for the rest of them. As nice as the AKV are, I don't think I would buy in now with the high price of points.

If you are seriously looking at trading out to Hawaii or Alaska or Europe, there are much cheaper ways of doing it than through DVC. You'll see lots of posts by Dean on the DVC Boards and he knows timeshares. That's his advice about trading, too.

 

[BCVBRUCE]

As nice as the AKV are, I don't think I would buy in now with the high price of points.

You would not buy AKV period? -OR- Are you referring to not buying AKV for trading out purposes?

If someone wants to get into AKV how would one do so without paying such a high price? Do prices ever go down? I am curious about this?